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OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins

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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#761 » by Jcool0 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:48 pm

fleet wrote:It would need to be a ridiculous amount of racism to drop an astounding talent all the way to 11. The amount of successful black quarterbacks has vanquished that iidea. Especially in the last few years . Come on. It is way more likely to be real football reasons. To voice the angst along those lines….If he is as good as we want him to be, he should have been the number 2 pick if not number 1, and no player in this draft should have been taken in front of him. Given how valuable a great QB is, Fields slipping to 11 is cause for concern. You have to pray a lot of mistakes were made. And it’s happened before, obviously. Yet recency bias of Mahomes and Watson looming should have prompted somebody above 11 to roll the dice on this kind of talent, it would be difficult for a team to explain why they did not roll the dice. This situation screams that scouts didn’t like this kid much for whatever reasons to backup his highlight reel. Again, it is concerning.


Josh Allen with a career 56% completion percentage (56.3 as a junior) was in talks to go #1 overall and ended up 7th.

Lamar Jackson with a career 57% completion percentage (59.1 as a junior) had Bill Polian saying he should be a WR and went #32
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#762 » by Brothaman33 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:56 pm

dougthonus wrote:
CaPiTanAK wrote:And I'm glad that the Bears kept Pace on board for this QB selection. He has learned from his mistakes of selecting Trubisky over two superior black QB prospects. If we had a new GM, we might have selected Mac Jones instead lol. That would be the equivalent of selecting Marshmallow Shea McCellin over Chandler Jones.

Carry on...


His mistake wasn't drafting a white QB over a black QB, and trading up for a black QB doesn't resolve that mistake.

His mistake was taking a bad QB ahead of two great QBs. If Fields is a great QB then he will have traded up for a great QB and done a better job in the draft. If Fields is a bust, then he won't have done anything helpful. The skin color is irrelevant, the results are relevant, and anyone who drafts based on skin color instead of talent at any position will make worse decisions.


This is spot on.

If Trubisky had turned into a great QB, no one would even think to label Pace or the organization racist. But since he failed terribly and the 2 QB's selected behind him (albeit one is some pretty bad legal trouble) are black then the "Pace is kinda racist" card fits neatly into the discussion, even though I cringe when folks throw that around like people should have known.

It's sad and ugly in my opinion.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#763 » by fleet » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:35 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
fleet wrote:It would need to be a ridiculous amount of racism to drop an astounding talent all the way to 11. The amount of successful black quarterbacks has vanquished that iidea. Especially in the last few years . Come on. It is way more likely to be real football reasons. To voice the angst along those lines….If he is as good as we want him to be, he should have been the number 2 pick if not number 1, and no player in this draft should have been taken in front of him. Given how valuable a great QB is, Fields slipping to 11 is cause for concern. You have to pray a lot of mistakes were made. And it’s happened before, obviously. Yet recency bias of Mahomes and Watson looming should have prompted somebody above 11 to roll the dice on this kind of talent, it would be difficult for a team to explain why they did not roll the dice. This situation screams that scouts didn’t like this kid much for whatever reasons to backup his highlight reel. Again, it is concerning.


Josh Allen with a career 56% completion percentage (56.3 as a junior) was in talks to go #1 overall and ended up 7th.

Lamar Jackson with a career 57% completion percentage (59.1 as a junior) had Bill Polian saying he should be a WR and went #32

Josh Allen (who?) from Wyoming. And yeah, Jackson had questions about his QB credentials. Fields was created in a lab out of a perfect mold. neither of these guys was as impressive in college. Fields had about as awesome of performances on big stages at a major school as a QB could dream of. And every measureable in the world. The most accurate PFF has ever ranked against the toughest D they have considered for any QB they have looked at.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#764 » by dice » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:10 am

Susan wrote:
dice wrote:
Susan wrote:
Fields is very obviously smart if not brilliant (top 2% intelligence if not higher) and his intelligence/work ethic were called into question by Orlovsky. He's been praised by the coaching staff through the media for his intelligence and work ethic.

Mitch was average or slightly above average intelligence for an everyday person, but by QB standards well below average intelligence and it wasn't talked about until his 3rd year here.

IMO - other players pick up on this intelligence/confidence early on and is something that can't be faked. Some dudes just have it.

1) dan orlovsky is not evidence of systemic racism in the nfl
2) plenty of highly selected QBs aren't that bright. both black and white
3) the average wonderlic score for the "everyday person" is 25. the average for QBs is 24. trubisky got a 25. pat mahomes got a 24 and deshaun watson got a 20


Enough people believed it to let somebody of his talent level slip to 11.

did you stop to think that that wasn't why he slipped. for god's sake, i provided video of chris simms's very cogent explanation as to why he might have slipped. and it has nothing to do with the color of his skin

trey lance is obviously less intelligent than fields AND obviously had less collegiate success than fields. and yet he was taken #3. he appears to be black

so...if you can answer the question why fields slipped and lance didn't, you will have your answer. and it will have nothing to do with race

i personally don't see a GOOD reason why fields slipped as far as he did. other than teams selecting 4-10 not having a glaring need for a QB and nobody else being willing to trade up. then again, given the obvious importance of the position, i feel that QBs probably should have been taken in the first 5 slots

Look back a page, "Oh I just thought he was a one read QB" is code for "I thought he was a dumb black guy".

no it's not. that's you projecting in order to manufacture for yourself something to feel good about railing against

What's Mahomes or Watson's worderlic have to do with anything in this thread? Fields didn't take the test.

you JUST said that quarterbacks are smarter than the average person. in your last post! i am clearly showing you that not only are they not, but that general intelligence is far from essential to the position

and fields didn't have to take the test. everybody knows he's a smart cookie. off the field, anyway. which is largely irrelevant
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#765 » by dice » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:19 am

Brothaman33 wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
CaPiTanAK wrote:And I'm glad that the Bears kept Pace on board for this QB selection. He has learned from his mistakes of selecting Trubisky over two superior black QB prospects. If we had a new GM, we might have selected Mac Jones instead lol. That would be the equivalent of selecting Marshmallow Shea McCellin over Chandler Jones.

Carry on...


His mistake wasn't drafting a white QB over a black QB, and trading up for a black QB doesn't resolve that mistake.

His mistake was taking a bad QB ahead of two great QBs. If Fields is a great QB then he will have traded up for a great QB and done a better job in the draft. If Fields is a bust, then he won't have done anything helpful. The skin color is irrelevant, the results are relevant, and anyone who drafts based on skin color instead of talent at any position will make worse decisions.


This is spot on.

If Trubisky had turned into a great QB, no one would even think to label Pace or the organization racist.

same story, different results daniel jones vs haskins

i've said it before and i'll say it again: i would wager that if a deep analysis of the draft positions of black vs. white QBs was done, there would be some degree of evidence that black QBs are undervalued. but it's simply not an obvious problem

if someone brings up lamar jackson but fails to bring up aaron rodgers, drew brees and tom brady (or, for that matter, the countless black QBs who were highly drafted, had great college resumes and failed in the nfl), they have an agenda

by the way, lamar jackson in college wasn't accurate in the mid-range. he was the product of a simple offense at louisville. he is below average size. whoever drafted him would likely have to mold their offense to suit him rather than the other way around (and we know how much O-coordinators love their systems). he was merely solid at his pro day (again inconsistent w/ regard to accuracy), declining to run the 40. so there were very obvious reasons other than race why he wasn't a top QB prospect. and all of those concerns showed as a rookie - he was mediocre
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#766 » by dougthonus » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:27 am

dice wrote:same story, different results daniel jones vs haskins

i've said it before and i'll say it again: i would wager that if a deep analysis of the draft positions of black vs. white QBs was done, there would be some degree of evidence that black QBs are undervalued. but it's simply not an obvious problem

if someone brings up lamar jackson but fails to bring up aaron rodgers, drew brees and tom brady (or, for that matter, the countless black QBs who were highly drafted, had great college resumes and failed in the nfl), they have an agenda


It'd be interesting to see what the math / draft history says if you limit it to the most recent 10 years. I wouldn't be surprised if either black or white QBs came out under/overrated vs each other since the sample size is probably not big enough but I'd guess it ends up fairly close.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#767 » by dice » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:32 am

dougthonus wrote:
dice wrote:same story, different results daniel jones vs haskins

i've said it before and i'll say it again: i would wager that if a deep analysis of the draft positions of black vs. white QBs was done, there would be some degree of evidence that black QBs are undervalued. but it's simply not an obvious problem

if someone brings up lamar jackson but fails to bring up aaron rodgers, drew brees and tom brady (or, for that matter, the countless black QBs who were highly drafted, had great college resumes and failed in the nfl), they have an agenda


It'd be interesting to see what the math / draft history says if you limit it to the most recent 10 years. I wouldn't be surprised if either black or white QBs came out under/overrated vs each other since the sample size is probably not big enough but I'd guess it ends up fairly close.

i think that even if you go back 20 years it would be reasonably close

anybody remember ESPN's ridiculous decision to hire rush limbaugh for sunday night football nearly 20 years ago? he had to resign after saying this:

"Sorry to say this, I don't think he's been that good from the get-go," Limbaugh
said. "I think what we've had here is a little social concern in
the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback
do well. There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a
lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't
deserve. The defense carried this team."

that was in 2003. i recall at the time thinking "people still see race at the QB position?" because even then i hadn't heard it brought up in what seemed like ages. it's pretty obvious to me that he was playing to the racist element of his fanbase
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#768 » by dice » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:11 am

Susan wrote:
Chewie wrote:
Susan wrote:
Enough people believed it to let somebody of his talent level slip to 11.

Look back a page, "Oh I just thought he was a one read QB" is code for "I thought he was a dumb black guy".

What's Mahomes or Watson's worderlic have to do with anything in this thread? Fields didn't take the test.


Whoa Whoa Whoa!!! Hold up.....that was MY comment and totally based on very limited actual clips I was watching that had him staring down receivers and actually making a single read! No code there and had ZERO ZERO ZERO to do with race.

Don't feel like doing the digging but I think it may have been Stephen A. Smith that was doing the out loud thinking about why Fields was the consensus #2 QB after the season and then this strange slip happened afterward in his ranking and making the connection to race? Could be wrong.


Find me those clips. I want to see it.

I wonder what everybody here thought of Bill Polian speaking out against Lamar Jackson and saying he should move to WR rather than play QB. No hints of racism there?

bill polian took a flier on a black QB in the 1995 draft. from tennessee. peyton manning's BACKUP

we really need to be more careful about throwing around specious accusations of racism
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#769 » by Jcool0 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:14 am

dice wrote:
Susan wrote:
Chewie wrote:
Whoa Whoa Whoa!!! Hold up.....that was MY comment and totally based on very limited actual clips I was watching that had him staring down receivers and actually making a single read! No code there and had ZERO ZERO ZERO to do with race.

Don't feel like doing the digging but I think it may have been Stephen A. Smith that was doing the out loud thinking about why Fields was the consensus #2 QB after the season and then this strange slip happened afterward in his ranking and making the connection to race? Could be wrong.


Find me those clips. I want to see it.

I wonder what everybody here thought of Bill Polian speaking out against Lamar Jackson and saying he should move to WR rather than play QB. No hints of racism there?

bill polian took a flier on a black QB in the 1995 draft

we really need to be more careful about throwing around accusations of racism


Please do better then "'I'm not racist... I have a black friend".
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#770 » by dice » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:18 am

Jcool0 wrote:
dice wrote:
Susan wrote:
Find me those clips. I want to see it.

I wonder what everybody here thought of Bill Polian speaking out against Lamar Jackson and saying he should move to WR rather than play QB. No hints of racism there?

bill polian took a flier on a black QB in the 1995 draft

we really need to be more careful about throwing around accusations of racism


Please do better then "'I'm not racist... I have a black friend".

that's not what i just did. please think harder

i directly refuted an argument that a former nfl excutive harbors racist thoughts about black QBs. it was not his friend. it was not a casual acquaintance. he used his professional capital on a kid who BARELY PLAYED in college. there was ZERO reason for polian to draft him other than he thought he had untapped potential

please tell me you're not attempting to further your ridiculous line of thinking with the conspiracy theory that bill polian wasted a draft pick in an effort to disguise his racist tendencies
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#771 » by Jcool0 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:20 am

dice wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
dice wrote:bill polian took a flier on a black QB in the 1995 draft

we really need to be more careful about throwing around accusations of racism


Please do better then "'I'm not racist... I have a black friend".

that's not what i just did. please think harder

i directly refuted an argument that a former nfl excutive harbors racist thoughts about black QBs

the kid BARELY PLAYED in college. there was ZERO reason for polian to draft him other than he thought he had untapped potential

please tell me you're not attempting to further your ridiculous line of thinking with the conspiracy theory that bill polian wasted a draft pick in an effort to disguise his racist tendencies


That is exactly what you did. You said he took a black QB in the 1995 draft...
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#772 » by Susan » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:22 am

Hey I did something in 1995 and that means any dumb **** I say in the rest of my life cannot possibly be problematic.

This is absurdly dumb.

I'm glad Justin Fields is here.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#773 » by dice » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:23 am

Jcool0 wrote:
dice wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
Please do better then "'I'm not racist... I have a black friend".

that's not what i just did. please think harder

i directly refuted an argument that a former nfl excutive harbors racist thoughts about black QBs

the kid BARELY PLAYED in college. there was ZERO reason for polian to draft him other than he thought he had untapped potential

please tell me you're not attempting to further your ridiculous line of thinking with the conspiracy theory that bill polian wasted a draft pick in an effort to disguise his racist tendencies


That is exactly what you did. You said he took a black QB in the 1995 draft

still not thinking. what exactly is your special definition of the word 'exactly'

i did not use the word friend. you're making **** up. appalling

suggesting that a black quarterback probably does not have what it takes to make it as an nfl quarterback is NOT evidence of racism. on the other hand, drafting a black quarterback that did not play in college is pretty damn compelling evidence that a GM is NOT a racist

... FWIW I see no evidence he did that, since in the 1995 draft they didnt take a QB.

try harder

and by the way, he also hired tony dungy. how does your conspiracy theory explain that one? "black friend" again?
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#774 » by Jcool0 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:26 am

dice wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
dice wrote:that's not what i just did. please think harder

i directly refuted an argument that a former nfl excutive harbors racist thoughts about black QBs

the kid BARELY PLAYED in college. there was ZERO reason for polian to draft him other than he thought he had untapped potential

please tell me you're not attempting to further your ridiculous line of thinking with the conspiracy theory that bill polian wasted a draft pick in an effort to disguise his racist tendencies


That is exactly what you did. You said he took a black QB in the 1995 draft

still not thinking. what exactly is your special definition of the word 'exactly'

i did not use the word friend. you're making **** up. appalling

... FWIW I see no evidence he did that, since in the 1995 draft they didnt take a QB.

try harder


I removed it since i thought he was with the Colts then not Carolina.

Seriously? You are going to try to defend yourself by trying to literally take what i said even though it was in quotes meaning it was what the phrase represented. Which i know you know. So be better than that.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#775 » by dice » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:31 am

Jcool0 wrote:
dice wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
That is exactly what you did. You said he took a black QB in the 1995 draft

still not thinking. what exactly is your special definition of the word 'exactly'

i did not use the word friend. you're making **** up. appalling

... FWIW I see no evidence he did that, since in the 1995 draft they didnt take a QB.

try harder


I removed it since i thought he was with the Colts then not Carolina.

better keep removing

Seriously? You are going to try to defend yourself by trying to literally take what i said even though it was in quotes meaning it was what the phrase represented. Which i know you know. So be better than that.

i did not say exactly what you said i exactly said. in fact, it wasn't remotely close to what you said i said. so stop it

tony dungy
jerry colquist

neither a friend (at least not initially). neither a token hire. one of them a quarterback, one to a hugely important position: to guide his talent. but he and dungy DID apparently become close friends (another smokescreen?):

https://www.allprodad.com/bill-polian-and-the-colts/
https://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/tony-dungy-bill-polian-hall-of-fame/

so please don't tell me that bill polian is a secret or even subconscious racist based merely on the fact that he, like EVERY OTHER NFL TALENT EVALUATOR, missed on lamar freaking jackson. and yes, they ALL missed. because nobody with half a brain would risk him falling that far if they had an inkling that he would become anything close to what he has become. even teams with franchise QBs would at least have traded up to the mid-first to take him as a developmental prospect

with all the legitimate race issues facing this nation and beyond...
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#776 » by Jcool0 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:51 am

dice wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
dice wrote:still not thinking. what exactly is your special definition of the word 'exactly'

i did not use the word friend. you're making **** up. appalling


try harder


I removed it since i thought he was with the Colts then not Carolina.

better keep removing

Seriously? You are going to try to defend yourself by trying to literally take what i said even though it was in quotes meaning it was what the phrase represented. Which i know you know. So be better than that.

i did not say exactly what you said i exactly said. in fact, it wasn't remotely close to what you said i said. so stop it

tony dungy
jerry colquist

neither a friend (at least not initially). neither a token hire. one of them a quarterback, one to a hugely important position: to guide his talent. but he and dungy DID apparently become close friends (another smokescreen?):

https://www.allprodad.com/bill-polian-and-the-colts/
https://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/tony-dungy-bill-polian-hall-of-fame/

so please don't tell me that bill polian is a secret or even subconscious racist based merely on the fact that he, like EVERY OTHER NFL TALENT EVALUATOR, missed on lamar freaking jackson. and yes, they ALL missed. because nobody with half a brain would risk him falling that far if they had an inkling that he would become anything close to what he has become. even teams with franchise QBs would at least have traded up to the mid-first to take him as a developmental prospect


Okay you win. Racism is dead. Everyone is living in harmony. Bill Polian was just kidding when he said Jackson should be a WR. NFL has no blind spots when it comes to black QBs. They are on an equal level with white QBs.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#777 » by dice » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:57 am

Jcool0 wrote:Okay you win. Racism is dead. Everyone is living in harmony. Bill Polian was just kidding when he said Jackson should be a WR...

wait, now you're suggesting that that bill polian's comments on lamar jackson are ACTUAL evidence of racism and not just unsubstantiated suspicion?

incredible. you keep digging yourself a deeper hole. sure seems like you've sunk into desperation mode

...NFL has no blind spots when it comes to black QBs. They are on an equal level with white QBs.

i never said that. in fact, i have said in posts TODAY that there very well may be some degree of discrimination. but polian's comments on jackson simply aren't evidence of that. he merely said publicly what every GM was fearful of with regard to jackson. and i've already listed the myriad legitimate factors that made him a gamble to take highly in the draft. he was simply not one of those guys who comes into the league ready to roll

please stop misrepresenting what i say. it's disingenuous and frankly pretty s**tty
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#778 » by nomorezorro » Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:54 am

dice wrote:that was in 2003. i recall at the time thinking "people still see race at the QB position?" because even then i hadn't heard it brought up in what seemed like ages.


i mean, one of the big stories of the nfl over the next 15+ years from this point was coaches very gradually realizing that offenses could be tailored to skills traditionally associated with black quarterbacks who had previously been dismissed as legitimate top-tier players/prospects at the position.

you could argue semantics — it's not like there's a pure racial breakdown of white guy = pocket passer; black guy = scrambling qb. designing an offense around a traditional pocket passer isn't an overtly racist act, you can have legitimate concerns about the viability of a mobile quarterback over a long time horizon, good nfl teams have been quick to adopt more flexible schemes once it was clear that the league had undervalued certain skills at the position. even if you were willing to admit that race played a role in determining who got to play qb in the nfl, you could argue that role was largely confined to lower levels, where you'd be more likely to find a bad decision maker whose backward thinking would steer him away from starting a black kid at qb (or from empowering that kid to play the position in the same way he would a white kid).

but, functionally, the end result is the same: for most of the history of the nfl, there was a power structure in place that failed to capitalize on the talent pool at the quarterback position, and that failure led to an underrepresentation of black quarterbacks relative to modern levels. that's a racialized bias.

i think it's inarguable there has been a shift in the racial dynamic at the position, and that presumably can be tied to a shift in the way players are developed and prospects have been evaluated. a dozen teams didn't have a black starting qb prior to the 21st century. no black qb was picked no. 1 before michael vick; there have been 4 in the past 15 years. there were 10 black starting qbs on opening day 2020, the most in league history.

given all that, i think it's very reasonable to believe that racial biases in player evaluation weren't completely eradicated over the course of 20 years or whatever. it's not like all the guys who had jobs in 2000 are out of the league now, or didn't influence the makeup of front office personnel that followed them. it's obviously inarguable that there are far fewer race-based obstacles for black quarterbacks, but among the many factors that shape the very human decision-making process of nfl teams, it's naive to insist that race couldn't possibly still play a role.
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#779 » by nomorezorro » Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:55 am

in conclusion, i hope justin fields kicks ass
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Re: OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins 

Post#780 » by fleet » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:15 am

nomorezorro wrote:
dice wrote:that was in 2003. i recall at the time thinking "people still see race at the QB position?" because even then i hadn't heard it brought up in what seemed like ages.


i mean, one of the big stories of the nfl over the next 15+ years from this point was coaches very gradually realizing that offenses could be tailored to skills traditionally associated with black quarterbacks who had previously been dismissed as legitimate top-tier players/prospects at the position.

you could argue semantics — it's not like there's a pure racial breakdown of white guy = pocket passer; black guy = scrambling qb. designing an offense around a traditional pocket passer isn't an overtly racist act, you can have legitimate concerns about the viability of a mobile quarterback over a long time horizon, good nfl teams have been quick to adopt more flexible schemes once it was clear that the league had undervalued certain skills at the position. even if you were willing to admit that race played a role in determining who got to play qb in the nfl, you could argue that role was largely confined to lower levels, where you'd be more likely to find a bad decision maker whose backward thinking would steer him away from starting a black kid at qb (or from empowering that kid to play the position in the same way he would a white kid).

but, functionally, the end result is the same: for most of the history of the nfl, there was a power structure in place that failed to capitalize on the talent pool at the quarterback position, and that failure led to an underrepresentation of black quarterbacks relative to modern levels. that's a racialized bias.

i think it's inarguable there has been a shift in the racial dynamic at the position, and that presumably can be tied to a shift in the way players are developed and prospects have been evaluated. a dozen teams didn't have a black starting qb prior to the 21st century. no black qb was picked no. 1 before michael vick; there have been 4 in the past 15 years. there were 10 black starting qbs on opening day 2020, the most in league history.

given all that, i think it's very reasonable to believe that racial biases in player evaluation weren't completely eradicated over the course of 20 years or whatever. it's not like all the guys who had jobs in 2000 are out of the league now, or didn't influence the makeup of front office personnel that followed them. it's obviously inarguable that there are far fewer race-based obstacles for black quarterbacks, but among the many factors that shape the very human decision-making process of nfl teams, it's naive to insist that race couldn't possibly still play a role.

Fair enough. But the aformentioned Trey Lance being taken 3rd sort of smashes concerns of modern prototype Fields dropping all the way to 11 for race reasons. Some fans are so hopeful over this guy they seemingly can't look at the possible football aspect and are reaching for something else nefarious. The modern NFL prototype might actually be a black quarterback.
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