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Red8911 wrote:Who cares about this meaningless award ? I’m sure Coby have made money out of it but for us as fans these awards don’t really matter.

To me, for a while there I was (as I often am) fooled by his decent stretch of outperformance, only to be followed by a regression to the mean to end the season. And the real question now isn't whether or how much he improved, but is he good enough to cement the job of the Bulls starting PG (or SG I guess) going forward?

sco wrote:To me, for a while there I was (as I often am) fooled by his decent stretch of outperformance, only to be followed by a regression to the mean to end the season. And the real question now isn't whether or how much he improved, but is he good enough to cement the job of the Bulls starting PG (or SG I guess) going forward?

My answer to that question is Yes. You can win a title with Coby White as a starter. He can't be one of your top three starters -- at Boston, he wouldn't be a Top 5 player -- but he can get the job done, on a team with enough top-level talent.

But the real question is if you keep him, or if you move him in the attempt to get the top-level talent that the Bulls now lack.

Ice Man wrote:

sco wrote:To me, for a while there I was (as I often am) fooled by his decent stretch of outperformance, only to be followed by a regression to the mean to end the season. And the real question now isn't whether or how much he improved, but is he good enough to cement the job of the Bulls starting PG (or SG I guess) going forward?

My answer to that question is Yes. You can win a title with Coby White as a starter. He can't be one of your top three starters -- at Boston, he wouldn't be a Top 5 player -- but he can get the job done, on a team with enough top-level talent.

But the real question is if you keep him, or if you move him in the attempt to get the top-level talent that the Bulls now lack.

Good points. I'm a big believer that you need your number 1 option before building the rest of the roster. To that end, I think the answer to your question is yes, but that means it would need to be for a pick that has a good chance at a top 5 outcome, and I don't think he'd fetch us that (maybe as part of a package?).

sco wrote:I'm a big believer that you need your number 1 option before building the rest of the roster.

I agree with that, although I would extend that principle to include the #2 option. I mean, you're gonna need two studs, at the minimum. So to move a stud that you already have, in the hopes of getting somebody better in exchange? Nah ... not for me. Not unless the timing isn't right, as when OKC shipped Paul George.

sco wrote:To me, for a while there I was (as I often am) fooled by his decent stretch of outperformance, only to be followed by a regression to the mean to end the season. And the real question now isn't whether or how much he improved, but is he good enough to cement the job of the Bulls starting PG (or SG I guess) going forward?

He's probably the 4th best player on a contending team.
Clippers: behind Kawhi, Harden, PG13.
Minny: behind Ant, KAT, Gobert.
OKC: behind SGA, Jalen, Chet.
PHO: Behind KD, Booker, Beal, and I'd argue Grayson Allen is more important because they need tough D.
BOS: Behind Tatum, Brown, Jrue, probably White because again you need defense more than a 4th scorer.

But I don't think that means you trade him for a low return. I look at how San Antonio handled Dejounte who also isn't a #1 on a contender either. They didn't just let him walk in FA. They signed him, let him start, let him pile up a ton of stats on teams that lost most of their games, and then traded him for a major haul (3 1st rounders). I don't think we're really maximizing Coby's value for a trade, and I think the same happened for Lavine and the same for Markkanen.

The irony of that is that Murray's value didn't really explode until they got rid of Derozan.

jordanwilliams6 wrote:Anyone who is trying to argue that Coby has barely improved from his second season is straight up delusional.

I haven't seen anyone arguing that. For my part, of course, he has improved. If he hadn't, he likely would be sitting at the end of the bench.

That is a very different discussion than:

-does he deserve MIP?
-is he all-star, or near all-star talent?
-is he a high quality starter who can play the role of a number 1 or 2 scorer on a quality team?
-is that improvement more than what should be expected for year 3 through 5 player of his age?
-how much did that improvement translate into measurable production?

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kodo wrote:He's probably the 4th best player on a contending team.
Clippers: behind Kawhi, Harden, PG13.
Minny: behind Ant, KAT, Gobert.
OKC: behind SGA, Jalen, Chet.
PHO: Behind KD, Booker, Beal, and I'd argue Grayson Allen is more important because they need tough D.
BOS: Behind Tatum, Brown, Jrue, probably White because again you need defense more than a 4th scorer.

Boston has 6 players that had higher scores this year on for every advanced stat that attempts to summarize a player's contribution: PER, VORP, Win Shares per 48, and BPM -

Tatum
Porzingis
Horford
Jrue
White
Brown

Politely, I think this board has lost its collective mind over Coby. He finished the year with a below NBA average PER of 14.3, and that stat largely ignores defense, which isn't one of Coby's strengths.

That said, he has two points in his favor. One, he's young and two he has improved every year he has been in the league.

he's a good offensive player and makes great decisions. His problem is obviously his defense and getting targeted on the defensive end in switches. Does his positive offensive impact outweigh his poor defensive impact?
With a team of solid defenders around him... probably
But as some have suggested, he's probably not a future all star so there is an argument for selling high.
The Bulls gutting and starting over with new management and rookies/picks is their only hope in my sh&*^ opinion.