Way too early NBA draft thread 2021

[StunnerKO]

Moore isn’t 6’4 btw he’s listed at 6’3 he shrunk after they got the new height and weight requirement for the league . I don’t think Ayo is 6’6 but I think he might be close to it . Moore is a better shooter than Ayo but other than living near the Chicago area that’s as much of a comparison I’m giving them

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Who DOES Ayo compare to physically and athletically?

I’ve heard Jrue. Anyone else?

[TheSuzerain]

Yea not seeing the Moore comp at all tho big difference in a 6’3 guard and someone who is nearly 6’6. They don’t even play the same at all

Moore is 6'4" with a 6'9" wingspan. Ayo is reportedly 6'5" with a 6'9" wingspan.

And this was Moore in college

Watch on YouTube

Pretty clearly a more advanced shooter than Ayo. He played off-ball next to a playmaking guard, so didn't have as much opportunity to wrack up assists. Ayo better physically and thus more of a threat on the drive.

A problem Ayo is going to have is the same issue Kris Dunn encountered in that the bar to clear to be an on-ball NBA player is extremely high from a talent perspective (unless you're the Bulls with Coby ).

If/when you fail to clear that hurdle, you start playing a lot off-ball. And that immediately turned Kris Dunn into a liability offensively. Now I don't think Ayo is dead in the water from that perspective. He could pull it off. But I wouldn't say it necessarily plays to his college strengths.

Geez, your comparisons on Ayo are so far off. As Duck mentioned, Ayo plays nothing like Moore like at all. Ayo actually shoots at a better % this year than Moore did from 3. Ayo can play off the ball. Ayo is a much better mid-range and 3 point shooter than Dunn and stats show such for college too. Free throw shot and Ayo is not nearly the defender/vertical athlete Dunn is.

I don't think anyone is saying Ayo will be a star, but if you are going to make comparisons, please get the perspective right. He has played a lot without ball in his hands too in past and in current. It is just that Illinois uses him as main dominant ball handler because he is so efficient. I mean he has one of the top field goal % in the league as a guard, is 40% from 3, top assist person in Big 10, good free throw % that is not 80% because he missed 3 straight free throws from a dirty play against MSU.

And like Duck, Garza is dominant in Big 10, but I would only spend a late 2nd rounder on him. Weiscamp has a better chance in my opinion to be a better pro from that team.

I'm not comparing Ayo to Dunn. I'm just saying Ayo will likely encounter the same issue Dunn did where he's not an on-ball guard for the first time in his career, and you better hope the 3-ball translates for that to work out.

I actually think Garza is rather intriguing. He at least has outlier traits for his size. I can't say the same about Ayo who is more all-around solid as a combo guard.

[MGB8]

Watch on YouTube

[othawhitemeat]

Who DOES Ayo compare to physically and athletically?

I’ve heard Jrue. Anyone else?

Shai to me. Same athleticism, style of play, etc.... Shai was a little better defender while Ayo would be coming in with a little more versatility offensively. Similar build/athleticism but Ayo is really fast.

[othawhitemeat]

Moore is 6'4" with a 6'9" wingspan. Ayo is reportedly 6'5" with a 6'9" wingspan.

And this was Moore in college

Watch on YouTube

Pretty clearly a more advanced shooter than Ayo. He played off-ball next to a playmaking guard, so didn't have as much opportunity to wrack up assists. Ayo better physically and thus more of a threat on the drive.

A problem Ayo is going to have is the same issue Kris Dunn encountered in that the bar to clear to be an on-ball NBA player is extremely high from a talent perspective (unless you're the Bulls with Coby ).

If/when you fail to clear that hurdle, you start playing a lot off-ball. And that immediately turned Kris Dunn into a liability offensively. Now I don't think Ayo is dead in the water from that perspective. He could pull it off. But I wouldn't say it necessarily plays to his college strengths.

Geez, your comparisons on Ayo are so far off. As Duck mentioned, Ayo plays nothing like Moore like at all. Ayo actually shoots at a better % this year than Moore did from 3. Ayo can play off the ball. Ayo is a much better mid-range and 3 point shooter than Dunn and stats show such for college too. Free throw shot and Ayo is not nearly the defender/vertical athlete Dunn is.

I don't think anyone is saying Ayo will be a star, but if you are going to make comparisons, please get the perspective right. He has played a lot without ball in his hands too in past and in current. It is just that Illinois uses him as main dominant ball handler because he is so efficient. I mean he has one of the top field goal % in the league as a guard, is 40% from 3, top assist person in Big 10, good free throw % that is not 80% because he missed 3 straight free throws from a dirty play against MSU.

And like Duck, Garza is dominant in Big 10, but I would only spend a late 2nd rounder on him. Weiscamp has a better chance in my opinion to be a better pro from that team.

I'm not comparing Ayo to Dunn. I'm just saying Ayo will likely encounter the same issue Dunn did where he's not an on-ball guard for the first time in his career, and you better hope the 3-ball translates for that to work out.

I actually think Garza is rather intriguing. He at least has outlier traits for his size. I can't say the same about Ayo who is more all-around solid as a combo guard.

I hear you, but a key difference is Ayo has played a lot off the ball too (especially with Curbelo/Trent). The good news for Ayo is his FT shooting, 3 point shooting, etc... are all better than Dunn.

For Garza, he definitely has some offensive traits that I would draft in 2nd round in that he shoots well, has some post moves, can pass, and hustles. He is just very bad defensively and gets away with post fouls he will not at the NBA level.

[DuckIII]

Yea not seeing the Moore comp at all tho big difference in a 6’3 guard and someone who is nearly 6’6. They don’t even play the same at all

Moore is 6'4" with a 6'9" wingspan. Ayo is reportedly 6'5" with a 6'9" wingspan.

And this was Moore in college

Watch on YouTube

Pretty clearly a more advanced shooter than Ayo. He played off-ball next to a playmaking guard, so didn't have as much opportunity to wrack up assists. Ayo better physically and thus more of a threat on the drive.

A problem Ayo is going to have is the same issue Kris Dunn encountered in that the bar to clear to be an on-ball NBA player is extremely high from a talent perspective (unless you're the Bulls with Coby ).

If/when you fail to clear that hurdle, you start playing a lot off-ball. And that immediately turned Kris Dunn into a liability offensively. Now I don't think Ayo is dead in the water from that perspective. He could pull it off. But I wouldn't say it necessarily plays to his college strengths.

Kris Dunn? How many times have you watched an Ayo game this year? Not clips, an actual game.

[TheSuzerain]

Yea not seeing the Moore comp at all tho big difference in a 6’3 guard and someone who is nearly 6’6. They don’t even play the same at all

Moore is 6'4" with a 6'9" wingspan. Ayo is reportedly 6'5" with a 6'9" wingspan.

And this was Moore in college

Watch on YouTube

Pretty clearly a more advanced shooter than Ayo. He played off-ball next to a playmaking guard, so didn't have as much opportunity to wrack up assists. Ayo better physically and thus more of a threat on the drive.

A problem Ayo is going to have is the same issue Kris Dunn encountered in that the bar to clear to be an on-ball NBA player is extremely high from a talent perspective (unless you're the Bulls with Coby ).

If/when you fail to clear that hurdle, you start playing a lot off-ball. And that immediately turned Kris Dunn into a liability offensively. Now I don't think Ayo is dead in the water from that perspective. He could pull it off. But I wouldn't say it necessarily plays to his college strengths.

Kris Dunn? How many times have you watched an Ayo game this year? Not clips, an actual game.

Read the sentence where I bring up Kris Dunn more closely.

[DuckIII]

Assuming the Bulls stay at 12, this is the group of guys generally mocked around that area:

I'm ignoring bigs because I hope the Bulls don't draft another one

Corey Kispert
BJ Boston
Sharife Cooper
Franz Wagner
Keon Johnson
James Bouknight
Jalen Johnson

Who knows where Jalen will land. I like Bouknight a TON, his comp is Kevin Martin/Zach Lavine, but not sure he fits a need for the Bulls. I think they go wing again, with BJ Boston/Kispert/Wagner/JJ, admittedly those wings are very different from one another.

Boston is the ultimate boom/bust guy in that group, and has struggled mightily. And Kispert is probably the opposite, a senior who surely has a role in the NBA, albeit a small one.

I think one or two of those guys have a chance to be all stars, just about picking the right one.

I would love to leave draft day with Bouknight. Like Keon Johnson’s upside too. If Wagner pans out he’d be a great fit, but I’m 50/50 on him. Need to see more Michigan games.

Hard pass on Jalen Johnson barring more evidence. I haven’t seen him play much and when I did I got the exact same vibe I got when I first saw Kevin Knox and OJ Mayo - specifically that they were getting by on past reputation.

[DuckIII]

Moore is 6'4" with a 6'9" wingspan. Ayo is reportedly 6'5" with a 6'9" wingspan.

And this was Moore in college

Watch on YouTube

Pretty clearly a more advanced shooter than Ayo. He played off-ball next to a playmaking guard, so didn't have as much opportunity to wrack up assists. Ayo better physically and thus more of a threat on the drive.

A problem Ayo is going to have is the same issue Kris Dunn encountered in that the bar to clear to be an on-ball NBA player is extremely high from a talent perspective (unless you're the Bulls with Coby ).

If/when you fail to clear that hurdle, you start playing a lot off-ball. And that immediately turned Kris Dunn into a liability offensively. Now I don't think Ayo is dead in the water from that perspective. He could pull it off. But I wouldn't say it necessarily plays to his college strengths.

Kris Dunn? How many times have you watched an Ayo game this year? Not clips, an actual game.

Read the sentence where I bring up Kris Dunn more closely.

I was just coming in to edit that post now that I see in a different post you clarified it was not a comparison. Regardless, Ayo is not a point guard like Dunn. He’s a combo guard heavy on the shooting guard side. He plays off ball and can shoot and finishes great at the rim. I don’t see him struggling with Dunn’s offensive issues, not even a tiny bit.

[Jcool0]

Why are the only comparisons for players ex Bulls? And usually bad ex Bulls?

[DuckIII]

Who DOES Ayo compare to physically and athletically?

I’ve heard Jrue. Anyone else?

Khris Middleton maybe? I’m not good at this. Ayo is somewhat ordinary physically and athletically by NBA standards. He’s 6’5/6’6 and is fast and can jump, but doesn’t have any physical traits that explode off the screen as elite.

He’s a standard NBA athlete who will separate himself based on skill, smarts and will. Which is not to say he’s a minus athlete who has only those things.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Who DOES Ayo compare to physically and athletically?

I’ve heard Jrue. Anyone else?

Khris Middleton maybe? I’m not good at this. Ayo is somewhat ordinary physically and athletically by NBA standards. He’s 6’5/6’6 and is fast and can jump, but doesn’t have any traits that explode off the screen as elite.

He’s a standard NBA athlete who will separate himself based on skill, smarts and will. Which is not to say he’s a minus athlete who has only those things.

That all sounds right based on what I've seen, which isn't much. My concern is that if he's just a hold-his-own type of athlete in the NBA, that puts a lot of pressure on his shooting to pan out, and his indicators there are pretty middle of the road.

I did like what I saw of him over the weekend, though.

[MGB8]

Who DOES Ayo compare to physically and athletically?

I’ve heard Jrue. Anyone else?

Khris Middleton maybe? I’m not good at this. Ayo is somewhat ordinary physically and athletically by NBA standards. He’s 6’5/6’6 and is fast and can jump, but doesn’t have any physical traits that explode off the screen as elite.

He’s a standard NBA athlete who will separate himself based on skill, smarts and will. Which is not to say he’s a minus athlete who has only those things.

Norm Powell?

[Almost Retired]

Ayo has another attribute that's difficult to quantify. The "it" factor. The confidence to want that ball in your hands when the game is on the line. He has that. And he's had incredible success in those situations. Sometimes he does with a drive through traffic to the hoop. Sometimes with a 2 pt jumper in the lane or a 3 pointer, even one taken about 7 feet beyond the college line. You can't cheat on him defensively because he can kill you in multiple ways. A backcourt duo of Ayo and Zach would be devastating. Both able to drive, both able to hit from outside. And it puts Coby on the second unit as the SG where he will excel next to Sato. But I fear if Ayo looks really good in the tournament and Illinois makes it deep then he's likely to be gone by the time we pick. But if he's on the Board I'd take him.

Maybe I'll get flamed for this but I see a young Dwayne Wade in this kid, though Wade was heavier. Their heights and wingspans were comparable coming out of college. And their stat lines were very similar in college:

Wade (2 Year Career at Marquette) : PTS -19.7 ; RB - 6.5 ; Assists - 3.9 ; 3 PT - 33% ; FT - 74.5% ; FG 49.4%
Ayo (this season) : PTS - 20.9 ; RB - 5.5 ; Assists - 5.5 ; 3 PT - 45% ; FT - 79% ; FG - 50%

Ayo is going to be a good player in the league. I hope we can land him.

[othawhitemeat]

Kris Dunn? How many times have you watched an Ayo game this year? Not clips, an actual game.

Read the sentence where I bring up Kris Dunn more closely.

I was just coming in to edit that post now that I see in a different post you clarified it was not a comparison. Regardless, Ayo is not a point guard like Dunn. He’s a combo guard heavy on the shooting guard side. He plays off ball and can shoot and finishes great at the rim. I don’t see him struggling with Dunn’s offensive issues, not even a tiny bit.

I agree pretty much with you Duck on the whole Ayo topic. Suzerain, you are a great poster, but it does seem like you have not watched many Ayo games cause the meaning of playing off the ball is that Ayo already does that a lot. To say he is a worse but taller Etwaun shows how far off the comparisons are.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

We need perimeter defense. White is not pg, Sato is expiring next year, Dotson still unproven, Arch is training player. Ayo/Springer/Nix all could be answer to Bulls pg /combo spot longterm.

[TheSuzerain]

Ok you guys don't get to bash my Ayo posts and then turn around and compare him to Khris Middleton physically.

[TheSuzerain]

We need perimeter defense. White is not pg, Sato is expiring next year, Dotson still unproven, Arch is training player. Ayo/Springer/Nix all could be answer to Bulls pg /combo spot longterm.

Keon is also a strong option here. He's extremely impressive physically. Definitely more of a combo than a PG though.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

We need perimeter defense. White is not pg, Sato is expiring next year, Dotson still unproven, Arch is training player. Ayo/Springer/Nix all could be answer to Bulls pg /combo spot longterm.

Keon is also a strong option here. He's extremely impressive physically. Definitely more of a combo than a PG though.

Dont know about BillyD but Boylen would played Keon as powerforward for sure.