OT: The next President of the United States: ★★★ Donald Trump ★★★

[I_Never Lied]

1. Voting is a basic right that should never be infringed upon. Requiring ID to protect voter fraud works against the idea that voting should have active participation. Significantly less people would vote if ID is required and the reason for wanting ID is essentially suppressing votes of people who tend to be Democrats.

1. Owning guns is a basic right that should never be infringed upon. Requiring ID to protect against gun fraud works against the idea that gun ownership should have active participation. Significantly less people would own guns if ID is required and the reason for wanting ID is essentially suppressing gun rights of people who tend to be Americans.

But seriously, how do you function as a human being without an ID in 2016? This topic will never be debated in an intellectually honest way. How many people don't have a valid form of ID? Do we really want those people to be able to vote? Would requiring an ID make dishonest people think twice about committing fraud? If requiring an ID doesn't work, then why do we require it for so many other things in life? Can you even entertain the idea that people in favor of voter ID laws have good intentions?

Watch on YouTube

This is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. You can be arrested by the police if you don't have an ID on you. This is specifically why the Democrats want illegal aliens in the country. Once you step foot in America you can vote.

[TimRobbins]

then you my friend, probably shouldn't vote. Sad is worse than likely likely total fiasco? Funny is more important that competence?

You really need to think this through more.

The world will go on. Don't worry. At least we'll get a few laughs and a few less wars.

if you're concerned about unnecessary beefs with foreigners that lead to military incursions, i'm not sure donald trump is your guy. i mean, how else is he gonna get mexico to pay for that wall?

I have zero trust in Trump, but considering the fact the Hillary is a certified psychopath, then my educated guess is that Trump will initiate fewer military actions. Close call though.

[GetBuLLish]

Partisan hackery and rank hypocrisy has never been more on display than in this election.

Read on Twitter

I just don't get the motive of being a partisan whose sole goal is to defend "your team" and attack the "other team." Why can't people argue based on principle or reason or logic? Makes no sense to me. I've been saying it for at least four years now: partisan hackery (on full display in this thread) is the number one problem in this country when it comes to politics/government.

[DanTown8587]

Partisan hackery and rank hypocrisy has never been more on display than in this election.

Read on Twitter

I just don't get the motive of being a partisan whose sole goal is to defend "your team" and attack the "other team." Why can't people argue based on principle or reason or logic? Makes no sense to me. I've been saying it for at least four years now: partisan hackery (on full display in this thread) is the number one problem in this country when it comes to politics/government.

Says the guy when I talk about voter fraud, goes and finds an eight year old quote of something Obama said to try and prove that "Democrats believe in voter fraud" when in actuality, BOTH Democrats and Republicans in recent weeks have come out and said that the need for voter ID to "protect" against voter fraud is essentially a Republican voter suppression tactic.

There is a ton of things that I disagree with Democrats on/agree with Republicans on. It's just at this point in time and where the discussion is, I disagree strongly with the Republican group that got Donald Trump to the nomination and I vehemently disagree with the idea that Trump is qualified to be the President. I ALSO believe that Hillary Clinton has legitimate flaws but when Clinton's flaws are discussed, they are quite often exaggerated to a completely wrong point.

[GetBuLLish]

Says the guy when I talk about voter fraud, goes and finds an eight year old quote of something Obama said to try and prove that "Democrats believe in voter fraud" when in actuality, BOTH Democrats and Republicans in recent weeks have come out and said that the need for voter ID to "protect" against voter fraud is essentially a Republican voter suppression tactic.

First, given your response, I don't think you understand what partisan means. Quite ironic.

Second, explain to me why Obama's own quote is somehow now off limits. Was he lying then? What voter fraud existed pre-2008 that justified Obama's comments? And what has been done to get rid of those problems? And finally, where was the national outcry about Obama attacking the sanctity and fairness of the election process?

I don't even believe voter fraud is a major problem, though it clearly exists. Just wanted to point out your hypocrisy. Mission accomplished.

[BR0D1E86]

This is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. You can be arrested by the police if you don't have an ID on you.

Not in my state. You're only required to carry ID if you're driving. Which is neither here nor there in this discussion, but there you go.

Now I am a police officer, and I've taken people to jail for stuff I otherwise would have written tickets when they don't present ID, but that's because I have never written a ticket without being damn sure I've got the right person. And these people were lying to me about their identities, so I took them to the jail to fingerprint ID them.

Just had one continue to lie to me about their ID after I got their photo ID from the DMV, matched their tattoos AND got a positive fingerprint ID. Eventually came clean, but it was pretty entertaining along the way.

[TheStig]

1. Owning guns is a basic right that should never be infringed upon. Requiring ID to protect against gun fraud works against the idea that gun ownership should have active participation. Significantly less people would own guns if ID is required and the reason for wanting ID is essentially suppressing gun rights of people who tend to be Americans.

But seriously, how do you function as a human being without an ID in 2016? This topic will never be debated in an intellectually honest way. How many people don't have a valid form of ID? Do we really want those people to be able to vote? Would requiring an ID make dishonest people think twice about committing fraud? If requiring an ID doesn't work, then why do we require it for so many other things in life? Can you even entertain the idea that people in favor of voter ID laws have good intentions?

Watch on YouTube

This is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. You can be arrested by the police if you don't have an ID on you. This is specifically why the Democrats want illegal aliens in the country. Once you step foot in America you can vote.

There are tons of people who are citizens in under served areas that don't have ID's or bank accounts or things we take for granted.

[TheSuzerain]

Says the guy when I talk about voter fraud, goes and finds an eight year old quote of something Obama said to try and prove that "Democrats believe in voter fraud" when in actuality, BOTH Democrats and Republicans in recent weeks have come out and said that the need for voter ID to "protect" against voter fraud is essentially a Republican voter suppression tactic.

First, given your response, I don't think you understand what partisan means. Quite ironic.

Second, explain to me why Obama's own quote is somehow now off limits. Was he lying then? What voter fraud existed pre-2008 that justified Obama's comments? And what has been done to get rid of those problems? And finally, where was the national outcry about Obama attacking the sanctity and fairness of the election process?

I don't even believe voter fraud is a major problem, though it clearly exists. Just wanted to point out your hypocrisy. Mission accomplished.

Obama was campaigning. His comments mean nothing to me in determining the existence of voter fraud.

There have been actual studies on the incidence of voter fraud, and the result every time is that there is an insignificant amount.This is because it is incredibly difficult to do at any meaningful scale given how our voting process is conducted. It'd almost surely be more effective to just engage in traditional campaigning with your resources.

So if we can agree that the occurrence of voter fraud is insignificant, then we can in turn agree that the benefit of Voter ID laws is insignificant.

Put quite plainly, the suppression of legitimate voters would far exceed the avoidance of fraudulent votes if a Voter ID law were to be passed, thus I do not support Voter ID laws.

[dice]

The world will go on. Don't worry. At least we'll get a few laughs and a few less wars.

if you're concerned about unnecessary beefs with foreigners that lead to military incursions, i'm not sure donald trump is your guy. i mean, how else is he gonna get mexico to pay for that wall?

I have zero trust in Trump, but considering the fact the Hillary is a certified psychopath, then my educated guess is that Trump will initiate fewer military actions. Close call though.

uh, ok. you're reading too many zany trump fan conspiracy theories. either that or you don't know the meaning of either word

[dice]

Says the guy when I talk about voter fraud, goes and finds an eight year old quote of something Obama said to try and prove that "Democrats believe in voter fraud" when in actuality, BOTH Democrats and Republicans in recent weeks have come out and said that the need for voter ID to "protect" against voter fraud is essentially a Republican voter suppression tactic.

First, given your response, I don't think you understand what partisan means. Quite ironic.

Second, explain to me why Obama's own quote is somehow now off limits. Was he lying then? What voter fraud existed pre-2008 that justified Obama's comments? And what has been done to get rid of those problems? And finally, where was the national outcry about Obama attacking the sanctity and fairness of the election process?

I don't even believe voter fraud is a major problem, though it clearly exists. Just wanted to point out your hypocrisy. Mission accomplished.

did you not read my direct response to your post? it was pretty damn clear (as if it shouldn't have been clear just by his comments). obama is not talking about fraud by voters. you're (intentionally?) using a fallacious argument, and thus in reality hurting your point rather than helping it

voters are NOT committing fraud to anything approaching a meaningful degree. obama's comments do not even address that issue

[GetBuLLish]

did you not read my direct response to your post? it was pretty damn clear (as if it shouldn't have been clear just by his comments). obama is not talking about fraud by voters. you're (intentionally?) using a fallacious argument, and thus in reality hurting your point rather than helping it

voters are NOT committing fraud to anything approaching a meaningful degree. obama's comments do not even address that issue

DanTown said "voter fraud does not exist." Is it your and his position that voter fraud does exist but that it is committed by the people running the elections?

If that is your position (and it has to be, otherwise your post makes no sense), then doesn't common logic dictate that if the people running the election are willing to fraudulently conduct an election, then those same people would be willing to assist voters in committing election fraud? If you accept that common sense logic, then isn't it reasonable to take the proactive step to combat that with an imminently reasonable regulation of requiring a state ID? Or is voter suppression the only possible reason?

[TimRobbins]

if you're concerned about unnecessary beefs with foreigners that lead to military incursions, i'm not sure donald trump is your guy. i mean, how else is he gonna get mexico to pay for that wall?

I have zero trust in Trump, but considering the fact the Hillary is a certified psychopath, then my educated guess is that Trump will initiate fewer military actions. Close call though.

uh, ok. you're reading too many zany trump fan conspiracy theories. either that or you don't know the meaning of either word

Nah, I'm not into any conspiracy theories. I do think you're simply living in willful denial though.

We're talking about the woman who wanted to drone Assange. There's much more, but that's enough of a "certification" for me.

Doesn't matter though. She could pull out a knife and behead your family ISIS style and you'd still think she's great, so there's not much point in this discussion.

[dice]

did you not read my direct response to your post? it was pretty damn clear (as if it shouldn't have been clear just by his comments). obama is not talking about fraud by voters. you're (intentionally?) using a fallacious argument, and thus in reality hurting your point rather than helping it

voters are NOT committing fraud to anything approaching a meaningful degree. obama's comments do not even address that issue

DanTown said "voter fraud does not exist." Is it your and his position that voter fraud does exist but that it is committed by the people running the elections?

If that is your position (and it has to be, otherwise your post makes no sense), then doesn't common logic dictate that if the people running the election are willing to fraudulently conduct an election, then those same people would be willing to assist voters in committing election fraud?

except that they don't. and it would be stupid to do so because the risk of being caught FAR outweighs the extremely marginal benefit

then isn't it reasonable to take the proactive step to combat that with an imminently reasonable regulation of requiring a state ID?

no. because it's not happening

Or is voter suppression the only possible reason?

yes. again, there's a reason why only now has this become and "issue." desperation is the only reason for it. and it goes far beyond IDs

[dice]

I have zero trust in Trump, but considering the fact the Hillary is a certified psychopath, then my educated guess is that Trump will initiate fewer military actions. Close call though.

uh, ok. you're reading too many zany trump fan conspiracy theories. either that or you don't know the meaning of either word

Nah, I'm not into any conspiracy theories. I do think you're simply living in willful denial though.

We're talking about the woman who wanted to drone Assange. There's much more, but that's enough of a "certification" for me.

where'd you pull that one from? breitbart? and this is your primary example of why hillary is bad?

until you start dealing in reality you're actually hurting the case against hillary. and there's plenty of LEGITIMATE criticism of her

Doesn't matter though. She could pull out a knife and behead your family ISIS style and you'd still think she's great, so there's not much point in this discussion.

i don't even think she's great. so you're dealing in bald-faced lies at this point

i'm a fan of the truth. you seem to be a fan of gross hyperbole and outright fabrication

[TimRobbins]

where'd you pull that one from? breitbart?

This is exactly what I mean by "willfull denial". P-S-Y-C-H-O-P-A-T-H.

EDIT: Since you edited your post, this is hardly the primary example why I think Hillary is one of the worst candidates in the history of the country. The reason is C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N or what some people call crony-capitalism. You mentioned use of military force, so I responded that psychotic Hillary is far more likely to use military force in a frivolous manner than Trump.

Read on Twitter

i don't even think she's great. so you're dealing in bald-faced lies at this point

i'm a fan of the truth. you seem to be a fan of gross hyperbole and outright fabrication

Man of truth? LOL. When you ignore everything that doesn't fit your agenda that's not "truth". So enlighten us - what do you think about Hillary? Do you think she's honest? non-corrupt? Why are you voting for her (other than the party she belongs to)?

[the ultimates]

Is there any real evidence of widespread voter fraud? The various studies say it's not an issue. Voter ID laws are like Apple removing the headphone jack. It's a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

[TimRobbins]

Is there any real evidence of widespread voter fraud? The various studies say it's not an issue. Voter ID laws are like Apple removing the headphone jack. It's a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

I think studying voter fraud in a credible manner is challenging. Nobody really knows how widespread the phenomena is, but I doubt it's meaningful enough to sway and election. So yeah, I agree the problem probably isn't very big.

In any case, I don't believe any other country in the world allows a person to vote without an official state ID. It really doesn't make much sense.

[Bascitball]

Says the guy when I talk about voter fraud, goes and finds an eight year old quote of something Obama said to try and prove that "Democrats believe in voter fraud" when in actuality, BOTH Democrats and Republicans in recent weeks have come out and said that the need for voter ID to "protect" against voter fraud is essentially a Republican voter suppression tactic.

Second, explain to me why Obama's own quote is somehow now off limits. Was he lying then? What voter fraud existed pre-2008 that justified Obama's comments? And what has been done to get rid of those problems? And finally, where was the national outcry about Obama attacking the sanctity and fairness of the election process?

Nobody has touched the bolded point above. While the response will be predictable, I think this is a valid question that deserves to have a reply.

[TheSuzerain]

Is there any real evidence of widespread voter fraud? The various studies say it's not an issue. Voter ID laws are like Apple removing the headphone jack. It's a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

I think studying voter fraud in a credible manner is challenging. Nobody really knows how widespread the phenomena is, but I doubt it's meaningful enough to sway and election. So yeah, I agree the problem probably isn't very big.

In any case, I don't believe any other country in the world allows a person to vote without an official state ID. It really doesn't make much sense.

The United Kingdom.

[the ultimates]

Is there any real evidence of widespread voter fraud? The various studies say it's not an issue. Voter ID laws are like Apple removing the headphone jack. It's a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

I think studying voter fraud in a credible manner is challenging. Nobody really knows how widespread the phenomena is, but I doubt it's meaningful enough to sway and election. So yeah, I agree the problem probably isn't very big.

In any case, I don't believe any other country in the world allows a person to vote without an official state ID. It really doesn't make much sense.

I think with it would be easier to suppress the vote with voter id's than commit voter fraud. I can easily see scenario's where the common misspelling of a name, having apartment 2 instead of 3 or leaving that area blank, people with similar or maybe the same name with different middle initials, people having correct voter id information but getting the run around about where their correct polling place is. Especially considering low turnout usually benefits republicans in national elections and incumbents overall.