Who's willing to trade up?

[TheJordanRule]

This is perfectly fair. I haven't watched enough of him yet to have a strong opinion. All I'm saying is that if your evaluation of a player indicates hes going to be great, you should trade up even if a) 2nd picks havent done well or b) you're a diversify your risks/chances with more draft picks kind of guy.

The evaluation of the player dictates the move, IMO.

The Cameron Payne comparison is ridiculous and clearly the opposite of fair. Cam was drafted in the mid 1st round. Ja's a consensus Top 3, arguably Top 2 pick. Cam had borderline athletic ability. Ja has elite. Cam had below average distribution skills. Ja has elite. And on and on. Ja may or may not be a superstar, but his floor is average NBA starting PG. The foolishness of comparing Ja to Cam cannot be overstated.

The issue is that Cam looked like he could actually be an NBA player when he played there due to the competition. Obviously, he wasn't even close to that. How much better does Ja look due to the same factors?

There is absolutely no way that Ja's floor is being the 15th best point guard on the planet.

By average starting PG, I mean a player who would compare to a Trae Young or Ricky Rubio type... someone with clear flaws, but also dynamic, clear strengths. To be clear, that places him within the #18th best / #19th best PG on the planet. Look at Ja's vast range of dynamic skills and tell me why I'm wrong. Assuming he's free from injuries, and that his combine confirms his elite athleticism, this kid realistically can't be any worse than that.
1. Steph Curry
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Kyrie Irving
4. Damian Lillard
5. CP3
6. John Wall (assuming he recovers and can make it through full seasons injury free)
7. Kemba Walker
8. Kyle Lowry
9. Luka Doncic
10. Jrue Holiday
11. Mike Conley
12. Goran Dragic
13. De'Aaron Fox
14. Jamal Murray
15. Jeff Teague
16. Eric Bledsoe
17. D'Angelo Russell
18. Trae Young
19. Ricky Rubio
20. Derrick White
21. Darren Collison
22. Reggie Jackson
23. ???Spencer Dinwiddie???
24. ???Dennis Smith Jr.???
25. ???Fred VanVleet???
26. ???Derrick Rose???
27. ???Monte Morris???
28. ???Collin Sexton???
29. ???Elfrid Payton???
30. ???Jordan Clarkson???

[coldfish]

The Cameron Payne comparison is ridiculous and clearly the opposite of fair. Cam was drafted in the mid 1st round. Ja's a consensus Top 3, arguably Top 2 pick. Cam had borderline athletic ability. Ja has elite. Cam had below average distribution skills. Ja has elite. And on and on. Ja may or may not be a superstar, but his floor is average NBA starting PG. The foolishness of comparing Ja to Cam cannot be overstated.

The issue is that Cam looked like he could actually be an NBA player when he played there due to the competition. Obviously, he wasn't even close to that. How much better does Ja look due to the same factors?

There is absolutely no way that Ja's floor is being the 15th best point guard on the planet.

By average starting PG, I mean a player who would compare to a Trae Young or Ricky Rubio type... someone with clear flaws, but also dynamic, clear strengths. To be clear, that places him within the #18th best / #19th best PG on the planet. Look at Ja's vast range of dynamic skills and tell me why I'm wrong. Assuming he's free from injuries, and that his combine confirms his elite athleticism, this kid realistically can't be any worse than that.
1. Steph Curry
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Kyrie Irving
4. Damian Lillard
5. CP3
6. John Wall (assuming he recovers and can make it through full seasons injury free)
7. Kemba Walker
8. Kyle Lowry
9. Luka Doncic
10. Jrue Holiday
11. Mike Conley
12. Goran Dragic
13. De'Aaron Fox
14. Jamal Murray
15. Jeff Teague
16. Eric Bledsoe
17. D'Angelo Russell
18. Trae Young
19. Ricky Rubio
20. Derrick White
21. Darren Collison
22. Reggie Jackson
23. ???Spencer Dinwiddie???
24. ???Dennis Smith Jr.???
25. ???Fred VanVleet???
26. ???Derrick Rose???
27. ???Monte Morris???
28. ???Collin Sexton???
29. ???Elfrid Payton???
30. ???Jordan Clarkson???

I think that people underestimate just how good even bad NBA players are at basketball. There are videos out there of Brian Scalabrine destroying random athletic people for fun.

What makes an NBA player good is him being able to use those skills effectively at NBA speeds against NBA defenders. With Murray St., Ja is doing his thing against people several levels below NBA players. If you put me out there against the right people, I would show a huge skill set. Crossovers, 3's, good court vision, step backs, rebounding, blocks, post moves, etc. Total package. The only problem is that those "right people" are 5th grade girls. There is a huge difference between Southern Illinois University - Edwardsville and the Milwaukee Bucks.

I would happily take Ja and hope for the best but I'm not going to try to convince myself that he is some generational talent. Every year, the draft picks get hyped and then half of them fall on their faces against real NBA players.

[Mech Engineer]

We will see if there are many "trading down" trades. If GMs are reluctant to give up multiple picks to move up, that tells us they value an early pick the same as a teens pick. But, there is always a crazy/impulsive decision like the McDermott pick that can happen for a hyped up kid.

[Red Larrivee]

The issue is that Cam looked like he could actually be an NBA player when he played there due to the competition. Obviously, he wasn't even close to that. How much better does Ja look due to the same factors?

There is absolutely no way that Ja's floor is being the 15th best point guard on the planet.

By average starting PG, I mean a player who would compare to a Trae Young or Ricky Rubio type... someone with clear flaws, but also dynamic, clear strengths. To be clear, that places him within the #18th best / #19th best PG on the planet. Look at Ja's vast range of dynamic skills and tell me why I'm wrong. Assuming he's free from injuries, and that his combine confirms his elite athleticism, this kid realistically can't be any worse than that.
1. Steph Curry
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Kyrie Irving
4. Damian Lillard
5. CP3
6. John Wall (assuming he recovers and can make it through full seasons injury free)
7. Kemba Walker
8. Kyle Lowry
9. Luka Doncic
10. Jrue Holiday
11. Mike Conley
12. Goran Dragic
13. De'Aaron Fox
14. Jamal Murray
15. Jeff Teague
16. Eric Bledsoe
17. D'Angelo Russell
18. Trae Young
19. Ricky Rubio
20. Derrick White
21. Darren Collison
22. Reggie Jackson
23. ???Spencer Dinwiddie???
24. ???Dennis Smith Jr.???
25. ???Fred VanVleet???
26. ???Derrick Rose???
27. ???Monte Morris???
28. ???Collin Sexton???
29. ???Elfrid Payton???
30. ???Jordan Clarkson???

I think that people underestimate just how good even bad NBA players are at basketball. There are videos out there of Brian Scalabrine destroying random athletic people for fun.

What makes an NBA player good is him being able to use those skills effectively at NBA speeds against NBA defenders. With Murray St., Ja is doing his thing against people several levels below NBA players. If you put me out there against the right people, I would show a huge skill set. Crossovers, 3's, good court vision, step backs, rebounding, blocks, post moves, etc. Total package. The only problem is that those "right people" are 5th grade girls. There is a huge difference between Southern Illinois University - Edwardsville and the Milwaukee Bucks.

I would happily take Ja and hope for the best but I'm not going to try to convince myself that he is some generational talent. Every year, the draft picks get hyped and then half of them fall on their faces against real NBA players.

To be fair, Morant took one of the more unlikely development curves for a potential #2 pick.

He was not a highly touted HS player and was only recruited by Murray State and South Carolina. He accepted the first offer he got. I'm sure there are players in that conference who were more heavily recruited, but how many of them did anything close to what Ja did because of competition level?

I don't think Morant is a product of weak competition. He legitimately made a lot of improvement. I agree that he's not a generational talent though.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[TheJordanRule]

The issue is that Cam looked like he could actually be an NBA player when he played there due to the competition. Obviously, he wasn't even close to that. How much better does Ja look due to the same factors?

There is absolutely no way that Ja's floor is being the 15th best point guard on the planet.

By average starting PG, I mean a player who would compare to a Trae Young or Ricky Rubio type... someone with clear flaws, but also dynamic, clear strengths. To be clear, that places him within the #18th best / #19th best PG on the planet. Look at Ja's vast range of dynamic skills and tell me why I'm wrong. Assuming he's free from injuries, and that his combine confirms his elite athleticism, this kid realistically can't be any worse than that.
1. Steph Curry
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Kyrie Irving
4. Damian Lillard
5. CP3
6. John Wall (assuming he recovers and can make it through full seasons injury free)
7. Kemba Walker
8. Kyle Lowry
9. Luka Doncic
10. Jrue Holiday
11. Mike Conley
12. Goran Dragic
13. De'Aaron Fox
14. Jamal Murray
15. Jeff Teague
16. Eric Bledsoe
17. D'Angelo Russell
18. Trae Young
19. Ricky Rubio
20. Derrick White
21. Darren Collison
22. Reggie Jackson
23. ???Spencer Dinwiddie???
24. ???Dennis Smith Jr.???
25. ???Fred VanVleet???
26. ???Derrick Rose???
27. ???Monte Morris???
28. ???Collin Sexton???
29. ???Elfrid Payton???
30. ???Jordan Clarkson???

I think that people underestimate just how good even bad NBA players are at basketball. There are videos out there of Brian Scalabrine destroying random athletic people for fun.

What makes an NBA player good is him being able to use those skills effectively at NBA speeds against NBA defenders. With Murray St., Ja is doing his thing against people several levels below NBA players. If you put me out there against the right people, I would show a huge skill set. Crossovers, 3's, good court vision, step backs, rebounding, blocks, post moves, etc. Total package. The only problem is that those "right people" are 5th grade girls. There is a huge difference between Southern Illinois University - Edwardsville and the Milwaukee Bucks.

I would happily take Ja and hope for the best but I'm not going to try to convince myself that he is some generational talent. Every year, the draft picks get hyped and then half of them fall on their faces against real NBA players.

When we chased PG prospects in the past, we took them with the hope that they would further expand their ability to distribute. Kris was supposed to develop more court vision and finishing ability. To a lesser extent, the same could be said about Cam and Grant when they were here. Ja has both in spades already. Let's illustrate something here...

Player X 24.5 points per game, 10.0 assists per game, 8.2 free throw attempts per game, 81.3 % from free throw, 5.7 rebounds per game, 1.8 steals per game, 1.7 threes per game on 36.3 % shooting, TOV 20.4 %, FTr .512, USG 33.3 %, PER of 31.6, TS % .612, WS 8.2

Player Y 27.4 points per game, 8.7 assists per game, 8.4 free throw attempts per game, 86.1 % from free throw, 3.9 rebounds per game, 1.7 steals per game, 3.7 threes per game on 36.0 % shooting, TOV 18.2 %, USG 37.1 %, FTr .443, PER of 28.3, TS % .585, WS 5.7

Player X is Ja, who absolutely owns Player Y on almost all of the advanced statistical metrics (FTr, USG, PER, TS, WS). Player Y is Trae Young. We've seen prospects in the past who failed because they either didn't grow according to projections, or who just didn't have the athleticism to keep up at the next level, but Ja has the athleticism already, and his skill sets are further along than Trae was last season. That's the definition of a high floor PG prospect. The fact that Ja has a high upside as well is just a luxurious bonus.

I agree that most high draft picks are hit or miss, but that's because they have further to go, and bigger weaknesses. Let's give Ja his due. At a bare minimum, he's earned more respect than Trae, and as for Cam... well, he doesn't even fit into this conversation.

[coldfish]

When we chased PG prospects in the past, we took them with the hope that they would further expand their ability to distribute. Kris was supposed to develop more court vision and finishing ability. To a lesser extent, the same could be said about Cam and Grant when they were here. Ja has both in spades already. Let's illustrate something here...

Player X 24.5 points per game, 10.0 assists per game, 8.2 free throw attempts per game, 81.3 % from free throw, 5.7 rebounds per game, 1.8 steals per game, 1.7 threes per game on 36.3 % shooting, TOV 20.4 %, FTr .512, USG 33.3 %, PER of 31.6, TS % .612, WS 8.2

Player Y 27.4 points per game, 8.7 assists per game, 8.4 free throw attempts per game, 86.1 % from free throw, 3.9 rebounds per game, 1.7 steals per game, 3.7 threes per game on 36.0 % shooting, TOV 18.2 %, USG 37.1 %, FTr .443, PER of 28.3, TS % .585, WS 5.7

Player X is Ja, who absolutely owns Player Y on almost all of the advanced statistical metrics (FTr, USG, PER, TS, WS). Player Y is Trae Young. We've seen prospects in the past who failed because they either didn't grow according to projections, or who just didn't have the athleticism to keep up at the next level, but Ja has the athleticism already, and his skill sets are further along than Trae was last season. That's the definition of a high floor PG prospect. The fact that Ja has a high upside as well is just a luxurious bonus.

I agree that most high draft picks are hit or miss, but that's because they have further to go, and bigger weaknesses. Let's give Ja his due. At a bare minimum, he's earned more respect than Trae, and as for Cam... well, he doesn't even fit into this conversation.

To be clear, I like Ja. He really impressed me several times. Most importantly with his basketball IQ, which is harder to teach than people give it credit for. He is #2 on my board and there is a big gap to #3. As you note, he is athletic as hell AND seems to be a hard worker. That's a really good combination.

I just think there is a good chance that the Bulls are in the lottery again next year and with the new odds, it could be a good pick. In order to trade up from, like 6, where Chicago is likely to be to #2, they are going to have to give up a near unprotected pick. I would rather have say Garland and a lottery pick next year than Ja, just to spread out my risk.

I would trade #6 and a pick next year for Zion though but it wouldn't be accepted so its not worth discussing.

[TheJordanRule]

When we chased PG prospects in the past, we took them with the hope that they would further expand their ability to distribute. Kris was supposed to develop more court vision and finishing ability. To a lesser extent, the same could be said about Cam and Grant when they were here. Ja has both in spades already. Let's illustrate something here...

Player X 24.5 points per game, 10.0 assists per game, 8.2 free throw attempts per game, 81.3 % from free throw, 5.7 rebounds per game, 1.8 steals per game, 1.7 threes per game on 36.3 % shooting, TOV 20.4 %, FTr .512, USG 33.3 %, PER of 31.6, TS % .612, WS 8.2

Player Y 27.4 points per game, 8.7 assists per game, 8.4 free throw attempts per game, 86.1 % from free throw, 3.9 rebounds per game, 1.7 steals per game, 3.7 threes per game on 36.0 % shooting, TOV 18.2 %, USG 37.1 %, FTr .443, PER of 28.3, TS % .585, WS 5.7

Player X is Ja, who absolutely owns Player Y on almost all of the advanced statistical metrics (FTr, USG, PER, TS, WS). Player Y is Trae Young. We've seen prospects in the past who failed because they either didn't grow according to projections, or who just didn't have the athleticism to keep up at the next level, but Ja has the athleticism already, and his skill sets are further along than Trae was last season. That's the definition of a high floor PG prospect. The fact that Ja has a high upside as well is just a luxurious bonus.

I agree that most high draft picks are hit or miss, but that's because they have further to go, and bigger weaknesses. Let's give Ja his due. At a bare minimum, he's earned more respect than Trae, and as for Cam... well, he doesn't even fit into this conversation.

To be clear, I like Ja. He really impressed me several times. Most importantly with his basketball IQ, which is harder to teach than people give it credit for. He is #2 on my board and there is a big gap to #3. As you note, he is athletic as hell AND seems to be a hard worker. That's a really good combination.

I just think there is a good chance that the Bulls are in the lottery again next year and with the new odds, it could be a good pick. In order to trade up from, like 6, where Chicago is likely to be to #2, they are going to have to give up a near unprotected pick. I would rather have say Garland and a lottery pick next year than Ja, just to spread out my risk.

I would trade #6 and a pick next year for Zion though but it wouldn't be accepted so its not worth discussing.

The items in bold are key issues to me too! Obtaining a generational talent is not going to happen. If the price was a #6 and a pick next year, every high lotto team would have a generational talent by now. So why not settle for a more realistic option? And yes, that option is Ja.

Reasons to Draft Ja
1. As you said, there's a steep drop off between Ja and the mysterious other guys.
2. If we add Ja and a decent free agent, barring serious injuries, we'd be good enough to miss the lottery all together or, at worst, end up within the late lottery range. Your risk management strategy would make more sense to me if we were in more nascent stages of rebuilding. I think we're further along because Zach and Lauri are showing longer and longer flashes, and because Otto has demonstrated that he can really play in our system, with the current players on our roster.
3. Ja is not just the BPA but fills a need on our roster.
4. The best free agents available at the PG position are not looking to link up with a high lotto team, while the mediocre ones bandied about (Terry Rozier, Malcolm Brogdon, Ricky Rubio, Spencer Dinwiddie) would be overpaid tens of millions per season just to come here.

I'd personally rather that we spend big money on bigs. For instance,

PG Ja / Dunn / Archi
SG Zach / Selden
SF Otto / Hutch / Val
PF Lauri / Sampson
C Jonas Valanciunas/ WCJ / Rolo

Is a better core in terms of talent and fit than

PG Brogdon / Garland / Dunn / Archi
SG Zach / Selden
SF Otto / Hutch / Val
PF Lauri / Sampson
C WCJ / Rolo

I love WCJ, but he's still a raw 19 year old. I love Rolo, but he's ancient.

[FriedRise]

Read on Twitter

According to strictly only college numbers (not NBA potential), Ja Morant = Kris Dunn or Cam Payne

[TheJordanRule]

Read on Twitter

According to strictly only college numbers (not NBA potential), Ja Morant = Kris Dunn or Cam Payne

Try again. He quite clearly says Westbrook, Wall and De'Aaron Fox are also solid comparisons which he will also do a statistical deep dive into. So out of his statistical comparisons, 3 out of 5 are stars or superstars. And who is this guy again? What's his relevance? He just said "if the Bulls draft Ja" and put up a gif of the running of the bulls in Spain with the hashtag #transitionopportunities. Some great credible source, no doubt!

[Ccwatercraft]

The Cameron Payne comparison is ridiculous and clearly the opposite of fair. Cam was drafted in the mid 1st round. Ja's a consensus Top 3, arguably Top 2 pick. Cam had borderline athletic ability. Ja has elite. Cam had below average distribution skills. Ja has elite. And on and on. Ja may or may not be a superstar, but his floor is average NBA starting PG. The foolishness of comparing Ja to Cam cannot be overstated.

The issue is that Cam looked like he could actually be an NBA player when he played there due to the competition. Obviously, he wasn't even close to that. How much better does Ja look due to the same factors?

There is absolutely no way that Ja's floor is being the 15th best point guard on the planet.

By average starting PG, I mean a player who would compare to a Trae Young or Ricky Rubio type... someone with clear flaws, but also dynamic, clear strengths. To be clear, that places him within the #18th best / #19th best PG on the planet. Look at Ja's vast range of dynamic skills and tell me why I'm wrong. Assuming he's free from injuries, and that his combine confirms his elite athleticism, this kid realistically can't be any worse than that.
1. Steph Curry
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Kyrie Irving
4. Damian Lillard
5. CP3
6. John Wall (assuming he recovers and can make it through full seasons injury free)
7. Kemba Walker
8. Kyle Lowry
9. Luka Doncic
10. Jrue Holiday
11. Mike Conley
12. Goran Dragic
13. De'Aaron Fox
14. Jamal Murray
15. Jeff Teague
16. Eric Bledsoe
17. D'Angelo Russell
18. Trae Young
19. Ricky Rubio
20. Derrick White
21. Darren Collison
22. Reggie Jackson
23. ???Spencer Dinwiddie???
24. ???Dennis Smith Jr.???
25. ???Fred VanVleet???
26. ???Derrick Rose???
27. ???Monte Morris???
28. ???Collin Sexton???
29. ???Elfrid Payton???
30. ???Jordan Clarkson???

Wheres brogdon fall on this list?

[Jeffster81]

Whoever gets the #1 will not trade down, and despite Marant being my favorite prospect in the draft, neither he or Reddish or Barrett are worth trading up for.

[TheJordanRule]

The issue is that Cam looked like he could actually be an NBA player when he played there due to the competition. Obviously, he wasn't even close to that. How much better does Ja look due to the same factors?

There is absolutely no way that Ja's floor is being the 15th best point guard on the planet.

By average starting PG, I mean a player who would compare to a Trae Young or Ricky Rubio type... someone with clear flaws, but also dynamic, clear strengths. To be clear, that places him within the #18th best / #19th best PG on the planet. Look at Ja's vast range of dynamic skills and tell me why I'm wrong. Assuming he's free from injuries, and that his combine confirms his elite athleticism, this kid realistically can't be any worse than that.
1. Steph Curry
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Kyrie Irving
4. Damian Lillard
5. CP3
6. John Wall (assuming he recovers and can make it through full seasons injury free)
7. Kemba Walker
8. Kyle Lowry
9. Luka Doncic
10. Jrue Holiday
11. Mike Conley
12. Goran Dragic
13. De'Aaron Fox
14. Jamal Murray
15. Jeff Teague
16. Eric Bledsoe
17. D'Angelo Russell
18. Trae Young
19. Ricky Rubio
20. Derrick White
21. Darren Collison
22. Reggie Jackson
23. ???Spencer Dinwiddie???
24. ???Dennis Smith Jr.???
25. ???Fred VanVleet???
26. ???Derrick Rose???
27. ???Monte Morris???
28. ???Collin Sexton???
29. ???Elfrid Payton???
30. ???Jordan Clarkson???

Wheres brogdon fall on this list?

Fair point. Is Bledsoe a PG or is Brogdon? They're both starters on the same team. Brogdon would probably be between Ricky Rubio and Derrick White.

[Ccwatercraft]

By average starting PG, I mean a player who would compare to a Trae Young or Ricky Rubio type... someone with clear flaws, but also dynamic, clear strengths. To be clear, that places him within the #18th best / #19th best PG on the planet. Look at Ja's vast range of dynamic skills and tell me why I'm wrong. Assuming he's free from injuries, and that his combine confirms his elite athleticism, this kid realistically can't be any worse than that.
1. Steph Curry
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Kyrie Irving
4. Damian Lillard
5. CP3
6. John Wall (assuming he recovers and can make it through full seasons injury free)
7. Kemba Walker
8. Kyle Lowry
9. Luka Doncic
10. Jrue Holiday
11. Mike Conley
12. Goran Dragic
13. De'Aaron Fox
14. Jamal Murray
15. Jeff Teague
16. Eric Bledsoe
17. D'Angelo Russell
18. Trae Young
19. Ricky Rubio
20. Derrick White
21. Darren Collison
22. Reggie Jackson
23. ???Spencer Dinwiddie???
24. ???Dennis Smith Jr.???
25. ???Fred VanVleet???
26. ???Derrick Rose???
27. ???Monte Morris???
28. ???Collin Sexton???
29. ???Elfrid Payton???
30. ???Jordan Clarkson???

Wheres brogdon fall on this list?

Fair point. Is Bledsoe a PG or is Brogdon? They're both starters on the same team. Brogdon would probably be between Ricky Rubio and Derrick White.

Makes me wonder if he is worth 20 million annual on a multiyear deal then. So if he is currently 14-19 is his ceiling higher than 10?

The one thing I like about him is his ability to play both g positions. But I really haven't seen him enough to know what the ceiling is.

As it relates to Chicago he's a good fit and that the vast majority of the players in front of him are not available. Still, Hard to place a value on the best of the rest, 19ish is the drop-off into no man's land.

related to this thread the question is where does Ja fall into this list. 20ish?

[Red Larrivee]

Read on Twitter

According to strictly only college numbers (not NBA potential), Ja Morant = Kris Dunn or Cam Payne

Try again. He quite clearly says Westbrook, Wall and De'Aaron Fox are also solid comparisons which he will also do a statistical deep dive into. So out of his statistical comparisons, 3 out of 5 are stars or superstars. And who is this guy again? What's his relevance? He just said "if the Bulls draft Ja" and put up a gif of the running of the bulls in Spain with the hashtag #transitionopportunities. Some great credible source, no doubt!

Ken Pom does a lot of advanced college statistics. It's a really good resource. His database is finding similar statistical cases. It's not doing anything more than that. The conclusions you take from it are your own.

I think some forget how excited a lot of people were about Dunn when he came out of college. He didn't develop how people imagined he would, but a statistical comparison isn't really saying that Morant will have the same fate.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[TheJordanRule]

Read on Twitter

According to strictly only college numbers (not NBA potential), Ja Morant = Kris Dunn or Cam Payne

Try again. He quite clearly says Westbrook, Wall and De'Aaron Fox are also solid comparisons which he will also do a statistical deep dive into. So out of his statistical comparisons, 3 out of 5 are stars or superstars. And who is this guy again? What's his relevance? He just said "if the Bulls draft Ja" and put up a gif of the running of the bulls in Spain with the hashtag #transitionopportunities. Some great credible source, no doubt!

Ken Pom does a lot of advanced college statistics. It's a really good resource. His database is finding similar statistical cases. It's not doing anything more than that. The conclusions you take from it are your own.

I think some forget how excited a lot of people were about Dunn when he came out of college. He didn't develop how people imagined he would, but a statistical comparison isn't really saying that Morant will have the same fate.

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Yes, I agree that simply making a statistical comparison between one player and another doesn’t mean they’ll have similar careers. Fair point, Red, but the more casual fans do assume that the statistical comparison means Ja will end up like the players being compared.

And I’d like an explanation of the wisdom behind the comparison being made in the first place because Ja murks Kris by basically every advanced statistical measure. Kris’ all time best PER in college was 24.5. Ja’s is 31.6. Kris’ all time best TS % in college was .546. Ja’s is .612. Kris’ all time best WS in college was 4.8. Ja’s is 8.2. Kris’ all time best FTr was .472. Ja’s is .512... and all of this basically ignores the fact that a) Kris had four seasons of college basketball versus only two seasons for Ja and b) the obvious eye test confirmation that Ja can pass and is a lot more cerebral than Kris.

[TheJordanRule]

Wheres brogdon fall on this list?

Fair point. Is Bledsoe a PG or is Brogdon? They're both starters on the same team. Brogdon would probably be between Ricky Rubio and Derrick White.

Makes me wonder if he is worth 20 million annual on a multiyear deal then. So if he is currently 14-19 is his ceiling higher than 10?

The one thing I like about him is his ability to play both g positions. But I really haven't seen him enough to know what the ceiling is.

As it relates to Chicago he's a good fit and that the vast majority of the players in front of him are not available. Still, Hard to place a value on the best of the rest, 19ish is the drop-off into no man's land.

related to this thread the question is where does Ja fall into this list. 20ish?

Brogdon doesn’t have much room to get better. He’s already 26 and his athleticism limits him to guarding SGs, although he’s strong enough to guard SFs too. That’s okay for us because Zach’s better at on ball defense than off ball defense, and Zach is fast enough to stay step for step with PGs. Brogdon is an efficient shooter and his shooting touch and secondary playmaking skills are his main claim to the tens of millions we’ll be shelling out each year for his services.

I agree with you that Brogdon would be a fairly good fit for us but I see that as a marginal boost to our roster in comparison to the alternative of trading in our chips for Ja, and adding a legit NBA center in free agency. I feel this way probably because I’m higher on Ja than you may be. Ja’s floor puts him at #18-#19 IMHO, but his upside could mean he starts as high as #13. Even if he’s only at #19, his cheap contract and the fact that he’s not one of the “off the cliff” types means he’ll be a fantastic value while allowing us to address another gaping hole in our starting line up during free agency. That’s worth a future first if you ask me.