Woj: HOU still wants Asik for Lee, CHI determined to add SG

JockItch43 · Post #81 » by **JockItch43** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:57 pm

What's wrong with cat food?!?!?

Post #82 » by **alucryts** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:57 pm

ill put it this way: theres a very good chance you can DRAFT a lee nearly every year in the draft by simply packaging our 2 first rounders for a higher first rounder...or maybe giving up next years 1st for someone's this years first. lee is not that special.....nor is any sg that is available right now. our FO would be 10000% right to only offer 1sts, 2nds, and bogans for these sgs.....you either get lucky now or just go draft a lee this off season.

out of these, youll prolly have 2-3 lee level players:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jim ... ette-5810/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nolan-Smith-1118/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Boj ... ovic-1104/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Klay-Thompson-5490/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Scotty-Hopson-1323/

my point is, do not trade talent for what you very likely can get for free this off season or next. dont trade your future for a 1 year shot at a title and end up needing asik to compete with big front courts next year. trading taj or asik is gunna KILL our depth up front for next year.

the only sg available that id give up asik or taj for is afflalo. he is not someone that is easy to get...his ts% is 63.3%
look at his shooting splits:
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?nam ... %20Afflalo
he has improved in every area every year. this is taj or asik material.....lee is NOT. neither is mayo or parker or jr smith

Post #83 » by **Payt10** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:01 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:
Payt10 wrote:So wait a minute... If I'm reading this correctly, it says we are offering a first round pick.. Don't tell me we are refusing to give up the one we just picked up as well? If the Bulls think they can just get Lee with one first round pick they're dreaming. Give them multiple firsts because we won't need them for the next 2 years and if they really really won't do the deal without Asik, just give him to them. I want a SG so bad right now. I have to trust in the FO seeing as how they have pulled off some great deals in the past at the trade deadline. I'm confident we will get something done.
.

Right. We should just offer up everything we have to trade all at once. Had an old professor who used to tell us, "If you're not negotiating against yourself, you're doing it wrong."

What good are two first round picks going to do for us anyways? And to be clearer, I don't mean including 1st round picks with Asik involved. It's one or the other for me.

Post #84 » by **alucryts** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:01 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:The problem is that too many of us here have the starving man syndrome and are too willing to give up necessary equipment for a bite of a bad sandwich. Let me explain...

So pretend you are a homeless vagrant who hasn't eaten in three days, we'll call you Duck. So anyways, you haven't and you are starving and desperate for some food. The last thing you ate was some cat food (Keith Bogans) it was terrible, but it kept you from starving to death.

Now you straggle into a 7-11, but before the store owner can shoo you out with a broom you see one of those pre-packaged 7-11 ham sandwiches (Courtney Lee) in the refrigerated case on clearance. Now for most people they wouldn't touch a clearance sale sandwich at 7-11 if you held their children for ransom. But all you've eaten is cat food and you really want an upgrade on that but you don't have any money.

What you do have is a blanket (Omer Asik) to trade. Its foreign made, not quite as sturdy as you'd like, and its got some holes - but it was their for you when your first blanket was lost, and its kept you alive during the cold weather nights. But you don't remember all of that - all you can think about is that god damn cat food you ate, and how good that sandwich would taste comparatively.

I beg of you homeless vagrant - don't nosh down a week old sandwich, just so that you can freeze to death later tonight. Eat the cat food and live to fight another day.

that is a great analogy.

also
"So pretend you are a homeless vagrant who hasn't eaten in three days, we'll call you Duck."
is comedic gold :rofl:

thunderspirit · Post #85 » by **thunderspirit** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:02 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:The problem is that too many of us here have the starving man syndrome and are too willing to give up necessary equipment for a bite of a bad sandwich. Let me explain...

So pretend you are a homeless vagrant who hasn't eaten in three days, we'll call you Duck. So anyways, you haven't eaten and you are starving and desperate for some food. The last thing you ate was some cat food (Keith Bogans) it was terrible, but it kept you from starving to death.

Now you straggle into a 7-11, but before the store owner can shoo you out with a broom you see one of those pre-packaged 7-11 ham sandwiches (Courtney Lee) in the refrigerated case on clearance. Now for most people they wouldn't touch a clearance sale sandwich at 7-11 if you held their children for ransom. But all you've eaten is cat food and you really want an upgrade on that but you don't have any money.

What you do have is a blanket (Omer Asik) to trade. Its foreign made, not quite as sturdy as you'd like, and its got some holes - but it was their for you when your first blanket was lost, and its kept you alive during the cold weather nights. But you don't remember all of that - all you can think about is that god damn cat food you ate, and how good that sandwich would taste comparatively.

I beg of you homeless vagrant - don't nosh down a week old sandwich, just so that you can freeze to death later tonight. Eat the cat food and live to fight another day.

This. Is. Brilliant. :clap:

However, I'd like to point out that Duck is not a homeless vagrant.
He lives in a van down by the RIVER.

Red Larrivee · Post #86 » by **Red Larrivee** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:03 pm

Why is Houston crazy to ask for Asik in a package for Lee?

nitetrain8603 · Post #87 » by **nitetrain8603** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:06 pm

Honestly, I think the Bulls front office is like the fans at this point. They don't care who they end up getting, they just know they're getting someone. There's too many options out there.

TheAdmiral · Post #88 » by **TheAdmiral** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:06 pm

Houston's not crazy for asking Asik to be included in the deal. I just hope Chicago's not crazy enough to include him.

Red Larrivee · Post #89 » by **Red Larrivee** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:09 pm

I don't think Chicago would be. If it's just Lee for Asik straight up, that's fair value.

Cliff Levingston · Post #90 » by **Cliff Levingston** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:10 pm

A deal that appears to work in the Trace Checker is:

Chicago trades:
- Miami or Chicago 2011 1st round pick (Houston's preference)
Chicago receives:
- Courtney Lee

Houston trades:
- Courtney Lee
- Chuck Hayes
Houston receives:
- Hasheem Thabeet
- Miami or Chicago 2011 1st round pick (Houston's preference)

Memphis trades:
- Hasheem Thabeet
Memphis receives:
- Chuck Hayes

Memphis could buy out Hayes, allowing him to re-sign with Houston, or not. Who knows if Houston would be willing to give up Hayes in this deal, but they'd get a 1st and the size they're looking for. Cliff Levingston would toss in the extra 1st rounder (ours or Miami's) if it's needed.

Magilla_Gorilla · Post #91 » by **Magilla_Gorilla** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:12 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:I don't think Chicago would be. If it's just Lee for Asik straight up, that's fair value.

You know what else if fair value for Courtney Lee? A first round pick.

Sure its fair value - but the Bulls would be crazy to trade away a rotation player when they don't have to. As KC wrote in his article today - the Bulls are dealing from a position of strength. None of these SG's are so much better than the other that the Bulls can't just move on if they don't like whats being asked for.

Cliff Levingston · Post #92 » by **Cliff Levingston** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:12 pm

^ Eh, scratch that. Cliff Levingston doubts the Rockets would be willing to give up Hayes in that deal.

Post #93 » by **alucryts** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:13 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:Why is Houston crazy to ask for Asik in a package for Lee?

they arent crazy to ask, we are crazy to agree. you can draft lee every single year late in the first

Red Larrivee · Post #94 » by **Red Larrivee** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:15 pm

Sure, but you could say the same for the Rockets.

Lee for a first is fair value and Lee for Asik is as well. Asik for a first is fair value and Asik for Lee is as well. Both of these guys are rotational players, around the same age and producing well in their respective positions, which happens to be a strength for their teams.

I'm still neutral on it. If we don't make it, that's fine. If we do make it, that's fine. I just don't see Houston as being annoying here, when they're asking for a pretty fair and logical trade based on need and value.

alucryts wrote:they arent crazy to ask, we are crazy to agree. you can draft lee every single year late in the first

Not really.

tensai · Post #95 » by **tensai** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:15 pm

they can have the bulls 1st round picks, but not the bobcats pick. Lee is not an allstar, he's not worth that much.

btw, nice avatars and sig you guys have. Frozen frog, pretty cool.

my poor signature. :lol:

KingoftheCastle · Post #96 » by **KingoftheCastle** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:16 pm

I honestly don't think a Lee deal is going to get done. Yeah, I think a first rounder is fair value for Lee, but they want Asik, and Chicago has tipped their hand how much they covet Lee, so I can't blame them for wanting Omer. Think about this, they have Lee still under contract cheap for another season, so it isn't like they are motivated to just get rid of him, to convenience the Bulls.

BuffaloBull · Post #97 » by **BuffaloBull** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:16 pm

Interesting quotes from an article by Richard Justice (great name, btw) of the Houston Chronicle:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/spo ... 41527.html

"We've got to get something done, or it's not good," Morey said. "If I'm a fan, I'm waiting for us to get someone."

Meanwhile, the Nuggets have told the Rockets that center Nene isn't available, and unless they're bluffing, there goes another interesting option.

What's left? Morey has two other trades in play: one for a potentially high draft pick (my emphasis), the other for an impact player. He said he'd feel better if he had five or six possibilities instead of two.

Reading tea leaves, I would say that a "potentially high draft pick" is the exact way one would describe the Charlotte pick. I'm hopeful that if Houston can't get anything better, they will give us Courtney for picks. They acquired Terrence Williams, and the guy isn't playing, he's just rotting on the bench and getting upset. They can afford to move Lee, get back the picks, and see what Williams can do.

Post #98 » by **Ben** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:17 pm

Agree, Magilla's post was hilarious.

I feel confident that we didn't just trade JJ for a 1st in order to hoard the pick. Two 1st rounders (Miami's and our 2011) and significant luxury tax savings should be ample for a bench player who's buried behind their best starter. I agree about not giving up Asik, for the same reasons that many people have already stated. I'd rather get Parker for a cheap rental than overpay for Lee. Then we can sign a decent SG in the offseason.

bad knees · Post #99 » by **bad knees** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:18 pm

Guys,

We have entered the last 30 hours of a very serious poker game. The Bulls know who they want; none of us really, really know what Gar and Pax are thinking. The only thing we know is that Pax went on the radio last week and essentially said he is not trading Taj or Omer, and that history tells us that, when Pax says something like that, he means it and is not blowing smoke. It also appears that they are serious about upgrading the SG position, and I think we all agree this is good and necessary. That being said, we just have to trust the FO at this point.

We have been talking at length about what we would give for Afflalo, Lee and Mayo. Remember that there also is the possibility of a three-way deal. By my calculations, there are approximately 13,672 such deals that will bring us a SG upgrade. And I am confident that by tomorrow at 2 pm CST, Gar will have explored every single one of them.

So try to relax, take a Xanax or something. This is going down to the wire. And I have every confidence that our FO will come through. They deserve such faith based on their track record at the deadline in past years.

Just keep in mind: we are 38-16 with Kurt and Keith as our starters. Just think how good we can be when those two are replaced by Noah and Afflalo/Lee/Mayo or even Parker. It's a great time to be a Bulls fan.

Post #100 » by **alucryts** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:18 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:I don't think Chicago would be. If it's just Lee for Asik straight up, that's fair value.

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Courtney%20Lee

asiks potential is >>>>> those shooting %'s and volume.

for shooter we need, the 53.3% ts% he has is poor on the volume he shoots. we need more than 1.9 3pa a game from the sg....asik for lee has a good chance of making the team worse. the instant it happens.