NBA Trade Thread #12

[burlydee]

Im guessing Kuminga wants about $25 million a year. Maybe $30? I think Golden State is likely to want expirings back. I want Kuminga but are the Bulls going to commit to paying Giddey and Kuminga nearly 55-70 million in the same summer?

It all depends on Kuminga's price point for me. If the Bulls can get him on s value deal, yes. But he shouldn't be getting more than 3 years 48 million in my opinion.

AK is notoriously bad in these negotiations.

[sco]

Im guessing Kuminga wants about $25 million a year. Maybe $30? I think Golden State is likely to want expirings back. I want Kuminga butane the Bulls going to commit to paying Giddey and Kuminga nearly 55-70 million on the same Summer?

It all depends on Kuminga's price point for me. Of the Bulls can get him on s value deal, yes. But he shouldn't be getting more than 3 years 48 million to me.

AK is notoriously bad in these negotiations.

Kuminga is a RFA, if all GS wanted were expirings, wouldn't they just not offer more than the QO or let him walk? The problem is that I think the Bulls can only offer the non-tax MLE, which Kuminga won't sign...he'd sooner take the QO.

Somebody will offer him at least $20M and probably get him for that without GS matching. I'm just want it to be BKN so they don't go after Giddey.

I used to want Kuminga, but his lack of defense coupled with subpar 3pt shooting isn't the sort of skillset I'd want to make a 4 year swing on.

[burlydee]

Im guessing Kuminga wants about $25 million a year. Maybe $30? I think Golden State is likely to want expirings back. I want Kuminga butane the Bulls going to commit to paying Giddey and Kuminga nearly 55-70 million on the same Summer?

It all depends on Kuminga's price point for me. Of the Bulls can get him on s value deal, yes. But he shouldn't be getting more than 3 years 48 million to me.

AK is notoriously bad in these negotiations.

Kuminga is a RFA, if all GS wanted were expirings, wouldn't they just not offer more than the QO or let him walk? The problem is that I think the Bulls can only offer the non-tax MLE, which Kuminga won't sign...he'd sooner take the QO.

Somebody will offer him at least $20M and probably get him for that without GS matching. I'm just want it to be BKN so they don't go after Giddey.

I used to want Kuminga, but his lack of defense coupled with subpar 3pt shooting isn't the sort of skillset I'd want to make a 4 year swing on.

I think they'll want guys who can play on expiring contracts because of the financial commitment to Jimmy and Curry. Getting a rotation player a 2nd round pick is probably better than nothing because they can't sign free agents.

[sco]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/280405/Mavericks-To-Target-Acquisition-Of-Point-Guard-In-Offseason

I prefer Jones to Ball (but I'm doubting we can keep him), but if we could, I'd love to trade Ball or Ayo plus filler for Gafford.

[jnrjr79]

Im guessing Kuminga wants about $25 million a year. Maybe $30? I think Golden State is likely to want expirings back. I want Kuminga butane the Bulls going to commit to paying Giddey and Kuminga nearly 55-70 million on the same Summer?

It all depends on Kuminga's price point for me. Of the Bulls can get him on s value deal, yes. But he shouldn't be getting more than 3 years 48 million to me.

AK is notoriously bad in these negotiations.

Kuminga is a RFA, if all GS wanted were expirings, wouldn't they just not offer more than the QO or let him walk? The problem is that I think the Bulls can only offer the non-tax MLE, which Kuminga won't sign...he'd sooner take the QO.

Somebody will offer him at least $20M and probably get him for that without GS matching. I'm just want it to be BKN so they don't go after Giddey.

I used to want Kuminga, but his lack of defense coupled with subpar 3pt shooting isn't the sort of skillset I'd want to make a 4 year swing on.

There is nobody besides Brooklyn who can offer him $20M as it currently stands, so I don't see that's happening unless Brooklyn wants to do it. All other bidders would be limited to the MLE or less.

It seems like GS should be looking for a sign-and-trade here, just to see if they can get something back. I take your point, though, that GS could just let him walk rather than take on expirings, but maybe they'd do it for a player they think is useful for 1 season and a 2nd or something like that.

[jnrjr79]

Im guessing Kuminga wants about $25 million a year. Maybe $30? I think Golden State is likely to want expirings back. I want Kuminga butane the Bulls going to commit to paying Giddey and Kuminga nearly 55-70 million on the same Summer?

It all depends on Kuminga's price point for me. Of the Bulls can get him on s value deal, yes. But he shouldn't be getting more than 3 years 48 million to me.

AK is notoriously bad in these negotiations.

Kuminga is a RFA, if all GS wanted were expirings, wouldn't they just not offer more than the QO or let him walk? The problem is that I think the Bulls can only offer the non-tax MLE, which Kuminga won't sign...he'd sooner take the QO.

Somebody will offer him at least $20M and probably get him for that without GS matching. I'm just want it to be BKN so they don't go after Giddey.

I used to want Kuminga, but his lack of defense coupled with subpar 3pt shooting isn't the sort of skillset I'd want to make a 4 year swing on.

There is nobody besides Brooklyn who can offer him $20M as it currently stands, so I don't see that's happening unless Brooklyn wants to do it. All other bidders would be limited to the MLE or less.

It seems like GS should be looking for a sign-and-trade here, just to see if they can get something back. I take your point, though, that GS could just let him walk rather than take on expirings, but maybe they'd do it for a player they think is useful for 1 season and a 2nd or something like that.

If you're the Bulls, maybe you offer Vooch's expiring + a 2nd and see if GS bites. The question would be on whether Kuminga would just want to play on the QO for a year, but then he's stuck in GS, so he might have a tough time rehabbing his value. He's only 22, so maybe he'd do 3 years or something like that at $20M-ish and go back onto the market at 25.

EDIT - this was supposed to be an edit to my prior post rather than quoting myself, lol.

[sco]

Im guessing Kuminga wants about $25 million a year. Maybe $30? I think Golden State is likely to want expirings back. I want Kuminga butane the Bulls going to commit to paying Giddey and Kuminga nearly 55-70 million on the same Summer?

It all depends on Kuminga's price point for me. Of the Bulls can get him on s value deal, yes. But he shouldn't be getting more than 3 years 48 million to me.

AK is notoriously bad in these negotiations.

Kuminga is a RFA, if all GS wanted were expirings, wouldn't they just not offer more than the QO or let him walk? The problem is that I think the Bulls can only offer the non-tax MLE, which Kuminga won't sign...he'd sooner take the QO.

Somebody will offer him at least $20M and probably get him for that without GS matching. I'm just want it to be BKN so they don't go after Giddey.

I used to want Kuminga, but his lack of defense coupled with subpar 3pt shooting isn't the sort of skillset I'd want to make a 4 year swing on.

There is nobody besides Brooklyn who can offer him $20M as it currently stands, so I don't see that's happening unless Brooklyn wants to do it. All other bidders would be limited to the MLE or less.

It seems like GS should be looking for a sign-and-trade here, just to see if they can get something back. I take your point, though, that GS could just let him walk rather than take on expirings, but maybe they'd do it for a player they think is useful for 1 season and a 2nd or something like that.

As a practical matter, could somebody explain how a S&T can work with a team that can't sign a player for what he wants outright? Say GS and Kuminga agree to the concept, how could the Bulls, for example, pay him $20M if he agreed he'd take that amount and we could give GS players they'd want who match Kuminga's appropriate salary number?

[Infinity2152]

Kuminga is a RFA, if all GS wanted were expirings, wouldn't they just not offer more than the QO or let him walk? The problem is that I think the Bulls can only offer the non-tax MLE, which Kuminga won't sign...he'd sooner take the QO.

Somebody will offer him at least $20M and probably get him for that without GS matching. I'm just want it to be BKN so they don't go after Giddey.

I used to want Kuminga, but his lack of defense coupled with subpar 3pt shooting isn't the sort of skillset I'd want to make a 4 year swing on.

There is nobody besides Brooklyn who can offer him $20M as it currently stands, so I don't see that's happening unless Brooklyn wants to do it. All other bidders would be limited to the MLE or less.

It seems like GS should be looking for a sign-and-trade here, just to see if they can get something back. I take your point, though, that GS could just let him walk rather than take on expirings, but maybe they'd do it for a player they think is useful for 1 season and a 2nd or something like that.

As a practical matter, could somebody explain how a S&T can work with a team that can't sign a player for what he wants outright? Say GS and Kuminga agree to the concept, how could the Bulls, for example, pay him $20M if he agreed he'd take that amount and we could give GS players they'd want who match Kuminga's appropriate salary number?

He signs a contract for $20+ mill with GS and is traded for a player making $20 mill. The receiving team doesn't need $20 mill of cap space, I don't think. We're sending the $20 mil player. GS can go over the cap to re-sign their own player and immediately trade him. We never have to make him a contract offer at all, he just has to agree to sign with GS, knowing he's going to be traded. If the Nets don't make him a contract offer, that's likely the only way he gets paid this summer.

Kuminga's accepting an offer and signing a contract with GS. Then they trade that contract for roughly equal contract(s).

[jnrjr79]

There is nobody besides Brooklyn who can offer him $20M as it currently stands, so I don't see that's happening unless Brooklyn wants to do it. All other bidders would be limited to the MLE or less.

It seems like GS should be looking for a sign-and-trade here, just to see if they can get something back. I take your point, though, that GS could just let him walk rather than take on expirings, but maybe they'd do it for a player they think is useful for 1 season and a 2nd or something like that.

As a practical matter, could somebody explain how a S&T can work with a team that can't sign a player for what he wants outright? Say GS and Kuminga agree to the concept, how could the Bulls, for example, pay him $20M if he agreed he'd take that amount and we could give GS players they'd want who match Kuminga's appropriate salary number?

He signs a contract for $20+ mill with GS and is traded for a player making $20 mill. The receiving team doesn't need $20 mill of cap space, I don't think. We're sending the $20 mil player. GS can go over the cap to re-sign their own player and immediately trade him. We never have to make him a contract offer at all, he just has to agree to sign with GS, knowing he's going to be traded. If the Nets don't make him a contract offer, that's likely the only way he gets paid this summer.

Kuminga's accepting an offer and signing a contract with GS. Then they trade that contract for roughly equal contract(s).

Yeah, this is basically the situation for an over-the-cap team like the Bulls project to be. If you have cap space, it can ease or eliminate the salary matching requirements depending how much space you have. If you’re not just over the cap but over aprons, you may have other restrictions. But for the Bulls, effectively they just have to salary match with Kuminga, so Vooch would be my idea if they were willing to lock him in at $20M/year.

The caveat here is you can’t do the S&T if the player actually signs an offer sheet with you. So, the Bulls couldn’t offer him the MLE, then have him sign that, then instead do it as a trade (not that they’d want to).

If you assume Kuminga only wants something above the MLE and would play on the QO if he can’t get that much $$, then nobody but Brooklyn projects to be able to acquire him for anything other than a S&T. Relatedly, this is why it’s tough to say what the market for Giddey will be, because he’s in the exact same boat. His market value if everyone had space would be north of the MLE, but only 1 team in the league can actually offer him that besides Chicago. Brooklyn has some weird control over the RFA market this offseason.

[Infinity2152]

Stories coming out reason Kuminga was benched was his tendency to look for his own shots outside the offense. Game against the Blazers, looked off Curry multiple times and p*ssed Kerr off. Understandable if true, Warriors are the definition of a system team.

[jordanwilliams6]

Stories coming out reason Kuminga was benched was his tendency to look for his own shots outside the offense. Game against the Blazers, looked off Curry multiple times and p*ssed Kerr off. Understandable if true, Warriors are the definition of a system team.

You can even see it during the current series when he’s playing well. It looks like Kuminga does his own thing on the court whenever he feels like it.

Golden State are probably the best system team in the league. It’s not surprising that Kerr has had enough after trying to coach him for years but he has no choice but to play him whilst Curry is out.

If Kuminga was on a poor team with bad coaching, he’d probably put him 25 PPG on 20 shots and lead his team to a 15-67 record. Just like Jordan Poole.

[kodo]

Im guessing Kuminga wants about $25 million a year. Maybe $30? I think Golden State is likely to want expirings back. I want Kuminga but are the Bulls going to commit to paying Giddey and Kuminga nearly 55-70 million in the same summer?

It all depends on Kuminga's price point for me. If the Bulls can get him on s value deal, yes. But he shouldn't be getting more than 3 years 48 million in my opinion.

AK is notoriously bad in these negotiations.

Reports said Kuminga wanted $35M. GS were willing to sign at $30M, Kuminga's camp refused.

[2weekswithpay]

Kuminga is a RFA, if all GS wanted were expirings, wouldn't they just not offer more than the QO or let him walk? The problem is that I think the Bulls can only offer the non-tax MLE, which Kuminga won't sign...he'd sooner take the QO.

Somebody will offer him at least $20M and probably get him for that without GS matching. I'm just want it to be BKN so they don't go after Giddey.

I used to want Kuminga, but his lack of defense coupled with subpar 3pt shooting isn't the sort of skillset I'd want to make a 4 year swing on.

There is nobody besides Brooklyn who can offer him $20M as it currently stands, so I don't see that's happening unless Brooklyn wants to do it. All other bidders would be limited to the MLE or less.

It seems like GS should be looking for a sign-and-trade here, just to see if they can get something back. I take your point, though, that GS could just let him walk rather than take on expirings, but maybe they'd do it for a player they think is useful for 1 season and a 2nd or something like that.

As a practical matter, could somebody explain how a S&T can work with a team that can't sign a player for what he wants outright? Say GS and Kuminga agree to the concept, how could the Bulls, for example, pay him $20M if he agreed he'd take that amount and we could give GS players they'd want who match Kuminga's appropriate salary number?

GS would sign Kuminga to 20M AVV contract using their bird rights and then trade him to the Bulls for whatever the agreement was.

As long as we aren't above the apron after the trade, we can take back any salary amount in a sign & trade. The amount we have to send back depends on whether Base Year Compensation applies to this trade.

[Infinity2152]

Im guessing Kuminga wants about $25 million a year. Maybe $30? I think Golden State is likely to want expirings back. I want Kuminga but are the Bulls going to commit to paying Giddey and Kuminga nearly 55-70 million in the same summer?

It all depends on Kuminga's price point for me. If the Bulls can get him on s value deal, yes. But he shouldn't be getting more than 3 years 48 million in my opinion.

AK is notoriously bad in these negotiations.

Reports said Kuminga wanted $35M. GS were willing to sign at $30M, Kuminga's camp refused.

Think his agent seriously miscalculated the market. When there's only one team outside the Warriors in the entire league who can offer even $30 mill, you take the $30 mill, lol. Be dumb for the Nets to overpay for him when they have Cam Johnson, think his max offer will end up low 20's in a S&T with someone.

Bulls should just wait to see what the Nets do. They control the entire restricted free agent market. Giddey's a great target for them but given the fact that the Bulls probably match the highest they can offer, why waste the time when there are so many other teams that won't match big offers, like the T Wolves for Reid or Warriors for Kuminga plus their choice of unrestricted free agents. They can easily bring D' Angelo Russell back for cheaper, where's he going to go and get paid?

Nets phones will be blowing up, every agent for every RFA and free agent will be trying to use them for leverage this summer.

[leo921]

Celtics Tatum hurt for the year and new ownership wants to cut there cap moving forward.

What about White for Vuc/Carter/12th pick.

Celtics get expiring contracts and a draft pick.

Bulls lineup becomes Derrick White/Coby White/Giddy/Matas/Collins still have Ayo/Ball/Williams/Phillips/Smith off the bench.
For those who are going to bring up Giddy, remember he can not defend against most PGs and needs to be hid on slower 3/4s, that is why White comes in

[sco]

Celtics Tatum hurt for the year and new ownership wants to cut there cap moving forward.

What about White for Vuc/Carter/12th pick.

Celtics get expiring contracts and a draft pick.

Bulls lineup becomes Derrick White/Coby White/Giddy/Matas/Collins still have Ayo/Ball/Williams/Phillips/Smith off the bench.
For those who are going to bring up Giddy, remember he can not defend against most PGs and needs to be hid on slower 3/4s, that is why White comes in

White is the last guy they are moving. They'll start by letting Horford go. Then try to dump Holiday, perhaps adding pieces to get rid of him. Then maybe KP.

[Infinity2152]

I'd think White is most at risk of being traded. They're not trading Tatum or Brown, that's $107 mill right there next year. They let Horford and Porzingas go to keep White, who are the bigs? Holiday would be the one they want to move, but he'll be the hardest at 34 with 3 more years on his contract. Celtics only have their own picks to add, which will be low, they don't have a ton of draft assets anymore.

If the new owners want to clear cap, the best they can do is expirings, since nobody has cap space now. Porzingas is expiring anyway, what would be the point of trading him for expirings? Only the Nets can absorb straight cap at that level.

Tatum's out next year, I'd offer them Coby and Vucevic for White/filler straight up, and they could take it or leave it. Okay, they could get that Portland 1st. They could still be competitive this year and clear over $60 mill in the summer between Porzingas, Vucevic and White.

[boozapalooza]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/280405/Mavericks-To-Target-Acquisition-Of-Point-Guard-In-Offseason

I prefer Jones to Ball (but I'm doubting we can keep him), but if we could, I'd love to trade Ball or Ayo plus filler for Gafford.

Gafford is too low ceiling for my liking, plus I think a C-needy contender will be willing to pay more. That said I think we match up well in a PG deal with Dallas

I’m more intrigued by Naji Marshall in return. He really flashed post-Kyrie. Averaged 19.8/7.3/3.6 in 16 games in March and had 20+ points in 10/12 games, including dropping 38 on NY. Just finished year 1 of a very reasonable 3/27 contract. He becomes redundant and should available in Dallas with Flagg on board.

[Salo23]

It was reported that “significant groundwork” was achieved in talks between the Bulls and Warriors at the trade deadline involving a Vucevic trade in the offseason. I thought it was ridiculous at first, but now I can see it based upon a potential Kuminga sign and trade…

I was very surprised to learn that we had signed Lonzo Ball to a contract extension right before the trade deadline, a team friendly deal that includes only one year guaranteed, with a team option on the second year, 2 years, $20M total. This contract extension was negotiated at the same time the Bulls and Warriors were engaged in trade talks surrounding Vucevic.

Kuminga signed for $20-25M per year could be accomplished with just Vucevic and maybe a protected pick (Portlands?) while Kuminga at closer to $30M per year could be matched almost exactly with Vucevic’s $20M expiring and Ball’s new $10M per contracts.

Remember when we first acquired Ball for Satoransky, Temple and a pick? That sign and trade was announced almost immediately after the opening of free agency. Yeah there was most likely tampering involved, but I can only assume they laid out the groundwork for that deal at the previous trade deadline, when AKME attempted to trade for Lonzo months earlier.

[sco]

It was reported that “significant groundwork” was achieved in talks between the Bulls and Warriors at the trade deadline involving a Vucevic trade in the offseason. I thought it was ridiculous at first, but now I can see it based upon a potential Kuminga sign and trade…

I was very surprised to learn that we had signed Lonzo Ball to a contract extension right before the trade deadline, a team friendly deal that includes only one year guaranteed, with a team option on the second year, 2 years, $20M total. This contract extension was negotiated at the same time the Bulls and Warriors were engaged in trade talks surrounding Vucevic.

Kuminga signed for $20-25M per year could be accomplished with just Vucevic and maybe a protected pick (Portlands?) while Kuminga at closer to $30M per year could be matched almost exactly with Vucevic’s $20M expiring and Ball’s new $10M per contracts.

Remember when we first acquired Ball for Satoransky, Temple and a pick? That sign and trade was announced almost immediately after the opening of free agency. Yeah there was most likely tampering involved, but I can only assume they laid out the groundwork for that deal at the previous trade deadline, when AKME attempted to trade for Lonzo months earlier.

I love conspiracy theories. This one is a good one. Will give me a chance to dream for a month or so.

edit: Was just thinking about the Bulls' being very cautious with Ball...wanting to make sure he didn't need surgery on wrist...hmm.