2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th!

[leo921]

Sounds like you would have drafted Emeka Okafor over Dwight Howard. Sometimes athleticism and talent pan out. Wiseman has those qualities.

How about Kwame Brown in 2000, he dominated HS so bad he didnt need college to go number 1
Sounds like you wouldve drafted Darko Milcic. He dominated overseas more then Wiseman has.
What about someone more american and only did well in high school and not college like Robert Swift in 2004. 12th pick
What about Darius Miles picked 3rd in 2000 with no college games and dominating no one

So again who has Wiseman played and what has he done?

I guess you would have taken Carmelo over LeBron. Jay Williams over Yao Ming. Derrick Williams over Kyrie

The point is sometimes it goes the other way and talent sometimes trumps experience.

To pretend that one particular criteria ("who he play against?") satisfies a draft decision is nonsense.

Your funny, thankfully I love to laugh.
Carmelo never played Lebron before the draft and even then you could see that Melo was a killer scorer but was not a defender or had a all around game. Even in HS Lebron was an amazing passer and did everything so yeah I would go Lebron.

Yao had a history, he played in Olympics, did workouts and you can tell he was the 1st pick. Jay i dont think wouldve been a top PG in the league. I would guess out of the 30 starting PGs he would be like 12-15, not poor but not exactly dominate either.

Williams was the worst kinda tweener and when big guys dominate in college in there 2-3 years that is the guy you want to run away from. Thomas Robinson is another perfect example of this. Exactly why I want to avoid Toppin at all cost, hes 22, yes a 22 yr old kid should dominate the 18 yr kid, plus he couldnt defend arm chair.

So again what has Wiseman done?

Your welcome and if you have anymore questions I am here to ask.

[Chi town]

How about Kwame Brown in 2000, he dominated HS so bad he didnt need college to go number 1
Sounds like you wouldve drafted Darko Milcic. He dominated overseas more then Wiseman has.
What about someone more american and only did well in high school and not college like Robert Swift in 2004. 12th pick
What about Darius Miles picked 3rd in 2000 with no college games and dominating no one

So again who has Wiseman played and what has he done?

I guess you would have taken Carmelo over LeBron. Jay Williams over Yao Ming. Derrick Williams over Kyrie

The point is sometimes it goes the other way and talent sometimes trumps experience.

To pretend that one particular criteria ("who he play against?") satisfies a draft decision is nonsense.

Your funny, thankfully I love to laugh.
Carmelo never played Lebron before the draft and even then you could see that Melo was a killer scorer but was not a defender or had a all around game. Even in HS Lebron was an amazing passer and did everything so yeah I would go Lebron.

Yao had a history, he played in Olympics, did workouts and you can tell he was the 1st pick. Jay i dont think wouldve been a top PG in the league. I would guess out of the 30 starting PGs he would be like 12-15, not poor but not exactly dominate either.

Williams was the worst kinda tweener and when big guys dominate in college in there 2-3 years that is the guy you want to run away from. Thomas Robinson is another perfect example of this. Exactly why I want to avoid Toppin at all cost, hes 22, yes a 22 yr old kid should dominate the 18 yr kid, plus he couldnt defend arm chair.

So again what has Wiseman done?

Your welcome and if you have anymore questions I am here to ask.

Leo gonna be here busting chops all night!

[StunnerKO]

I can’t wait till October or December or whatever

[cjbulls]

How about Kwame Brown in 2000, he dominated HS so bad he didnt need college to go number 1
Sounds like you wouldve drafted Darko Milcic. He dominated overseas more then Wiseman has.
What about someone more american and only did well in high school and not college like Robert Swift in 2004. 12th pick
What about Darius Miles picked 3rd in 2000 with no college games and dominating no one

So again who has Wiseman played and what has he done?

I guess you would have taken Carmelo over LeBron. Jay Williams over Yao Ming. Derrick Williams over Kyrie

The point is sometimes it goes the other way and talent sometimes trumps experience.

To pretend that one particular criteria ("who he play against?") satisfies a draft decision is nonsense.

Your funny, thankfully I love to laugh.
Carmelo never played Lebron before the draft and even then you could see that Melo was a killer scorer but was not a defender or had a all around game. Even in HS Lebron was an amazing passer and did everything so yeah I would go Lebron.

Yao had a history, he played in Olympics, did workouts and you can tell he was the 1st pick. Jay i dont think wouldve been a top PG in the league. I would guess out of the 30 starting PGs he would be like 12-15, not poor but not exactly dominate either.

Williams was the worst kinda tweener and when big guys dominate in college in there 2-3 years that is the guy you want to run away from. Thomas Robinson is another perfect example of this. Exactly why I want to avoid Toppin at all cost, hes 22, yes a 22 yr old kid should dominate the 18 yr kid, plus he couldnt defend arm chair.

So again what has Wiseman done?

Your welcome and if you have anymore questions I am here to ask.

So you just made up some fake hindsight scouting reports and think your point is somehow made?

You original point on Wiseman is you cannot take him because he hasn’t played anyone. Then you sort of make an exception for LeBron, you make a completely opposite point about Yao (he had a workout and played in the Olympics against no one), and you completely ignore Kyrie.

Guess you wouldn’t have drafted Giannis, Garnett, Kobe, or Dirk while you were at it.

I mean, you can’t seriously believe just because a player hasn’t played in a successful college season that means they aren’t worth drafting. Right?

[WindyCityBorn]

Give me Avdija if the top 3 goes as expected. I'm just happy we actually moved up for a change.

[leo921]

I guess you would have taken Carmelo over LeBron. Jay Williams over Yao Ming. Derrick Williams over Kyrie

The point is sometimes it goes the other way and talent sometimes trumps experience.

To pretend that one particular criteria ("who he play against?") satisfies a draft decision is nonsense.

Your funny, thankfully I love to laugh.
Carmelo never played Lebron before the draft and even then you could see that Melo was a killer scorer but was not a defender or had a all around game. Even in HS Lebron was an amazing passer and did everything so yeah I would go Lebron.

Yao had a history, he played in Olympics, did workouts and you can tell he was the 1st pick. Jay i dont think wouldve been a top PG in the league. I would guess out of the 30 starting PGs he would be like 12-15, not poor but not exactly dominate either.

Williams was the worst kinda tweener and when big guys dominate in college in there 2-3 years that is the guy you want to run away from. Thomas Robinson is another perfect example of this. Exactly why I want to avoid Toppin at all cost, hes 22, yes a 22 yr old kid should dominate the 18 yr kid, plus he couldnt defend arm chair.

So again what has Wiseman done?

Your welcome and if you have anymore questions I am here to ask.

So you just made up some fake hindsight scouting reports and think your point is somehow made?

You original point on Wiseman is you cannot take him because he hasn’t played anyone. Then you sort of make an exception for LeBron, you make a completely opposite point about Yao (he had a workout and played in the Olympics against no one), and you completely ignore Kyrie.

Guess you wouldn’t have drafted Giannis, Garnett, Kobe, or Dirk while you were at it.

I mean, you can’t seriously believe just because a player hasn’t played in a successful college season that means they aren’t worth drafting. Right?

Let me Help you with some current hindsight.

Toppin is going to be terrible, again 22 yr olds playing against 18yr olds and can only dominate on offense not defense.

Vassell is going to be a great 3 and D role player. No he is not going to breakdown the defense off the dribble but he will be a valuable role player like Danny Green, Mikal Bridges mold.

Hayes I can see being a better Ntilkana, just has good on Defense and better on offense. Ntilkana can shoot okay but can not really drive, Hayes can attack a scrambling defense.

Deni is eventually going to be a better Gallanari. Shooting secondary playmaker. Got better more consitant shooting once play restarted, 19 and more experience then any college player.

If you need more help just ask I am here for you

[StunnerKO]

Watch on YouTube

[nomorezorro]

the thing about wiseman is that even skilled offensive centers with some rim protection ability can be relatively underwhelming unless they are legit elite on defense or they're somehow transcendent offensively. if you end up drafting a hassan whiteside-caliber player in the top 5, are you really happy with that?

[RastaBull]

Hayes is my guy on this day haha. The Ringer articles got me excited for his overall BPA possible status (at least at 4) ... AND his possible fit.

In April, O'Connor wrote about Killian Hayes being the possible #1 overall. Lots of good stuff on him: https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/15/21220970/nba-draft-killian-hayes-2020-top-prospect The Ringer featured him again just this last week: https://www.theringer.com/2020/8/20/21376264/2020-nba-draft-lottery-lamelo-ball-killian-hayes

I think he could be best prospect, most well-rounded, out of all our last three (WCJ/Lauri/Coby). Seems like he could be a heck of a piece to glue all those other's together.

He's played at a professional level and just turned 19 this July. His size, 6'5", is great for a guard. Especially at point, but creates versatility with guard rotations and with small ball options. His length, 6'8", add to that versatility with better likelihood he can defense both guard positions. At a professional level he's shown a "headiness" on defense although no special level of athleticism. You can't coach those measurables though.

His vision seems to be pretty special. I love his ability to sling passes out to 3P line at all sorts of angles. White/Lavine/Lauri ... we need a PG that can and wants to find them while they are all spread around. This kid has that potential to really unlock all three of them (I think this would be great for Lauri!)

His P'n'R seems to be a specialty too. IMO, that's an area that could help unlock both our bigs. If he can come in and develop a P'n'R relationship with WCJ and/or Lauri, that would be brilliant.

His FT% is 80%+. His 3P% is weak, but also not a huge sample size. He DOES have a BIG sample size of FT; so not only is it a good %, which generally bodes well for 3P development in NBA, but it also shows this kid like contact and gets to the line!!


Biggest con has seem to be he's too dependent on his left hand. I'm fine with that for a just-turned-19 prospect. That is something you can develop out of. This kid seems to have a lot of qualities you can't coach as easily, and brings to the table what you'd love as a coach in terms of being able to coach him up further. That seem perfect for a team that could be hiring a 1st-year coach with pedigree focused in player development.

[Andi Obst]

Well, you don’t necessarily take a prospect on what they’ve done. Otherwise Ben Simmons and his losing LSU stint would’ve dropped him out the lotto.

Wiseman’s got question marks, but if you do look at his raw abilities, he’s huge, athletic and defensively aware. There is an offensive game.

His offensive game is rim running. 100% reliant on teammates. Defensive awareness is an issue, too, IMO. And he will have to show that ge can guard away from the basket, which I don't think he can right now.

He's huge, that's certainly true and that's why he is projected to go that high. I don't think that's nearly enough to justify a top 5 selection.

[wolffy]

The reason you dont know how good wiseman can be is the same reason he might be available. Theres certainly a big risk with him but if you believe his high school hype and his small sample size, u might think hes the chance for a franchise player in this subpar draft. Not saying i agree with that assessment but i can see the logic if youre a gambler.

[wolffy]

As for the pgs, i have a really difficult time with anyone that struggles with the 3. Its just a non starter in my book. Maybe if they have really special playmaking but even then its probably a no for me.

Sadly that takes Ball completely out imo. Id rather trade him.

Haliburton or Hayes
Hayes looks ok but i dont like his game. it looks too pedestrian. Haliburton i like good bit better. He just seems more impactful.

[heir_jordan22]

Your funny, thankfully I love to laugh.
Carmelo never played Lebron before the draft and even then you could see that Melo was a killer scorer but was not a defender or had a all around game. Even in HS Lebron was an amazing passer and did everything so yeah I would go Lebron.

Yao had a history, he played in Olympics, did workouts and you can tell he was the 1st pick. Jay i dont think wouldve been a top PG in the league. I would guess out of the 30 starting PGs he would be like 12-15, not poor but not exactly dominate either.

Williams was the worst kinda tweener and when big guys dominate in college in there 2-3 years that is the guy you want to run away from. Thomas Robinson is another perfect example of this. Exactly why I want to avoid Toppin at all cost, hes 22, yes a 22 yr old kid should dominate the 18 yr kid, plus he couldnt defend arm chair.

So again what has Wiseman done?

Your welcome and if you have anymore questions I am here to ask.

So you just made up some fake hindsight scouting reports and think your point is somehow made?

You original point on Wiseman is you cannot take him because he hasn’t played anyone. Then you sort of make an exception for LeBron, you make a completely opposite point about Yao (he had a workout and played in the Olympics against no one), and you completely ignore Kyrie.

Guess you wouldn’t have drafted Giannis, Garnett, Kobe, or Dirk while you were at it.

I mean, you can’t seriously believe just because a player hasn’t played in a successful college season that means they aren’t worth drafting. Right?

Let me Help you with some current hindsight.

Toppin is going to be terrible, again 22 yr olds playing against 18yr olds and can only dominate on offense not defense.

Vassell is going to be a great 3 and D role player. No he is not going to breakdown the defense off the dribble but he will be a valuable role player like Danny Green, Mikal Bridges mold.

Hayes I can see being a better Ntilkana, just has good on Defense and better on offense. Ntilkana can shoot okay but can not really drive, Hayes can attack a scrambling defense.

Deni is eventually going to be a better Gallanari. Shooting secondary playmaker. Got better more consitant shooting once play restarted, 19 and more experience then any college player.

If you need more help just ask I am here for you

Wendell Carter or Wiseman. Who would you rather have? Carter played against plenty of talented guys and teams at Duke.

[StunnerKO]

Watch on YouTube

[wonderboy2]

I like Dani Adjiva but I have some major questions about his game. My major question with Toppin will be with NBA coaching can he be a better defender. It’s not a physical problem with Toppin it’s all about his technique and getting out of position. I saw a big improvement in Markannan from NBA Summer League to his rookie year just from NBA coaching and getting stronger. Of course he regressed his 3rd year though. But my major concern with Adjiva is his Shooting and defense. To be a good Small forward in the NBA you better be able to knockdown 3’s or you better be able to defend your ass off and be an Elite slasher. Deni free throw shooting gives me pause. Also will he have the ability to guard the Tatumns, Simmons,Browns, Leanords, Georges, of the NBA? Also How tall is he is closer to 6’7 or is he closer to 6’10. He looks around 6’9 to me which is good. But he still only 19 and have a lot of time to correct his weaknesses. Just don’t see him beating out Porter as a starter if the bulls draft him.

[Senor Chang]

I think Killian is my guy. That step-back three of his is butter. I do like Advida, Toppin, and Haliburton. In fact all three probably have a higher floor than Hayes, but if Killian can simply keep doing what he's doing he just might be the guy to turn us into a winner again.

[Andi Obst]

if you end up drafting a hassan whiteside-caliber player in the top 5, are you really happy with that?

Of course not, that would be terrible. I do think, however, that Wiseman will at least be better than Whiteside. Don't view him as a lazy guy like that. DeAndre Jordan is probably the better comp at least for now IMO.

[Jvaughn]

if you end up drafting a hassan whiteside-caliber player in the top 5, are you really happy with that?

Of course not, that would be terrible. I do think, however, that Wiseman will at least be better than Whiteside. Don't view him as a lazy guy like that. DeAndre Jordan is probably the better comp at least for now IMO.

To come out of this draft with a guy that can give you 16/14/3 with a 25 PER would be amazing. Not sure what you guys are realistically expecting out of this draft.

[Andi Obst]

if you end up drafting a hassan whiteside-caliber player in the top 5, are you really happy with that?

Of course not, that would be terrible. I do think, however, that Wiseman will at least be better than Whiteside. Don't view him as a lazy guy like that. DeAndre Jordan is probably the better comp at least for now IMO.

To come out of this draft with a guy that can give you 16/14/3 with a 25 PER would be amazing. Not sure what you guys are realistically expecting out of this draft.

First off all, PER is useless and always was (even Hollinger said you shouldn't use it anymore). It's just throwing boxscore stats together and can't measure anything beyond that, which is obviously perfect for nice stats, bad impact players like Whiteside. As to why Whiteside sucks: he limits you defensively to the point where you can only play him in a drop coverage because he just can't keep up with anyone (which is why the Blazers got destroyed from 3 all year), he gambles for blocks all the time, which hurts his interior defense overall and offensively he's a PnR finisher and that's it. Completely dependent on the creators around him who, good for him, are Dame and CJ. You can't run any offense through him because he can't pass and you also don't want him to post up.

He's an extremely limited player on both ends who puts up nice counting stats, which is why he's extremely overpaid. Part of the reason why I'm scared of drafting Wiseman is that he could be in a similar spot after his rookie deal (although I do think he's better).

[Bullflip]

I actually wish we hadn’t got the 4th pick, because it forces us to get one of the guys that are the supposed top 5 talent. If I was the Bulls, I would trade down and draft Nesmith. I have a feeling he will be the best player from this draft. A sniper is what he is and who has a potential to be like Klay Thompson.