NBA Trade Thread #11

[Infinity2152]

It's because what the front office has been doing hasn"t worked. They should've moved in a new direction years ago and maybe they'd have assets to work with right now.

I don't think the team right now is in a good position to do anything. In your scenario the Pelicans will want the 2025 pick. What if it goes to SA?

Zion is a huge risk. I wouldn't do it, but if it were to happen it's the front office bring desperate.

I wish the Bulls didn't have a desperate front office.

Desperate would have been immediately blowing up the team after the injury, lol! What assets do you think we would possibly have better than what we have now? I'm still failing to see that new direction that would have resulted in us having that 1A player, which is the reason there's no hope here. If we had that young 1A, everybody's attitude would be different. Patrick Williams not being Tyrese Haliburton or D Wade or what you expect from a number 4 pick changes a lot. We had two young top 10 picks on the team at the same time as the "Big 3". We still have them, plus Ayo, another high potential rookie (Matas) and a young talent in Giddey. We're lacking in high end talent but we're not talentless and we're young. I'm hoping if we get our pick this year, we draft someone worth way more than whatever marginal gains we would have had pivoting.

And if they give the pick to SA?

Like I said the team fell apart after Lonzo got hurt and was bad during the first part of the following season. It was obvious to see that things weren't working and i'm not the only person to say that at that time (on RealGM).

If something isn't working it's best to try sonething else asap rather than drag it out.

If they give the pick to SA, that unlocks our future picks. Hard to make moves when you can't trade picks. Could be a large part of why some of these guys are still here. Again, no examples of what that something else actually looks like, if you want to continue to press the point. Give me some of these moves so we can debate them and whether the Bull are actually better off right now. Make moves/re-tool is incredibly vague. It assumes all these moves end positively with no chance for analysis. To me, the most effective re-tool will happen when you actually have cap space and your players are actually tradeable. Again, Zach and Vuc have been on the block all season.

It's like you keep saying we should have traded players that are clearly hard to trade and were probably worth less. Like that's simple. It easily could have cost us picks to move Vuc at that time. Ton of NBA players (especially Bulls!) injured every year, the players we added could have been among them, like Zach actually was last year. Why coulda-shoulda-woulda makes no sense. We could be sitting on worse contracts with that "re-tool". Well, I guess with 20/20 hindsight, you can pick players you KNOW weren't injured during the last two years, lol.

[Dan Z]

Desperate would have been immediately blowing up the team after the injury, lol! What assets do you think we would possibly have better than what we have now? I'm still failing to see that new direction that would have resulted in us having that 1A player, which is the reason there's no hope here. If we had that young 1A, everybody's attitude would be different. Patrick Williams not being Tyrese Haliburton or D Wade or what you expect from a number 4 pick changes a lot. We had two young top 10 picks on the team at the same time as the "Big 3". We still have them, plus Ayo, another high potential rookie (Matas) and a young talent in Giddey. We're lacking in high end talent but we're not talentless and we're young. I'm hoping if we get our pick this year, we draft someone worth way more than whatever marginal gains we would have had pivoting.

And if they give the pick to SA?

Like I said the team fell apart after Lonzo got hurt and was bad during the first part of the following season. It was obvious to see that things weren't working and i'm not the only person to say that at that time (on RealGM).

If something isn't working it's best to try sonething else asap rather than drag it out.

If they give the pick to SA, that unlocks our future picks. Hard to make moves when you can't trade picks. Could be a large part of why some of these guys are still here. Again, no examples of what that something else actually looks like, if you want to continue to press the point. Give me some of these moves so we can debate them and whether the Bull are actually better off right now. Make moves/re-tool is incredibly vague. It assumes all these moves end positively with no chance for analysis. To me, the most effective re-tool will happen when you actually have cap space and your players are actually tradeable. Again, Zach and Vuc have been on the block all season.

It's like you keep saying we should have traded players that are clearly hard to trade and were probably worth less. Like that's simple. It easily could have cost us picks to move Vuc at that time. Ton of NBA players (especially Bulls!) injured every year, the players we added could have been among them, like Zach actually was last year. Why coulda-shoulda-woulda makes no sense. We could be sitting on worse contracts with that "re-tool". Well, I guess with 20/20 hindsight, you can pick players you KNOW weren't injured during the last two years, lol.

When something isn't working it's better to move on. It will probably take awhile and that's ok.

That's where the Bulls are and still are. You like their current direction?

[Ccwatercraft]

I bet the Bulls would be in a better position right now had they done that. It was fairly obvious that Lonzo was going to be out for a long time.

I feel like this is revisionist history. It was not obvious that Lonzo would be out a long time.

It was always constantly rumored it would be beginning of the season or maybe Christmas or maybe new years or maybe all star break and then out for a year.

You can go back and look at posts here on Realgm. Many people, including myself, said he'd be out for a long period of time. It didn't take much to figure out and we're not the experts.

Many not the experts also said he'd never play again.

[Red8911]

Jimmy asked to get traded. You guys thinking what I’m thinking ?

[Ccwatercraft]

Jimmy asked to get traded. You guys thinking what I’m thinking ?

Are you thinking that tomorrow the media will speculate that the Lakers are interested? /s

[Muzbar]

Jimmy asked to get traded. You guys thinking what I’m thinking ?

If you're thinking there'll be some posters here that will be clamouring for the Bulls to trade for Butler and think Zach will somehow be enough.

Then, yes I am.

[Donkedave]

From the looks of it. Pels are gonna have to throw in a player or 2 to try to match the salary to get Zach anyway. Maybe a pick with that might be enough to entice the bulls. The question mark is Zion himself though.

The Pels don't have a need for Zach, they have plenty of guards, including McCollum and Dejounte Murray.

Besides, wouldn't the point of getting Zion be to pair him with Zach?

The only and I mean THE ONLY bonus if they did trade for him is 25/26 season he can only make a Max of $31,556,872
that’s if he plays 45/48 games remaining if he plays < 51 it is only $23,667,654

Oh that also requires him to meet all his weigh in requirements!!!

Guarantee triggers exist if certain criteria has been met:
20% of 2025-26 salary becomes guaranteed if passes all six of his weigh-in checkpoints during the 2024-25 season
40% of 2025-26 salary becomes guaranteed if plays >= 41 games during 2024-25 season, additional 20% if plays >= 51 games, remaining 20% if plays >= 61 games.

Salaries for 2026-27 and 2027-28 seasons can be re-guaranteed if above metrics are hit the season prior
Further protections via:
Weight must be less than 295 lbs; body fat monitored
Injury sustained to right foot

I’d rather not take the risk probably giving up picks for him to eat in Chicago. But if he turned into a shorter Shaq but stays healthy put those pounds on we saving money

[Andi Obst]

Jimmy asked to get traded. You guys thinking what I’m thinking ?

Stay away and enjoy the show?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm thinking.

[Infinity2152]

And if they give the pick to SA?

Like I said the team fell apart after Lonzo got hurt and was bad during the first part of the following season. It was obvious to see that things weren't working and i'm not the only person to say that at that time (on RealGM).

If something isn't working it's best to try sonething else asap rather than drag it out.

If they give the pick to SA, that unlocks our future picks. Hard to make moves when you can't trade picks. Could be a large part of why some of these guys are still here. Again, no examples of what that something else actually looks like, if you want to continue to press the point. Give me some of these moves so we can debate them and whether the Bull are actually better off right now. Make moves/re-tool is incredibly vague. It assumes all these moves end positively with no chance for analysis. To me, the most effective re-tool will happen when you actually have cap space and your players are actually tradeable. Again, Zach and Vuc have been on the block all season.

It's like you keep saying we should have traded players that are clearly hard to trade and were probably worth less. Like that's simple. It easily could have cost us picks to move Vuc at that time. Ton of NBA players (especially Bulls!) injured every year, the players we added could have been among them, like Zach actually was last year. Why coulda-shoulda-woulda makes no sense. We could be sitting on worse contracts with that "re-tool". Well, I guess with 20/20 hindsight, you can pick players you KNOW weren't injured during the last two years, lol.

When something isn't working it's better to move on. It will probably take awhile and that's ok.

That's where the Bulls are and still are. You like their current direction?

We don't KNOW their current direction, lol! This year was a pivot, basically everybody put on the trade block. I like that, I'm all about flexibility. Not where we are right now, but what can we do? We could literally have all positive contracts this summer, for the first time in 3-4 years. We've had bad contracts, multiple injured players and sweating our lost first round picks for years. That's almost over. Unlike a lot of people in here, I'd rather have $100 mill in talented, tradeable contracts right now than $100 mill cap space. Free agents are usually signed near the top of their value or more, unless they're old. A ton of players get traded every year, and most teams want talent back when giving up talent, not cap space. Why expiring stars are traded for non-expiring contracts many times, better chance of getting reasonable contracts (for young players) in the trade market than FA. There are always more stars you can try to trade for every year than move in free agency as well.

Looks like they've moved away from trading picks, etc to win now. Also looks like we're clearing the books. They're willing to move the vets. Opens up a lot more possibilities. I'm not as down on Zach, Pat, Vuc, Giddey, Matas or Ayo as most people I think. Giddey, Ayo and Matas in particular. There's a lot of valuable talent there, whether we keep them or trade them. We have some solid young players. Pat and Coby have been mentioned in trade rumors, so they may be willing to combine some of these good players for a great player. Vuc trade is the only thing I think they NEED to do right now. If I'm looking at the team this summer, I see possibilities galore. Not worrying about how we got here, because trading some of those players previously may have resulted in a better team, it could also be worse, and we can't go back in time, so who cares? Don't care much about this season either. Win, we lose our pick, and unlock our future picks. Lose and we get our draft pick this year. Win either way to me.

We have no idea what the team will look like next year, that's pretty exciting. No way to judge the team until that's settled.

Of course, we need a little luck, like everybody. If we can find a deal for Zach like that Paul George for SGA, trade him for a slightly lower rated prospect who goes beyond him, or draft a star this year, that could change everything. We've had a lot of bad luck with injuries, we're due some good luck. Or catch a young team tired of losing and willing to do a fire sale to get star talent, like Detroit.

[jnrjr79]

Jimmy asked to get traded. You guys thinking what I’m thinking ?

If you're thinking there'll be some posters here that will be clamouring for the Bulls to trade for Butler and think Zach will somehow be enough.

Then, yes I am.

Ha, people will definitely be clamoring for trading for Butler, but I'd suspect that Miami would prefer just letting Butler expire and having the space next year.

[Infinity2152]

Butler is NOT the disgruntled player you want to keep on a young team. He could literally destroy the chemistry and ruin young players on the way out. The way he left Philly and the T wolves was ugly. Butler could claim injured right after the deadline, and miraculously be healthy this summer. Heat get nothing from him second half of the season, nothing in trade for him, and he walks, leaving devastated young players behind.

And if I'm adding Butler, it's to pair him with Zach. Would not trade Zach for him, then he leaves this summer because no other star. Butler at this point should be thinking of his legacy. He's not getting the super max from Miami. Most he's going to get is max or near max from any team. Very few contending teams will be able to offer that. If he has to go to a non-contender, who better than the Bulls? Get a good contract, spend the next few years in a city he's very familiar with and is already popular, elevate the team. Get us to second round, or conference Finals, he's a homecoming hero and his number gets retired here.

[boozapalooza]

Jimmy asked to get traded. You guys thinking what I’m thinking ?

Not saying Zach for Jimmy. But could Zach make sense as a Jimmy replacement in Miami?

I’m good with Zach for Rozier, Jacquez/Jovic, filler.
Maybe Miami takes on some salary they don’t want in a Jimmy trade that can be used here

I also wonder if Pistons are back in play on Zach with the Ivey injury. They were interested last year. A Cade/Zach backcourt would be nasty.

Somethings gotta give here AK….

[Red8911]

Jimmy asked to get traded. You guys thinking what I’m thinking ?

If you're thinking there'll be some posters here that will be clamouring for the Bulls to trade for Butler and think Zach will somehow be enough.

Then, yes I am.

Ha, people will definitely be clamoring for trading for Butler, but I'd suspect that Miami would prefer just letting Butler expire and having the space next year.

Hey look this is Jimmy we talking about ofcourse I would love to have him back and have him possibly retire as a Bull. Never wanted him gone in the first place.

In reality though this isn't happening and doubt either side would be interested in a reunion.

[patryk7754]

Jimmy and Lavine would fit great together

[Infinity2152]

Mad scientist/GM scenario:
Trade Vuc before deadline for expirings and 2 seconds. Seconds can turn into valuable players.
Trade Carter for expiring before deadline, even if it cost a second
Lose because we traded Vuc, end up with pick #4, draft Ace Bailey
Trade Patrick Williams this summer into cap for future 1st and a second
Trade White into cap for 2 future firsts
Re-sign Giddey to $18 mill AAV, Pat contract
Trade Terry into cap space, get maybe a future first or second
Re-sign Lonzo 1-2 yr vet min, about 3.3

We have Zach ($46 mill), Giddey ($18 mill), Smith ($9 mill), Ayo (7.5), Matas (5.5), Phillips (2.2), Bailey (7.5) Ball (3.3)=99

Cap is projected $155. Sign Jimmy to 3yr $50 mill AAV. Takes us to 149
Sign Steven Adams 2 yrs/12 mill. $156. just over cap, but we should have a ton of trade exemptions, not calculating all possible permutations.

Fill out roster with vet mins, at least 1 3pt specialist

Starters: Giddey, Lavine, Matas, Butler, Adams
Bench: Ball, Ayo, Bailey, Phillips, Smith
Plus we picked up 3 extra firsts and 2-3 seconds
Our main young prospects are now Giddey, Matas and Bailey instead of White, Williams, Terry. Much brighter future?

What do you think?

[Chi town]

Jimmy asked to get traded. You guys thinking what I’m thinking ?

Not saying Zach for Jimmy. But could Zach make sense as a Jimmy replacement in Miami?

I’m good with Zach for Rozier, Jacquez/Jovic, filler.
Maybe Miami takes on some salary they don’t want in a Jimmy trade that can be used here

I also wonder if Pistons are back in play on Zach with the Ivey injury. They were interested last year. A Cade/Zach backcourt would be nasty.

Somethings gotta give here AK….

That Pistons GM that wanted Zach is no longer employed. DET has a new GM

[Chi town]

Jimmy is pouting like usual when he doesn’t get what he wants. He wants his money and he knows Heat won’t pay him and Heat won’t be winning anything.

No one will pay him 50M per but someone will pay him 30M this summer if he opts out. Don’t think he will because there is no way he gets 50M per.

[Infinity2152]

Jimmy is pouting like usual when he doesn’t get what he wants. He wants his money and he knows Heat won’t pay him and Heat won’t be winning anything.

No one will pay him 50M per but someone will pay him 30M this summer if he opts out. Don’t think he will because there is no way he gets 50M per.

PG13 just signed a 4year/ 211 mill contract. He's one year younger than Butler. Butler arguably contributes more to winning and can play as a 1A. They're definitely around the same level. George's contract will pay him $54 mill at age 36, older than Jimmy is now, and $56 mill at 37. Jimmy has played WAY more games the last 5-6 years. He can definitely get a multi-year $50 mill offer. Or he has a trash agent.

Stats this year: George 16.3 pts, 4.5 assist, 5.5 rebounds 34% from 3, 42% FG
Butler 17.6 pts, 4.7 assists, 5.5 rebounds 38% from 3, 55% FG

Why on earth would he not be considered worth as much as PG13?

[jnrjr79]

Jimmy is pouting like usual when he doesn’t get what he wants. He wants his money and he knows Heat won’t pay him and Heat won’t be winning anything.

No one will pay him 50M per but someone will pay him 30M this summer if he opts out. Don’t think he will because there is no way he gets 50M per.

PG13 just signed a 4year/ 211 mill contract. He's one year younger than Butler. Butler arguably contributes more to winning and can play as a 1A. They're definitely around the same level. George's contract will pay him $54 mill at age 36, older than Jimmy is now, and $56 mill at 37. Jimmy has played WAY more games the last 5-6 years. He can definitely get a multi-year $50 mill offer.

Stats this year: George 16.3 pts, 4.5 assist, 5.5 rebounds 34% from 3, 42% FG
Butler 17.6 pts, 4.7 assists, 5.5 rebounds 38% from 3, 55% FG

Why on earth would he not be considered worth as much as PG13?

When George actually signed the contract, he was coming off a season of 22.6 points, 3.5 assists, 5.2 rebounds, 41.3% from 3, and 47.1% FG. So, if you were using his current season with Philly as the baseline, I don't think he gets that deal again, considering the level of decline. The PG deal is probably a cautionary tale.

The other thing is that, at present, there don't project to be any Philly-like teams that will be viewing themselves as contenders and also have sufficient space to max Butler.

[Infinity2152]

Jimmy is pouting like usual when he doesn’t get what he wants. He wants his money and he knows Heat won’t pay him and Heat won’t be winning anything.

No one will pay him 50M per but someone will pay him 30M this summer if he opts out. Don’t think he will because there is no way he gets 50M per.

PG13 just signed a 4year/ 211 mill contract. He's one year younger than Butler. Butler arguably contributes more to winning and can play as a 1A. They're definitely around the same level. George's contract will pay him $54 mill at age 36, older than Jimmy is now, and $56 mill at 37. Jimmy has played WAY more games the last 5-6 years. He can definitely get a multi-year $50 mill offer.

Stats this year: George 16.3 pts, 4.5 assist, 5.5 rebounds 34% from 3, 42% FG
Butler 17.6 pts, 4.7 assists, 5.5 rebounds 38% from 3, 55% FG

Why on earth would he not be considered worth as much as PG13?

When George actually signed the contract, he was coming off a season of 22.6 points, 3.5 assists, 5.2 rebounds, 41.3% from 3, and 47.1% FG. So, if you were using his current season with Philly as the baseline, I don't think he gets that deal again, considering the level of decline. The PG deal is probably a cautionary tale.

The other thing is that, at present, there don't project to be any Philly-like teams that will be viewing themselves as contenders and also have sufficient space to max Butler.

Yeah, considered the contender/cap situation but there are a lot of ways around that, especially if Detroit or Nets decide not to go hard in free agency and stack assets a third trade partner. PG13 had better stats and played 74 games his free agency year, but he played 56, 31, 54, 48 the 4 previous years. Overall, likely to play less games than Butler. It's possible he doesn't get $50 mill. But it's very possible he does. $50 mill is not the same as it was 5 years ago. Jimmy at 3 yrs/$150 is still $12mill cheaper than PG13's last three years. So not saying he gets the same contract, but he's a similar level, more healthy player, he could get a slightly smaller offer.


Jimmy could turn a non-contender (like us) into a contender more than PG13, imo.