2025 Draft prospects - thread 3

[TheSuzerain]

i fear ak passing on jakucionis would end up like garpax passing on haliburton...the dangers of developing A Type as a gm

Jaku seems a much worse prospect than Haliburton.

There should be better options.

[nomorezorro]

i was just joking about the iowa state / lithuanian + local ties draft patterns

[TheJordanRule]

i fear ak passing on jakucionis would end up like garpax passing on haliburton...the dangers of developing A Type as a gm

Jaku seems a much worse prospect than Haliburton.

There should be better options.

I'm curious why you think there would be better options at #12, brother. The biggest questionmark on Jaku is whether he has the athleticism to do it at this level, and those tests at the Combine prove he does. Jaku doesn't have to be Haliburton to be worth picking up at #12. Unless Maluach is also available, passing on Jaku comes across as a big mistake. I know we're guard heavy, but I'm a fan of drafting the BPA. What's your other concern about Jaku?

[Jcool0]

i fear ak passing on jakucionis would end up like garpax passing on haliburton...the dangers of developing A Type as a gm

Jaku seems a much worse prospect than Haliburton.

There should be better options.

How so?

Haliburton last 10 games of his 2nd year: 12.3 ppg, 5.4 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 3.2 TOV. 6'5", 175lbs

Jakucionis last 10 games of his 1st year: 12.7 ppg. 6 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 4 TOV. 6'6", 205lbs

[DuckIII]

other notes from the latest ESPN mock:

-we've worked out beringer (has this been reported already? it was news to me)
-doesn't list us as a team "closely linked" to carter bryant (suns, blazers, hawks mentioned)
-other teams think we're interested in demin (alongside toronto, portland and brooklyn)
-cedric coward is getting a "long look" from us (and phoenix, san antonio and okc. coward is workig out for memphis today, and teams think he'll be gone by 20)
-says we could be interested in any of the center prospects

This is all good news. Very happy we worked out Beringer. Bryant is on my list, but low on the list. Demin, I support, but I just don't "feel it" the closer we get to the draft in the sense I just don't see the Bulls going that direction. Which has always been fine with me, but so is drafting him. On paper Coward makes sense. And we need a center.

Speaking of centers, even though he's not "my guy" Sorber continues to grow on me the closer we get to the draft. I really want someone super mobile at the 5, but Sorber is "mobile enough" given his wide range of other positives. I don't see a star, but I see a long term answer at an important position.

Beringer might be criminally underrated. Only 4 years of playing basketball, super mobile to the point of being able to defend all 5 positions, strong finisher, rim runner, rim defender, fast learner, etc. If Maluach and KJ ain't there, Beringer might be the best way to go. Agreed on Demin. Not a good fit with Giddey. I rarely ever disagree with you, brother, but I don't like Sorber. As bad as Vuce is, I still don't long for the days of WCJ. Those French kids impress me. Beringer or Traore as a worst case scenario comforts tf outta me. How deep is this draft?!

Thanks! A couple of things. First, on Sorber, I get the WCJ comps. The thing with WCJ is I still think as a prospect he was very solid. To me, he's a less extreme version of P-Will, not an undesirable player type. His primary issues were mental and emotional, which kept him from maximizing his talent. If Sorber has dog in him, and a great attitude, being comparable to WCJ as a type does not bother me at all. Its not exactly what I'm looking for (more on that in a moment), but I would understand the pick. If I can objectively "understand" a pick, even if I don't agree with it, I don't get too worked up. That's what I'm saying about Sorber. He's not my guy, but I'll be okay with it if we take him and be patient.

As for the 5 I prefer, its Beringer. I think in pure uspide you can make an argument that, if everyone in draft were to hypothetically hit their peak, he'd end up the 4th best player in the whole draft. More importantly, outside of designing a perfect player, he's pretty much the prototype center you want with Giddey and Matas. And thinking super optimistically, the type of guy you want in 5 years when you have to play the Spurs or Thunder in the Finals with Wemby or Chet out there.

The problem is, his offense is a complete unknown and has to be developed virtually from scratch. His "upside" journey is a whole lot longer than lots of guys who will be available. I'm okay with that. But I also happen to believe we are nowhere near being good enough and should slow roll this for at least two full seasons. I'm fine waiting until year 3 for an impactful Beringer.

[TheJordanRule]

This is all good news. Very happy we worked out Beringer. Bryant is on my list, but low on the list. Demin, I support, but I just don't "feel it" the closer we get to the draft in the sense I just don't see the Bulls going that direction. Which has always been fine with me, but so is drafting him. On paper Coward makes sense. And we need a center.

Speaking of centers, even though he's not "my guy" Sorber continues to grow on me the closer we get to the draft. I really want someone super mobile at the 5, but Sorber is "mobile enough" given his wide range of other positives. I don't see a star, but I see a long term answer at an important position.

Beringer might be criminally underrated. Only 4 years of playing basketball, super mobile to the point of being able to defend all 5 positions, strong finisher, rim runner, rim defender, fast learner, etc. If Maluach and KJ ain't there, Beringer might be the best way to go. Agreed on Demin. Not a good fit with Giddey. I rarely ever disagree with you, brother, but I don't like Sorber. As bad as Vuce is, I still don't long for the days of WCJ. Those French kids impress me. Beringer or Traore as a worst case scenario comforts tf outta me. How deep is this draft?!

Thanks! A couple of things. First, on Sorber, I get the WCJ comps. The thing with WCJ is I still think as a prospect he was very solid. To me, he's a less extreme version of P-Will, not an undesirable player type. His primary issues were mental and emotional, which kept him from maximizing his talent. If Sorber has dog in him, and a great attitude, being comparable to WCJ as a type does not bother me at all. Its not exactly what I'm looking for (more on that in a moment), but I would understand the pick. If I can objectively "understand" a pick, even if I don't agree with it, I don't get too worked up. That's what I'm saying about Sorber. He's not my guy, but I'll be okay with it if we take him and be patient.

As for the 5 I prefer, its Beringer. I think in pure uspide you can make an argument that, if everyone in draft were to hypothetically hit their peak, he'd end up the 4th best player in the whole draft. More importantly, outside of designing a perfect player, he's pretty much the prototype center you want with Giddey and Matas. And thinking super optimistically, the type of guy you want in 5 years when you have to play the Spurs or Thunder in the Finals with Wemby or Chet out there.

The problem is, his offense is a complete unknown and has to be developed virtually from scratch. His "upside" journey is a whole lot longer than lots of guys who will be available. I'm okay with that. But I also happen to believe we are nowhere near being good enough and should slow roll this for at least two full seasons. I'm fine waiting until year 3 for an impactful Beringer.

Until last season, we had acquired exactly zero core players Duck. Now that Giddey and Buz showed up and showed out, it's a start but not much further along the timeline. I think we could end up tricking ourselves due to the impressive progression-- I mean we maxed out what we could do last year in terms of adding core players. I'm impressed with the new energy coming from the FO. While the overall body of work hasn't been up to par, last year was a freakin eagle. If we can add Beringer and an impact player from free agency, then the FO would have greatly boosted our team up once again. I hope it happens. To have Buz and Beringer playing together would be exciting on the defensive end. And I know Beringer ain't polished on offense, but I would love to have two legit rim runners on the floor who can burn the defense for easy alleyoops. That feeds right into Giddey's wheelhouse. You say you prefer Beringer, period. Over Maluach? I agree that Beringer has more potential than Maluach, but Maluach is the safer play. More proven production. Further along, etc. And Maluach certainly has upside of his own. People often compare him to SA's Poetle, but after our extended experience with Vuce, I'm willing to settle for a Poetle.

[Chi town]

Beringer can absolutely fly up and down the court. Relentless motor. He’d get two easy dunks a night with Giddey.

Will be shocked if AK drafts Beringer.

Beringer’s D will play backup mins year one. His offense will be limited to dunks until probably year 3.

Duck, what do you see his ceiling as? Fast Gobert?

[sco]

Beringer can absolutely fly up and down the court. Relentless motor. He’d get two easy dunks a night with Giddey.

Will be shocked if AK drafts Beringer.

Beringer’s D will play backup mins year one. His offense will be limited to dunks until probably year 3.

Duck, what do you see his ceiling as? Fast Gobert?

Sorta reminds me of a Gafford.

[CobysHairpick]

Maybe it's just me, but can we not draft someone who just started playing basketball 4-6 years ago? There's plenty of solid prospects to draft other than a basic rim running center whose skillset can be found just about every year in the draft and free agency.

[TheJordanRule]

Maybe it's just me, but can we not draft someone who just started playing basketball 4-6 years ago? There's plenty of solid prospects to draft other than a basic rim running center whose skillset can be found just about every year in the draft and free agency.

No brother, the "basic" rim running, rim protecting center is something we have lacked for at least half a decade. We need a beast in the middle who isn't gonna let the team defense slump as often as it does right now. And at #12, we'd be lucky in most drafts to find anything at all, much less a starting center ( Maluach) or massive upside off the bench guy (Beringer).

[CobysHairpick]

Maybe it's just me, but can we not draft someone who just started playing basketball 4-6 years ago? There's plenty of solid prospects to draft other than a basic rim running center whose skillset can be found just about every year in the draft and free agency.

No brother, the "basic" rim running, rim protecting center is something we have lacked for at least half a decade. We need a beast in the middle who isn't gonna let the team defense slump as often as it does right now. And at #12, we'd be lucky in most drafts to find anything at all, much less a starting center ( Maluach) or massive upside off the bench guy (Beringer).

Do you think Maluach or Beringer will be better than Andre Drummond? Do you really think you can win in today's NBA with a non shooting center? Maluach I understand the dream of him developing a jumpshot based on his play during the Olympics however farfetched I believe it is. Beringer I just don't see the point. The Mavs have Dereck Lively who is a favorable comp for Beringer yet they realized they needed more than just a rim runner on offense at center on top of whatever defense related excuses they had for trading Luka, hence specifically targeting AD.

This archetype is great as an energy big off the bench, but Kristaps, Chet, Turner, KAT, Jokic, etc. have shown that your big needs to be a viable threat from deep to be a serious contender. And I think you're underestimating the 12th pick. With how we've seen today's stars be drafted at all points in the draft, it's foolish to dismiss it. Just depends on drafting the right prospect.

[TheJordanRule]

Maybe it's just me, but can we not draft someone who just started playing basketball 4-6 years ago? There's plenty of solid prospects to draft other than a basic rim running center whose skillset can be found just about every year in the draft and free agency.

No brother, the "basic" rim running, rim protecting center is something we have lacked for at least half a decade. We need a beast in the middle who isn't gonna let the team defense slump as often as it does right now. And at #12, we'd be lucky in most drafts to find anything at all, much less a starting center ( Maluach) or massive upside off the bench guy (Beringer).

Do you think Maluach or Beringer will be better than Andre Drummond? Do you really think you can win in today's NBA with a non shooting center? Maluach I understand the dream of him developing a jumpshot based on his play during the Olympics however farfetched I believe it is. Beringer I just don't see the point. The Mavs have Dereck Lively who is a favorable comp for Beringer yet they realized they needed more than just a rim runner on offense at center on top of whatever defense related excuses they had for trading Luka, hence specifically targeting AD.

This archetype is great as an energy big off the bench, but Kristaps, Chet, Turner, KAT, Jokic, etc. have shown that your big needs to be a viable threat from deep to be a serious contender. And I think you're underestimating the 12th pick. With how we've seen today's stars be drafted at all points in the draft, it's foolish to dismiss it. Just depends on drafting the right prospect.

The Mavs let go of Lively only because they also have our previous rim runner and rim protector from 5 years ago in Daniel Gafford. I won't deny that the elite centers are two way guys who can shoot on offense, but defensively focused guys like Rudy Gobert and Ivica Zubac do a lot more than the sum of their parts for a team's ability to win. The game has evolved, yes, and guys like The Joker, Embiid, Wemby and AD can shoot it sweetly from all over the floor but defense is still at a premium considering that it's what's needed at least half the time people are on the floor.I would rather have Beringer or Maluach covering those guys than anyone else we have on our roster right now.

[CobysHairpick]

No brother, the "basic" rim running, rim protecting center is something we have lacked for at least half a decade. We need a beast in the middle who isn't gonna let the team defense slump as often as it does right now. And at #12, we'd be lucky in most drafts to find anything at all, much less a starting center ( Maluach) or massive upside off the bench guy (Beringer).

Do you think Maluach or Beringer will be better than Andre Drummond? Do you really think you can win in today's NBA with a non shooting center? Maluach I understand the dream of him developing a jumpshot based on his play during the Olympics however farfetched I believe it is. Beringer I just don't see the point. The Mavs have Dereck Lively who is a favorable comp for Beringer yet they realized they needed more than just a rim runner on offense at center on top of whatever defense related excuses they had for trading Luka, hence specifically targeting AD.

This archetype is great as an energy big off the bench, but Kristaps, Chet, Turner, KAT, Jokic, etc. have shown that your big needs to be a viable threat from deep to be a serious contender. And I think you're underestimating the 12th pick. With how we've seen today's stars be drafted at all points in the draft, it's foolish to dismiss it. Just depends on drafting the right prospect.

The Mavs let go of Lively only because they also have our previous rim runner and rim protector from 5 years ago in Daniel Gafford. I won't deny that the elite centers are two way guys who can shoot on offense, but defensively focused guys like Rudy Gobert and Ivica Zubac do a lot more than the sum of their parts for a team's ability to win. The game has evolved, yes, and guys like The Joker, Embiid, Wemby and AD can shoot it sweetly from all over the floor but defense is still at a premium considering that it's what's needed at least half the time people are on the floor.I would rather have Beringer or Maluach covering those guys than anyone else we have on our roster right now.

Gobert has historically been played off the floor in the playoffs so I don't think he's a good example of who to target at center. Spending the 12th pick purely for a defensive center is asking for a prolonged rebuild IMO. My whole point is that you can acquire defensive minded bigs just about every year. What you can't always acquire is a legitimate high ceiling so give me the highest one at 12.

[2weekswithpay]

I'm not seeing the massive upside in Beringer. Gobert is the only rim running center to play at an All-NBA level in recent years. He has a lot in common with Jarrett Allen, but Allen is one of the few to become an All-Star. A lot of the toolsy, athletic bigs don't pan out. Jaxson Hayes and Kai Jones are barely hanging in the league.

[2weekswithpay]

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[MGB8]

i fear ak passing on jakucionis would end up like garpax passing on haliburton...the dangers of developing A Type as a gm

Jaku seems a much worse prospect than Haliburton.

There should be better options.

I disagree - the combination of quick lateral movement off ball, herky jerk skill on ball, and bball IQ plus a shot that I believe in … means n likely to be better options there if he is available:

Watch on YouTube

[TheSuzerain]

i fear ak passing on jakucionis would end up like garpax passing on haliburton...the dangers of developing A Type as a gm

Jaku seems a much worse prospect than Haliburton.

There should be better options.

I disagree - the combination of quick lateral movement off ball, herky jerk skill on ball, and bball IQ plus a shot that I believe in … means n likely to be better options there if he is available:

Watch on YouTube

At some point, you're just filling up too many lineup slots with guys who aren't hounds on the perimeter defensively.

You can overlook that if someone is an outlier offensive talent (by NBA standards), but I don't see that with KJ (more like he fits in).

[Dan Z]

Do you think Maluach or Beringer will be better than Andre Drummond? Do you really think you can win in today's NBA with a non shooting center? Maluach I understand the dream of him developing a jumpshot based on his play during the Olympics however farfetched I believe it is. Beringer I just don't see the point. The Mavs have Dereck Lively who is a favorable comp for Beringer yet they realized they needed more than just a rim runner on offense at center on top of whatever defense related excuses they had for trading Luka, hence specifically targeting AD.

This archetype is great as an energy big off the bench, but Kristaps, Chet, Turner, KAT, Jokic, etc. have shown that your big needs to be a viable threat from deep to be a serious contender. And I think you're underestimating the 12th pick. With how we've seen today's stars be drafted at all points in the draft, it's foolish to dismiss it. Just depends on drafting the right prospect.

The Mavs let go of Lively only because they also have our previous rim runner and rim protector from 5 years ago in Daniel Gafford. I won't deny that the elite centers are two way guys who can shoot on offense, but defensively focused guys like Rudy Gobert and Ivica Zubac do a lot more than the sum of their parts for a team's ability to win. The game has evolved, yes, and guys like The Joker, Embiid, Wemby and AD can shoot it sweetly from all over the floor but defense is still at a premium considering that it's what's needed at least half the time people are on the floor.I would rather have Beringer or Maluach covering those guys than anyone else we have on our roster right now.

Gobert has historically been played off the floor in the playoffs so I don't think he's a good example of who to target at center. Spending the 12th pick purely for a defensive center is asking for a prolonged rebuild IMO. My whole point is that you can acquire defensive minded bigs just about every year. What you can't always acquire is a legitimate high ceiling so give me the highest one at 12.

I agree...I wouldn't spend the 12th pick on him. Maybe Sorber (for the reasons Ducks stated), but I think we can do better at 12.

If the Bulls can get a late pick, and he's available, then sure...draft Beringer.

[Dan Z]

Jaku seems a much worse prospect than Haliburton.

There should be better options.

I disagree - the combination of quick lateral movement off ball, herky jerk skill on ball, and bball IQ plus a shot that I believe in … means n likely to be better options there if he is available:

Watch on YouTube

At some point, you're just filling up too many lineup slots with guys who aren't hounds on the perimeter defensively.

You can overlook that if someone is an outlier offensive talent (by NBA standards), but I don't see that with KJ (more like he fits in).

The Bulls need to take BPA and worry about the other stuff later. The team needs as much talent as it can get.

[MGB8]

Jaku seems a much worse prospect than Haliburton.

There should be better options.

I disagree - the combination of quick lateral movement off ball, herky jerk skill on ball, and bball IQ plus a shot that I believe in … means n likely to be better options there if he is available:

Watch on YouTube

At some point, you're just filling up too many lineup slots with guys who aren't hounds on the perimeter defensively.

You can overlook that if someone is an outlier offensive talent (by NBA standards), but I don't see that with KJ (more like he fits in).

He’s a feisty gamer on D and I think his offense will not only translate, but improve with the greater space in the NBA. I don’t see him as a PG - I see him as a SG who can play some (limited) point for you if you need it. Herro may be a good comp, but KJ slightly bigger (including over 3 inch wingspan advantage). A Coby White hedge, where Coby staying is not guaranteed, and KJ, being bigger but similarly laterally quick, may ultimately defend better on the perimeter.