Deng to GS PG.13 / PG.43 Bulls Say Otherwise

[blumeany]

Guys I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but what can we really get for Deng?

I just believe how we value Deng collectively is different than what people value him.

In other words.... Coaches love Deng while GMs like Deng. I feel like we as a fanbase are the coach while other fans are the GMs. I'm trying to explain this right so some won't think I'm dismissing Deng.

Coaches love Deng because he allows stars to be stars and he does everything that the coach ask for
While............
GMs like Deng but don't love him because he's going to cost a lot but won't be a gamebreaking type player

I hear ya. I see people calling Deng an 'All-Star'. Yes, that's *technically* true, but you have to realize that he basically got that nod because the Bulls as a team were doing very well and it didn't make sense that only one guy from the Bulls was on the All-Star team. It's like calling BJ Armstrong and 'All Star' when we know clearly that the only All-Stars on those teams were really Michael and Scottie. (Honorable mention to Grant, Rodman, Kukoc).

Deng is a really solid player, solid defender, great 'team' guy, will not make a ton of bonehead plays. He's the perfect player to play alongside younger/less stable talent and sort of show them the way. He's actually sort of more valuable for other teams than for the Bulls - because they already have stable leaders on this team and an established system.

[singal3]

IMO their is a big dropoff in talent from #5 to #7 (Davis, Beal, Robinson, MKG, Barnes).

[thedarkstark]

Ric Bucher on ESPN 1000 right now. Can anyone provide updates to those of us that can't listen?

I will try.

He says as far as he knows, there are no deals on the table for Deng. Says that Tyreke for Deng had no truth behind it.

Says (in his opinion) Bulls desperately need athleticsm, and thinks they should go after Andre Drummond. He thinks the Bulls should "roll the dice" on an athletic guy that they can pair next to Rose for the next 10+ years.

He said the Bulls are handcuffed by large contracts, and the only way to add athelticsm and a superstar is by trading into the draft and taking a gamble.

[AAU Teammate]

GMs dont want a young All-star on a two year contract? 6'9" who can shoot the three and defend at an elite level?

[dice]

I see people calling Deng an 'All-Star'. Yes, that's *technically* true, but you have to realize that he basically got that nod because the Bulls as a team were doing very well and it didn't make sense that only one guy from the Bulls was on the All-Star team

you got it. if this deal goes down partial credit goes to allstar/all-defensive team voters

[Shill]

Ric Bucher:

--Rose’s injury gives the Bulls a chance to hit the reset button (he’s not convinced the Bulls as constituted can beat the Heat)
--Next year is a wash
--trading Deng is a good move depending on who they can get in the lottery, and fit with Rose long-term
--says no legitimacy to the rumored Tyreke Evans deal
--He thinks Drummond is intriguing
--Says you need incredible athleticism to win a title
--In terms of athleticism, Rose is a “fish out of water” on the Bulls
--Bulls maximized the talent they have
--Says Dwight Howard is currently not open to Chicago
--Thibs will get his extension

[blumeany]

Hogwash. This deal, if done, confirms that next year is a nothing year. Just a year of Rose's career to flush. Then hope that actual quality is added the following year, and that the lottery pick is a rapid-developing prodigy or, oops, you've burned two of Rose's precious years.

Next year was flushed the minute Rose tore his ACL.

DING DING DING!

[dice]

nobody's arguing that it helps avoid the tax this year. the benefit is the following year financially. and it probably helps us personnel-wise THIS year

But avoiding the tax this year is what they're trying to do...

The Kings deals we were discussing were much more respectable.

the kings deal doesn't help much when it comes to avoid the tax this year either

[Shill]

GMs dont want a young All-star on a two year contract? 6'9" who can shoot the three and defend at an elite level?

I don't know. Do they?

Is there evidence to suggest there's a seller's market for Deng?

[bad knees]

The number 7 pick, no matter who it is (and I happen to think Ross is the best of the lot after Beal and Barnes), will not be better than Luol Deng for at least 3-4 years. And that's assuming best case scenario. The worst case scenario is a bust, of course. And that has happened with the 7th pick a lot more often than it becoming an All-Star.

The solution is to admit that Boozer was a mistake. Amnesty him now. Or trade him for expiring scraps, like Maggette. I think that people are overstating the difficulty of trading Boozer. The new CBA requires teams to spend 90 % of the cap at a minimum. Boozer would be a nice piece for a bad team that is looking for decent ways to make the minimum payroll. He will help you win regular season games. It's just that he will not help you win a championship, which is what the Bulls are after.

[Jordan45822]

K.C Johnson ‏@KCJHoop
Not sure why Deng to Golden State rumors remain. GS over cap, which would defeat purpose of trading into cap space and not taking back $.

[PMONSTER]

GMs dont want a young All-star on a two year contract? 6'9" who can shoot the three and defend at an elite level?

(I won't comment on the all-star thing, those who know better are shaking their head)

This is what I'm talking about. WE as fans think Deng is a elite defender who can shoot the three but other fans will say "Elite Defender? Since when?" or "He plays with D-Rose and can't average more points than that?"

How we look at Deng is not how others see Deng.... wait till they see how much they are going to have to pay Deng for his "All-Star" appearance.

[dice]

The number 7 pick, no matter who it is (and I happen to think Ross is the best of the lot after Beal and Barnes), will not be better than Luol Deng for at least 3-4 years

he'll certainly be a hell of a lot cheaper

[cubd8]

A couple things here....

Are people not breaking the deal down? Is there too many pieces involved for people to process this? The reason I ask is I've seen the same people who've said do Calderon and 8th or Garcia and 5th for Deng but now saying this deal is horrible. When you break this deal down it's Harris and 7th for Deng.

The other part to the deal is Wright, 35 and 52 for a protected 1st next year and our 29. Is Wright not good enough to you guys? You have to give to get. You can break this down other ways too like Harris, #7 and 35 for Deng and Wright and 52 for 29 and future 1st.

Also for all the let's take the Kings deal, FYI Taj Gibson and maybe even the Bobcats pick needs to go in the deal and that's taking Salmons from the Kings stance. How does that deal look now?

You have to give to get and people. From all the stuff I've heard this is actually not a bad deal at all.

Are the Bulls still talking with Sacramento? What's the latest on Tyreke Evans? My guess is that he's not coming to Chicago if reducing salary is the primary motivator in moving Deng?

[Shill]

The number 7 pick, no matter who it is (and I happen to think Ross is the best of the lot after Beal and Barnes), will not be better than Luol Deng for at least 3-4 years. And that's assuming best case scenario. The worst case scenario is a bust, of course. And that has happened with the 7th pick a lot more often than it becoming an All-Star.

The solution is to admit that Boozer was a mistake. Amnesty him now. Or trade him for expiring scraps, like Maggette. I think that people are overstating the difficulty of trading Boozer. The new CBA requires teams to spend 90 % of the cap at a minimum. Boozer would be a nice piece for a bad team that is looking for decent ways to make the minimum payroll. He will help you win regular season games. It's just that he will not help you win a championship, which is what the Bulls are after.

I don't have a problem with this. This isn't really our window to win a title.

In 4 years, Rose will be entering his prime.

[Mech Engineer]

Guys I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but what can we really get for Deng?

I just believe how we value Deng collectively is different than what people value him.

In other words.... Coaches love Deng while GMs like Deng. I feel like we as a fanbase are the coach while other fans are the GMs. I'm trying to explain this right so some won't think I'm dismissing Deng.

Coaches love Deng because he allows stars to be stars and he does everything that the coach ask for
While............
GMs like Deng but don't love him because he's going to cost a lot but won't be a gamebreaking type player

I hear ya. I see people calling Deng an 'All-Star'. Yes, that's *technically* true, but you have to realize that he basically got that nod because the Bulls as a team were doing very well and it didn't make sense that only one guy from the Bulls was on the All-Star team. It's like calling BJ Armstrong and 'All Star' when we know clearly that the only All-Stars on those teams were really Michael and Scottie. (Honorable mention to Grant, Rodman, Kukoc).

Deng is a really solid player, solid defender, great 'team' guy, will not make a ton of bonehead plays. He's the perfect player to play alongside younger/less stable talent and sort of show them the way. He's actually sort of more valuable for other teams than for the Bulls - because they already have stable leaders on this team and an established system.

There is a difference in LeBron/Durant levels and the next tier. Deng is not in the top level. But, if you consider the overall game/age ...isn't he more valuable to many teams than the other same tier guys like Gay(bigger contract) and Igoudala(bad shooter and thus needs the ball). He just doesn't fit on the Bulls. The point is trading for a pick sounds interesting and great...but it is huge gamble. I am not saying they shouldn't trade Deng. He is the best candidate to trade because Boozer will get you get a bunch of gym bags. But, his value is pretty high and they should get a decent player back along with a pick and Wright a decent player? If the pick turns out to be a bust...the Bulls are screwed and will be relying on Ronnie Brewer, Jimmy Butler types for the next 4/5 years at the SF position

[Red Larrivee]

the kings deal doesn't help much when it comes to avoid the tax this year either

I know because SAC is insisting on Salmons or someone else being involved, but they at least have the potential to save the Bulls $$$ now. GS doesn't.

I don't think either deal gets done, but the GS deal isn't good. As much as I'd salivate over getting Jeremy Lamb (but hell even then who knows if the Bulls even like him), the other pieces of the deal throw it off track.

[Red Larrivee]

K.C Johnson ‏@KCJHoop
Not sure why Deng to Golden State rumors remain. GS over cap, which would defeat purpose of trading into cap space and not taking back $.

Kaboom.

[bojangler]

that trade makes 1000% better but it doesn't make sense for GS

[barn34]

yeah, this deal makes too much sense not to happen, IMO.

next year is a holding pattern year, at best. rose will be out for over half of it...and the half he returns for he won't be 100% yet, at all. that won't happen until the next year, so that means next season is a toss your hands up in the air and see what we can accomplish with zero expectations. in the mean time, that's deng getting one year older. boozer getting one year older. rip getting one year older. and one more year gone on taj's and jimmy's valuable rookie contracts. also, korver, brewer, and cj are all likely gone anyways and they need to be replaced or resigned, probably as early as right now this summer.

conversely, you can save a ton of money by dealing deng now and replacing him with some decent pieces. dorrell wright is actually a pretty decent basketball player and a legit starting SF in this league. he's also still pretty young and he's got legit range and shoots a good percentage from deep to boot. devin harris is also a very good player and would be an upgrade over cj, for sure. he actually was an all-star while in new jersey and he is a much more attractive option as the starter while rose rehabs than some of the other options out there. plus, he's still reasonably young and would be a really good fit here even long term as rose's backup after this season. that's really his future role in this league, anyways, i feel. now, the focal point of this deal is the #7 pick which we would, probably use on jeremy lamb. that's the kicker. he's got potential to be a legit stud on both ends of the floor and being able to be the quiet #2 to derrick's on court #1 and joakim's locker room #1 is perfect for him. less pressure and he can play his game and just improve at his own pace. he gets thrown into the fire a bit early on, but there are zero expectations because rose is out anyways. he can learn as he goes and that'll pay off huge down the line. plus, rip would be an amazing veteran mentor for lamb as a rookie. i actually can only think that maybe ray allen would be a better veteran mentor for lamb based on his game....ironically, both are former UCONN greats. if we keep our heads above water, then who knows what could happen come playoff time with rose coming back, presumably. if we can't stay afloat, then we're a lotto team with a chance to land yet another great piece to pair with a healthy rose moving forward (as long as the pick we give up to utah is lotto protected). either way that's a win/win/win. plus, you've got one year less on boozer's crap deal and can possibly amnesty him next summer and make a run at another good piece...or just wait another year and throw the kitchen sink at kevin love when boozer is legit off the books. then you also potentially have mirotic coming over to boot, which could be awesome.

guys, thinking short sighted in terms of how this directly affect next year is pointless. next year is already wasted. might as well put yourselves in a much better situation coming out of next year than just trying to tread water for the sake of treading water. that would be disastrous in the long term for the franchise and derrick's career arc.