2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th!

[Chi town]

What's the difference between Halliburton and Hayes?

I give the nod to Hayes due to his shot (FT’s), stronger frame (Hali is rail thin and a big injury risk IMO), and that lefty advantage.

[kulaz3000]

if Ball is gone, which, would happen and you can't move up for a reasonable price for him, which I think it's likely, it's Deni or Toppin to me, that's all and I know for a fact the Bulls love Avdija and what he is about

Nope. not picking Deni at 4 although I am huge fan unless he proves he is Doncic lite.
Remember Doncic went #3 so if Deni is not even close no chance. Hes someone I am comfortable at 7.

Pick number 4 is great in that you can trade up for Ball or down or even out for a unprotected 2021. Theres no need to be forced or pressured to pick someone if your uncomfortable.

This is a very silly way to evaluate prospects.

You can't compare where one player was drafted to another in an entirely different class, with different players, of varying talent levels.

[umfan83]

He was top 5 before the beginning of the College season.

Yeah, so outside of the injury (which is a legitimate reason to move him down) what did we see from him on college to make him a late lottery pick now?

He didn't play so we'll for being a top 5 pick not even top 10.

Gotcha. I’m a Michigan fan (duh) so one game I saw of his was the game they played and in that one he basically took over the game at one point and turned a blowout into a much closer game.

[Chi town]

https://deanondraft.com/

[MrFortune3]

any reason there's not more interest in vassell here? obviously shot creation is a skill this team badly needs, but i think "elite wing defender with high bbiq who can also shoot" is a pretty valuable piece if he pans out in the league.

and, like, i get that he's a "low ceiling" player, but also...is "devin vassell adding an off-the-bounce game" really more implausible than "lamelo ball learning how to shoot" or "deni avidja developing one elite skill" or whatever else the top prospects in our range need to do to pan out as legit stars

Simply put, he's not a top 5 consideration level player. He is someone who would need private workouts and the combine to move up in the draft.
Right now, you cannot justify him in the top 5. Not even sure teams would rate him as a top 10 player.
I can see teams outside of the top 10 trying to move up to get him. If you have a top 5 or 10 pick, he's the perfect additional player to bring in.

[2018C3]

If the Bulls trade down / out / or stay pat, I'm ready to support whatever happens. I'd like to be in a opportunity to pic Wiseman, but suspect he will be gone. I could easily see Deni being our guy. I just don't think he is strong or quick enough to excel. If he does end up here, I will hope all the other posters who support him are right in what they see in him.

If Ball falls down to three (which I think is very likely), it would be interesting to see what the Bobcats might do. I could totally see Mj not wanting the Bobcats to pick him up after big ball said he could beat him one on one. Mj never forgets. Or maybe He would draft him and immediately send him out somewhere.

If Ball somehow fell to us, his trade value and hype may exceed his worth. It would open up some interesting trade options if he was not our target.

[Jvaughn]

I'm pretty all in on Deni or Hayes. The playmaking from both could really open up this offense, and can keep Lavine from having to play hero ball just to keep us in games. Both have some questions on shooting, but I don't see any glaring reasons why that wouldn't improve. Hayes has already improved a bit there, and has solid mechanics. Deni's FT shooting still worries me some, but he was much improved after the hiatus.

I want no part of Toppin. You can see the offensive potential, and I'm still a bit intrigued, but big men who don't play defense or rebound are huge red flags for me. Wiseman/Ball may also fall depending on if there are any trades. If we go for a Wiseman, I would hope to have a Wendell trade setup for draft night. Ball has real boom/bust potential, and may end up being the best player in this draft, but I'm still skeptical.

The Bulls need playmaking to help both big men to reach their star potential, not save Lavine who shouldnt have touched the ball that many times in the first place. Asking for Deni/Hayes means your embracing a long rebuild in that these guys might take 5 yrs.
I dont want to invest that much time to these starter type players and instead focus on getting better for 2021.

You see what the Warriors did with DAR, thats what I envision AK to do with Toppin when he decides to replace Lauri to get Hali who is a brogdon type player. The dream scenario is give Toppin 30 usg in 1 season and force him to average 20/10 on 50/40 shooting so he can maximize value to become a nice trade chip for AD or the upcoming draft.
Although I was a Toppin hater bc of Lauri, the fact that he is NBA ready and can shoot the 3 makes me we should exploit this kid.
The marketing department better hype him up as some legendary incarnation of Amare and give him a Zion like buzz.

One of them in Lakers and Bucks might not even make it to the finals and the superstars might call it quits. AK needs to prepare these unforeseen circumstances which drastically shortens the time for rebuild. Having number 4 pick increases the Bulls assets exponentially.

The Bulls need playmaking long term, and unless we hit on a generational talent like Doncic, it's not going to happen through the draft.

Deni and Hayes are both plus facilitators who's ball movement will definitely help the offense. I'd say both of them are on the same tier with Haliburton.

I definitely don't agree that Toppin is NBA ready. And I definitely don't see him averaging 20/10 even at his prime. He's a poor rebounder and defender. Both of those will limit how much time he spends on the floor. I'm not a huge Lauri fan, and would trade him for a late lottery pic, but I don't think Toppin is going to be vastly better if he hits his ceiling.

I'm also done hoping stars choose the Bulls. Due to our reputation, we're going to have to build this team through drafts and trades. AK did a good job of that in DEN, so I'm hoping he definitely stresses internal development over clearing cap space on a hope as our previous administration did.

[transplant]

Who's the BPA at 4?

[nomorezorro]

Simply put, he's not a top 5 consideration level player. He is someone who would need private workouts and the combine to move up in the draft.
Right now, you cannot justify him in the top 5. Not even sure teams would rate him as a top 10 player.
I can see teams outside of the top 10 trying to move up to get him. If you have a top 5 or 10 pick, he's the perfect additional player to bring in.

i've seen people i trust put him up there as a top-5 prospect

i recognize he doesn't have the upside you would expect in the top 5, but giving him some consideration says as much about the draft as it says about him. i'd probably be interested in a typical mid-late lottery prospect like mikal bridges in the top 5 of this draft, too

[MrSparkle]

A lot of negativity with this draft. I'm not saying it's not necessarily true, but one historic constant is that every draft ever had atleast 1 star player in the top-5. Generally 2.

I think 2000 takes the cake for worst draft in modern history. I think this year's top-5 are more talented than that. They've got red flags, but they've also got legitimate offensive skills. It's kind of pointless comparing these two radically different eras, but I will say that in some ways, the prospects' expectations (not their skill-sets) might be similar?

So let's hypothetically compare these top-5 to the worst-case scenario 2000 draft:

1. Kenyon Martin: 1 all-star game in his career. Fringe star - contributed best running with Kidd's contender Nets. Reality hit hard after DEN gave him a max contract. Good athlete, solid all-around, low IQ. Sounds like Edwards' ceiling IMO, albeit the guard version.

2. Stromile Swift: Athletic specimen; total bust. Wiseman ? Wiseman's size and hops are impressive, and he does have post skills, but the NCAA sample size is awful, and the center success rate is awful.

3. Darius Miles: Very hyped HS prospect. Different style player entirely, but LaMelo is also relying on prep hype. People are thinking he has star potential, but he also doesn't have a jumpshot. Lonzo's career impact so far is kind of similar to Darius' - you saw the talent potential up and close, but he just never really put it all together.

4. Marcus Fizer: Very solid college PF. Ultimately he was chosen by Krause to be a SF in the NBA, but that plan back-fired cause he was position less. Perhaps he would've been a serviceable tweener journeyman (ala Corliss Williamson) had he not torn his ACL before leaving the Floyd Bulls. Anyway, Obi Toppin? Obi's got much more spunk and athleticism, but this era is less kind to defense-less PFs, so maybe it's a similar (non) impact. Obi: get killed at PF by quicker players, get killed inside by bigger Cs?

5. Mike Miller: Talented all-around passing wing. He could shoot while Deni could not, but Deni seems more athletic, versatile, and Mike's biggest issue was injury proneness. High floor, probably fringe star ceiling.

Okongwu and Hayes honorable mentions.

2000 is maybe too harsh a comparison for this draft. I'm low on this crop, but I do think at least one of them will pan out, depending on their work ethic, team situation and health. Deni seems to me to be the safest high-floor, possibly star ceiling wing; you can plug him into any rotation in the NBA. The high-usage guards are the big-risk, high-reward guys. The big men seem medium-risk, low-reward.

I'm actually more curious to see what GSW does. This #2 is not worth a star in return (Beal, Simmons, etc.). It's also probably not worth a significant trade asset (i.e. Lauri, next year's FRP). They might be stuck with the pick. What we do have going for us: MIN and CHA have poor draft records (though Mitch Kupchak changes things), along with CLE at #5.

I imagine GSW or CHI might be able to trade down and still get the guy they want.

[2018C3]

This all the Covid issues, this draft will be a nightmare for Gm's to figure out properly. There will most likely be several mistakes made, with some solid picks falling lower than typical. I'd be open to trading out completely with the right offer, or also trading down.

[Sinistar6]

I like the idea of trading for GS pick with anything short of future picks and Zack. Then pounce on Ball/Wiseman. They have most upside in the draft.

Ball is particularly interesting because he believes he is great and he has already played with enormous amounts of pressure and performed. A celebrity in 9th grade.

Ceiling: Magic Crawford
Floor: Rick Astley

Wiseman has amazing physical tools, may even get bigger and has also been crowned (as the number 1 player in the class over time).

Ceiling: The Dream Process
Floor: Robin Lopez

I also like Cole Anthony as he underperformed at NC but has also been considered a top talent in the class.

(Edited to add Anthony)

[SfBull]

Yeah, so outside of the injury (which is a legitimate reason to move him down) what did we see from him on college to make him a late lottery pick now?

He didn't play so we'll for being a top 5 pick not even top 10.

Gotcha. I’m a Michigan fan (duh) so one game I saw of his was the game they played and in that one he basically took over the game at one point and turned a blowout into a much closer game.

And I saw some games that he didnt play well .

[SfBull]

Who's the BPA at 4?

My take is Avidja.

[Rose2Boozer]

Here's how I see the top five rounding out.

1. Wolves- James Wiseman
2. Warriors- LaMelo Ball
3. Hornets- Anthony Edwards
4. Bulls- Deni Avdija
5. Cavs- Obi Toppin

[Bulls69]

If the Bulls trade down / out / or stay pat, I'm ready to support whatever happens. I'd like to be in a opportunity to pic Wiseman, but suspect he will be gone. I could easily see Deni being our guy. I just don't think he is strong or quick enough to excel. If he does end up here, I will hope all the other posters who support him are right in what they see in him.

If Ball falls down to three (which I think is very likely), it would be interesting to see what the Bobcats might do. I could totally see Mj not wanting the Bobcats to pick him up after big ball said he could beat him one on one. Mj never forgets. Or maybe He would draft him and immediately send him out somewhere.

If Ball somehow fell to us, his trade value and hype may exceed his worth. It would open up some interesting trade options if he was not our target.

I don't the hype on Deni he's shooting 33% from the 3 point line and 52% from the FT line and a avg athletic

[Chicagoat]

Please don't let us pick Deni. I am pretty low on him and Ball.

I would take a lot of coping and bargaining for me to accept the pick. But if he becomes a Bull, then I will give him a fair chance.

[Chi town]

I think top 3 are a lock... Edwards Wiseman Melo.
There may be trades up to those top 3 picks to get those players.

I could see Dubs trading back for a future 1st and then taking Min pick and GS pick and trade back 1st for a star.

[Chi town]

If the Bulls trade down / out / or stay pat, I'm ready to support whatever happens. I'd like to be in a opportunity to pic Wiseman, but suspect he will be gone. I could easily see Deni being our guy. I just don't think he is strong or quick enough to excel. If he does end up here, I will hope all the other posters who support him are right in what they see in him.

If Ball falls down to three (which I think is very likely), it would be interesting to see what the Bobcats might do. I could totally see Mj not wanting the Bobcats to pick him up after big ball said he could beat him one on one. Mj never forgets. Or maybe He would draft him and immediately send him out somewhere.

If Ball somehow fell to us, his trade value and hype may exceed his worth. It would open up some interesting trade options if he was not our target.

I don't the hype on Deni he's shooting 33% from the 3 point line and 52% from the FT line and a avg athletic

Luka shot 30% from 3 in Europe and 32% this year from 3.

Demi’s form looks good. After restart he shot the ball a lot better from 3 and FT

[Bulls69]

If the Bulls trade down / out / or stay pat, I'm ready to support whatever happens. I'd like to be in a opportunity to pic Wiseman, but suspect he will be gone. I could easily see Deni being our guy. I just don't think he is strong or quick enough to excel. If he does end up here, I will hope all the other posters who support him are right in what they see in him.

If Ball falls down to three (which I think is very likely), it would be interesting to see what the Bobcats might do. I could totally see Mj not wanting the Bobcats to pick him up after big ball said he could beat him one on one. Mj never forgets. Or maybe He would draft him and immediately send him out somewhere.

If Ball somehow fell to us, his trade value and hype may exceed his worth. It would open up some interesting trade options if he was not our target.

I don't the hype on Deni he's shooting 33% from the 3 point line and 52% from the T line and a avg athletic

Luka shot 30% from 3 in Europe and 32% this year from 3.

Demi’s form looks good. After restart he shot the ball a lot better from 3 and FT[quote
The 52% FT jumps at me the Bulls have to start hitting homers on our draft picks because the Bulls can't get any major F/A's