Melo #13: Believe in Joakim Noah & Crew

[Hahn]

If it's up to what Lala wants, Larsa Pippen needs to get to work

[Chi]

The Bulls are not at Melo's mercy.

If he wants to win for less, we are the spot to do it. If he wants to lose for more stay in NY...

In either case the Bulls have many other options and will win this.

[gmoney411]

houston rockets beat writer on the Game:

- howard harden drexler will be part of pitch

- If they unload lin which he thinks they can cause its easy to give a guy away for nothing sometimes salary can start at around 17-17.5 If they unload a couple other players can get it up to 20 a year

if they can unload Lin then surely we can unload Booze. Lin is mostly just BAD

Lin's cap number is half of what Boozer's is and Lin is still a cash cow.

[Pnjguy]

I disagree with a lot of you. If he goes back to NY, its because it's his home and he doesn't want to move his family. Not sure he signs the mega-max in NY.

[waffle]

but lebron took less at one point to WIN WIN WIN. Maybe Melo does exactly that, follows Bron's lead. Seemed to work out OK for him, eh?

Less for LeBron was still 6 years/$110 million or so....not really comparable.

Longer, yes, but that works out to about 18.3 a year, right? OK, that is quite a bit more....never mind

[Michael Jackson]

Knicks fans just think that since they got fleeced for Melo its only fair they fleece someone else. What they don't realize is that not every organization is as terrible as the Knicks are or were...

They also fail to realize this: Not getting Melo, keeping our stuff, and signing some of the many other very good secondary free agents out there, might even be the best option for the Bulls. The Bulls aren't in a position where signing Melo is a necessity. And he's definitely not worth gutting the team over. The Bulls assets are too good, and Melo isn't good enough, to do that.

And I don't think Melo would be on board with that plan, he has seen that movie already.

[MGB8]

Knicks fans have to accept the possibility that Melo walks and takes 16.4 to start, so that over the 4 years he gives up 30 million dollars.

Because, given the difference in income taxes (5% vs. 12%), it's probably more like 25 million. Add in playoff revenue, maybe 23 million (not exactly sure how much extra they get). A bump in endorsements due to more success and just buzz about the move - it does down to 15 million, maybe 10 million... maybe goes down to zero.

If Bosh and Wade are willing to take paycuts to have a stacked team, then Melo, if he wants any shot at the ring - at competing with Miami (and Indiana) knows he is also going to have to take a cut, and there's really only one situation that makes him truly competitive for the title and against Miami.

[Edit - given the real chance of a lockout / significant changes to the CBA, I don't know that there's any point in even considering year 3 or 4 at this point, much less a year 5].

Rose has missed past 2 seasons and we couldn't even win a game at home against the Wiz in 1st round let's not pretend we have the finals locked.

I'm not. But Houston got bounced from the first round WITH both their stars healthy.

We got bounced with a completely imbalanced team, without Rose, and with overplayed and banged up bigs and wings (still a risk - sigh, Thibs, we love ya man, but...).

You are adding Derrick Rose and now Carmelo Anthony to the main pieces (minus DJ, but maybe not?) in that first round playoff team. A team that won't have to grind so much to get to the playoffs.

You don't think that this team has a real shot of competing with Miami (assuming Rose and others stay healthy)? I think that a healthy Bulls team with Rose-Butler-Melo-Taj-Noah would be even money with the Heat. Maybe even have an edge.

[mpharris36]

The sac pick is extremely heavily protected. And sending Boozer contract out (using last year GSW trade as an example took 2 1st's and 3 2nd's).

So lets say sending boozer out to a 3rd team would will take Your 2015 pick (swap with Cavs) + Sac Pick + a couple 2nd rounders (seems pretty fair).

Now S&T for Melo still would be required to get him his 20+ million (close if not 22 million). The trade would basically be Melo + JR for Mirotic, 2017 1st round pick, Butler, fillers. (seems pretty fair as well).

So if the knicks were willing to combine both trades to simplify the deal instead of going to a 3rd team and getting you the max for Melo in terms of the 125% trade kicker to send out more money in Melo's S&T.

The bulls would also get there exemptions and get to keep McDermott, Snell and bird rights to DJ Aug as well for depth purposes.

I think the point is the Bulls have other options and Bulls fans would prefer those other options and maybe so does our front office. It also depends on how big of a pay cut Melo is willing to take.

It is quite possible the Bulls could amnesty Boozer and trade Dunleavy and Randolph as a package to a team with cap space for next to nothing. That would allow Melo to start around 15 mil. If we dump Snell as well about 16.5 mil. At that point the Knicks have a choice as to weather or not call Melo's bluff on the pay decrease.

I think Knicks fans are working under the assumption Melo wants his 20 mil per year. I think Bulls fans are hoping he goes the same route as the Heatles and take less. Which way will Melo go...only Melo knows.

This.

If Melo wants money, he's staying with the Knicks. Period. Bulls can't compete with the Knicks dollars and aren't going to gut eveything because that defeats the purpose - having a contending team.

If Melo wants to win more than money, then the Knicks have very little leverage, though they probably will still get back a couple of first round picks just to give Melo more money and give the Bulls more financial flexibility.

That would basically equal 73.8 million in total salary over 4 years. If Melo is willing to take approx. 60 million less guaranteed over 5 years over that then that is a risk I am more willing to take. I really don't think Melo wants out of NY that bad (moving his family and kid) from a city he likes to lose out on 60 million guaranteed dollars. Now if you can get that closer to 30 million guaranteed now you would be on to something. But you would need to get him over 90+ million over 4.

[ikeziskash]

Dear Knicks fans, if Melo doesn't want to come back to you, you have NO LEVERAGE in trade demands. Deal with it.

Now that's just not true. They don't have to take Boozer's final year for us and it's highly doubtful we would salary-dump enough to sign Melo outright.

Quid pro quo

if he wants to leave you have no leverage just be honest

[red222]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RealGM/status/484347887175077888[/tweet]

[MGB8]

houston rockets beat writer on the Game:

- howard harden drexler will be part of pitch

- If they unload lin which he thinks they can cause its easy to give a guy away for nothing sometimes salary can start at around 17-17.5 If they unload a couple other players can get it up to 20 a year

if they can unload Lin then surely we can unload Booze. Lin is mostly just BAD

Lin's cap number is half of what Boozer's is and Lin is still a cash cow.

But you still have to pay them both, almost the same money.

Meanwhile, you have enough teams way under the cap that, for a first round pick, they'll take either 1 year deal just to make sure they meat the minimum payroll requirement.

[Michael Jackson]

If it's up to what Lala wants, Larsa Pippen needs to get to work

Or give her a basketball wives Chicago show to appease her.

[Chi]

thank you , it seems like the best common ground for both organizations.

Please stop polluting our forum with these terrible trade scenarios. I stopped reading the Knicks forum to get away from the delusional posts.

If you don't think Mirotic Butler and picks is worth signing Melo to the max to make him happy then you obviously disagree in terms of how good Melo is.

That is fine. But he is worth that, trust me. If you get him you will see.

And if you got the stuff you've mentioned you'll see just how you bad you raped Chicago for an aging Carmelo Anthony.

But you won't.


If we get him we'll still have the majority of that stuff if not all of it. So I guess there's no way any of us will ever know who was right in this debate.

And I'm fine with that.


Edit: By the way, If a max contract is what it takes to make "Melo Happy" then this is not the place for him! That is the point we are all trying to stress to you Knicks fans.

[CloudyFuture]

Couple KC Johnson points so far that I caught anyways

- McDermott trade was cruical Give Bulls opportunity to trade Dunleavy for cap space

- What does Carmelo represent Nike / Jordan brand You dont think Nike could make up some/all the money lost should Carmelo come to Chicago Dont you think Nike would want a big star in Chicago to represent the Jordan brand Thats a possibility

- knicks saying right now they wont S&T for boozer but things change Thinks if Carmelo does want to come to Chicago a S&T will happen cause want to get assets back

- Has talked to Carlos Boozer Handling all the off season Bulls stuff (guess trade and amnesty talk) very professionally

[red222]

nvm

[sicko]

I think he ends up back in NY for the MAX and he will likely say he is staying because of his Wife and Son which I don't have a problem with.

Hopefully Bulls have a backup play if he doesn't come to Chicago

[ChiBulls09]

The one thing that really worries me about Carmelo's decision is what the effect of leaving would have to the viewpoint of him from fans of NY.

NY was his most preferred destination back in 2011... he was able to successfully get his way to that team. He then energized the fan base.

If he chooses the Bulls... wouldn't the NYK fans boo him the rest of his career? Does he really want to deal with that...?


I'm worried. In the end, I think he would probably take not getting booed from his hometown fans.

That's what Lebron dealt with 2010 - Present. He gave up playing for his hometown to contend and now he's a 2 time champ.

The differnece here is that LeBron tried for a few years to recruit his buddies to Cleveland. No one wanted to come. The closet he got was a broken down Shaq who was too far past his prime. But he made serious pitches to every FA in 2008 and 2009 to crickets.

This is actually the time Melo should be recruiting for the Knicks, and he's doing some 'spying' on the other top orgainzations which might be his version of recruiting for Phil.

But I agree that becoming a pariah in NYC and turning down a MAX deal seems insane for Melo.
The NYC media will destroy those guys if he leaves. I just can't see the wife and kid being OK with that, becoming pariahs in the city they seem to love. Would you want that?

I think yesterday was basically Melo giving Joakim the curteosy of a Bulls pitch but this was also his chance to explain to all those guys why he needs to stay in NYC despite the fact this would be a good fit. Instead of them reading stories in the press if/why he resigns in NYC - they will know exactly why and heard it from him directly yesteday.

The NBA has changed. Jo, Rose and Melo might be hanging at ASG for years to come. Carmelo will be in USA basketball with Thibs in a few weeks.

It all comes down to $$$ (NY) or having a legit chance of wining the O'Brien trophy now (CHI)

[r1terrell23]

I think he ends up back in NY for the MAX and he will likely say he is staying because of his Wife and Son which I don't have a problem with.

Hopefully Bulls have a backup play if he doesn't come to Chicago

Negged

[TruthSerum]

Rose has missed past 2 seasons and we couldn't even win a game at home against the Wiz in 1st round let's not pretend we have the finals locked.

I'm not. But Houston got bounced from the first round WITH both their stars healthy.

We got bounced with a completely imbalanced team, without Rose, and with overplayed and banged up bigs and wings (still a risk - sigh, Thibs, we love ya man, but...).

You are adding Derrick Rose and now Carmelo Anthony to the main pieces (minus DJ, but maybe not?) in that first round playoff team. A team that won't have to grind so much to get to the playoffs.

You don't think that this team has a real shot of competing with Miami (assuming Rose and others stay healthy)? I think that a healthy Bulls team with Rose-Butler-Melo-Taj-Noah would be even money with the Heat. Maybe even have an edge.

We were relatively healthy aside from Butler being burned out just deprived of talent. In a perfect world, yes that starting 5 is awesome and should give us legitimate chance at finals just pointing out that nothing is close to being guaranteed.

[MGB8]

This.

If Melo wants money, he's staying with the Knicks. Period. Bulls can't compete with the Knicks dollars and aren't going to gut eveything because that defeats the purpose - having a contending team.

If Melo wants to win more than money, then the Knicks have very little leverage, though they probably will still get back a couple of first round picks just to give Melo more money and give the Bulls more financial flexibility.

That would basically equal 73.8 million in total salary over 4 years. If Melo is willing to take approx. 60 million less guaranteed over 5 years over that then that is a risk I am more willing to take. I really don't think Melo wants out of NY that bad (moving his family and kid) from a city he likes to lose out on 60 million guaranteed dollars. Now if you can get that closer to 30 million guaranteed now you would be on to something. But you would need to get him over 90+ million over 4.

You really can't compare 4 years to 5 years. You have to compare 4 to 4. Yeah, there's some risk that he doesn't get paid in year 5. But chances are that he will be making significant money. If he's still playing at a high level then, a full 20. So it would be a $40 million dollar difference...

Ifyou factor in potential increased endorsements due to the buzz of a move and more projected success (because the Knicks are starting over and who knows what they could get next year in FA - possibly striking out like in 2010, pre-Melo) along with taxes and some other factors (cost of living), that 40 million might not actually mean a lot in real terms with respect to his earnings.

You know how crazy expensive NY is, especially at the super high end. Chicago is way cheaper (for a giant city that you can drive and hour and still be in).