Bulls Might Now Be More Likely To Trade Luol Deng

[Ice the knees]

Thibs kind of indirectly says that Deng is a top 10 player in the league.

"His teammates know how important he is," Thibodeau said. "If you really study what he does, he's one of the few guys in the league who is a huge plus at both ends, probably top-10. He's a great defender. He's a great offensive player. And he's a winning player.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-1204-bulls-chicago-20131204,0,2454593.story

I read that, but I have to believe that he meant he was a top 10 offensive SF and top 10 defensive SF.

It doesn't matter if you agree with Thibs as your opinion is set. But give me a break that Thibs doesn't mean the stuff he says about Deng. I think its possible he's actually adopted Deng, and we just don't know it yet. Saying he doesn't mean what he says is a desperate argument to support your insistence that Deng is an overrated role player. You don't like having one of the best basketball minds on earth disagree with you so blatantly. It doesn't mean you're wrong, naturally. But just accept that Thibs specifically, and NBA coaches generally, think your opinion is of the wrong variety.

Anyway, what Thibs is clearly saying there is that Deng is a top 10 "two way player." I.e., among players that produce on both ends of the court, Deng is top 10. That does not mean, of course, that he's a top 10 player over all. Which he clearly isn't.

You are nuts, and so is thibs, if you think deng is a top 10 player. Period

Is a terrible basketball evaluation by all counts

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[Ice the knees]

I read that, but I have to believe that he meant he was a top 10 offensive SF and top 10 defensive SF.

It doesn't matter if you agree with Thibs as your opinion is set. But give me a break that Thibs doesn't mean the stuff he says about Deng. I think its possible he's actually adopted Deng, and we just don't know it yet. Saying he doesn't mean what he says is a desperate argument to support your insistence that Deng is an overrated role player. You don't like having one of the best basketball minds on earth disagree with you so blatantly. It doesn't mean you're wrong, naturally. But just accept that Thibs specifically, and NBA coaches generally, think your opinion is of the wrong variety.

Anyway, what Thibs is clearly saying there is that Deng is a top 10 "two way player." I.e., among players that produce on both ends of the court, Deng is top 10. That does not mean, of course, that he's a top 10 player over all. Which he clearly isn't.

You are nuts, and so is thibs, if you think deng is a top 10 player. Period

Is a terrible basketball evaluation by all counts


Edit_. It seems you and I ate in agreement. He wasn't talking about a top 10 overall player. I believe he was qualifying it as well
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Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[DuckIII]

I read that, but I have to believe that he meant he was a top 10 offensive SF and top 10 defensive SF.

It doesn't matter if you agree with Thibs as your opinion is set. But give me a break that Thibs doesn't mean the stuff he says about Deng. I think its possible he's actually adopted Deng, and we just don't know it yet. Saying he doesn't mean what he says is a desperate argument to support your insistence that Deng is an overrated role player. You don't like having one of the best basketball minds on earth disagree with you so blatantly. It doesn't mean you're wrong, naturally. But just accept that Thibs specifically, and NBA coaches generally, think your opinion is of the wrong variety.

Anyway, what Thibs is clearly saying there is that Deng is a top 10 "two way player." I.e., among players that produce on both ends of the court, Deng is top 10. That does not mean, of course, that he's a top 10 player over all. Which he clearly isn't.

You are nuts, and so is thibs, if you think deng is a top 10 player. Period

Is a terrible basketball evaluation by all counts

I agree. Which suggests you should re-read the last two sentences of my post.

EDIT: Saw your edit.

[League Circles]

Anyway, what Thibs is clearly saying there is that Deng is a top 10 "two way player." I.e., among players that produce on both ends of the court, Deng is top 10. That does not mean, of course, that he's a top 10 player over all. Which he clearly isn't.

This. This, this, this. And it's damn true. Deng is a better player than about 10 guys who aren't a bit of a problem on either offense or defense. Guys like Melo, Tony Parker, Kevin Love, etc can be defensive problems with some regularity. Guys like Joakim Noah, Dwight Howard, Tony Allen, etc can be offensive problems. The guys who are better "two way players" than Deng is a pretty small list. It's guys like Lebron, Paul George, Russell Westbrook, etc. Once upon a time guys like Kobe and Kevin Garnett too of course.

[mj234eva]

Deng's last 5 games he is averaging 27.4p 6.2a 6.0r on 54.8%fg.

Last 3:

45 mpg ( Luol Chamberlain)
30.3 ppg, 59.4% shooting, 37.5% from 3.
6.0 rpg
7.7 apg

[Ice Man]

The guys who are better "two way players" than Deng is a pretty small list. It's guys like Lebron, Paul George, Russell Westbrook, etc.

Perhaps more than 10. But even if he was wrong, Thibs was close.

[Doom]

i hope he understands that we are paying for his services 3-4 years down the line, not right now... he will be way out of his prime then and will be worth much less. 12 million is the most he should be paid.

[Ice the knees]

It doesn't matter if you agree with Thibs as your opinion is set. But give me a break that Thibs doesn't mean the stuff he says about Deng. I think its possible he's actually adopted Deng, and we just don't know it yet. Saying he doesn't mean what he says is a desperate argument to support your insistence that Deng is an overrated role player. You don't like having one of the best basketball minds on earth disagree with you so blatantly. It doesn't mean you're wrong, naturally. But just accept that Thibs specifically, and NBA coaches generally, think your opinion is of the wrong variety.

Anyway, what Thibs is clearly saying there is that Deng is a top 10 "two way player." I.e., among players that produce on both ends of the court, Deng is top 10. That does not mean, of course, that he's a top 10 player over all. Which he clearly isn't.

You are nuts, and so is thibs, if you think deng is a top 10 player. Period

Is a terrible basketball evaluation by all counts

I agree. Which suggests you should re-read the last two sentences of my post.

EDIT: Saw your edit.

I can agree Deng is a top 2 way player. But I still worry about his offensive consistency. If Deng lapses, it's almost always on the offensive end. He'll have games where he doesn't even look at the hoop...I always wonder why that is with Deng...He's said himself that he is too easily taken out of rhythm sometimes...I don't know...But over the course of 10 years, there is definitely something amiss when it comes to Deng and offense...I don't know if it's a lack of focus/talent/or just working so hard on defense but I would definitely still be very skeptical of Deng's recent play

[Rerisen]

In 2009 Ben Gordon was the only player in the league to average over 20 pts, 3 rbs, 3 ast, and 40% beyond the arc. Wow huh? You'd still take a handful of SGs over him even then.

The point is, such arbitrary rankings as being argued about Deng mean little. Is Jimmy Butler a better two way player than Carmelo Anthony? And if so, not only does it not really matter, but what are the arbitrary evaluations that cause you to be considered having 'one way' on offense or defense. Is it over 10 points a game on offense? Over league average efficiency (which Deng has just last game eeked past)? Something else? What are the measurements for defense?

If you were to look at say the top impacting NBA players by RAPM last year, and counting only players that did not have a negative rating on either offense or defense, Deng would not be top 10. I.e. Russell Westbrook was a 'plus' defender last year, so was Durant. Marc Gasol was a 'plus' offensive player, so was Tim Duncan. Many would be ahead of him.

Ironically, last year Deng rated out as a marginally negative offensive player via RAPM, and by raw plus/minus was only +0.1 per 100 possessions.

Thibs comments are as usual, to praise Luol for his tireless efforts out there, and secondarily, likely to continue to try and influence the FO about his importance to keep around.

[sco]

2 way player rankings are like ranking the best looking women in Ivy League schools. Sure it matters, but it is really saying the best offensive players who are good defenders, more than saying the best defenders among the offensively talented. Deng isn't, hasn't been nor will he ever be the type of offensive player who can carry a team (i.e. be efficient when double-teamed). He has consistently (almost yearly) had stretches like this early in the season, only to go through longer stretches where he shoots 5/13 for seemingly weeks on end.

Sell high!

[SteveDobbs]

2 way player rankings are like ranking the best looking women in Ivy League schools. Sure it matters, but it is really saying the best offensive players who are good defenders, more than saying the best defenders among the offensively talented. Deng isn't, hasn't been nor will he ever be the type of offensive player who can carry a team (i.e. be efficient when double-teamed). He has consistently (almost yearly) had stretches like this early in the season, only to go through longer stretches where he shoots 5/13 for seemingly weeks on end.

Sell high!

While I disagree with your notion that Ivy League Schools can't have just as hot of women (See Natalie Portman), with you 100% on the rest.

Luol has been a great Bull and he's a valuable member of this team, but unless you're getting a really good shot creator on a minimum contract or rookie scale, resigning him is a bad move.

[dice]

I disagree with your notion that Ivy League Schools can't have just as hot of women (See Natalie Portman)

yeeeah, but she got into the ivy league partly because she was famous. and she's famous in large part because she's attractive

the higher the level of educational accomplishment, the less likely a woman is to be physically attractive. that's just a fact of life

anyway...luol deng