2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[TheHrvReport]

Watch on YouTube

Another evaluator basically saying Avdija will never be an all-star type player. Projected him to have Joe Ingles/Dario Saric level of success in the NBA. ie. starters but not all-stars.

The author himself agreed with my comment that Saric and Ingles aren't very good comparisons.

He also answered to my comment that the most probable outcome for Deni is 3rd option on playoff team for many years - which is clearly better than Joe (especially in the "many years" part as Ingles is already 32 and got to the current level only several years ago) and certainly not comparable with Saric

The problem is with drafting that high we should probably be looking for a player with more upside. I like Deni, he is a smart player and plays both sides of the floor. Looking into the future though, will he be at least the 4th best player from this draft? I don't think so.

[Repeat 3-peat]

We can talk about LaMelo's flaws but man his passing abilty is incredible, only going to get better in that department.

Watch on YouTube

[Chi town]

I want Okongwu or Hayes.

Both would immediately start and play a key role for us.

Haliburton takes the bronze.

What’s starting 5 with Hayes? Future lineup?

[MrSparkle]

When is the last time we had this many high-level passers and creators in the top-20 projected range?

I mentioned this yesterday as well. We've been complaining for decades about not getting playmakers. This draft is loaded with them and this team badly needs a playmaker. Why it maybe time we draft on need not just BPA.

LaMelo Ball
Killian Hayes
Deni Avdija
Tyrese Haliburton

Take your pick.

This team needs a star more than any position. So they should draft BPA or highest upside.

I would love to see the team with a playmaker (that would be my personal top priority), but not at the expense of trying to draft the best player.

But the point is that playmakers have the highest upside in the league. Even Simmons does more for the Sixers than Embiid, and that's with absolutely no perimeter shooting ability. But any playmaker who can also defend and give you 15 ppg, that's basically a franchise corner-stone.

The only guy in the top-5 who has that classic athletic star with elite scoring potential is Edwards, and he's got flags too. I suppose Obi does too, except he's at that dreaded PF position with no defense and a really late rookie age.

[Chi town]

I think Deni will be gone by 4.

Hayes will be our pick IMO

[Repeat 3-peat]

I think Deni will be gone by 4.

Hayes will be our pick IMO

Deni to Warriors is my prediction. He fits their system. I don't believe they'll work out a trade with any team for a wing they want. The value just isn't there.

It will be interesting to see what they think of Ball vs Hayes, cause Ball could be there.

[TheSuzerain]

I want Okongwu or Hayes.

Both would immediately start and play a key role for us.

Haliburton takes the bronze.

What’s starting 5 with Hayes? Future lineup?

I think we have a whole lot of question marks in our future starting line-up, and my preference would be to trade most of our young talent for future picks.

But I also think even if we don't go full rebuild, Hayes fits nicely into a lineup for us with our existing players.

Hayes
Lavine
Otto
Lauri
WCJ or Gafford

[TheSuzerain]

I mentioned this yesterday as well. We've been complaining for decades about not getting playmakers. This draft is loaded with them and this team badly needs a playmaker. Why it maybe time we draft on need not just BPA.

LaMelo Ball
Killian Hayes
Deni Avdija
Tyrese Haliburton

Take your pick.

This team needs a star more than any position. So they should draft BPA or highest upside.

I would love to see the team with a playmaker (that would be my personal top priority), but not at the expense of trying to draft the best player.

But the point is that playmakers have the highest upside in the league. Even Simmons does more for the Sixers than Embiid, and that's with absolutely no perimeter shooting ability. But any playmaker who can also defend and give you 15 ppg, that's basically a franchise corner-stone.

The only guy in the top-5 who has that classic athletic star with elite scoring potential is Edwards, and he's got flags too. I suppose Obi does too, except he's at that dreaded PF position with no defense and a really late rookie age.

Simmons definitely doesn't do more for Philly than Embiid.

Philly refusing to actually sign even an average point guard to have on their roster is pretty comical though.

[Rose2Boozer]

I think Deni will be gone by 4.

Hayes will be our pick IMO

Deni to Warriors is my prediction. He fits their system. I don't believe they'll work out a trade with any team for a wing they want. The value just isn't there.

It will be interesting to see what they think of Ball vs Hayes, cause Ball could be there.

The Warriors will probably use this pick and the Timberwolves pick to sweeten a deal for Giannis. I don't think Deni Avdija is on their radar. But we shall see.

[cjbulls]

I mentioned this yesterday as well. We've been complaining for decades about not getting playmakers. This draft is loaded with them and this team badly needs a playmaker. Why it maybe time we draft on need not just BPA.

LaMelo Ball
Killian Hayes
Deni Avdija
Tyrese Haliburton

Take your pick.

This team needs a star more than any position. So they should draft BPA or highest upside.

I would love to see the team with a playmaker (that would be my personal top priority), but not at the expense of trying to draft the best player.

But the point is that playmakers have the highest upside in the league. Even Simmons does more for the Sixers than Embiid, and that's with absolutely no perimeter shooting ability. But any playmaker who can also defend and give you 15 ppg, that's basically a franchise corner-stone.

The only guy in the top-5 who has that classic athletic star with elite scoring potential is Edwards, and he's got flags too. I suppose Obi does too, except he's at that dreaded PF position with no defense and a really late rookie age.

Eh, for the most part a star is a dominant scorer first, and that transitions into a playmaker. With notable exceptions for Jokic, Luka and LeBron, most of the league's stars are scorers first and playmakers second.

I'm not sure there are a lot of comps for playmakers that play defense and average close to 15ppg. Rubio, Jrue Holiday, George Hill and Malcolm Brogdon? Fine players, but definitely not franchise cornerstones and definitely not turning around this Bulls team.

[cjbulls]

I think Deni will be gone by 4.

Hayes will be our pick IMO

Deni to Warriors is my prediction. He fits their system. I don't believe they'll work out a trade with any team for a wing they want. The value just isn't there.

It will be interesting to see what they think of Ball vs Hayes, cause Ball could be there.

The Warriors will probably use this pick and the Timberwolves pick to sweeten a deal for Giannis. I don't think Deni Avdija is on their radar. But we shall see.

Sweeten how? There is 0.0% chance the Bucks trade him to the Warriors this offseason.

[MrSparkle]

This team needs a star more than any position. So they should draft BPA or highest upside.

I would love to see the team with a playmaker (that would be my personal top priority), but not at the expense of trying to draft the best player.

But the point is that playmakers have the highest upside in the league. Even Simmons does more for the Sixers than Embiid, and that's with absolutely no perimeter shooting ability. But any playmaker who can also defend and give you 15 ppg, that's basically a franchise corner-stone.

The only guy in the top-5 who has that classic athletic star with elite scoring potential is Edwards, and he's got flags too. I suppose Obi does too, except he's at that dreaded PF position with no defense and a really late rookie age.

Eh, for the most part a star is a dominant scorer first, and that transitions into a playmaker. With notable exceptions for Jokic, Luka and LeBron, most of the league's stars are scorers first and playmakers second.

I'm not sure there are a lot of comps for playmakers that play defense and average close to 15ppg. Rubio, Jrue Holiday, George Hill and Malcolm Brogdon? Fine players, but definitely not franchise cornerstones and definitely not turning around this Bulls team.

In a "bad" draft, are you sad coming away with a 19-20yo version of one of those 3 guys? Excluding Hill; I wouldn't call him a playmaker at all. He's a 3D PG.

I also quite honestly don't believe 1 rookie on his own can turn a team around on their own. Even Luka, Durant, Kobe, Lebron, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Duncan. Every guy had the benefit of joining a good organization, good coach (except MJ, who truly is the most long-shot story of an over-looked 3rd pick who changed everything about Chicago, the Bulls, basketball, sports shoes and the NBA).

I'm not denying that a Duncan, Bird or Luka are jackpot picks... But I'm just saying that the idea of expecting your draft picks to single-handedly turn a franchise around, I think it's not the way to look at it. The team needs to be turned around at the development, coaching and veteran level. Otherwise, that turn-around is gonna flame out early... like the Cavs of the 00s, the Rose Bulls... And then OKC and SAS did most things right and lost 2 top players of the decade.

But my point is that this team has a lot of work to do before it's even a good environment to drop a star in and contend. I imagine we have a losing season regardless what rookie comes in. There's no chance in hell any of these top-5 picks are contributing right away -- maybe Obi if his defense doesn't keep him off the floor.

[Rose2Boozer]

Deni to Warriors is my prediction. He fits their system. I don't believe they'll work out a trade with any team for a wing they want. The value just isn't there.

It will be interesting to see what they think of Ball vs Hayes, cause Ball could be there.

The Warriors will probably use this pick and the Timberwolves pick to sweeten a deal for Giannis. I don't think Deni Avdija is on their radar. But we shall see.

Sweeten how? There is 0.0% chance the Bucks trade him to the Warriors this offseason.

It's not about this off season. It's more about Giannis turning down a supermax offer and requesting a trade to the Warriors. The way the Bucks lost in the bubble isn't a good look. I think a championship is the minimum standard for Giannis next season, or he's outta there. James Wiseman and the Wolves pick will more than likely be apart of any potential deal.

[BullsFTW]

I think Deni will be gone by 4.

Hayes will be our pick IMO

If the Warriors really want Deni, they can’t risk trading down especially if the Hornets and/or Bulls are high on Deni.

[Chi town]

I think Deni will be gone by 4.

Hayes will be our pick IMO

If the Warriors really want Deni, they can’t risk trading down especially if the Hornets and/or Bulls are high on Deni.

Yep. I think Melo will go 1. Deni 2. Edwards 3. Hayes 4.

[BullsFTW]

I think Deni will be gone by 4.

Hayes will be our pick IMO

If the Warriors really want Deni, they can’t risk trading down especially if the Hornets and/or Bulls are high on Deni.

Yep. I think Melo will go 1. Deni 2. Edwards 3. Hayes 4.

In that scenario, Edwards could drop to #4 if the Hornets are set on a big and are really high on Wiseman or Okongwu. Imagine the Bulls having the opportunity to choose between Edwards and Hayes.

[PlayerUp]

If Obi Is the next Amare Stoudemire then he should go 1 in the draft . Amare was going to be a hall of famer until the injuries destroyed his career

It's his age and poor defense that's a major turnoff. He's more likely to be Derrick Williams than Amare Stoudemire as many have already pointed out here.

[PlayerUp]

Imagine the Bulls having the opportunity to choose between Edwards and Hayes.

No chance Edwards slips to #4 but if he does you go with Edwards at #4. He is the clear favorite to be a #1 option in this draft at the next level.

[BullsFTW]

I want Okongwu or Hayes.

Both would immediately start and play a key role for us.

Haliburton takes the bronze.

Okongwu is the best big in the draft. If we can flip Lauri or WCJ for Okongwu, I’m all for it.

[PlayerUp]

This team needs a star more than any position. So they should draft BPA or highest upside.

I would love to see the team with a playmaker (that would be my personal top priority), but not at the expense of trying to draft the best player.

There are no clear stars this draft and this draft lacks offensively dominant prospects.

If you're looking for #1 and #2 ceiling options offensively, then the list is Edwards, Wiseman, Obi, Cole Anthony, Kira Lewis, and maybe prospects like Killian Hayes, Pat Williams, Tyrell Terry can be that at the next level.