Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[kyrv]

I am wondering if Jimmy is alone on this, part of his frustration. Nobody has backed him up, not even pc pr wise, and Noah rejected his thoughts. I doubt Pau Rose Noah Taj Kirk are on board.

[TheGOATRises007]

2 wrongs do make a right. I stand corrected.

What happened to trying to fix the Bulls? The FO just dragged their showhorse through the mud, and that is supposed to be constructive, but all you want to do is talk about who started it?

All I want to do is for people to accept that Butler is a man and that the comments he made are his and his alone. He should be held accountable.

Yes, the front office have built a flawed roster. Yes, Hoiberg could be harder on the players. These things can be true, as can the fact that Butler has acted like a gigantic tit.

Seeing as he's the one that has been completely unprofessional, it astounds me that people are bringing their agendas of team construction and the flaws within it to the topic as if that gives Butler some sort of an excuse for being mad.

If Lebron James had called out David Blatt like this, he'd be murdered by this board. Butler does it, and it's "not great", but somehow he's pardoned (to a degree) because the FO have Tony Snell as the team's SF.

Give me a break.

This x100.

Butler has gone about this the wrong way. He's not being a good leader if that's his aim.

[TheStig]

Geesh, you trust KC of all people? He's just a mouth piece for the FO.

K.C. Johnson is supposedly the mouth piece of the organisation, so here, Butler hasn’t done anything wrong, and the organisation has turned on Butler and have created a story to negatively paint Butler as a problem.

Is that what you’re telling me.

So, again, I ask, when will the players take any ownership?

It’s not possible at all that Butler here is actually doing what Johnson outlines. Give me a damn break.

I'm saying that I don't trust KC at all. He is the FO's shill. There is a reason that all the stories anti FO comes from the national media and that guys like KC and Sam Smith always back them. Players and coaches don't trust them.

The moment that I completely lost all respect for KC was when Pax choked VDN and KC sat on it.

I made no comment about Butler being right or wrong. Just very convenient that he has always been the golden boy and all of a sudden he's been acting consistently after his comment. Very convenient.

When this gets escalated and the national media sources scorch the Bulls, I don't want to hear about the poor FO. They escalated this just now.

[GetBuLLish]

So the Bulls rule is: keep the private drama out of the press, but if you don't, we will hit you back even harder through anonymous leaks.

I must have missed the underlined part.

Are you being **** serious right now?

The problem here is that you are failing to see the very simple points some of us are trying to make. That's the issue here.

There is a reason the Bulls FO is almost continually clashing with its own players and coaches. And it's because of this exact mentality:

Johnson isn't reporting this if Butler doesn't start ****. This isn't hard.

You see, this is not the only approach to take in these situations. Other franchises will try to take the high road and would solely have a private sit down with Butler to try to straighten things out. The Bulls on the other hand will make sure to come out swinging and will go to their favorite writer to anonymously disparage Butler.

And this approach is not limited to when a player calls out the coach. No, it extends to every time a player or coach refuses to do things the way they want.

[beeshma]

Anyway, this team's house looks to be a mess, and I think all Jimmy did was probably lift up the rug a little and let some light in.

And according to the story, Jimmy himself is at least partially responsible for this mess.

The guy cursed out the coaching staff during a film session and people are being ho-hum about it. Hilarious.

Oh, I would agree. He is breaking the offense as much as anyone else.

But any idea that this is just a one off, Jimmy getting a big head event, is probably being naive. The rumblings about disorder below the surface have been leaked out a few other times before this.

I bet half the team has cussed or said something confrontational to a coach in the last 2 years as well, or done some other minor variation misconduct that could be leaked to KC to make them look bad too.

Obviously it was nothing too great or else Jimmy would have been fined or punished at the time, and we heard nothing like that at the time. So curious now we are supposed to believe there are all these 'incidents' and a history of trouble.

When Giannis was not acting in a team manner earlier this year, Kidd benched him for a game. If Butler has been doing disrespectful things where are the reports from those incidents?

Yes, it also reminds me of the FO rumor spread about Thibs, that he was "rude to the cleaning staff" or whatever. When you spread rumors like this, it's like your assassinating their character. I don't like the KC article at all. I think that fact that Butler and Holberg spoke to each other Sunday is the most important thing to take away.

[Rerisen]

2 wrongs do make a right. I stand corrected.

What happened to trying to fix the Bulls? The FO just dragged their showhorse through the mud, and that is supposed to be constructive, but all you want to do is talk about who started it?

All I want to do is for people to accept that Butler is a man and that the comments he made are his and his alone. He should be held accountable.

Yes, the front office have built a flawed roster. Yes, Hoiberg could be harder on the players. These things can be true, as can the fact that Butler has acted like a gigantic tit.

Seeing as he's the one that has been completely unprofessional, it astounds me that people are bringing their agendas of team construction and the flaws within it to the topic as if that gives Butler some sort of an excuse for being mad.

If Lebron James had called out David Blatt like this, he'd be murdered by this board. Butler does it, and it's "not great", but somehow he's pardoned (to a degree) because the FO have Tony Snell as the team's SF.

Give me a break.

Punishing Butler is easy. Either give him a suspension, or a fine.

Boom, taken care of. Stepped out of line, pay the price. Much better than trying to assassinate his character in the media.

And once that simple punishment is taken care of, then we get to the much harder problem of actually addressing the things he exposed about the team. We are 1/3 into the season and no progress has been made on the same problems of last year as far as chemistry, buy in to the gameplan, teamwork and effort.

As a fan of the team and wanting them to be successful, the latter issue is a way bigger problem than Butler speaking out of turn.

[GetBuLLish]

All Bulls related information is OWNED by the Bulls.

All I'm going to say is that this comment is just mind-numbingly absurd.

[BoozerRoNo]

I think I may have found something worse than the Reggie Rose - Rose drama to hate on.

Goodness Jimmy - I read the article. That's just terrible.

I dont see how this is worse. Reggie Rose basically said the Bulls team wasnt good enough for Rose to play. All Butler is saying is this team needs to play harder which they aren't. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Quite honestly, I doubt Rose was sick but coach Hoiberg covered for him. I doubt Rose vision was as bad as coach wanted people to think. I mean was Rose able to drive a car to practice if so it wasnt that bad.

We don't know if Jimmy has talk to the coach about it privately and still chose not to do anything. Jimmy sounds like a guy that wants to win sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Atleast he's not deciding to sit out games like Rose did.

[bulliedog8]

The idea is to discredit Butler as a reliable source - he's just a hothead - as if that can be done, then the actual context of what he said, might not be believed.

And that is the more damaging message that he let out, even more so maybe than Butler criticizing his coach.

Unfortunately, for anyone not brain dead, all you have to do is watch the games to see he is right, and the team is not executing the coach's gameplan. And its night to night effort waxes and wanes entirely at the players leisure.

The narrative was supposed to be that this was all going to end with the firing of Thibs, who was supposed to be the one causing such unprofessional behavior.

And he is one of the biggest reasons why. He is so iso heavy. The minute he touches the ball. He is shooting.
Doesnt help that we have 2 other scrubs next to him that do the same. The second pau touches the ball, especially on a post up, he is draining that shot clock and stalling the offense. Rose is the exact opposite but just as bad. Passes the ball and then goes and sits in a corner doing absolutely nothing. Those 3 dudes and of course so others have some of the worst off ball movement I have ever seen. You would think Rose, Butler, and Snell would be towards the top in the league when it comes to cutters and off ball movement with their speed and athleticism (maybe take snell off that ha)

[TheGOATRises007]

So the Bulls rule is: keep the private drama out of the press, but if you don't, we will hit you back even harder through anonymous leaks.

I must have missed the underlined part.

Are you being **** serious right now?

The problem here is that you are failing to see the very simple points some of us are trying to make. That's the issue here.

There is a reason the Bulls FO is almost continually clashing with its own players and coaches. And it's because of this exact mentality:

Johnson isn't reporting this if Butler doesn't start ****. This isn't hard.

You see, this is not the only approach to take in these situations. Other franchises will try to take the high road and would solely have a private sit down with Butler to try to straighten things out. The Bulls on the other hand will make sure to come out swinging and will go to their favorite writer to anonymously disparage Butler.

And this approach is not limited to when a player calls out the coach. No, it extends to every time a player or coach refuses to do things the way they want.

I think this is where disagreements also come.

I seriously doubt KC was "told" to write that article to deflect blame back on Butler.

[Red Larrivee]

That's not what KC said. Butler supposedly "used profanity while addressing the coaching staff once and disrupted a film session on another occasion with critical comments."

While those two actions aren't great, let's not blow things out of proportion. Assuming he used profanity addressing the coaching staff and it was done in a disrespectful manner, that's not good. But sometimes people get heated and **** happens.

As for disrupting a film session once "with critical comments": who the eff cares? Maybe he saw Niko miss the same damn rotation for the 20th time and had enough. Big friggin' deal. These guys have film sessions all the damn time.

Like I said, his frustration is with the new young toys that our FO has retrieved not being good at basketball.

I think a lot of people should care, especially if Jimmy is going to force this whole leadership thing. I don't understand following a leader of his style without the hardware to back it up.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

OK, if this stuff is true, Jimmy needs to check himself. But lawdawmercy, why does the FO continue to handle disputes this way. Because it's served them so well in the past?

[musiqsoulchild]

Joakim Noah cussed out Ron Adams wasn't it, his first year and the team (players) gave him a 1 game suspension. 8 years later Joakim Noah is still here and the 'heart of the team'. Considering Butler didn't receive any punishment for any of these trifles KC scatter shot out, kind of hard to suddenly buy that Jimmy is like the Worst Person In The World.

It's not. They'll get along and play harder.

This organization is pretty good at course correction after stuff like this:

1) Wallace and head band hate
2) Tyrus mouthing off on Skiles
3) BG cussing out Vinny in front of the media
4) Noah and the Ron Adams episode
5) Paxson roughing up Vinny

We have a "sit down" and we move on.

This isn't a big deal anyway. Butlers disposition to his teammates is the bigger sin - calling out the coach in the media is just hot, young blood. Everyone will move on from that.

His teammates however may not be as forgiving. He's done this multiple times over 2 seasons now.

[Sonny_D1]

Would the Bulls trade Butler for the #1 pick or a top 3 or 4 pick in this years draft?
Or would y'all consider him untouchabull?

He isnt untouchable but this year is an incredibly weak draft class.

PERSONALLY, I would trade him for Dangelo Russell though. Butler (according to sources) wanted to go to LA and he clearly wants to be big time. Send him to the Lakers for Russell. We would have our superstar of the future (I am very high on him) and butler has his fame. Plus that would give us even more cap room to go after FAs and put together a good team.

Ben Simmons is the truth. Problem is the team with the #1 pick wouldn't make that deal.

[TheGOATRises007]

That's not what KC said. Butler supposedly "used profanity while addressing the coaching staff once and disrupted a film session on another occasion with critical comments."

While those two actions aren't great, let's not blow things out of proportion. Assuming he used profanity addressing the coaching staff and it was done in a disrespectful manner, that's not good. But sometimes people get heated and **** happens.

As for disrupting a film session once "with critical comments": who the eff cares? Maybe he saw Niko miss the same damn rotation for the 20th time and had enough. Big friggin' deal. These guys have film sessions all the damn time.

Like I said, his frustration is with the new young toys that our FO has retrieved not being good at basketball.

I think a lot of people should care, especially if Jimmy is going to force this whole leadership thing. I don't understand following a leader of his style without the hardware to back it up.

He's an awful leader with nothing to hang his hat on.

He needs to stop pulling this **** asap.

[BullsGate]

Furthermore, according to sources, Butler used profanity while addressing the coaching staff once and disrupted a film session on another occasion with critical comments. While those defending Butler say such instances stem from his frustration that few players match his work ethic, his habit of warming up on his own has alienated others to the point that Joakim Noah recently talked to Butler, a source said

and you people called D.Rose a diva.

It's unlikely general manager Gar Forman or executive vice president of basketball operations John Paxson would cut bait on a roster they called championship-caliber.

[Rerisen]

And he is one of the biggest reasons why. He is so iso heavy.

Right, but he is basically begging Fred to yell at him about it!

And he wants to be yelled at about it, so long as Fred then yells at the rest of the team, not just about that, but about everything they are doing wrong or half assing for the 2nd straight year.

Jimmy tried to be the leader starting in the summer, he has failed. I think he sees that and is using this as a hail mary, including sacrificing himself, in order to try and get this crap corrected.

Just scolding Jimmy via KC in the paper and then trying to have a nice talk and bury it, isn't going to solve anything.

Either Fred gets this team on track, or the FO needs to wakup from their dreamland and make some roster changes. It's not working at any 'championship level' like KC alleges they believe we had.

[fleet]

2 wrongs do make a right. I stand corrected.

What happened to trying to fix the Bulls? The FO just dragged their showhorse through the mud, and that is supposed to be constructive, but all you want to do is talk about who started it?

All I want to do is for people to accept that Butler is a man and that the comments he made are his and his alone. He should be held accountable.

agreed. That was never in dispute

Yes, the front office have built a flawed roster. Yes, Hoiberg could be harder on the players. These things can be true, as can the fact that Butler has acted like a gigantic tit.

Again, no dispute

Seeing as he's the one that has been completely unprofessional, it astounds me that people are bringing their agendas of team construction and the flaws within it to the topic as if that gives Butler some sort of an excuse for being mad.

I happen to give his comments some validity given the way this team plays. Again, who excused him for going to the press? He. Was. Wrong.

f Lebron James had called out David Blatt like this, he'd be murdered by this board. Butler does it, and it's "not great", but somehow he's pardoned (to a degree) because the FO have Tony Snell as the team's SF.

Give me a break.

I'll tell what else isn't ****** hard Mark. The FO is just as guilty as Jimmy now. But somehow, FO is pardoned (fully) because Jimmy started it. The whole team is now acting like children Mark. Write that in your blog.

[Rerisen]

We have a "sit down" and we move on.

I don't think Butler wants to move on, I think he wants a change from accepting this elevated mediocrity we've been wallowing for the last 2 years.

Hopefully it happens.

[musiqsoulchild]

I think I may have found something worse than the Reggie Rose - Rose drama to hate on.

Goodness Jimmy - I read the article. That's just terrible.

I dont see how this is worse. Reggie Rose basically said the Bulls team wasnt good enough for Rose to play. All Butler is saying is this team needs to play harder which they aren't. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Quite honestly, I doubt Rose was sick but coach Hoiberg covered for him. I doubt Rose vision was as bad as coach wanted people to think. I mean was Rose able to drive a car to practice if so it wasnt that bad.

We don't know if Jimmy has talk to the coach about it privately and still chose not to do anything. Jimmy sounds like a guy that wants to win sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Atleast he's not deciding to sit out games like Rose did.

Reggie basically said his teammates are not that good.

Jimmy is saying again and again that his teammates aren't working hard enough.

I don't know what's worse - but I think Jimmy has a more direct connection to the team than Reggie.