Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks)

[Red8911]

He is, but this has more so to do with Coby being bad, than Lonzo being particularly good.

I don't see much upside in giving Lonzo a big pay-day. He's a pretty average starting guard.

I agree I think trading for Ball would be a mistake. Not crazy about his game, his character, or his family. So many here are convicted that he’s the answer, we ll just have to see who’s right IF this trade even happens.

Excessive, almost borderline racist to question somebody character and family as an outsider. Fact is that the Ball Daddy and Ball Momma are literally top 5 in term of parental support for bball players.

I hope the Bulls organization doesn’t share your mindset.

Racist because I don’t like Balls character or family? Are you serious ? You do realize a lot of people do not like them right? Have you seen his fathers interviews? Has nothing to do with his race. Besides his mother is white and father black, why the F are you bringing up race for? What a stupid post.

[sco]

I'm not wed to the idea of Ball, and every guy we're talking about has flaws. Ball seems to have improved his 3pt shooting and seems to be a plus defender (which has been left out of this discussion), on top of being a competent ball handler and good open court passer.

One thing I'd try if we got him is shifting to a 3 guard line-up and trying Coby in a non-playmaking role (assuming we can dump Lauri for some value) because we'd need scoring again.

[Chi town]

I don't see a Lavine, Lonzo and Lauri team making the finals anytime soon. Is it worth having 70 million in salaries for these 3 guys alone? You can surround them with nice players, but that probably gets us a 4 seed in the East..

What does Lavine become? Does he take another step into top 10 player category?

Does Lonzo keep improving?

Does Lauri mature and stay healthy and become that 20 and 8 player on high efficiency?

Does PaW become a franchise player? All star?

Do ring chasers want to join us to make a push?

Does a disgruntled star force a trade to us?

Does AK find us another Jokic style gem in the draft?

I like the idea of putting a team together of versatile modern players that can shoot and compete defensively. I also like paying players for their prime. Maybe AK thinks they can develop Lonzo.

[Chi town]

I'm not wed to the idea of Ball, and every guy we're talking about has flaws. Ball seems to have improved his 3pt shooting and seems to be a plus defender (which has been left out of this discussion), on top of being a competent ball handler and good open court passer.

One thing I'd try if we got him is shifting to a 3 guard line-up and trying Coby in a non-playmaking role (assuming we can dump Lauri for some value) because we'd need scoring again.

That’s exactly what I’d do with Coby too. Run him off screens and make him a shooter that attacks close outs instead of PnR handler.

[bearadonisdna]

He is, but this has more so to do with Coby being bad, than Lonzo being particularly good.

I don't see much upside in giving Lonzo a big pay-day. He's a pretty average starting guard.

I agree I think trading for Ball would be a mistake. Not crazy about his game, his character, or his family. So many here are convicted that he’s the answer, we ll just have to see who’s right IF this trade even happens.

Excessive, almost borderline racist to question somebody character and family as an outsider. Fact is that the Ball Daddy and Ball Momma are literally top 5 in term of parental support for bball players.

I hope the Bulls organization doesn’t share your mindset.

Relax man. Your agenda is too over the top.

[Tetlak]

I don't see a Lavine, Lonzo and Lauri team making the finals anytime soon. Is it worth having 70 million in salaries for these 3 guys alone? You can surround them with nice players, but that probably gets us a 4 seed in the East..

What does Lavine become? Does he take another step into top 10 player category?

Does Lonzo keep improving?

Does Lauri mature and stay healthy and become that 20 and 8 player on high efficiency?

Does PaW become a franchise player? All star?

Do ring chasers want to join us to make a push?

Does a disgruntled star force a trade to us?

Does AK find us another Jokic style gem in the draft?

I like the idea of putting a team together of versatile modern players that can shoot and compete defensively. I also like paying players for their prime. Maybe AK thinks they can develop Lonzo.

There is no justification for paying Lauri. 20 ppg on high efficiency doesn't matter, because all he does is catch and shoot. If you're paying somebody to be an offensive cornerstone they better be able to create for themselves at least on an average level. You can pay a catch and shoot guy big money if they are a defender as well, which we know Lauri is not.

As a former Lonzo hater, he has won me over. I dont expect him to ever be an Allstar but I know he is a good fit in today's NBA and on our team specifically.

[CobyWhite0]

People talk about Lavine leaving, but is there anything that would push him out the door faster than signing Lauri/Ball to big contracts, and the team still being mediocre without an inkling of hope for that to change?

He’s close with Lonzo

I don’t think Zach and Lauri compliment each other as great as they should though

I’d rather go forward with Zo Ball than Lauri

Outside of AKME and BD, nobody really knows what Zach thinks of playing with Lauri. I can't say I've ever heard any "rumors" that he hates or loves playing with Lauri, so I won't even guess.

But even though people have said otherwise, paying Lauri and Ball $20 million each doesn't leave us "without an inkling of hope for that to change". Not even close.

It doesn't stop us from having max cap space next summer (2022). Zach's cap hold is only $29.5 million, which helps. The only players outside of Zach/Lonzo/Lauri under contract that summer would be Mr. Patrick Williams, Coby, and our 2021 and 2022 1st-round picks. An idiot could unload those 4 rookie contracts for cap room, which after the roster charges would give us around $35 million in cap space (a little more than the max).

Obviously, you could trade any combination of the 4 rookies for another All-Star if you can get one to want to play here.

And believe it or not, you could always trade Lonzo or Lauri. Or Zach, if it's in a package for a top-5 or top-10 player.

Or, we could roll with Zach, Lauri, Lonzo, Patrick Williams, Coby, and our 2021 and 2022 1st-round picks, and $18 million in cap space before Zach re-signs. Gives us an All-Star and lots of young assets heading into the 2022-23 season.

Or any combination thereof.

It's actually not even debatable, Lonzo/Lauri at $20 million in no way stops us from bringing in another All-Star financially. It's just not true at all.

But even though it in no way stops us from adding another All-Star financially - and it still leaves us with four young assets on rookie deals - there's no way I'm looking to give Lauri and Lonzo $20 million right now. Well, possibly I'd do it for 3 years each with the 3rd year 100% non-guaranteed, but I don't see why either would sign that deal.

[CaPiTanAK]

I agree I think trading for Ball would be a mistake. Not crazy about his game, his character, or his family. So many here are convicted that he’s the answer, we ll just have to see who’s right IF this trade even happens.

Excessive, almost borderline racist to question somebody character and family as an outsider. Fact is that the Ball Daddy and Ball Momma are literally top 5 in term of parental support for bball players.

I hope the Bulls organization doesn’t share your mindset.

Racist because I don’t like Balls character or family? Are you serious ? You do realize a lot of people do not like them right? Have you seen his fathers interviews? Has nothing to do with his race. Besides his mother is white and father black, why the F are you bringing up race for? What a stupid post.

Again, you’re judging someone character and his family by the way he talks. That’s subliminal racism whether you know it or not. Two wrongs don’t make it a right. There are plenty of racists in this country and it doesn’t give you the right to be one in a public forum. Don’t be angry when someone calls you out for your nonsense. I’m perfectly fine with talking bball and Lonzo flaws.

[TheStig]

I think Lonzo is a good starter. He can shoot, defend, handle the ball, has some size and has excellent vision. I can see him being a good player on a contending team. He's a good player. His questions are health and contract. But he is most definitely a plus player.

Yeah I think you bring in assets if you can. Its not like a big ticket item is gonna want to use our capspace

We could have signed both Christian Wood and Jerami Grant on sub-max deals if we had capspace last offseason.

If a player does not outplay their contract, they really aren't much of an asset. I don't see how Lonzo Ball is going to outplay a $20 million deal.

Let's bring in players who can actually be assets.

Let's hold off on the Wood and Grant praise. Both of those guys are leading their teams to a great lotto pick.

Ball has all the skills and talent to be a non gaudy stat guy who wins. He plays D, shoots, can handle the ball and has excellent vision. He's a very complete 2 way player and there are no stars available in FA. I can see him being well worth his 20 mill. I think if you can get him for very minimal assets and you want to be a better team, it's a good move. You'd own his bird rights.

The Bulls need to pick a path. Are they going to get a guy like Ball, resign Lauri and consolidate assets for a C and try to be a playoff team? Or do they rebuild.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

I agree I think trading for Ball would be a mistake. Not crazy about his game, his character, or his family. So many here are convicted that he’s the answer, we ll just have to see who’s right IF this trade even happens.

Excessive, almost borderline racist to question somebody character and family as an outsider. Fact is that the Ball Daddy and Ball Momma are literally top 5 in term of parental support for bball players.

I hope the Bulls organization doesn’t share your mindset.

Relax man. Your agenda is too over the top.

He's clearly a troll. I've had him on ignore for quite some time.

[thedarkstark]

I would trade Sato and every 2nd round pick we have from now until the end of time.

I'm not even a big fan of Lonzo but he's clearly a pretty substantial upgrade over Sato and 2nd round picks are nearly worthless.

I also think it'd be a great move for Cobys development, if he is ever going to learn to play pg there are only a few guys in the league with more inherent natural playmaking ability/vision/creativity than Lonzo. If Coby can't learn a thing or two watching Zo then he's a lost cause.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

My whole point of Lonzo is to unlocked Lavine&Lauri pair in offense and put them on another level same hopefully with Pat and his cuts to the basket. Heck even Gaff as slasher on the rim would benefit. But idea was Nola is not gonna pay him and he is underwhelming so cost risk benefit is good oporttunity for Bulls. Not particulary interested in bidfing war or Ball Lauri exchange. If you dont want to pay Lauri trade him for late lottery, mid first and pay Lonzo in free agency than. It seems price is steeped now so Ricky Rubio is my second choice. W Carter,Hutchinson,Felicio and 2 round pick for Ricky Rubio and Layman or Vanderbilt.

[BahamaBull]

The amount of love "future hall of famer" Lonzo Ball is getting on this board is insane. He will be another average player playing alongside 11 other average/below average players...

Both Lauri and Lonzo want the best lucrative deal and I dont want to be the team overpaying them.

[HomoSapien]

Excessive, almost borderline racist to question somebody character and family as an outsider. Fact is that the Ball Daddy and Ball Momma are literally top 5 in term of parental support for bball players.

I hope the Bulls organization doesn’t share your mindset.

Racist because I don’t like Balls character or family? Are you serious ? You do realize a lot of people do not like them right? Have you seen his fathers interviews? Has nothing to do with his race. Besides his mother is white and father black, why the F are you bringing up race for? What a stupid post.

Again, you’re judging someone character and his family by the way he talks. That’s subliminal racism whether you know it or not. Two wrongs don’t make it a right. There are plenty of racists in this country and it doesn’t give you the right to be one in a public forum. Don’t be angry when someone calls you out for your nonsense. I’m perfectly fine with talking bball and Lonzo flaws.

As a proud card-carrying member of the ACLU, I'm particularly sensitive to dog whistles and subvert racism. This, however, doesn't pass the smell test. Plenty of people have bristled to LaVar Ball's approach because he's overexposed, abrasive, and obnoxious. This is well documented, and in my opinion, not wanting to be in business with the Ball family for those reasons has nothing to do with race. So, in the future if you have a problem with a post report it otherwise attacks like this not only derail threads but are offensive.

[ZOMG]

Once again - Lonzo's been playing with two guys who get ALL the defensive attention. In a way his situation is not unlike that of Patrick Williams playing with Zach, Lauri and Thad. If you can make weak side spot up 3's and cut now and then, you're gonna look pretty good.

Like any dude who's been overdribbling the ball since he was 5 years old, Lonzo probably wants a different role in his next team. The Bulls would be fools to give it to him.

[R3AL1TY]

Wouldn't mind Lonzo, but his great play for the past few months will require more now in a trade and if you trade current guys that can spread the floor, it can negatively affect Lonzo.

[jnrjr79]

People talk about Lavine leaving, but is there anything that would push him out the door faster than signing Lauri/Ball to big contracts, and the team still being mediocre without an inkling of hope for that to change?

Yes, presumably not trading for Ball, letting Lauri walk for nothing, and just drafting some dude would be less effective.

That's debatable.

I don't get the sense that Lavine likes/appreciates Lauri.

And having max cap room next to Lavine could entice him to "team up" with somebody here (although I'm really not sure he has that type of clout).

My guess is Zach sticks around if the Bulls max him regardless, but if we're indulging the argument that Zach needs to see the Bulls committed to competing to keep him, letting a dude walk who scores 18 PPG on good efficiency and spaces the floor for Zach may not be helpful. I wouldn't predict the Bulls to be trying hard to free up max cap space anymore, given how the market of guys deserving of that kind of money has really dwindled. Assuming Kawhi is not in play, who are you going to give big money to? Collins or an old guy like Conley? There's not much slated to be available.

[Red8911]

Excessive, almost borderline racist to question somebody character and family as an outsider. Fact is that the Ball Daddy and Ball Momma are literally top 5 in term of parental support for bball players.

I hope the Bulls organization doesn’t share your mindset.

Racist because I don’t like Balls character or family? Are you serious ? You do realize a lot of people do not like them right? Have you seen his fathers interviews? Has nothing to do with his race. Besides his mother is white and father black, why the F are you bringing up race for? What a stupid post.

Again, you’re judging someone character and his family by the way he talks. That’s subliminal racism whether you know it or not. Two wrongs don’t make it a right. There are plenty of racists in this country and it doesn’t give you the right to be one in a public forum. Don’t be angry when someone calls you out for your nonsense. I’m perfectly fine with talking bball and Lonzo flaws.

Who said anything about the way he talks ? You’re an idiot.

[Red8911]

Excessive, almost borderline racist to question somebody character and family as an outsider. Fact is that the Ball Daddy and Ball Momma are literally top 5 in term of parental support for bball players.

I hope the Bulls organization doesn’t share your mindset.

Relax man. Your agenda is too over the top.

He's clearly a troll. I've had him on ignore for quite some time.

That’s good to know, might have to do the same.

[DuckIII]

People talk about Lavine leaving, but is there anything that would push him out the door faster than signing Lauri/Ball to big contracts, and the team still being mediocre without an inkling of hope for that to change?

There are two different camps on this, though.

Camp A: Wants to bring in Lonzo and have Lauri - believes Lonzo will help Lauri.

Camp B: Wants to bring in Lonzo, then trade Lauri.

While I agree that it's probably a bad idea to pay both those guys (Camp A), I think Lonzo seems like he may actually be a good complementary piece with Zach (Camp B).

Camp B.

Same.