Boozer and the PNR, video -- Double High Screen vid pg. 11

[deadstock_bM]

I'd love to have Frye. He's a solid man defender with good 3point shooting (.439 and .390 last 2 years). From what I've seen he's not a good help defender which is what Noah is great at. Putting Boozer/Frye in together would be a dream on offense while our interior defense would suffer. But Frye isn't a lazy guy like Boozer was last year; he seems lost on rotations sometimes.

[boogydown]

First thanks to alucryts for putting this together. Great stuff.

I would do it like this

1st Half - If Boozer is hitting the mid range shot, I would keep him outside, Noah remains inside
2nd Half - If Boozer isn't hitting the mid range shot, Noah goes outside, Boozer stays inside

It's as simple as that. Mix and match however which way you'd like but adjustments need to be made and both of them staying inside is never going to work.

[bullsnewdynasty]

But I do not like Frye's contract that much...

It isn't too appealing but if you think about it, that's about how much Asik is going to cost this upcoming summer, or even more.

[WinCity]

If Boozer can hit that pick and pop consistently, he is going to murder teams with it. That is what is going to happen this year if Boozer and Noah turn into a good fit. The help defender will have to travel much farther away from the basket leaving Noah wide open for offensive boards if Boozer is spotting up for a pick and pop.

The movement in the Warriors game imo was good. All movements served some purpose, they just weren't crisp enough for the Warriors gambling defense.

Here is my question: was this the plan all along? Generally speaking the further you are from the basket the lower the % of scoring. I find it hard to believe we invested so much into Booz to make him primarily a jump shooter. Did GarPax not consider the impact of Noah's game limited Boo's opportunities at the basket?

[boogydown]

Another option is to trade Omer Asik and start games with Taj Gibson or trade both Omer Asik and Taj Gibson together for a PF/C upgrade where Boozer comes off the bench.

Edit: Boozer could get 30 minutes a game still, it's just we would start games off with proper rotations.

[GetBuLLish]

First of all, BIG thanks to Alucryts. Another great compilation of data.

Second, a small thanks to Resiren for those still pictures of Boozer in Utah. You'd get a bigger thanks if you weren't following up that performance from Alucryts.

Thirdly, as Kyrv, Boogy, and others have mentioned, this thread brought us good and bad news. Good news b/c it helps confirm what many have suspected and points out a specific reason for our struggles. The awful news is that it seems like we have little ability to correct that problem. There is no center on this team that Boozer can play with that would give him more space. Something I advocated last year was to play Boozer w/ Kurt Thomas and Noah w/ Gibson, w/ Asik filling up the rest of the minutes. But obviously, we can't do that.

It seems to me that barring a trade, the only way we can get this to work is to make it a point to have Boozer and Rose pass it to Noah and have him take the open jumper (which he gets every single damn play). This would mean that Noah would actually, you know, have to look at the hoop when he gets the ball and then shoot the ball toward the cylinder. And hopefully he would consistently make them enough to not only continue gain confidence in his shot but also make his man respect his shot.

I hope there's another way of solving this b/c right now I'm about as confident in Noah's shot as he is.

[alucryts]

Just to kind of get a baseline from people, and we haven't talked about this much in this thread, but it's hit up often other places, what is the numbers difference between Deron/Rose as the PG of the PnR?

I.e. if Rose is in Utah in 2010, what is Carlos Boozer's stats. What they were with Deron is 19.5 PPG, .599 TS%.

That's one of Booze's higher efficiency marks. I tend to think Rose gets a little too much scapegoating from the Boozer fans here, and while Rose is obviously no Deron, the difference would not be *that* great. See Boozer's production his first month here when Noah was out last year as evidence.

I think in Utah, Booze still puts up 19 PPG, and maybe .580 TS% or something like that with Rose.

Ceiling here with the Bulls being a bit less than that, because of 2 years older, and non-PG personnel. Maybe 18.5 PPG and .570 TS% - if he's healthy, and we get this mess cleaned up. Right now were far from there.

One thing you have to consider is that we will never be able to run the same pick and roll as Utah did because of Rose. When Boozer comes up for a screen or is anywhere near Dwill's defender in Utah, the defense is set up to attack either Dwill or Boozer because they are equal threats. Because of this, Dwill is able to set up 2 on 1 and 1 on 1 opportunities for Boozer where the defense cannot rotate fast enough. With Rose, he is so much more of a threat than Boozer that defenses super blitz and wall him off as soon as humanly possible. Due to this, Rose is able to create 1 on 0 attempts for Boozer. Unfortunately, that 0 turns back into 1 with Noah's defender camping the lane and ignoring Noah. If we had a stretch 5, our offense would be nearly unstoppable because You either have to let Rose go 1 on 1 from a screen, give Boozer free points, or give the stretch 5 a shot so open he was covered better earlier in shoot around. I think here we would see defenses having to respect Boozer more and it would lead to something more like Utah. With Noah though, we won't see that; we will get wide open pick and pops.

[pduh01]

The movement in the Warriors game imo was good. All movements served some purpose, they just weren't crisp enough for the Warriors gambling defense.

Not to discredit the Warriors which they play very well against us, playing tough defense. But there are times they gamble so much that we have the opportunity to punish them but we didn't do a good job to punish them when they gamble so much on defense. Especially Kwame Brown who gambles alot with that game.

I think the Bulls need to do a better job with the screens/picks on the opposing teams which give them difficult time gambling, or make them pay.

I will say when we play the Heat we can not play the same way against the Warriors, so far this season the Heat are doing a hell of a job playing good team defense, gamble(not as much.), and push the ball up temple.

[jl342323]

kyle korver also got alot of open looks from booz/dwill pnrs.

i dont know why he didnt have that many 3pt opportunities last year out of pnr

[alucryts]

If Boozer can hit that pick and pop consistently, he is going to murder teams with it. That is what is going to happen this year if Boozer and Noah turn into a good fit. The help defender will have to travel much farther away from the basket leaving Noah wide open for offensive boards if Boozer is spotting up for a pick and pop.

The movement in the Warriors game imo was good. All movements served some purpose, they just weren't crisp enough for the Warriors gambling defense.

Here is my question: was this the plan all along? Generally speaking the further you are from the basket the lower the % of scoring. I find it hard to believe we invested so much into Booz to make him primarily a jump shooter. Did GarPax not consider the impact of Noah's game limited Boo's opportunities at the basket?

I don't think they envisioned it working out like this. If Boozer focuses on getting them, he will get free throw depth jumpers at will this year.

[Rerisen]

Yeah Okur was a big part of the system. Though he also missed a lot of time in Utah over the years, and I'd wager their PnR was still much more effective than ours.

We had no money for it, but kind of deflating to see Okur to go NJ for just a 2nd rounder. Might have been a weapon off the bench. Eh, not sure how much he has left though.

[pduh01]

Here is my question: was this the plan all along? Generally speaking the further you are from the basket the lower the % of scoring. I find it hard to believe we invested so much into Booz to make him primarily a jump shooter. Did GarPax not consider the impact of Noah's game limited Boo's opportunities at the basket?

We do not have to make him a consistent jump shooter it is more of giving teams a different look, or a different dimension.

Throw different options have Boozer post up move Noah out of the way when Boozer post up, move Noah out of the way when Boozer do the pick & roll, or move Noah down to the basket, and have Boozer do the pick & pop. We got options there we need to that if want to make the Noah/Boozer work. Throw those different options make it unpredictable to those opposing teams.

[m_willis01]

Does anyone think the Tornado looks better than last year..?

I mean Noah Swooshed on First Attempt in L.A... He just needs to stay OT in the gym and practice it all day

[pduh01]

Does anyone think the Tornado looks better than last year..?

I mean Noah Swooshed on First Attempt in L.A... He just needs to stay OT in the gym and practice it all day

I thought last season before his injury his tornado looks pretty damn good, he even knocking them down in a good rate.

[Rerisen]

He just needs to stay OT in the gym and practice it all day

Apparently he's money in practice. The issue must be mental, he just can't do it in games.

[alucryts]

First of all, BIG thanks to Alucryts. Another great compilation of data.

Second, a small thanks to Resiren for those still pictures of Boozer in Utah. You'd get a bigger thanks if you weren't following up that performance from Alucryts.

Thirdly, as Kyrv, Boogy, and others have mentioned, this thread brought us good and bad news. Good news b/c it helps confirm what many have suspected and points out a specific reason for our struggles. The awful news is that it seems like we have little ability to correct that problem. There is no center on this team that Boozer can play with that would give him more space. Something I advocated last year was to play Boozer w/ Kurt Thomas and Noah w/ Gibson, w/ Asik filling up the rest of the minutes. But obviously, we can't do that.

It seems to me that barring a trade, the only way we can get this to work is to make it a point to have Boozer and Rose pass it to Noah and have him take the open jumper (which he gets every single damn play). This would mean that Noah would actually, you know, have to look at the hoop when he gets the ball and then shoot the ball toward the cylinder. And hopefully he would consistently make them enough to not only continue gain confidence in his shot but also make his man respect his shot.

I hope there's another way of solving this b/c right now I'm about as confident in Noah's shot as he is.

I agree with your assessment. There are 4 solutions:

1) Exactly what you said. Noah needs to hit that mid range shot and kill teams with it.
2) Boozer needs to become a pick and pop master. He has done this some games and we rock on offense when he does it.
3) We introduce more misdirection with Noah and Rip on the opposite side of a Rose/Boozer PNR. We need to distract Noah's defender long enough to give Boozer an extra step.
4) Find ways to initiate the pick and roll at free throw line depths instead of 3 point line depths. This will not give Boozer the extra step afforded in misdirection as much as it will give Noah's defender one less step to rotate.

Any of these would solve the Noah and Boozer chemistry.

[boogydown]

I actually think it would work better if we dealt Omer in that potential trade.

Boozer/Taj
Noah/Frye

Or start Frye and make Noah the 6th man.

We're not going to trade Asik for Frye. You can't win anything with no defense down low.

I guess we now know why the Bulls drafted Mirotic. He is exactly what we need.

[alucryts]

I actually think it would work better if we dealt Omer in that potential trade.

Boozer/Taj
Noah/Frye

Or start Frye and make Noah the 6th man.

We're not going to trade Asik for Frye. You can't win anything with no defense down low.

I guess we now know why the Bulls drafted Mirotic. He is exactly what we need.

Yup, the best solution for our offense is going to be a pick and pop power forward (Mirotic). When the power forward pops instead of rolls, the man defending Noah has to rotate out to stop the 1 on 0. This leaves a midget to rotate to the post and stop noah's offensive rebounding. You will now have an elite pick and pop shooter who draws the prime rebounding defender out of the lane to defend an elite pick and pop shooter. You get both a great open shot and a prime tip in opportunity.

In summary, a pick and pop player will:

1) Give a wide open shot to an elite shooter.
2) Give a wide open lane to an elite offensive rebounder

or

3) Force teams to stop blitzing Rose with double teams off of pick and rolls giving him prime opportunities to attack the paint.

A pick and pop player at the power forward optimizes our current offense.

[infinity]

First of all this has been one of the more intelligent threads I have seen in a while. I would like to point out if you compare the Bulls Carlos Boozer clips with the Jazz highlight reel and Boozer-Jazz screen captures you will notice that Boozer consistently receives the ball much closer to the hoop with the Jazz than he does now with the Bulls. Given that he is now 2 years older and perhaps lost a step, this gives Noah/Asik's defender more time to reach Boozer and contest the shot.

[alucryts]

First of all this has been one of the more intelligent threads I have seen in a while. I would like to point out if you compare the Bulls Carlos Boozer clips with the Jazz highlight reel and Boozer-Jazz screen captures you will notice that Boozer consistently receives the ball much closer to the hoop with the Jazz than he does now with the Bulls. Given that he is now 2 years older and perhaps lost a step, this gives Noah/Asik's defender more time to reach Boozer and contest the shot.

Exactly. Utah's PNR was more of "SURPRISE!!!!!!!!!!" compared to our "HERE I COME".

Anyway, I am off to bed now. I will be doing more of this this year now that I have Synergy. If you guys have any ideas for topics to do with video, don't hesitate to send me a PM as a suggestion. As a note, I don't know defense very well at all compared to offense. It is much easier for me to break down offense.