Pat Williams Discussion - Out 4-6 Mo (late Feb to late April)

sco · Post #741 » by **sco** » Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:26 pm

dougthonus wrote:After seeing the definition, no duh.

DISABLED PLAYER EXCEPTION -- This exception allows a team which is over the cap to replace a disabled player who will be out for the remainder of that season (it can also be granted in the event of a player's death). This exception is granted by the league, based on an application from the team and a determination by an NBA-designated physician or Fitness to Play panel (see question number 62) that the player is substantially more likely than not to be unable to play through the following June 15.

They have to think he is substantially more likely than not to be out all the way through the NBA finals. His timeline based on reports is March 1-May 1 and even the pessimistic case has him back well before June 15.

Sure, but it seems like there was no downside (only upside) for asking, so why not? I would have been helpful at the deadline.

Post #742 » by **dougthonus** » Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:39 pm

sco wrote:
dougthonus wrote:After seeing the definition, no duh.

DISABLED PLAYER EXCEPTION -- This exception allows a team which is over the cap to replace a disabled player who will be out for the remainder of that season (it can also be granted in the event of a player's death). This exception is granted by the league, based on an application from the team and a determination by an NBA-designated physician or Fitness to Play panel (see question number 62) that the player is substantially more likely than not to be unable to play through the following June 15.

They have to think he is substantially more likely than not to be out all the way through the NBA finals. His timeline based on reports is March 1-May 1 and even the pessimistic case has him back well before June 15.

Sure, but it seems like there was no downside (only upside) for asking, so why not? I would have been helpful at the deadline.

Agreed. I'm sure they asked because why not ask. Just saying that we shouldn't read anything into it nor feel like we got cheated.

Jvaughn · Post #743 » by **Jvaughn** » Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:22 pm

Bulls2021 wrote:
Jvaughn wrote:
Bulls2021 wrote:This says a lot about how the Bulls FO views Pat this season. They either think he won't return, or he'll be so ineffective that a DPE is the better option.

I don't think it says anything about how they feel about Pat. If approved you're given another roster spot and money to make moves. If Pat comes back before the season ends, then that's just a bonus.

So you can use the DPE AND get the player back who you were granted a DPE because of?

Yes. If the league believes there's a high likelihood that player will be out for the season, and the player beats the timeline for return, you can't be punished for him. You'll have to make moves for the active roster rules when they return though.

TheFinishSniper · Post #744 » by **TheFinishSniper** » Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:49 pm

Bulls can always make another request if Williams suffers setback. Or medical staff decides it would be in his best interest to miss returning this year. My guess is Bulls tried to use DPE for cap advantage before deadline, NBA declined in till they are sure he wont come back.

ChettheJet · Post #745 » by **ChettheJet** » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:52 pm

I guess it went unnoticed but in the NW Hearld story on the game it said PW had the pins removed from his wrist. I noticed he had on a different black brace on his wrist during last night's game. Not an orthopedist but to me that would seem to suggest that the healing process is going well. I believe that the bones can heal more quickly or at least get stronger without the screws.

sco · Post #746 » by **sco** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 2:23 am

ChettheJet wrote:I guess it went unnoticed but in the NW Hearld story on the game it said PW had the pins removed from his wrist. I noticed he had on a different black brace on his wrist during last night's game. Not an orthopedist but to me that would seem to suggest that the healing process is going well. I believe that the bones can heal more quickly or at least get stronger without the screws.

Yeah, I noticed that brace too!

Chi town · Post #747 » by **Chi town** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:01 am

ChettheJet wrote:I guess it went unnoticed but in the NW Hearld story on the game it said PW had the pins removed from his wrist. I noticed he had on a different black brace on his wrist during last night's game. Not an orthopedist but to me that would seem to suggest that the healing process is going well. I believe that the bones can heal more quickly or at least get stronger without the screws.

Nice find!

Anyone know the timing of what’s next after pins out?

Pax for Prez · Post #748 » by **Pax for Prez** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:35 pm

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1476696253891330049%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fchicago-bulls

Portiseyes · Post #749 » by **Portiseyes** » Sun Jan 2, 2022 12:21 am

Sucks with Patrick losing the year of development, and obv my main concern for the dude is that there aren't any long-term impacts.

My thoughts on Patrick from last Summer aren't much changed because of the lost development, though his play at the beginning of the season was concerning, mostly because of the lack of rebounding which made it seem like Patrick was playing a bit scared or else is just not a 4. Main thought from the Summer was he needed to get in better shape at endurance and explosion. Thought he needed to put a lot of work in with his dribble but that's going to be impacted the most (I guess) by his injury and not sure what he can do now, even with the above update.

Hopefully he puts a ton of work into dribbling skills during recovery. He's looked methodical with his decision making at the NBA level, which is probably tougher w/o a shoot-first mentality. In addition to trusting his instincts and training, an improved handle would be huge for him.

Chi town · Post #750 » by **Chi town** » Sun Jan 2, 2022 5:58 am

Pax for Prez wrote:

Read on Twitter
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1476696253891330049%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fchicago-bulls

No bueno.

StunnerKO · Post #751 » by **StunnerKO** » Sun Jan 2, 2022 11:39 am

He’s not wearing a cast

wolffy · Post #752 » by **wolffy** » Sun Jan 2, 2022 1:01 pm

If theyre calling that a cast, its a pretty loose definition right

Chi town · Post #753 » by **Chi town** » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:41 pm

If he’s not coming back this season then we have to trade for his replacement and ideally trade him for that replacement.

Post #754 » by **HomoSapien** » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:45 pm

If the disabled player exception had been granted, would Pat had to have sit the entire week no matter what? If so, that definitely should signal to all of us that the Bulls don’t want to risk playing him this year.

Bulls2021 · Post #755 » by **Bulls2021** » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:53 pm

HomoSapien wrote:If the disabled player exception had been granted, would Pat had to have sit the entire week no matter what? If so, that definitely should signal to all of us that the Bulls don’t want to risk playing him this year.

From what I read, they can still come back and play even if the DPE was granted.

Dez · Post #756 » by **Dez** » Sun Jan 2, 2022 10:11 pm

Chi town wrote:If he’s not coming back this season then we have to trade for his replacement and ideally trade him for that replacement.

No we do not.

sco · Post #757 » by **sco** » Thu Jan 6, 2022 7:23 pm

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bulls-art-ras-karni-ovas-154715763.html

GoBlue72391 · Post #758 » by **GoBlue72391** » Thu Jan 6, 2022 11:00 pm

I'm not sure what to expect from PWill if/when he returns, but considering how timid and unimpactful he was prior to the injury I wouldn't get my hopes too high, at least not for this season. I don't think we should just hand him his starting spot back either after missing the majority of the season.

My concern is that by the time he's likely to return, the season will be close to over, we'll be preparing for the playoffs, and our rotation will be pretty firm by then. Remember how awful Coby was the first 10 or so games after returning from injury? We won't have the luxury of letting PWill work through that during the playoffs.

Post #759 » by **HomoSapien** » Thu Jan 6, 2022 11:14 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:I'm not sure what to expect from PWill if/when he returns, but considering how timid and unimpactful he was prior to the injury I wouldn't get my hopes too high, at least not for this season. I don't think we should just hand him his starting spot back either after missing the majority of the season.

My concern is that by the time he's likely to return, the season will be close to over, we'll be preparing for the playoffs, and our rotation will be pretty firm by then. Remember how awful Coby was the first 10 or so games after returning from injury? We won't have the luxury of letting PWill work through that during the playoffs.

We’re bonafide contenders now too. It was one thing trying to develop him as we developed our team, but we’re just in a much different place from the start of the season. It’s hard to argue that a rusty Patrick Williams should take minutes away from Green or Jones heading into the playoffs. At best, if Williams were to return this season he should probably be used sparingly as an emergency option. I just don’t see a world where he’s successfully worked back into the rotation without hurting the team.

kodo · Post #760 » by **kodo** » Thu Jan 6, 2022 11:29 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:I'm not sure what to expect from PWill if/when he returns, but considering how timid and unimpactful he was prior to the injury I wouldn't get my hopes too high, at least not for this season. I don't think we should just hand him his starting spot back either after missing the majority of the season.

My concern is that by the time he's likely to return, the season will be close to over, we'll be preparing for the playoffs, and our rotation will be pretty firm by then. Remember how awful Coby was the first 10 or so games after returning from injury? We won't have the luxury of letting PWill work through that during the playoffs.

Donovan also said Patrick had conditioning problems even before the injury, so his conditioning wasn't great even when he was healthy.

TBH I was surprised that someone his age came into camp with conditioning problems, that's usually something you seem from vets in their 30s.