Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[panthermark]

Also Love has a dimension Bosh doesn't, he still scores in the paint. As I've noted his post up numbers were more efficient than Pau last year, and a healthy 23% of his shots come from there.

Will he score in the paint in Cleveland, though? Not at the same level, or with as many shots of his coming from that area.

With AV already in there, and that painted area needing to be cleared out for Lebron, i will be surprised if Love is on the block much outside of rebounding purposes.

I almost hate to admit it.....but Bron improved his game quite a bit when he added a three point shot.
He shot 40.6% from deep 2 years ago (3.3 attempts per game) and 37.9% from deep last year (4.0 attempts per game).

He does not need floor spaced like he used to....and Love can pull his man (one of the bigs) nearly 20 feet from the rim. Not to mention Irving keeping his man away from being able to help...and if they add more shooters?

If they get Love, they are going to run the hell out of 3/4 and 3/5 screen roll/pops.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Under that logic Mirotic has already been gifted $17 million that he has yet to earn.

Nope.

If he was a top 10 pick, say 8th over all, his contract regardless of play would be:

14-15: 2.3m
15-16: 2.4m
16-17: 2.5m

He is being paid more than your average rookie due to the fact that he could earn 2-3m easily in Europe, he has a buyout and you need to pay him to get him over here.

Even Bojan Bogdanovic is earning 10m over 3, which is more than what McDermott will be earning over the same period.

You need to pay these Euro's to get them over. It's not free money, as you need to deduct a rookie scale deal from their wage, but at the same time, i don't see Thibodeau of all coaches gifting any rookie minutes based on their contract if they don't know the system.

Why the assumption Mirotic won't know the system? Mirotic has been scouted, paid and not traded because Gar/Pax clearly believe he can play. He's performed at a high level against top notch competititon, professionals. Thibs saying what he has to say to lower expectations and take pressure away is just good coaching. If Taj is moved, I hardly think it's absurd to believe Mirotic can play back up minutes right away like Omer and Taj himself did before as rookies.

[GimmeDat]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBARumorPress/status/492692924485087232[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBARumorPress/status/492691850873290754[/tweet]

Have we mentioned these tweets?

Obviously we're looking to contend straight away, but I like Thompson and potentially Bennett as pieces. That said, I much prefer to keep all of Mirotic/Taj/McD.

Honestly, the only thing I feel willing to give up right now in a trade is MDJ and pick(s). Otherwise, I want to run with what we've got.

[kingkirk]

Why the assumption Mirotic won't know the system? Mirotic has been scouted, paid and not traded because Gar/Pax clearly believe he can play. He's performed at a high level against top notch competititon, professionals. Thibs saying what he has to say to lower expectations and take pressure away is just good coaching. If Taj is moved, I hardly think it's absurd to believe Mirotic can play back up minutes right away like Omer and Taj himself did before as rookies.

Why would Mirotic know the system from the get go when professionals who have been brought in who were already established in this league took time to get the hang of it?

I am not saying Nikola, at some point during the season, won't be able to contribute. All i am saying is that it may take some time with a slow build up.

[DanTown8587]

have a good day. We agree to disagree.

So polite!

I wasn't trying to be smug, just seems like we're going to "yell" at each other about how wrong the other's opinion is. Not why I'm here.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Why the assumption Mirotic won't know the system? Mirotic has been scouted, paid and not traded because Gar/Pax clearly believe he can play. He's performed at a high level against top notch competititon, professionals. Thibs saying what he has to say to lower expectations and take pressure away is just good coaching. If Taj is moved, I hardly think it's absurd to believe Mirotic can play back up minutes right away like Omer and Taj himself did before as rookies.

Why would Mirotic know the system from the get go when professionals who have been brought in who were already established in this league took time to get the hang of it?

I am not saying Nikola, at some point during the season, won't be able to contribute. All i am saying is that it may take some time with a slow build up.

Fair enough. But I'd rather take my chances with Mirotic learning the system for 20 minutes a night than watching Dunleavy and Butler try and create offense on their own when Derrick's not out there to spoon feed them. Mirotic at least has upside. Butler and Dunleavy don't as SG's who can create their own offense, provide volume scoring. And a starting SG is a lot more important to this team than a back up PF playing behind Pau Gasol and Joakim Noah.

[DanTown8587]

Make Love the 2nd option with Irving as the 3rd option you can't leave open....and I bet Love's numbers rise quite a bit.

Love's efficiency as a #1 was already higher than Bosh's was as a #1.

So if he sees any kind of jump similar to Bosh did in joining with LeBron, the league better watch out.

I'm not really worried about that leap because a lot of Love's efficiency comes from a high volume of FTA. That type of scoring will go down for him obviously.

If you told me which guy do you want to be my #1 option, I'd take Love. If you asked me which guy do I want to be my #3 option, I'd take Bosh. Bosh has a better game suited for that and he's a better defender and he's a better teammate in the sense I don't see Love being ok with games getting 7-12 shots like Bosh routinely got.

Chris Bosh is a better overall basketball player than Kevin Love is today but I'd rather give a four year deal to Love so I can see why Cleveland is giving up all their assets to get him.

[othawhitemeat]

To be honest I don't even think this Cleveland team is as good as Miami. I asked this question yesterday with no answer how will they maximize Lebron's abilities? The guy wants to pass he always wants to pass that's why Miami always had him surrounded by 3pt shooters, but who are the shooters for cleveland really? The guys that they do have out there to shoot the 3 aren't really spot up specialist like he had in Miami and those guys aren't good defenders either so while they may hit a few FTs we have the size to throw them in the post with our wings who are all tall for their position. Cleveland with or without Love doesn't scare me at all.

Really?

Love and Irving are both better shooters than Wade and Bosh were. Bosh made himself a 3pt shooter over time, but Love can already do it.

Mike Miller just followed him to Cleveland...and Ray-Ray might do the same.

Waiters is more of a scorer than a shooter....but if Mike Miller is playing in his place, the only guy that can't knock down threes is AV. I don't even want to think about the Bron/Love two man game. Yikes!

The Bulls need one more shot creator at the 2 guard or small forward position. I have stated over and over on Burks/Dragic, etc....

However, if the Cavs end up with Lebron, Irving, Love, Verajao, Miller, Ray Allen as the core and somehow lose Waiters, Thompson, Wiggins, etc.. in the trade, outside of Lebron they have an extremely old or injury ridden type team with less depth if they can't get good ring chasers. The Bulls Rose, Noah, and Gasol are injury pragued, but the depth is great this year. We just need to hope for a healthy Rose and some trade for someone like Burks.

[panthermark]

I really do wonder how their D will be if they get Love.

Here are the team DRtg rankings for every year Bron has been in the league. You can see the drop-off the Cavs had when he left (7th to 29th).

19th
12th
14th
11th
3rd
7th
5th (29th)
4th (26th)
9th (27th)
11th (19th)

[BullsFTW]

Make Love the 2nd option with Irving as the 3rd option you can't leave open....and I bet Love's numbers rise quite a bit.

Love's efficiency as a #1 was already higher than Bosh's was as a #1.

So if he sees any kind of jump similar to Bosh did in joining with LeBron, the league better watch out.

I'm not really worried about that leap because a lot of Love's efficiency comes from a high volume of FTA. That type of scoring will go down for him obviously.

If you told me which guy do you want to be my #1 option, I'd take Love. If you asked me which guy do I want to be my #3 option, I'd take Bosh. Bosh has a better game suited for that and he's a better defender and he's a better teammate in the sense I don't see Love being ok with games getting 7-12 shots like Bosh routinely got.

Chris Bosh is a better overall basketball player than Kevin Love is today but I'd rather give a four year deal to Love so I can see why Cleveland is giving up all their assets to get him.

Yea. As much as we make fun of Bosh, he's actually a decent player. He's able to play both ends of the court. I'm actually intrigue to see how he plays without LBJ.

[johnnyvann840]

just seems like we're going to "yell" at each other about how wrong the other's opinion is. Not why I'm here.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74ZhrGR0D0Y[/youtube]

[kingkirk]

Fair enough. But I'd rather take my chances with Mirotic learning the system for 20 minutes a night than watching Dunleavy and Butler try and create offense on their own when Derrick's not out there to spoon feed them. Mirotic at least has upside. Butler and Dunleavy don't as SG's who can create their own offense, provide volume scoring. And a starting SG is a lot more important to this team than a back up PF playing behind Pau Gasol and Joakim Noah.

I am all about mitigating risk, that's all.

If Mirotic proves worthy of 20 minutes a night, Taj is on the block as far as im concerned.

However, we don't know that yet, therefore i have reservations about dealing Gibson this early on.

I am not trying to say we don't have signs or areas of weakness on the wings. We do. All i am trying to illustrate is that we have time to correct these issues, and with time, hopefully we can make the most informed decision going forward with our roster.

Hell, Mirotic may be thrown into the fire early on ahead of schedule if Gasol or Noah get hurt for an extended period. This would be one reason as to why i'd like to keep Taj around initially unless a deal that is too good to refuse comes along.

Yes, i see the gaps at the 2, but for me, that gap isn't big enough to deal Gibson now if the guy we're getting back is Kevin Martin.

Later on, if Mirotic develops, shows sign that he can give 15-20 minutes as the season progresses and if weren't getting much from Dun & Snell?

Yeah, then it's time to seriously explore those options.

[othawhitemeat]

He played 10 MPG

He played 12 mpg, and in his final 7 playoff games played 16 mpg until getting hurt. Omer was absolutely an impact player by the end of the season, and against the best team in the conference too.

He was by the end of the season. Hey, I'm one of the guys who think id Omer doesn't fracture his leg, that series is different. But he was also par tof a big rotation of .. Jo, Taj, Boozer, Omer, and Big Sexy.. we had four guys who had started in the league on that team. this year we are not as loaded at the bigs with proven players as people think... if one of Jo or Pau go down for even a month, we are in serious trouble if we deal Taj

I agree, but let me ask a question. Let's say the Suns resign Bledsoe long-term along with the signing of I. Thomas. The Suns need impact players in the front court. Would you do Taj/Snell/Sac pick for Dragic/one of the Morris twins? Then while Morris not anywhere near as good as Taj, you have a good backup PF and Gasol can be the backup Center when not playing PF. We can still develop Mirotic, but get the playmaking guard we need besides Rose? Bulls won't do it, but that is a way to alleviate losing Taj.

[johnnyvann840]

I really do wonder how their D will be if they get Love.

Here are the team DRtg rankings for every year Bron has been in the league. You can see the drop-off the Cavs had when he left (7th to 29th).

19th
12th
14th
11th
3rd
7th
5th (29th)
4th (26th)
9th (27th)
11th (19th)

What is the 5th 4th 9th and 11th? Is that Miami?

[Polynice4Pippen]

Fair enough. But I'd rather take my chances with Mirotic learning the system for 20 minutes a night than watching Dunleavy and Butler try and create offense on their own when Derrick's not out there to spoon feed them. Mirotic at least has upside. Butler and Dunleavy don't as SG's who can create their own offense, provide volume scoring. And a starting SG is a lot more important to this team than a back up PF playing behind Pau Gasol and Joakim Noah.

I am all about mitigating risk, that's all.

If Mirotic proves worthy of 20 minutes a night, Taj is on the block as far as im concerned.

However, we don't know that yet, therefore i have reservations about dealing Gibson this early on.

I am not trying to say we don't have signs or areas of weakness on the wings. We do. All i am trying to illustrate is that we have time to correct these issues, and with time, hopefully we can make the most informed decision going forward with our roster.

Hell, Mirotic may be thrown into the fire early on ahead of schedule if Gasol or Noah get hurt for an extended period. This would be one reason as to why i'd like to keep Taj around initially unless a deal that is too good to refuse comes along.

Yes, i see the gaps at the 2, but for me, that gap isn't big enough to deal Gibson now.

Later on, if Mirotic develops, shows sign that he can give 15-20 minutes as the season progresses and if weren't getting much from Dun & Snell?

Yeah, then it's time to seriously explore those options.

We're not gonna make any major midseason trades, let's be realistic. Thibs isn't revamping his rotation in the middle of a season barring major injuries. The time to make deals is the offseason so Thibs has a full training camp with everyone.

[othawhitemeat]

If not Martin who are the other SG's out there that you see who can fill our hole? Any news on Alec burks? With gordon hayward staying their backcourt seems crowded.

Would people really want to give up Taj for Burks?

Because you aren't getting him with Dunleavy.

Would the Jazz do Burks for Snell and a 1st round pick? Burks might just be a 6th man next year and on will be a free agent next year while Snell could improve and the Jazz get a first.

[DanTown8587]

Fair enough. But I'd rather take my chances with Mirotic learning the system for 20 minutes a night than watching Dunleavy and Butler try and create offense on their own when Derrick's not out there to spoon feed them. Mirotic at least has upside. Butler and Dunleavy don't as SG's who can create their own offense, provide volume scoring. And a starting SG is a lot more important to this team than a back up PF playing behind Pau Gasol and Joakim Noah.

I am all about mitigating risk, that's all.

If Mirotic proves worthy of 20 minutes a night, Taj is on the block as far as im concerned.

However, we don't know that yet, therefore i have reservations about dealing Gibson this early on.

I am not trying to say we don't have signs or areas of weakness on the wings. We do. All i am trying to illustrate is that we have time to correct these issues, and with time, hopefully we can make the most informed decision going forward with our roster.

Hell, Mirotic may be thrown into the fire early on ahead of schedule if Gasol or Noah get hurt for an extended period. This would be one reason as to why i'd like to keep Taj around initially unless a deal that is too good to refuse comes along.

Yes, i see the gaps at the 2, but for me, that gap isn't big enough to deal Gibson now.

Later on, if Mirotic develops, shows sign that he can give 15-20 minutes as the season progresses and if weren't getting much from Dun & Snell?

Yeah, then it's time to seriously explore those options.

But what about the fact that you can't just tell Minnesota to hold onto Martin and we'll call back in December or January? Are you saying Taj Gibson is off the table in all trades? If not, what is the baseline for what you'd consider acceptable for trading Taj.

I ask this question because clearly a Martin+others deal for Taj+Dunleavy isn't good enough so I wonder what IS good enough to trade Taj.

[panthermark]

The Bulls need one more shot creator at the 2 guard or small forward position. I have stated over and over on Burks/Dragic, etc....

However, if the Cavs end up with Lebron, Irving, Love, Verajao, Miller, Ray Allen as the core and somehow lose Waiters, Thompson, Wiggins, etc.. in the trade, outside of Lebron they have an extremely old or injury ridden type team with less depth if they can't get good ring chasers. The Bulls Rose, Noah, and Gasol are injury pragued, but the depth is great this year. We just need to hope for a healthy Rose and some trade for someone like Burks.

Yes, outside of Love and Irving, they would be old...and outside of Bron, an injury risk. But Gasol is 34 and Rose is the biggest injury risk of them all.

We have a lot of players and potential, but a good chunk of our depth is unproven. Also, from a synergy stand point, they blow us out of the water.

Someone mentioned that AV occupies the paint. If AV does....so does Noah. The difference is that they have more outside shooters to clear the paint (Ivring, Bron, Love, and maybe who ever else is at SG...like Miller), and more true ball handlers to drive the lanes (Irving, Bron).

Yes their depth will be thin and we will probably beat them in the regular season. But come post season and shorter rotations, their top tier talent wins. We can only hope that their rookie coach and first time play-off players crap the bed.

[othawhitemeat]

I wouldn't mind Gorgui Dieng either. 6'11 and 238. In his rookie year, he put up 5 & 5 in 13-14 mins. Double his mins, he's averaging a double x2 per game.

I would only give up Taj if we get back Dieng and Waiters (not Martin). Waiters while a hot-head can be dumped or just dropped at end of year as he is a free agent if we don't want him.

[panthermark]

I really do wonder how their D will be if they get Love.

Here are the team DRtg rankings for every year Bron has been in the league. You can see the drop-off the Cavs had when he left (7th to 29th).

19th
12th
14th
11th
3rd
7th
5th (29th)
4th (26th)
9th (27th)
11th (19th)

What is the 5th 4th 9th and 11th? Is that Miami?

Yup..