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Options to fix the PF hole

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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#721 » by MGB8 » Thu Jan 6, 2022 4:31 pm

HINrichPolice wrote:Can someone explain why Chris Boucher isn't supposedly down in the Raptors' rotation? Aside from people with some star power and not a perfect fit (Jerami Grant / Christian Wood imo), I feel like Boucher would be a great target. Perhaps the eye test doesn't match on court production, but he has the length to at least bother a Durant or Giannis. I have no idea if he's ever had success against them, however.


Boucher's issue I think is more basketball IQ and also being a bit thin. Not sure how well he guards the perimeter.

At the same time, the Raps just wrecked a no-Murray San Antonio squad and, the following night, held the no-Giannis bucks to 34% in the 2nd half to win that game.

They are currently 7th in the East and rising - where Siakam has shaken off the rust and the rest of the guys are finally all healthy at the same time. I expect them to easily jump the Cavs and very likely jump the Heat.

If you traded Coby for Boucher, now the Raps are likely better than the Bulls; their one major weakness is a lack of a reliable 3rd guard who can score from the perimeter - handing the Coby likely fixes that.

Also, folks need to keep in mind that the Bulls are two improbable shots away from being 23-12 and in 3rd place rather than at the top of the standings... and not much further away from a couple more losses. Record notwithstanding, the Bulls are not the best team in the East or even a top-tier, top-2 team. Starting a reserve-level "hustle" 6'4/6'5 wing at the 4 (the near minimum salary Javonte Green or a guy likely to be a near minimum salary player next season in DJJ) with no "generational" type players on the team - two all-star level guys, one fringe all-star (Vuc), one guy who might improve to fringe all-star level this season (Lonzo)...
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#722 » by meekrab » Thu Jan 6, 2022 4:33 pm

step wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
step wrote:He's on a vet min contract. They could and should have dumped Semi instead.


Semi’s already guaranteed. You’re a Bulls fan, you should know better than anyone how important penny pinching is to owners.

Oh I only saw he was on a 1-year vet min deal too. Ooof that's bad.

I get the concept of penny-pinching... but how much are they really going to save? DeMarcus was also on the vet min.
They're supposedly looking to pick someone up... so they'll save what a week or two worth of salary?

Milwaukee's locked into the repeater luxury tax, every dollar they spend on players counts 5x.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#723 » by MGB8 » Thu Jan 6, 2022 5:19 pm

I'm still leaning hard towards a smaller move - mostly given a realistic assessment of who is available and the value of the Bulls' non-core players.

Isaiah Roby to me would be a perfect fit and might be gettable for just Simonovic (given that there is talk that the Thunder won't even pick up Roby's option for next year for roster space, and the fact that they are loaded with smaller 4 / combo-forward types with Bazely, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, Kenrich Williams. Dort is almost that kind of guy, too, though really small at 6'3. Though speaking of the Thunder, they just waived Gabriel Deck - and he might be worth a tire-kick, himself.

Anyway, besides Poku and "play-older-than-their-age" 30 year olds Favors and Muscala, the team is severely lacking in size. I could see them being interested in a look-see on Simonovic in return for Roby.

The "bigger" move I'd love would be to see two franchises exchange two rookie 2nd round studs / fan favorites - an Ayo (*potentially plus the Portland pick) for Herb Jones swap. Jones was taken 3 picks ahead of Ayo. He's a year and a half older.

I'm not sure that Jones is actually worth more than Ayo in the long term - but he has an extra year on his contract and his plus minus numbers are fantastic (as opposed to Ayo's, which are bad... but context matters - Ayo on a very good team, Jones on an awful one).

Meanwhile, the Pelicans could really, really use someone like Ayo - their back-court talent is Graham, Hart (who isn't much of a shooter and an over-rated, middling, defender), a poor-efficiency NAW and a haven't shown much of anything yet Kira Lewis. They need the defensive intensity.

In a vacuum, a straight swap makes a ton of sense for the Pelicans given that Herb plays Zion's position, and they also added Trey Murphy as a 3 and D combo forward). Don't know if they'd do that - but I would in a second (and I love Ayo - but needs). I'd think about adding the Portland (late, likely not for a couple of years) first, too. Maybe for a 2nd rounder or two back from NOLA in return for the Portland first going out on top of Ayo.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#724 » by Bulls2021 » Thu Jan 6, 2022 5:22 pm

MGB8 wrote:I'm still leaning hard towards a smaller move - mostly given a realistic assessment of who is available and the value of the Bulls' non-core players.

Isaiah Roby to me would be a perfect fit and might be gettable for just Simonovic (given that there is talk that the Thunder won't even pick up Roby's option for next year for roster space, and the fact that they are loaded with smaller 4 / combo-forward types with Bazely, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, Kenrich Williams. Dort is almost that kind of guy, too, though really small at 6'3. Though speaking of the Thunder, they just waived Gabriel Deck - and he might be worth a tire-kick, himself.

Anyway, besides Poku and "play-older-than-their-age" 30 year olds Favors and Muscala, the team is severely lacking in size. I could see them being interested in a look-see on Simonovic in return for Roby.

The "bigger" move I'd love would be to see two franchises exchange two rookie 2nd round studs / fan favorites - an Ayo (*potentially plus the Portland pick) for Herb Jones swap. Jones was taken 3 picks ahead of Ayo. He's a year and a half older.

I'm not sure that Jones is actually worth more than Ayo in the long term - but he has an extra year on his contract and his plus minus numbers are fantastic (as opposed to Ayo's, which are bad... but context matters - Ayo on a very good team, Jones on an awful one).

Meanwhile, the Pelicans could really, really use someone like Ayo - their back-court talent is Graham, Hart (who isn't much of a shooter and an over-rated, middling, defender), a poor-efficiency NAW and a haven't shown much of anything yet Kira Lewis. They need the defensive intensity.

In a vacuum, a straight swap makes a ton of sense for the Pelicans given that Herb plays Zion's position, and they also added Trey Murphy as a 3 and D combo forward). Don't know if they'd do that - but I would in a second (and I love Ayo - but needs). I'd think about adding the Portland (late, likely not for a couple of years) first, too. Maybe for a 2nd rounder or two back from NOLA in return for the Portland first going out on top of Ayo.

If any player is gettable straight up for Simonovic, how can they be any good? Simonovic is a guy that may never play another minute in the NBA. He has absolutely no value.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#725 » by HINrichPolice » Thu Jan 6, 2022 5:31 pm

MGB8 wrote:Also, folks need to keep in mind that the Bulls are two improbable shots away from being 23-12 and in 3rd place rather than at the top of the standings... and not much further away from a couple more losses. Record notwithstanding, the Bulls are not the best team in the East or even a top-tier, top-2 team. Starting a reserve-level "hustle" 6'4/6'5 wing at the 4 (the near minimum salary Javonte Green or a guy likely to be a near minimum salary player next season in DJJ) with no "generational" type players on the team - two all-star level guys, one fringe all-star (Vuc), one guy who might improve to fringe all-star level this season (Lonzo)...


It sounds like you're arguing that we don't quite have the window to cash in on some players to get a PF.

While I get that the standings rankings are pretty compressed right now to where a loss here and there could drop us several spots, I think you're being a bit down on what Javonte and DJJ bring to the table and are overselling how dangerously close we are to falling.

I know we've benefitted a bit from catching teams with COVID issues, but we've also battled through our issues as well. This team has yet to truly play at our sans-Patrick Williams full strength.

We've had several players show growth over the past month or so: Coby is finally starting to get his groove and is proving to be worthy of a good chunk of rotation minutes, McKinnie is a solid find for an end of bench piece, Troy Brown Jr. is continuing to find his role and giving us a lift on defense, and Matt Thomas/Tyler Cook have played themselves into being able to handle spot minutes.

And while those are steps forward, we've had some steps back in missing some of our biggest identity markers in Caruso and Javonte. So much of our success this season has been a result of defense to offense transition, and Caruso/Javonte are two of the biggest proponents of that.

Maybe we don't end up as a top-2 team in the standings, but as long as we're able to have the players to play our brand of basketball (defense turning to offense, our stars stepping up in crunch time) I wouldn't be surprised if we did stay in top-2 nor would I feel overmatched in facing any other Eastern team if healthy.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#726 » by 1985Bear » Thu Jan 6, 2022 6:58 pm

I wish Lance Stevenson was a little bigger. He is the type of pest I would love to throw at KD, Jimmy, Tatum, Giannis. A vet that can put some odd fouls on the stars and try to get them off their game a little.


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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#727 » by MGB8 » Thu Jan 6, 2022 7:13 pm

Bulls2021 wrote:
MGB8 wrote:I'm still leaning hard towards a smaller move - mostly given a realistic assessment of who is available and the value of the Bulls' non-core players.

Isaiah Roby to me would be a perfect fit and might be gettable for just Simonovic (given that there is talk that the Thunder won't even pick up Roby's option for next year for roster space, and the fact that they are loaded with smaller 4 / combo-forward types with Bazely, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, Kenrich Williams. Dort is almost that kind of guy, too, though really small at 6'3. Though speaking of the Thunder, they just waived Gabriel Deck - and he might be worth a tire-kick, himself.

Anyway, besides Poku and "play-older-than-their-age" 30 year olds Favors and Muscala, the team is severely lacking in size. I could see them being interested in a look-see on Simonovic in return for Roby.

The "bigger" move I'd love would be to see two franchises exchange two rookie 2nd round studs / fan favorites - an Ayo (*potentially plus the Portland pick) for Herb Jones swap. Jones was taken 3 picks ahead of Ayo. He's a year and a half older.

I'm not sure that Jones is actually worth more than Ayo in the long term - but he has an extra year on his contract and his plus minus numbers are fantastic (as opposed to Ayo's, which are bad... but context matters - Ayo on a very good team, Jones on an awful one).

Meanwhile, the Pelicans could really, really use someone like Ayo - their back-court talent is Graham, Hart (who isn't much of a shooter and an over-rated, middling, defender), a poor-efficiency NAW and a haven't shown much of anything yet Kira Lewis. They need the defensive intensity.

In a vacuum, a straight swap makes a ton of sense for the Pelicans given that Herb plays Zion's position, and they also added Trey Murphy as a 3 and D combo forward). Don't know if they'd do that - but I would in a second (and I love Ayo - but needs). I'd think about adding the Portland (late, likely not for a couple of years) first, too. Maybe for a 2nd rounder or two back from NOLA in return for the Portland first going out on top of Ayo.

If any player is gettable straight up for Simonovic, how can they be any good? Simonovic is a guy that may never play another minute in the NBA. He has absolutely no value.


Javonte Green was Boston's trash ... now he's a starter for the Bulls (due to injury, but still).

It's not that Roby is trash - he has a positive plus minus and is efficient and brings both perimeter and rim defense while not being completely awful from 3 (even shooting 50% from 3 as a bailout option this year - 4.4 3pa/36).

The issue with Roby is that he's a 2019 2nd round pick that's in competition for playing time with a 2019 first round pick (Bazely), a 2020 first round pick (Poku), a 2021 2nd round pick who, like many from this year, has massively exceeded expectations (Jeremiah Robinson-Earl) and a couple of bouncy, aggressive, a bit older wings-turned-4s (Kenrich Williams, even the 6'3 Dort).

I also don't agree that Simonovic is trash, per se. He's just not ready to contribute. I actually think he has NBA talent once he gets strong enough and more integrated into the league. Not saying he's starter material or anything, but he has some talent.

The Thunder were rumored to be considering not picking up Roby's last year - again, not because he's *bad* but because there are only so many roster spots and they want to look at other players. Roby's played some more since then, so I don't know if that speculation still holds - or if it was ever accurate. But if it was, then swapping him for a bigger player - a different position - might be something they'd be open to (especially if they had scouted Simonovic and liked him pre-draft - you never know). Or it might take a bit of sweetener - cash and/or a 2nd rounder or whatever.

And the Bulls would get their own look-see on a player who fits the need-profile. Maybe he does nothing and sits behind Green and DJJ and small-guards at the 4. Or maybe, like Javonte, he would over-achieve versus what he was doing before.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#728 » by OldSchoolNoBull » Thu Jan 6, 2022 8:10 pm

MGB8 wrote:I'm still leaning hard towards a smaller move - mostly given a realistic assessment of who is available and the value of the Bulls' non-core players.

Isaiah Roby to me would be a perfect fit and might be gettable for just Simonovic (given that there is talk that the Thunder won't even pick up Roby's option for next year for roster space, and the fact that they are loaded with smaller 4 / combo-forward types with Bazely, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, Kenrich Williams. Dort is almost that kind of guy, too, though really small at 6'3. Though speaking of the Thunder, they just waived Gabriel Deck - and he might be worth a tire-kick, himself.

Anyway, besides Poku and "play-older-than-their-age" 30 year olds Favors and Muscala, the team is severely lacking in size. I could see them being interested in a look-see on Simonovic in return for Roby.

The "bigger" move I'd love would be to see two franchises exchange two rookie 2nd round studs / fan favorites - an Ayo (*potentially plus the Portland pick) for Herb Jones swap. Jones was taken 3 picks ahead of Ayo. He's a year and a half older.

I'm not sure that Jones is actually worth more than Ayo in the long term - but he has an extra year on his contract and his plus minus numbers are fantastic (as opposed to Ayo's, which are bad... but context matters - Ayo on a very good team, Jones on an awful one).

Meanwhile, the Pelicans could really, really use someone like Ayo - their back-court talent is Graham, Hart (who isn't much of a shooter and an over-rated, middling, defender), a poor-efficiency NAW and a haven't shown much of anything yet Kira Lewis. They need the defensive intensity.

In a vacuum, a straight swap makes a ton of sense for the Pelicans given that Herb plays Zion's position, and they also added Trey Murphy as a 3 and D combo forward). Don't know if they'd do that - but I would in a second (and I love Ayo - but needs). I'd think about adding the Portland (late, likely not for a couple of years) first, too. Maybe for a 2nd rounder or two back from NOLA in return for the Portland first going out on top of Ayo.


I don't see Roby making any difference at all in the ultimate outcome of our season.

And I am super high on Ayo so the notion of trading him for Herb Jones is not at all appealing to me.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#729 » by step » Thu Jan 6, 2022 10:01 pm

meekrab wrote:
step wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Semi’s already guaranteed. You’re a Bulls fan, you should know better than anyone how important penny pinching is to owners.

Oh I only saw he was on a 1-year vet min deal too. Ooof that's bad.

I get the concept of penny-pinching... but how much are they really going to save? DeMarcus was also on the vet min.
They're supposedly looking to pick someone up... so they'll save what a week or two worth of salary?

Milwaukee's locked into the repeater luxury tax, every dollar they spend on players counts 5x.

If they pick up another vet min deal which by all accounts they are looking to do, the savings are negligible.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#730 » by HomoSapien » Thu Jan 6, 2022 10:03 pm

step wrote:
meekrab wrote:
step wrote:Oh I only saw he was on a 1-year vet min deal too. Ooof that's bad.

I get the concept of penny-pinching... but how much are they really going to save? DeMarcus was also on the vet min.
They're supposedly looking to pick someone up... so they'll save what a week or two worth of salary?

Milwaukee's locked into the repeater luxury tax, every dollar they spend on players counts 5x.

If they pick up another vet min deal which by all accounts they are looking to do, the savings are negligible.


They’re saying it’s about flexibility, but I think that’s just their way of saving face. It’s not like they can openly say it’s about money. Cousins was helping them immensely, they’re not finding anyone better than him on the scrap heap.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#731 » by HomoSapien » Thu Jan 6, 2022 11:49 pm

1985Bear wrote:I wish Lance Stevenson was a little bigger. He is the type of pest I would love to throw at KD, Jimmy, Tatum, Giannis. A vet that can put some odd fouls on the stars and try to get them off their game a little.


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I was just going to post about him. Maybe he is an option if Indy doesn’t keep him. At 6’6”/230LBS he is significantly bigger and stronger than Green and Jones. He’s also a solid rebounder and good defender. Not sure how he’s historically done against Giannis or KD, but I have to imagine that he’d at least body up against them without any fear. He’d also give us another creator/distributor which could be important if Lonzo, DeRozan, Zach, or AC get hurt/protocalled during the playoffs. Bottom line, he’s a guy who can significantly play above his contract when he’s tuned in.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#732 » by GoBlue72391 » Fri Jan 7, 2022 12:13 am

MGB8 wrote:I'm still leaning hard towards a smaller move - mostly given a realistic assessment of who is available and the value of the Bulls' non-core players.

Isaiah Roby to me would be a perfect fit and might be gettable for just Simonovic (given that there is talk that the Thunder won't even pick up Roby's option for next year for roster space, and the fact that they are loaded with smaller 4 / combo-forward types with Bazely, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, Kenrich Williams. Dort is almost that kind of guy, too, though really small at 6'3. Though speaking of the Thunder, they just waived Gabriel Deck - and he might be worth a tire-kick, himself.

Anyway, besides Poku and "play-older-than-their-age" 30 year olds Favors and Muscala, the team is severely lacking in size. I could see them being interested in a look-see on Simonovic in return for Roby.

The "bigger" move I'd love would be to see two franchises exchange two rookie 2nd round studs / fan favorites - an Ayo (*potentially plus the Portland pick) for Herb Jones swap. Jones was taken 3 picks ahead of Ayo. He's a year and a half older.

I'm not sure that Jones is actually worth more than Ayo in the long term - but he has an extra year on his contract and his plus minus numbers are fantastic (as opposed to Ayo's, which are bad... but context matters - Ayo on a very good team, Jones on an awful one).

Meanwhile, the Pelicans could really, really use someone like Ayo - their back-court talent is Graham, Hart (who isn't much of a shooter and an over-rated, middling, defender), a poor-efficiency NAW and a haven't shown much of anything yet Kira Lewis. They need the defensive intensity.

In a vacuum, a straight swap makes a ton of sense for the Pelicans given that Herb plays Zion's position, and they also added Trey Murphy as a 3 and D combo forward). Don't know if they'd do that - but I would in a second (and I love Ayo - but needs). I'd think about adding the Portland (late, likely not for a couple of years) first, too. Maybe for a 2nd rounder or two back from NOLA in return for the Portland first going out on top of Ayo.

I highly doubt they'll trade Roby for Marko, even if they have no intention of retaining him. We had no intention of retaining Lauri yet we didn't dump him for scraps. Roby is no great shakes, but he's at least proven that he'll be able to stick in the league for a while.

Marko is a guy who was likely drafted as a favor and who isn't good enough to get playing time in the preseason or during garbage time in blowouts. If they're deadset on moving Roby they can surely get yet another 2nd round pick or something of that nature for him instead of Marko.

As for Herb Jones, I am interested in him but not at the expense of Ayo, and definitely not at the expense of Ayo + a pick.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#733 » by GoBlue72391 » Fri Jan 7, 2022 12:20 am

Bulls2021 wrote:
MGB8 wrote:I'm still leaning hard towards a smaller move - mostly given a realistic assessment of who is available and the value of the Bulls' non-core players.

Isaiah Roby to me would be a perfect fit and might be gettable for just Simonovic (given that there is talk that the Thunder won't even pick up Roby's option for next year for roster space, and the fact that they are loaded with smaller 4 / combo-forward types with Bazely, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, Kenrich Williams. Dort is almost that kind of guy, too, though really small at 6'3. Though speaking of the Thunder, they just waived Gabriel Deck - and he might be worth a tire-kick, himself.

Anyway, besides Poku and "play-older-than-their-age" 30 year olds Favors and Muscala, the team is severely lacking in size. I could see them being interested in a look-see on Simonovic in return for Roby.

The "bigger" move I'd love would be to see two franchises exchange two rookie 2nd round studs / fan favorites - an Ayo (*potentially plus the Portland pick) for Herb Jones swap. Jones was taken 3 picks ahead of Ayo. He's a year and a half older.

I'm not sure that Jones is actually worth more than Ayo in the long term - but he has an extra year on his contract and his plus minus numbers are fantastic (as opposed to Ayo's, which are bad... but context matters - Ayo on a very good team, Jones on an awful one).

Meanwhile, the Pelicans could really, really use someone like Ayo - their back-court talent is Graham, Hart (who isn't much of a shooter and an over-rated, middling, defender), a poor-efficiency NAW and a haven't shown much of anything yet Kira Lewis. They need the defensive intensity.

In a vacuum, a straight swap makes a ton of sense for the Pelicans given that Herb plays Zion's position, and they also added Trey Murphy as a 3 and D combo forward). Don't know if they'd do that - but I would in a second (and I love Ayo - but needs). I'd think about adding the Portland (late, likely not for a couple of years) first, too. Maybe for a 2nd rounder or two back from NOLA in return for the Portland first going out on top of Ayo.

If any player is gettable straight up for Simonovic, how can they be any good? Simonovic is a guy that may never play another minute in the NBA. He has absolutely no value.

Exactly. We can't expect other teams to trade us players who can actually contribute (even if it's in a limited role) for our non-NBA talent trash. I would be shocked if Marko even became a 13th man.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#734 » by Wingy » Fri Jan 7, 2022 3:02 am

NecessaryEvil wrote:
problymchyld04 wrote:he’s undersized, but the only guy im interested in whereas we might need to give up coby+ picks etc. is OG Anouby from the raptors


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They literally have no reason to trade OG


Yeah, folks gotta just stop with the Raptor trades. They have no need to tear it down. The only trades that could go down w/Toronto would be near-term impact, win-wins.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#735 » by Michael Jackson » Fri Jan 7, 2022 3:11 am

Wingy wrote:
NecessaryEvil wrote:
problymchyld04 wrote:he’s undersized, but the only guy im interested in whereas we might need to give up coby+ picks etc. is OG Anouby from the raptors


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They literally have no reason to trade OG


Yeah, folks gotta just stop with the Raptor trades. They have no need to tear it down. The only trades that could go down w/Toronto would be near-term impact, win-wins.



Agreed and lets not act like Masai is some dummy. Boucher might be available though but anything beyond that is unlikely and Masai will want his pound of flesh in any trade.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#736 » by Michael Jackson » Fri Jan 7, 2022 3:16 am

1985Bear wrote:I wish Lance Stevenson was a little bigger. He is the type of pest I would love to throw at KD, Jimmy, Tatum, Giannis. A vet that can put some odd fouls on the stars and try to get them off their game a little.


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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#737 » by Wingy » Fri Jan 7, 2022 3:46 am

Michael Jackson wrote:
1985Bear wrote:I wish Lance Stevenson was a little bigger. He is the type of pest I would love to throw at KD, Jimmy, Tatum, Giannis. A vet that can put some odd fouls on the stars and try to get them off their game a little.


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Did he blow in your ear last night?


Awkward, but both these posts are begging for a TWSS.
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#738 » by panthermark » Fri Jan 7, 2022 1:49 pm

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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#739 » by prolific passer » Fri Jan 7, 2022 5:32 pm

Hmm. What about Mo Bamba?
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Re: Options to fix the PF hole 

Post#740 » by Bulls2021 » Fri Jan 7, 2022 5:34 pm

prolific passer wrote:Hmm. What about Mo Bamba?

What about him? Not sure I've seen his name in rumors. Are you suggesting him for PF or as a backup C?

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