2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7

[TheHrvReport]

Not me. In this NBA you can't be a one way defensive player. You can get away as a one way offensive player if you put up big numbers but not as a defensive player.

I don't buy Bamba's offense at all. Think he is a long term project.

I'd take Carter over him.

Yeah I'm surprised about people wanting Rudy Gobert in the lottery lol. I think dude is going to be good on D but as a big man if you're not on some Embiid stuff as a big man your kinda lost right now unless you're Shaq dominant and I don't see that with Bamba. If we draft him I'll hope he does great of course as with anybody else we draft.

Double post

[Chi town]

A few thoughts on Trae Young

I don't believe in the Steph Curry comps. But I really do like the Steve Nash comps. He plays at a similar pace like Steve (with similar usage as well). Steph Curry's amazing ability to play off the ball isn't taken in account a lot of the time. Trae is a bit of a floater without the ball, never making cuts and never moving out of his spacing zones. Curry is incredibly active off the ball, weaving through screens, popping out on the weakside, or getting layups on give and goes.

Trae plays at his own pace, and has a boom/bust mentality when passing or shooting. Nash was kind of similar at the height of his run.

As for the defense. I think defense at the PG position is very overrated. The NBA is all about ball screens and using the Point Guard off of the pick/roll. As long as Trae doesn't allow guys to completely blow by him on the ball, or back cut him off the ball, he'll be fine for today's game. There will be times where bigger wings will do a pick/roll to get isolation on him (similar to what the Bulls did with Jimmy and IT during the Boston matchups), but he'll be fine if he puts on a little more weight and just competes.

I think he's a very boom or bust type of prospect and would benefit from a second ball handler (at the wing) and motion system that would work to get him open looks. To me, the Bulls are a pretty good fit because I think Dunn is a good compliment, and the Bulls run a lot of actions off the ball for shots. And having a creative point guard that changes the pull of the floor will help Lauri get more looks. But I have no idea what that would mean for LaVine.

Ultimately, I wouldn't hate the pick, but I think there are guys I like better than Young.

But he doesn't compete. I also think that PG defense is one of the most important in the league. Whether that be by the PG on the PG or in the PnR switch.

I like the Nash comp but I think he will be abused on defense. In the end I think his 3 ball, passing, and FTs will make him efficient enough to make up for it but I am fully expecting him to be near league worst defenders and negatively impact his team due to his D.

I do agree that he could fit next to Dunn and he would help Lauri alot IMO.

PG defense is no where near the importance of Wing defense and Big defense.

Granted it helps to have a good defender at PG to slow down the point of attack with opposing PGs, ultimately it is more important to protect the rim and stop the incredible isolation wings in this league (LeBron, Harden, KD).

Take a look at the elite PGs in this league. Very few of them are plus individual defenders.

Non-plus defenders - Lillard, Irving, Curry, Westbrook, and Kemba

Plus defenders - CP3

Average defenders - Lowry

Lillard has improved drastically. Russ is not a good defender? Curry has become a solid team defender as has Irving and Kemba. They aren't lock down but they def are not Trae Young turnstyle.

CP3 is the only plus PG defender in the league? What about Dunn and Elf? Bledsoe? Lonzo def is.

Wing defense is important but not so much in ISO. No one can defend Harden Lebron or KD. ISO is becoming so rare much like post offense with a big... most ISO is just PnR.

I'd argue that PnR defense is now jsut as important as rim protection. Ability to switch for a big onto a small and contain and contest is important. That's why I think JJJ will be so good.

[Dresden]

I don't recall Tyrus Thomas lateral quickness ever being much of an issue.

Ultimately Tyrus Thomas was a highly talented player. Who checked a lot of the same boxes as Bagley and JJJ.

He ultimately failed due in large part to intangibles.

I think it had more to do with his inability to find a way to score efficiently in the nba. You can't get by on just dunks in the nba.

CC: Marvin Bagley and Mo Bamba

Bagley has a lot of moves inside. He dunks after a lot of them, but he's very resourceful in getting around guys.

[Chi town]

Yeah I'm surprised about people wanting Rudy Gobert in the lottery lol. I think dude is going to be good on D but as a big man if you're not on some Embiid stuff as a big man your kinda lost right now unless you're Shaq dominant and I don't see that with Bamba. If we draft him I'll hope he does great of course as with anybody else we draft.

Double post

Gobert's body and offense were way ahead of Bamba at the same age.

Bamba has 2-3 seasons of work to get to Gobert's level IMO. His base are twigs. He will get bullied in the post and his length won't be able to do anyting about it.

[Chi town]

A few thoughts on Trae Young

I don't believe in the Steph Curry comps. But I really do like the Steve Nash comps. He plays at a similar pace like Steve (with similar usage as well). Steph Curry's amazing ability to play off the ball isn't taken in account a lot of the time. Trae is a bit of a floater without the ball, never making cuts and never moving out of his spacing zones. Curry is incredibly active off the ball, weaving through screens, popping out on the weakside, or getting layups on give and goes.

Trae plays at his own pace, and has a boom/bust mentality when passing or shooting. Nash was kind of similar at the height of his run.

As for the defense. I think defense at the PG position is very overrated. The NBA is all about ball screens and using the Point Guard off of the pick/roll. As long as Trae doesn't allow guys to completely blow by him on the ball, or back cut him off the ball, he'll be fine for today's game. There will be times where bigger wings will do a pick/roll to get isolation on him (similar to what the Bulls did with Jimmy and IT during the Boston matchups), but he'll be fine if he puts on a little more weight and just competes.

I think he's a very boom or bust type of prospect and would benefit from a second ball handler (at the wing) and motion system that would work to get him open looks. To me, the Bulls are a pretty good fit because I think Dunn is a good compliment, and the Bulls run a lot of actions off the ball for shots. And having a creative point guard that changes the pull of the floor will help Lauri get more looks. But I have no idea what that would mean for LaVine.

Ultimately, I wouldn't hate the pick, but I think there are guys I like better than Young.

But he doesn't compete. I also think that PG defense is one of the most important in the league. Whether that be by the PG on the PG or in the PnR switch.

I like the Nash comp but I think he will be abused on defense. In the end I think his 3 ball, passing, and FTs will make him efficient enough to make up for it but I am fully expecting him to be near league worst defenders and negatively impact his team due to his D.

I do agree that he could fit next to Dunn and he would help Lauri alot IMO.

I don't think you can call PG defense important when you look at the team success of Irving, Curry, Lillard, IT, Harden, Tony Parker, etc.

It's not meaningless, but it doesn't look that important. Certainly pales in comparison to the importance of PG offense.

Trae Young is worse than Harden. He is generationally awful at D. He could be that good on offense though too.

[Chi town]

A few thoughts on Trae Young

I don't believe in the Steph Curry comps. But I really do like the Steve Nash comps. He plays at a similar pace like Steve (with similar usage as well). Steph Curry's amazing ability to play off the ball isn't taken in account a lot of the time. Trae is a bit of a floater without the ball, never making cuts and never moving out of his spacing zones. Curry is incredibly active off the ball, weaving through screens, popping out on the weakside, or getting layups on give and goes.

Trae plays at his own pace, and has a boom/bust mentality when passing or shooting. Nash was kind of similar at the height of his run.

As for the defense. I think defense at the PG position is very overrated. The NBA is all about ball screens and using the Point Guard off of the pick/roll. As long as Trae doesn't allow guys to completely blow by him on the ball, or back cut him off the ball, he'll be fine for today's game. There will be times where bigger wings will do a pick/roll to get isolation on him (similar to what the Bulls did with Jimmy and IT during the Boston matchups), but he'll be fine if he puts on a little more weight and just competes.

I think he's a very boom or bust type of prospect and would benefit from a second ball handler (at the wing) and motion system that would work to get him open looks. To me, the Bulls are a pretty good fit because I think Dunn is a good compliment, and the Bulls run a lot of actions off the ball for shots. And having a creative point guard that changes the pull of the floor will help Lauri get more looks. But I have no idea what that would mean for LaVine.

Ultimately, I wouldn't hate the pick, but I think there are guys I like better than Young.

But he doesn't compete. I also think that PG defense is one of the most important in the league. Whether that be by the PG on the PG or in the PnR switch.

I like the Nash comp but I think he will be abused on defense. In the end I think his 3 ball, passing, and FTs will make him efficient enough to make up for it but I am fully expecting him to be near league worst defenders and negatively impact his team due to his D.

I do agree that he could fit next to Dunn and he would help Lauri alot IMO.

If we draft Trae and he pans out, I’ll be ready to flush Dunn like a dead goldfish. I don’t think they can share the court.

IT was pretty successful next to Smart. I think Dunn fits better than Lavine for sure.

[Red Larrivee]

Mo Bamba will be a Chicago Bull

I wouldn't be upset with this. Bamba is a unique talent with rare length. He'll have to get stronger and develop more offensively, but he could potentially be dominant defensively. Between him and Markkanen, I feel like you have everything you could possibly want in a young frontcourt tandem.

Not me. In this NBA you can't be a one way defensive player. You can get away as a one way offensive player if you put up big numbers but not as a defensive player.

I don't buy Bamba's offense at all. Think he is a long term project.

I'd take Carter over him.

He's a one-way player today, but he could be a two-way player by the end of his rookie deal. His offensive skillset is raw, but he's shown some flashes of perimeter shooting and low-post offense. And of course, if you throw it up anywhere near the rim, he's usually coming down with it.

[thewraith]

Not me. In this NBA you can't be a one way defensive player. You can get away as a one way offensive player if you put up big numbers but not as a defensive player.

I don't buy Bamba's offense at all. Think he is a long term project.

I'd take Carter over him.

Yeah I'm surprised about people wanting Rudy Gobert in the lottery lol. I think dude is going to be good on D but as a big man if you're not on some Embiid stuff as a big man your kinda lost right now unless you're Shaq dominant and I don't see that with Bamba. If we draft him I'll hope he does great of course as with anybody else we draft.

Gobert was top 18 in PER and top 15 in BPM last year...Bamba has the same defensive potential with more range (his shot mechanics are nice too). I'm definitely taking that player top 6-7. These types of players are not flashy but a lot of what they do and how they benefit teams doesn't show up in the box score. Having an elite defensive big man would do wonders for our team IMO.

How do you think it would do wonders? I can see how Young if can be half of what Curry is can help our team. I don't see it with Bamba if he doesn't get better on O. I mean even with Rudy Mitchell is probably their best player that's why right now unless you're a special type center I'm not taking them early. I could be wrong but hey I'm not a scout so just add it to my tab if I am lol. Like I said we draft Bamba flip it hope he works out but I don't see it for what we do currently. I rather have a Draymond Green type center that's actually taller though. If that's Bamba ok I'm all for it but I don't see it and if we get him hope I'm wrong.

[WindyCityBorn]

It's dead clear the Bulls are losing because Dunn, LaVine and Markkanen are not playing. And the NBA is dictating what the Bulls can and can't do. Otherwise, Lopez and Holiday would be playing zero minutes. You have no point.

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Nah dude just admit you were wromg. You said they would not let them play token minutes and you faceplanted that prediction. You said they would not let us play garbage lineups to close and you were wrong about that too. I'm not gonna let you walk away from this after you talked so righteously like you knew exactly what would happen and were WRONG. Bulls are doing exactly what they want minus some token PT for Holiday.

Also have you even been paying attention to games? LaVine has been God awful, Markkanen not much better and Dunn OK, but inconsistent. Those three have been a major disappointment as a core post all-star break.

Lauri is a major disappointment to you? What exactly did you expect from a 20 yr old? He's like 3rd in rookie scoring, and probably the 2nd or 3rd best rookie in his class. You must have pretty high expectations if that's a "major disappointment".

I meant as a trio they have been disappointing, not individually. Lauri had a good rookie season.

[Chi town]

I wouldn't be upset with this. Bamba is a unique talent with rare length. He'll have to get stronger and develop more offensively, but he could potentially be dominant defensively. Between him and Markkanen, I feel like you have everything you could possibly want in a young frontcourt tandem.

Not me. In this NBA you can't be a one way defensive player. You can get away as a one way offensive player if you put up big numbers but not as a defensive player.

I don't buy Bamba's offense at all. Think he is a long term project.

I'd take Carter over him.

He's a one-way player today, but he could be a two-way player by the end of his rookie deal. His offensive skillset is raw, but he's shown some flashes of perimeter shooting and low-post offense. And of course, if you throw it up anywhere near the rim, he's usually coming down with it.

His lob offense if effective... just don't know if Dunn would be good at tossing the lobs.

Bamba's comp for me is Deandre Jordan due to his lob offense. If Bamba could do that and make FT's he would be pretty effective. Issue is its doing to take him 3 seasons to add the bulk necessary to box out and use his length for boards. His shotblocking should translate right away though.

[Axolotl]

Trae Young is worse than Harden. He is generationally awful at D. He could be that good on offense though too.

Can't be worse than Harden at his worst, which worse than a flower pot. With a flower pot, every now and then someone will at least stumble on it. Only way to achieve worse than Harden's worst would be to score in the own team's basket.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

But he doesn't compete. I also think that PG defense is one of the most important in the league. Whether that be by the PG on the PG or in the PnR switch.

I like the Nash comp but I think he will be abused on defense. In the end I think his 3 ball, passing, and FTs will make him efficient enough to make up for it but I am fully expecting him to be near league worst defenders and negatively impact his team due to his D.

I do agree that he could fit next to Dunn and he would help Lauri alot IMO.

If we draft Trae and he pans out, I’ll be ready to flush Dunn like a dead goldfish. I don’t think they can share the court.

IT was pretty successful next to Smart. I think Dunn fits better than Lavine for sure.

Boston staggered them a good deal. In fact, if you look at their best lineups in 2016-17 by +\-, you have to go down to 14th on the list to find one that includes both Smart and IT.

I’d be cool with Trae and Dunn in spurts, but I don’t think you’re maximizing either if you have them both on the roster.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Tyrus Thomas measurements: 6'8" with 7'3" wingspan, 217lbs

Jaren Jackson Jr. measurements: 6'11" with 7'4" wingspan, 240lbs (according to DraftExpress)

Jackson is a size bigger, and I think that matters. It suggests he will grow into being able to defend centers.

I also think the way we look at athleticism for bigs is a bit more refined than it was then, at least on these boards. I feel like a few years back, we looked at athleticism more in terms of running and jumping ability and probably didn't consider lateral quickness as much as we might have, especially for big men. Tyrus clearly was more of a jumper than Jackson is, but I don't think he was nearly has quick of foot in a way that translates to playing either man or help defense. Plus, Jackson was a known commodity coming out of high school who has been scouted extensively for a while. Tyrus Thomas came out of nowhere to become a high lottery pick based on his incredible athleticism (again, mostly vertical) and his great play in his tournament run, but we didn't have as much data and experience with him.

I don't recall Tyrus Thomas lateral quickness ever being much of an issue.

Ultimately Tyrus Thomas was a highly talented player. Who checked a lot of the same boxes as Bagley and JJJ.

He ultimately failed due in large part to intangibles.

I think it had more to do with his inability to find a way to score efficiently in the nba. You can't get by on just dunks in the nba.

The dunk is the most efficient way to score.

[WindyCityBorn]

I don't recall Tyrus Thomas lateral quickness ever being much of an issue.

Ultimately Tyrus Thomas was a highly talented player. Who checked a lot of the same boxes as Bagley and JJJ.

He ultimately failed due in large part to intangibles.

I think it had more to do with his inability to find a way to score efficiently in the nba. You can't get by on just dunks in the nba.

CC: Marvin Bagley and Mo Bamba

Bagley doesn't just dunk.

[WindyCityBorn]

And by the way, I'd probably take Shai or Trae, in part because Shai will be a much better defender. And I think he'll be a better all around player. But he doesn't have the star potential of Trae.

I think SGA has even more star potential. And he's already a two way player. He's the top PG on my board. Has been for a while. I would be THRILLED if we came out of the draft with SGA and Carter.

I would not be thrilled.

[_txchilibowl_]

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander = Frank Ntilikina

[Leslie Forman]

He's a one-way player today, but he could be a two-way player by the end of his rookie deal. His offensive skillset is raw, but he's shown some flashes of perimeter shooting and low-post offense. And of course, if you throw it up anywhere near the rim, he's usually coming down with it.

So Trae Young is just never gonna make improvements to his game and body, but slow, no explosion, can't score Mo Bamba is gonna go from offensive liability to two-way player? Please.

[sh0ck]

But he doesn't compete. I also think that PG defense is one of the most important in the league. Whether that be by the PG on the PG or in the PnR switch.

I like the Nash comp but I think he will be abused on defense. In the end I think his 3 ball, passing, and FTs will make him efficient enough to make up for it but I am fully expecting him to be near league worst defenders and negatively impact his team due to his D.

I do agree that he could fit next to Dunn and he would help Lauri alot IMO.

PG defense is no where near the importance of Wing defense and Big defense.

Granted it helps to have a good defender at PG to slow down the point of attack with opposing PGs, ultimately it is more important to protect the rim and stop the incredible isolation wings in this league (LeBron, Harden, KD).

Take a look at the elite PGs in this league. Very few of them are plus individual defenders.

Non-plus defenders - Lillard, Irving, Curry, Westbrook, and Kemba

Plus defenders - CP3

Average defenders - Lowry

Lillard has improved drastically. Russ is not a good defender? Curry has become a solid team defender as has Irving and Kemba. They aren't lock down but they def are not Trae Young turnstyle.

CP3 is the only plus PG defender in the league? What about Dunn and Elf? Bledsoe? Lonzo def is.

Wing defense is important but not so much in ISO. No one can defend Harden Lebron or KD. ISO is becoming so rare much like post offense with a big... most ISO is just PnR.

I'd argue that PnR defense is now jsut as important as rim protection. Ability to switch for a big onto a small and contain and contest is important. That's why I think JJJ will be so good.

Key words in my post. "Individual defender" and "elite point guards."

CP3 is the only elite PG with plus individual defense. Dunn/Payton/Bledsloe/Lonzo are all just average PGs.

Russell Westbrook is a lazy defender and has been for at least 3 years.

If Curry/Irving/Lillard/Kemba can turn into good team defenders, I don't see why a 19 year old Trae Young can't.

[Red Larrivee]

He's a one-way player today, but he could be a two-way player by the end of his rookie deal. His offensive skillset is raw, but he's shown some flashes of perimeter shooting and low-post offense. And of course, if you throw it up anywhere near the rim, he's usually coming down with it.

So Trae Young is just never gonna make improvements to his game and body, but slow, no explosion, can't score Mo Bamba is gonna go from offensive liability to two-way player? Please.

Yeah, because that's what I said about Young.

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[RememberLu]

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned that Bamba might turn out to be Asik 2.0. I've learned my lesson about making optimistic projections about how much players will improve.