NBA Trade Thread #12

[Infinity2152]

The fact that they extended him has everything to do with it. They didn't save $25 mil. They "saved" 10 million (bc Smart makes $21 a year) and gave up a chance at a 1st round pick.

The fact that they extended him has NOTHING to do with his trade value at the time of the trade. Did he have his extension then? Did the extension even exist? Probably wasn't even discussed yet, since he was in trade talks in the first place. At the time he was not traded, he was a $21 mill expiring contract, right or wrong? Meaning adding in Smart plus the cost of the draft pick, At the time of the trade we were adding $22-24 mill of guaranteed money and probably a couple of seconds to have Marcus Smart and the 18th pick. Given that they got 2 seconds plus expirings in their actual trade, refuse to believe they weren't asking for seconds from us unless somebody shows definitive proof of the trade offer.

His "value at the time of the trade?" They extended him the same week they decided not to trade him. From a brief internet search, it looks like they announced the trade the day before the deadline.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2025/02/bulls-lonzo-ball-agree-to-two-year-extension.html#:~:text=The%20second%20year%20of%20the,has%20enjoyed%20a%20successful%20return.

I was hoping it was part of some plan to chase his brother but it really just looks like they misread the value here.

This is actually my biggest concern with AK and my biggest reason I believe he should be fired. He doesn't just misread talent evaluations, we all do. He fails to update his priors based on new info. He did it with Vuc, with Pat and now Ball.

I like Ball. But for a rebuilding team, I think a pick in the teens (which is what it became) is much better value. And he should have known it at the time. That Memphis pick is 6 picks behind the Bulls. 6! He got a get out of jail free card, and blew it.

What I'm saying is, clearly you don't see Ball as a viable player. At all. Not worth $10 mill. At all. The Bulls feel he is worth $10 mill. But they surely hadn't negotiated his extension with him on the trade block. Like, this is the extension we'll give you, unless we trade you this week? There's still $11.6 mill left from the money Smart makes this year, plus $2-3 mill for the rookie. Like I said, that amount allows you to re-sign a player like Tre Jones or any available $10 defensive wing that's available. Or space to trade for them. I know every pick has a chance but what are you really expecting from the 18th pick? You could strike gold, but you could also strike gold, maybe more easily, signing a young player for $13.6 mill that's underrated and has already proven he can play in the league.

And if seconds were included, that shifts the balance even more. That late first had a better chance of success than one second, but probably not much more than the combined chances with two seconds.

Is the player you get at 18 likely to be better than the best player you can trade for or sign in free agency with $13.6 mill and a second or two?

Real talk, we have a lot of young guys. Our core guys, Matas, Giddey, and White are all young. Probably adding a rookie this year. Williams. Smith. Jones. Ayo. Phillips. Terry. I see late draft picks as probable role players, would rather get some vet stars in FA or trade. Not opposed to adding picks, but they're not the Holy Grail for me. At all. Teams are trading 5 picks and 5 picks swaps in trades, and 3 for 1 for first round picks. Don't have the same gloss, lol.

[2weekswithpay]

Lonzo cannot be relied on to play half the season. Even before he came here, he dealt with injuries. He has only played more than 60 games once in his career. The amount of games he's able to play is important. A FRP for Lonzo is a good return, and getting a FRP is a very good reason to trade Lonzo. Marcus Smart would be under contract for one more season, just like Huerter and Zach Collins. We have no money to spend this summer besides the MLE. We aren't losing any flexibility here. Lonzo might as well be untradable if a FRP isn't enough.

Who here would rather have two 2nds over the 18th pick in the draft?

Yes, every Bulls player besides Matas and maybe Giddey should be on the trade block for the right price.

You're talking about a late first round pick is worth taking on $24-25 mill in guaranteed salary. Lonzo was expiring, wasn't he? The fact that we chose to re-sign him was just added value. Versus Smart at $21 mill and a rookie at $3-$4 mill. We chose to re-sign Lonzo to $10 mill, but we could have cleared his entire contract. A late first for $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds is not really a no brainer. How many games Lonzo plays next year has nothing to do with the fact that he was a $21 mill expiring. The contract we re-signed him to is entirely separate.

Who here would rather have an extra $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds vs the 18th pick? Pretty damn sure I can get a player(s) better than whoever the 18th pick ends up being with $25 mill and 2 seconds. That's 3-4 players, probably. How much was Tre Jones again?

Yes, one year of 21.5M in salary is worth it for a FRP. We don't have the money to spend this summer anyway. Yes, this was before the Lonzo extension, but even if we didn't extend Lonzo, we wouldn't have money to spend. The cap for 2025-26 is at 154M, and right now we have 134M in active salary. Remove Lonzo's 10M, and we are 30M under the cap, but all of this money would be used to extend Giddey.

This 25M in cap space doesn't exist unless we let Giddey walk.

[Infinity2152]

Lonzo cannot be relied on to play half the season. Even before he came here, he dealt with injuries. He has only played more than 60 games once in his career. The amount of games he's able to play is important. A FRP for Lonzo is a good return, and getting a FRP is a very good reason to trade Lonzo. Marcus Smart would be under contract for one more season, just like Huerter and Zach Collins. We have no money to spend this summer besides the MLE. We aren't losing any flexibility here. Lonzo might as well be untradable if a FRP isn't enough.

Who here would rather have two 2nds over the 18th pick in the draft?

Yes, every Bulls player besides Matas and maybe Giddey should be on the trade block for the right price.

You're talking about a late first round pick is worth taking on $24-25 mill in guaranteed salary. Lonzo was expiring, wasn't he? The fact that we chose to re-sign him was just added value. Versus Smart at $21 mill and a rookie at $3-$4 mill. We chose to re-sign Lonzo to $10 mill, but we could have cleared his entire contract. A late first for $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds is not really a no brainer. How many games Lonzo plays next year has nothing to do with the fact that he was a $21 mill expiring. The contract we re-signed him to is entirely separate.

Who here would rather have an extra $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds vs the 18th pick? Pretty damn sure I can get a player(s) better than whoever the 18th pick ends up being with $25 mill and 2 seconds. That's 3-4 players, probably. How much was Tre Jones again?

Yes, one year of 21.5M in salary is worth it for a FRP. We don't have the money to spend this summer anyway. Yes, this was before the Lonzo extension, but even if we didn't extend Lonzo, we wouldn't have money to spend. The cap for 2025-26 is at 154M, and right now we have 134M in active salary. Remove Lonzo's 10M, and we are 30M under the cap, but all of this money would be used to extend Giddey.

This 25M in cap space doesn't exist unless we let Giddey walk.

The $24-$25 mill extra space existed on our 2025 cap (y'all keep not adding the cost of the pick) as soon as the trade deadline passed. After the trade dealine, The Chicago Bulls had $24-$25 mill extra dollars that would be available summer 2025. Don't care if that money is used to re-sign Giddey, don't care if $10 mill goes to Ball, don't care if $10 mill is used to re-sign Tre jones. You can turn it however you want. Unless they had previously arranged the extension, there's no way they could guarantee Lonzo would be here next year at the trade deadline. Of course it didn't take long, they've probably been talking all year, but nothing's real until the deadline passes and the extension is signed. If you guys really believe they were negotiating an extension at the same time as they were trading him, more power to you. If the extra $13.6 in space is used to re-sign Giddey, so? That's $13.6 mill in cap space we wouldn't have had.

What they did/do with the money is immaterial. We can argue whether an extra $25 mill in cap space is worth a 18th pick all day long. You think so, i don't. So be it. I've also contended that since they actually received 2 seconds plus expirings, they probably wanted that from us. So now we're talking about taking on all that cap space to get the difference in value of the 18th pick and two second round picks. I've already said, if it was just for Ball, I probably would have done it.

[jnrjr79]

Lonzo cannot be relied on to play half the season. Even before he came here, he dealt with injuries. He has only played more than 60 games once in his career. The amount of games he's able to play is important. A FRP for Lonzo is a good return, and getting a FRP is a very good reason to trade Lonzo. Marcus Smart would be under contract for one more season, just like Huerter and Zach Collins. We have no money to spend this summer besides the MLE. We aren't losing any flexibility here. Lonzo might as well be untradable if a FRP isn't enough.

Who here would rather have two 2nds over the 18th pick in the draft?

Yes, every Bulls player besides Matas and maybe Giddey should be on the trade block for the right price.

You're talking about a late first round pick is worth taking on $24-25 mill in guaranteed salary. Lonzo was expiring, wasn't he? The fact that we chose to re-sign him was just added value. Versus Smart at $21 mill and a rookie at $3-$4 mill. We chose to re-sign Lonzo to $10 mill, but we could have cleared his entire contract. A late first for $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds is not really a no brainer. How many games Lonzo plays next year has nothing to do with the fact that he was a $21 mill expiring. The contract we re-signed him to is entirely separate.

Who here would rather have an extra $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds vs the 18th pick? Pretty damn sure I can get a player(s) better than whoever the 18th pick ends up being with $25 mill and 2 seconds. That's 3-4 players, probably. How much was Tre Jones again?

The cap space thing is a red herring. The Bulls won’t have cap space this summer and Smart would have expired next summer, aligning with the other expirings, and thus being part of the first useful cap space the Bulls could have.

[Infinity2152]

Lonzo cannot be relied on to play half the season. Even before he came here, he dealt with injuries. He has only played more than 60 games once in his career. The amount of games he's able to play is important. A FRP for Lonzo is a good return, and getting a FRP is a very good reason to trade Lonzo. Marcus Smart would be under contract for one more season, just like Huerter and Zach Collins. We have no money to spend this summer besides the MLE. We aren't losing any flexibility here. Lonzo might as well be untradable if a FRP isn't enough.

Who here would rather have two 2nds over the 18th pick in the draft?

Yes, every Bulls player besides Matas and maybe Giddey should be on the trade block for the right price.

You're talking about a late first round pick is worth taking on $24-25 mill in guaranteed salary. Lonzo was expiring, wasn't he? The fact that we chose to re-sign him was just added value. Versus Smart at $21 mill and a rookie at $3-$4 mill. We chose to re-sign Lonzo to $10 mill, but we could have cleared his entire contract. A late first for $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds is not really a no brainer. How many games Lonzo plays next year has nothing to do with the fact that he was a $21 mill expiring. The contract we re-signed him to is entirely separate.

Who here would rather have an extra $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds vs the 18th pick? Pretty damn sure I can get a player(s) better than whoever the 18th pick ends up being with $25 mill and 2 seconds. That's 3-4 players, probably. How much was Tre Jones again?

The cap space thing is a red herring. The Bulls won’t have cap space this summer and Smart would have expired next summer, aligning with the other expirings, and thus being part of the first useful cap space the Bulls could have.

The fact that the Bulls are up against the cap with Giddey's signing makes it worse to add extra cap, not better. If we're at the cap now with re-signing Giddey, where are we with an extra $13.6 mill? Do we want to operate as an over the cap team this season?

[2weekswithpay]

You're talking about a late first round pick is worth taking on $24-25 mill in guaranteed salary. Lonzo was expiring, wasn't he? The fact that we chose to re-sign him was just added value. Versus Smart at $21 mill and a rookie at $3-$4 mill. We chose to re-sign Lonzo to $10 mill, but we could have cleared his entire contract. A late first for $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds is not really a no brainer. How many games Lonzo plays next year has nothing to do with the fact that he was a $21 mill expiring. The contract we re-signed him to is entirely separate.

Who here would rather have an extra $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds vs the 18th pick? Pretty damn sure I can get a player(s) better than whoever the 18th pick ends up being with $25 mill and 2 seconds. That's 3-4 players, probably. How much was Tre Jones again?

The cap space thing is a red herring. The Bulls won’t have cap space this summer and Smart would have expired next summer, aligning with the other expirings, and thus being part of the first useful cap space the Bulls could have.

The fact that the Bulls are up against the cap with Giddey's signing makes it worse to add extra cap, not better. If we're at the cap now with re-signing Giddey, where are we with an extra $13.6 mill?

Unless you have a way to get under the cap, there is little difference between being 13.6M over he cap and at the cap line. You only have money to spend when you're under the cap. All you have is the MLE either way. You'd be closer to the tax with he extra 13.6M, but that shouldn't be an issue

[2weekswithpay]

You're talking about a late first round pick is worth taking on $24-25 mill in guaranteed salary. Lonzo was expiring, wasn't he? The fact that we chose to re-sign him was just added value. Versus Smart at $21 mill and a rookie at $3-$4 mill. We chose to re-sign Lonzo to $10 mill, but we could have cleared his entire contract. A late first for $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds is not really a no brainer. How many games Lonzo plays next year has nothing to do with the fact that he was a $21 mill expiring. The contract we re-signed him to is entirely separate.

Who here would rather have an extra $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds vs the 18th pick? Pretty damn sure I can get a player(s) better than whoever the 18th pick ends up being with $25 mill and 2 seconds. That's 3-4 players, probably. How much was Tre Jones again?

Yes, one year of 21.5M in salary is worth it for a FRP. We don't have the money to spend this summer anyway. Yes, this was before the Lonzo extension, but even if we didn't extend Lonzo, we wouldn't have money to spend. The cap for 2025-26 is at 154M, and right now we have 134M in active salary. Remove Lonzo's 10M, and we are 30M under the cap, but all of this money would be used to extend Giddey.

This 25M in cap space doesn't exist unless we let Giddey walk.

The $24-$25 mill extra space existed on our 2026 cap (y'all keep not adding the cost of the pick) as soon as the trade deadline passed. After the trade dealine, The Chicago Bulls had $24-$25 mill extra dollars that would be available summer 2025. Don't care if that money is used to re-sign Giddey, don't care if $10 mill goes to Ball, don't care if $10 mill is used to re-sign Tre jones. You can turn it however you want. Unless they had previously arranged the extension, there's no way they could guarantee Lonzo would be here next year at the trade deadline. Of course it didn't take long, they've probably been talking all year, but nothing's real until the deadline passes and the extension is signed. If you guys really believe they were negotiating an extension at the same time as they were trading him, more power to you. If the extra $13.6 in space is used to re-sign Giddey, so? That's $13.6 mill in cap space we wouldn't have had.

What they did/do with the money is immaterial. We can argue whether an extra $25 mill in cap space is worth a 18th pick all day long. You think so, i don't. So be it. I've also contended that since they actually received 2 seconds plus expirings, they probably wanted that from us. So now we're talking about taking on all that cap space to get the difference in value of the 18th pick and two second round picks. I've already said, if it was just for Ball, I probably would have done it.

Show me the extra 25M that we have to spend.

[jnrjr79]

You're talking about a late first round pick is worth taking on $24-25 mill in guaranteed salary. Lonzo was expiring, wasn't he? The fact that we chose to re-sign him was just added value. Versus Smart at $21 mill and a rookie at $3-$4 mill. We chose to re-sign Lonzo to $10 mill, but we could have cleared his entire contract. A late first for $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds is not really a no brainer. How many games Lonzo plays next year has nothing to do with the fact that he was a $21 mill expiring. The contract we re-signed him to is entirely separate.

Who here would rather have an extra $25 mill in cap space plus two seconds vs the 18th pick? Pretty damn sure I can get a player(s) better than whoever the 18th pick ends up being with $25 mill and 2 seconds. That's 3-4 players, probably. How much was Tre Jones again?

The cap space thing is a red herring. The Bulls won’t have cap space this summer and Smart would have expired next summer, aligning with the other expirings, and thus being part of the first useful cap space the Bulls could have.

The fact that the Bulls are up against the cap with Giddey's signing makes it worse to add extra cap, not better. If we're at the cap now with re-signing Giddey, where are we with an extra $13.6 mill? Do we want to operate as an over the cap team this season?

Yes, I assume the Bulls want to operate as an over-the-cap team and have access to the full MLE.

[jnrjr79]

The cap space thing is a red herring. The Bulls won’t have cap space this summer and Smart would have expired next summer, aligning with the other expirings, and thus being part of the first useful cap space the Bulls could have.

The fact that the Bulls are up against the cap with Giddey's signing makes it worse to add extra cap, not better. If we're at the cap now with re-signing Giddey, where are we with an extra $13.6 mill?

Unless you have a way to get under the cap, there is little difference between being 13.6M over he cap and at the cap line. You only have money to spend when you're under the cap. All you have is the MLE either way. You'd be closer to the tax with he extra 13.6M, but that shouldn't be an issue

Not exactly true, because if you go under the cap, you only get the room exception rather than the full MLE, so in situations where you are close, it can actually be advantageous to operate as an above-the-cap team to have access to the larger full MLE.

[sco]

Cap space isn't an important consideration this offseason. All I'm looking for out of the offseason is:

1) We get a very good draft pick
2) We resign Jones
3) We retain Giddey on a deal for $30M or less
4) We trade Vuc, even for a contracts that extend an extra year, if we can get rid of him for nothing, so much the better

[Infinity2152]

You guys got it. $21-$25 mill extra mill in contracts means nothing in team building. Therefore, Pat's contract doesn't hurt us, since getting rid of his contract does nothing for us. Why even get rid of Carter? Why was the call so loud to trade Lavine? Why trade Vucevic? Show the cap space we got from that $40 mill trade. All of a sudden, money doesn't matter, though we've been complaining about contracts ad nauseum.

Guys are being ridiculous. Trying to qualify how we use the cap savings from not taking that trade as the important factor of what we gained by not making the trade. Easy to say cap space means nothing this off season when you have pretty much zero ideas of the Bulls plans, outside of probably re-signing Giddey. Or what our actual cap situation will be to start the season. Is Coby taking the extension? Will Huerter, Collins and Vucevic start the season or be traded? Exact money trade, do we take extra money or give it? Where are we picking, how much will our draft pick cost? Do we plan to use any/all our exceptions? Where would our cap be using all available exceptions plus $13.6 mill? Creating cap space and using it is fluid, every dollar counts. We're all guessing here and have way less idea about the Bulls cap/trade plans than the front office.

And we already used $10 mill of the cap space that was available. It's Lonzo Ball's contract. Bulls signed a player for $10 mill/yr with an option year with that money. Who cares if people in here think its a good idea, the Bulls did. Again, if we re-sign Tre Jones with $10 of what's left, I'd consider Ball and Jones plus 2 second round picks a better deal than Smart and pick 18 for $2-3 mill more and Smart expiring.

Have said 100 times that Ball at $10 mill with an option is a great deal. You're incredibly free to disagree. It's possible the 18th pick is better than Tre Jones. Average 18 pick has 5% chance of becoming a star, 15% solid starter, 25% role player, 40% deep bench, and 15% bust. So 80% chance of being a role player or worse. Tre Jones is already solid role player and can improve.

https://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

Don't understand how people are SO SURE that Marcus Smart and the 18th pick nobody knows about will be better for the Bulls than Lonzo Ball plus Tre Jones or a $10 mill defensive wing. Especially since, outside the on court play (where Ball is superior to Smart), Smart can be disruptive and Ball's a team player beloved by the team. Did I mention that Smart played 34 games last season, and 20 the season before? Talking about how many games Ball will play when Smart played less games last year, lmao! Let's pay $21 mill for a guy to play 34 games, instead of $10 mill. But we got that 18 pick probable role player, minus the two possible role players we could have gotten with those seconds and the extra $10 mill player.

Lastly, what in the world would make anybody think Lonzo's value has decreased since the deadline? His contract is lower with an option year. And unlike this year, next season he will have actually played 30 games the previous season and probably quite a few games before the deadline. Why couldn't we do the same trade this off season, or next season? Would rather that pick be a future first anyway, as full as our roster is right now.

[Chi town]

Cap space isn't an important consideration this offseason. All I'm looking for out of the offseason is:

1) We get a very good draft pick
2) We resign Jones
3) We retain Giddey on a deal for $30M or less
4) We trade Vuc, even for a contracts that extend an extra year, if we can get rid of him for nothing, so much the better

Bingo! Exactly what I’m hoping for. I’d add in trading POR pick or Ayo for Beringer, our future C.

[Infinity2152]

Cap space means flexibility to me. Particularly important with a team like the Bulls, who are VERY cap conscious. Not looking for us to do anything big this summer, but I would also like them to re-sign Jones. That probably doesn't happen with the Smart trade. Continuity and chemistry is important imo, especially dealing with young players. Any player on the Bulls could be traded, but I'd like to avoid wholesale team swapping. Agree with Sco and Chi on what they'd like to see this summer. Bulls players have to be nervous asl, only players reasonably sure to be on this team more than a year, or even this season, are Matas and Giddey. Can't be good for chemistry, even for Matas and Giddey.

Believe it's not just sentimental reason to think that Ball/Smart trade is not a no-brainer. They received expirings and 2 seconds for that deal, I refuse to believe they would accept less from us without proof. Doesn't make sense. 2 seconds going their way makes the deal impractical. You actually have a better total chance of drafting a star or solid player with two high seconds than the 18th pick. And I believe Ball is good for this team right now, more than just his play. That's not sentimental, he could easily be the only vet left with a Vuc trade and he seems like a calm, steadying guy. I'd invest $10 mill in a steadying vet for this young team with no problems, call it an investment in their development. Very few other guys in the league I'd prefer to mentor Josh Giddey. Definitely not Smart. I've seen him ejected from a game he wasn't even playing in, in street clothes, lmao!

[jnrjr79]

Cap space means flexibility to me. Particularly important with a team like the Bulls, who are VERY cap conscious. Not looking for us to do anything big this summer, but I would also like them to re-sign Jones. That probably doesn't happen with the Smart trade. Continuity and chemistry is important imo, especially dealing with young players. Any player on the Bulls could be traded, but I'd like to avoid wholesale team swapping. Agree with Sco and Chi on what they'd like to see this summer. Bulls players have to be nervous asl, only players reasonably sure to be on this team more than a year, or even this season, are Matas and Giddey. Can't be good for chemistry, even for Matas and Giddey.

Believe it's not just sentimental reason to think that Ball/Smart trade is not a no-brainer. They received expirings and 2 seconds for that deal, I refuse to believe they would accept less from us without proof. Doesn't make sense. 2 seconds going their way makes the deal impractical. You actually have a better total chance of drafting a star or solid player with two high seconds than the 18th pick. And I believe Ball is good for this team right now, more than just his play. That's not sentimental, he could easily be the only vet left with a Vuc trade and he seems like a calm, steadying guy. I'd invest $10 mill in a steadying vet for this young team with no problems, call it an investment in their development. Very few other guys in the league I'd prefer to mentor Josh Giddey. Definitely not Smart. I've seen him ejected from a game he wasn't even playing in, in street clothes, lmao!

You keep making reference to "cap space" when discussing a potential trade that would not have an impact on cap space, which I think is the source of the confusion here.

You're also making the wrong point that the Bulls are cap conscious. They are not and never have been. They are tax conscious, but taking on Smart for one year would not have an impact on luxury tax, given where the Bulls are with their contracts.

I'm fine with the Bulls retaining Ball and am happy they have him on a very tradeable, team-friendly deal. The fact that the Smart trade that actually happened required two 2nds coming back diminishes the appeal of that hypothetical option that may have existed. So, I don't have any quibble with defending the Bulls not doing it, but the reasons you seem most focused on (cap space) is just inapplicable. The Bulls right now look like they'd be in worse shape if they opened up some cap space, because the amount they would project to open wouldn't be worth losing the full MLE.

[sco]

Just farting around with ways to be rid of Vuc. I doubt LAL goes for this now because they need more defense at C than pre-Luka, but how about Vuc/Terry for Vandy/Kleber? $ work in fanspo. I'd gladly gift them our 2nd rounder to make the deal happen. Vandy is the prize, and may be gettable after an injury plagued year and the fact that LA has a similar guy now in DFS.

[sco]

Another unrelated idea. Anyone thing that SAC would trade Murray for Ball and POR 1st?

[kodo]

Just farting around with ways to be rid of Vuc. I doubt LAL goes for this now because they need more defense at C than pre-Luka, but how about Vuc/Terry for Vandy/Kleber? $ work in fanspo. I'd gladly gift them our 2nd rounder to make the deal happen. Vandy is the prize, and may be gettable after an injury plagued year and the fact that LA has a similar guy now in DFS.

I can't think of a single team that would want Vuc. All playoff teams need & use a rim protector at center except GS who don't play with a center, and a rim protector has got to be at the top of their priority list next season. All non-playoff teams wouldn't be interested because he's too old for a young rebuilding team. He has no value as an expiring because to be valuable as an expiring the Bulls have to take on a long term bad contract, which we shouldn't do.

I'm ready for another full year of Vucevic as starting center, and another year of players like Tyler Herro just destroying us by driving to the rim for layups all game long or embarrassing Huerter in iso.

My only slim hope for a Vuc trade is that it seems he wants to move on, and I think AKBilly don't want locker room problems. So they may dump him for effectively just similar salary back even if it's a loss, like they did with Lavine.

[Infinity2152]

Cap space means flexibility to me. Particularly important with a team like the Bulls, who are VERY cap conscious. Not looking for us to do anything big this summer, but I would also like them to re-sign Jones. That probably doesn't happen with the Smart trade. Continuity and chemistry is important imo, especially dealing with young players. Any player on the Bulls could be traded, but I'd like to avoid wholesale team swapping. Agree with Sco and Chi on what they'd like to see this summer. Bulls players have to be nervous asl, only players reasonably sure to be on this team more than a year, or even this season, are Matas and Giddey. Can't be good for chemistry, even for Matas and Giddey.

Believe it's not just sentimental reason to think that Ball/Smart trade is not a no-brainer. They received expirings and 2 seconds for that deal, I refuse to believe they would accept less from us without proof. Doesn't make sense. 2 seconds going their way makes the deal impractical. You actually have a better total chance of drafting a star or solid player with two high seconds than the 18th pick. And I believe Ball is good for this team right now, more than just his play. That's not sentimental, he could easily be the only vet left with a Vuc trade and he seems like a calm, steadying guy. I'd invest $10 mill in a steadying vet for this young team with no problems, call it an investment in their development. Very few other guys in the league I'd prefer to mentor Josh Giddey. Definitely not Smart. I've seen him ejected from a game he wasn't even playing in, in street clothes, lmao!

You keep making reference to "cap space" when discussing a potential trade that would not have an impact on cap space, which I think is the source of the confusion here.

You're also making the wrong point that the Bulls are cap conscious. They are not and never have been. They are tax conscious, but taking on Smart for one year would not have an impact on luxury tax, given where the Bulls are with their contracts.

I'm fine with the Bulls retaining Ball and am happy they have him on a very tradeable, team-friendly deal. The fact that the Smart trade that actually happened required two 2nds coming back diminishes the appeal of that hypothetical option that may have existed. So, I don't have any quibble with defending the Bulls not doing it, but the reasons you seem most focused on (cap space) is just inapplicable. The Bulls right now look like they'd be in worse shape if they opened up some cap space, because the amount they would project to open wouldn't be worth losing the full MLE.

I specifically said cap space means flexibility to me. i don't know how to argue that a team with $14 mill less on the books has more flexibility than a team that has an extra $14 mill. Like if the Bulls are trading for a max player, and that trade would put us $5 mill into the tax with the Smart contract on the books. Or we could have simply not re-signed Ball. There's a salary cap. We try to stay under it. Having two less players on the roster (Smart 18) and $24 mill less in guaranteed salaries gives us more flexibility to do trades and stay under the cap. Having two players like Ball at $10 mill and Tre Jones at $10 mill gives us more flexibility than Smart at $21 mill and a rookie we're not going to trade for four years, no matter how bad he is, imo.

I'm not talking about cap space in terms of pure available space to sign free agents, but trade flexibility. Working under the cap. they can work over the cap either way, Ball and Tre Jones and another $3-4 mill player still have more value to the Bulls and as trade pieces than Smart and that rookie at the same price most probably.

Going to repeat for like the fourth time, if it was just Ball for Smart and 1st, I'd probably do it, but those seconds push it over the top. So make all your arguments include the fact that we're giving up 2 seconds in the deal (not you specifically, lol). Anybody who wouldn't include those picks shouldn't be arguing, that's a different price.

[ChettheJet]

Another unrelated idea. Anyone thing that SAC would trade Murray for Ball and POR 1st?

I'm opposed to trading Ball but I'd consider this more than SA would. You got to have a wild imagination that the mythical PORT pick is going to show up. Do they want to look at their roster and say, yeah 3 former Chicago Bulls is our path to victory. If they wanted one more Bulls I'd want Ayo to come off the bench behind Lavine, Monk and Carter with the hope that Ayo wants to resign and then draft a PG. That's if they don't try to shake things up and move DeRozan.

I like the prospect of Matas, Murray and Williams filling most of the forward minutes.

[sco]

Just farting around with ways to be rid of Vuc. I doubt LAL goes for this now because they need more defense at C than pre-Luka, but how about Vuc/Terry for Vandy/Kleber? $ work in fanspo. I'd gladly gift them our 2nd rounder to make the deal happen. Vandy is the prize, and may be gettable after an injury plagued year and the fact that LA has a similar guy now in DFS.

I can't think of a single team that would want Vuc. All playoff teams need & use a rim protector at center except GS who don't play with a center, and a rim protector has got to be at the top of their priority list next season. All non-playoff teams wouldn't be interested because he's too old for a young rebuilding team. He has no value as an expiring because to be valuable as an expiring the Bulls have to take on a long term bad contract, which we shouldn't do.

I'm ready for another full year of Vucevic as starting center, and another year of players like Tyler Herro just destroying us by driving to the rim for layups all game long or embarrassing Huerter in iso.

My only slim hope for a Vuc trade is that it seems he wants to move on, and I think AKBilly don't want locker room problems. So they may dump him for effectively just similar salary back even if it's a loss, like they did with Lavine.

Yeah, I'm with you. Vuc did make some comments along the lines of a potential change may happen during his exit interview. I'm not sure how much he could fetch as a FA...I'm thinking best case $5M, but wonder if that is enough of an incentive for a buyout discounted by that much? Doubt we could find anyone to save us $5M in a trade or get back anyone truly useful.