KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime

[MikeDC]

There's very little actual support here for Boylen, but I'm surprised at some of the neutrality voiced by posters I respect.

Have you ever heard Boylen come across as bright or insightful? Do you have any evidence that he is respected by his players?

Compare those answers to how many times you have heard him sound like a complete goof and how often you've seen his players openly show that they think he's a goof.

I'm not really neutral on Boylen, as I would like him replaced, but I would say he strikes me as smarter and better than VDN to me. I think most of the stuff I hear him say is fine, not that this is high praise. Also, it's now quite a ways back, but LaVine offered to pay his fine at one point, which is a measure of respect.

The Bulls also think highly of him, they were to boot Cartright nearly immediately, VDN after 2 years, and Hoiberg after 3 and change, so I don't think they're so stuck on wanting to stay with a coach if they think he's not the right guy. I think they actually think Boylen is pretty good.

So it's not a ton of evidence in Boylen's favor, I'll go back to where I started, I would like him replaced, but I don't think the evidence against him is nearly so iron clad as the detractors seem to think it is.

Hah, Boylen is a notorious suck up, while del Negro was independent enough that Paxton assaulted him.

[transplant]

There's very little actual support here for Boylen, but I'm surprised at some of the neutrality voiced by posters I respect.

Have you ever heard Boylen come across as bright or insightful? Do you have any evidence that he is respected by his players?

Compare those answers to how many times you have heard him sound like a complete goof and how often you've seen his players openly show that they think he's a goof.

I'm not really neutral on Boylen, as I would like him replaced, but I would say he strikes me as smarter and better than VDN to me. I think most of the stuff I hear him say is fine, not that this is high praise. Also, it's now quite a ways back, but LaVine offered to pay his fine at one point, which is a measure of respect.

The Bulls also think highly of him, they were to boot Cartright nearly immediately, VDN after 2 years, and Hoiberg after 3 and change, so I don't think they're so stuck on wanting to stay with a coach if they think he's not the right guy. I think they actually think Boylen is pretty good.

So it's not a ton of evidence in Boylen's favor, I'll go back to where I started, I would like him replaced, but I don't think the evidence against him is nearly so iron clad as the detractors seem to think it is.

Well said, as usual. Among this board's most respected posters, you are probably the least negative on Boylen...and you want him replaced.

I don't give a damn what they do between now and the end of the 2020 season. I believe that Karnisovas and Eversley are empowered to make decisions that are in the best interests of the future of the Bulls. Retaining Boylen past the end of this season is unthinkable for me.

[Michael Jackson]

There's very little actual support here for Boylen, but I'm surprised at some of the neutrality voiced by posters I respect.

Have you ever heard Boylen come across as bright or insightful? Do you have any evidence that he is respected by his players?

Compare those answers to how many times you have heard him sound like a complete goof and how often you've seen his players openly show that they think he's a goof.

I'm not really neutral on Boylen, as I would like him replaced, but I would say he strikes me as smarter and better than VDN to me. I think most of the stuff I hear him say is fine, not that this is high praise. Also, it's now quite a ways back, but LaVine offered to pay his fine at one point, which is a measure of respect.

The Bulls also think highly of him, they were to boot Cartright nearly immediately, VDN after 2 years, and Hoiberg after 3 and change, so I don't think they're so stuck on wanting to stay with a coach if they think he's not the right guy. I think they actually think Boylen is pretty good.

So it's not a ton of evidence in Boylen's favor, I'll go back to where I started, I would like him replaced, but I don't think the evidence against him is nearly so iron clad as the detractors seem to think it is.

Well said, as usual. Among this board's most respected posters, you are probably the least negative on Boylen...and you want him replaced.

I don't give a damn what they do between now and the end of the 2020 season. I believe that Karnisovas and Eversley are empowered to make decisions that are in the best interests of the future of the Bulls. Retaining Boylen past the end of this season is unthinkable for me.

Agreed. I have no problem at all with them not firing him yet... there is no particular urgency in that today, but I can’t imagine they keep him coaching next season. That being said, I said the exact same thing last season saying there is no way they will retain him. Different scenario completely for sure and this would shock me more than last season. I also agree that he isn’t as bad as made out, and he is made out as a man who can barely tie his shoes... I do believe he can do that. I also know for a fact he isn’t NBA head coach material. It’s an elite job, 30 spots available, and he is not talented enough to have that particular job. His pressers alone disqualify him, it’s an elite job as I said and you need to have all aspects of your responsibilities to be at an above average level. You can only have glaring deficiencies if you are someone who is Belichick elite imho. Id Thibs was elite enough to forgive his quirks. Boylen is nowhere close enough in any aspect for him to be an NBA coach. I am pretty sure he is likely really good at the assistant coach job and responsibilities, that job has different criteria than a HC though.

[kulaz3000]

I see no way that the BUlls would keep him as the head coach to start next season, if they are truly serious building a contending team. Yes, players are the most important, but the head coach sets the tone and the style of play which the team plays, and Boylen has showed no consistenty in that regard.

Watching the Bulls play since he has been the head coach, they played without any sense of real indentity.

[dougthonus]

I see no way that the BUlls would keep him as the head coach to start next season, if they are truly serious building a contending team.

I think statements like his are a false dichotomy. Nothing the Bulls do next year is likely to play a pivotal role in building a contending team unless they are able to somehow acquire a superstar, which seems unlikely regardless of anything they do, and likely isn't going to hinge on Boylen one way or the other.

Yes, players are the most important, but the head coach sets the tone and the style of play which the team plays, and Boylen has showed no consistenty in that regard.

Well he's set a hard nosed, work hard, defensive oriented team. I think that culture shift was pretty important from when Hoiberg was here. Bad teams aren't really consistent, but the Bulls put pretty consistent effort into their defense and their offense generated at the basket attempts and wide open threes and was analytically sound. Their players weren't so good at running it, but this is where you have to determine how much is on the coach vs the players.

That said, I think all of this is irrelevant, because there's a good chance that there isn't a single player on the roster now that will be here when the Bulls are next a contending team. I don't think anything Boylen does, if he did somehow stay next year, would be relevant to the next time they contend.

[kulaz3000]

I see no way that the BUlls would keep him as the head coach to start next season, if they are truly serious building a contending team.

I think statements like his are a false dichotomy. Nothing the Bulls do next year is likely to play a pivotal role in building a contending team unless they are able to somehow acquire a superstar, which seems unlikely regardless of anything they do, and likely isn't going to hinge on Boylen one way or the other.

You're right, it's not directly about next year, but it's about starting the process. Whether it be making moves to acquire a superstar, or finding a head coach that can bring an indentity and a clear path or what type of players work best within the structure and style of play that the coach instills.

Yes, players are the most important, but the head coach sets the tone and the style of play which the team plays, and Boylen has showed no consistenty in that regard.

Well he's set a hard nosed, work hard, defensive oriented team. I think that culture shift was pretty important from when Hoiberg was here. Bad teams aren't really consistent, but the Bulls put pretty consistent effort into their defense and their offense generated at the basket attempts and wide open threes and was analytically sound. Their players weren't so good at running it, but this is where you have to determine how much is on the coach vs the players.

That said, I think all of this is irrelevant, because there's a good chance that there isn't a single player on the roster now that will be here when the Bulls are next a contending team. I don't think anything Boylen does, if he did somehow stay next year, would be relevant to the next time they contend.

There definitely games in which they played hard nosed defense but it was not nearly enough. I think it was mostly due to individual solid defensive players, than the team as a whole buying in. When key defensive players went down, so did the defense. A good team can overcome these individual losses, because the head coach has made sure the entire team has built in to what they want to achieve.

Again, I'm not saying that next year they will contend or even contemplate contending, but they need to make a start. Finding a superstar is one of the most difficult things when building a team, because everyone wants those coverted players, but acquiring a head coach I feel is a little easier, though challenging in it's own way.

[dougthonus]

You're right, it's not directly about next year, but it's about starting the process. Whether it be making moves to acquire a superstar, or finding a head coach that can bring an indentity and a clear path or what type of players work best within the structure and style of play that the coach instills.

There's a very good chance the head coach you bring in next isn't your championship coach either. You obviously need to start the process, and removing Boylen can be part of that process, a part I would like to see as well, but drawing the conclusion "they didn't fire Boylen, they don't want to win a championship" isn't the only other alternative here and is actually a pretty nonsensical one.

I also hope they move on from Boylen and will be disappointed if they won't, but I can understand reasons they wouldn't do this enough to not feel like "oh they don't want to win, nothing is going to change" and get all woe are the Bulls if it doesn't happen.

[sco]

It is arguable that Boylen's issues are mostly ascribable to him being a rookie HC and having a very injured roster for most of the season. I'm not saying he should be kept, but I think that the Bulls would be much better off not bringing in yet another rookie HC. It is a complicated game that, IMO, takes several seasons to fully master (not just the ingame stuff, but schemes, knowing what's needed in assts, earning player respect, etc.).

[MikeDC]

Not doing what you recognize needs to be done is a loser mentality that people should be against on principle. It's like "yeah, I'd like a drink, but I'm too lazy to do the work to go get a beer out of the fridge".

Beyond this, there's another deeper point that folks don't want to acknowledge. Everyone here, even the people who are shilling to keep Boylen around and "give him a fair chance" are being insincere.

Think about this for a minute, and (without some reflexive goober response) put yourself in the position of Reinsdorf. You're hiring AK, and you say, "Hey, I think Jim Boylen has gotten a really raw deal. I want you to keep him on. At least give him a fair chance. Get to know him. Blah blah..."

AK says (at best) ok, I'm skeptical, but I'll try him out over the remainder of the season, whatever form that takes.

Months go by, and Boylen does everything that could be reasonably expected, and then AK comes to you and says, "OK, I gave him a shot, but it's just not working out". Likely, no games have even been played.

My point is, regardless of my feelings about Reinsdorf, he's the owner and we need to understand things from his perspective. Since we all believe that AK's mind is already made up, and he's just going through the motions of giving Boylen a "fair chance" then it's likely Reinsdorf will too.

And I, as an owner/manager/leader do not want my new hires bullshitting me.

This is actually a pretty stupid position that AK has put himself into. If he had just been straightforward and convincing up front, pulled the band-aid off, and done so by patiently but firmly and repeatedly pointing out the vast mountain of bad results,
terrible ideas, and unacceptable behavior that Boylen has engaged in, he could have simply been done with this and spent the last several months moving forward instead of dealing with Boylen. Nothing done going forward is going to outweigh what's already happened.

Now, he not only hasn't dealt with Boylen, but he's opened up his sincerity and judgement to question.

Neither the offense nor the defense were "analytically sound" or good.

[Leslie Forman]

Watching the Bulls play since he has been the head coach, they played without any sense of real indentity.

Well this is just completely false. They actually have one of the strongest "identities" in the league. Their defense is easily the most unusual in the league with how focused they are in trying to get turnovers - they are far and away first in the league in TOV%. They're basically the Peanut Tillman of basketball teams. Offensively, they are one of the most Moreyball teams in the league, focusing heavily on threes and layups/dunks (they are easily first in the league in 0-3ft shots). Just look how much people bitched over the season about the lack of midrange 2s this team was taking (which is…just an awful take).

The criticism of Boylen's corny, meatheaded bush league-ness is all valid but when it comes to the actual basketball tactics on the floor, saying he doesn't do anything is just complaining for the sake of complaining. Now if you think the strategies are a load of crap, go right on ahead. But he's obviously instilled a very, very, particular, and extremely analytics-driven way of playing basketball with this team.

I don't think Boylen should be an NBA head coach, but I also maintain that a lot of the criticism against him is really just because most people are still lying to themselves about the real talent/skill levels of the young guys on this team. This roster is awful.

[dougthonus]

Not doing what you recognize needs to be done is a loser mentality that people should be against on principle. It's like "yeah, I'd like a drink, but I'm too lazy to do the work to go get a beer out of the fridge".

I know it's not worth arguing the truth of this statement with you because we've discussed it in the past, and I know you won't be convinced regardless, but there is absolutely reason for the new FO to feel like firing Boylen isn't something that "needs to be done" yet.

I know you completely disagree with anything that doesn't equate to Boylen being fired, but you are dealing with about 1-5% of the information the people making the decision are, and management isn't nearly so negative on him as you are. He absolutely has supporters in the FO at the moment that don't feel this way.

If you came into a new organization to do a makeover, and your boss said "give this guy a hard look, he's a lot better than you think" then you would do that, not just because your boss asked (though that's enough of a reason) but because you'd know that the people within the org probably have reason to feel this way that you couldn't have seen from the outside making it also a very reasonable thing to do.

Beyond this, there's another deeper point that folks don't want to acknowledge. Everyone here, even the people who are shilling to keep Boylen around and "give him a fair chance" are being insincere.

Literally no one is shilling to keep Boylen that I have seen. I think I might be the most pro-Boylen guy on the whole forum, and even my opinion is that I would fire him, think he's bottom 10, but I'm open to the idea that he might be better than people think due to circumstances.

Think about this for a minute, and (without some reflexive goober response) put yourself in the position of Reinsdorf. You're hiring AK, and you say, "Hey, I think Jim Boylen has gotten a really raw deal. I want you to keep him on. At least give him a fair chance. Get to know him. Blah blah..."

AK says (at best) ok, I'm skeptical, but I'll try him out over the remainder of the season, whatever form that takes.

Months go by, and Boylen does everything that could be reasonably expected, and then AK comes to you and says, "OK, I gave him a shot, but it's just not working out". Likely, no games have even been played.

My point is, regardless of my feelings about Reinsdorf, he's the owner and we need to understand things from his perspective. Since we all believe that AK's mind is already made up, and he's just going through the motions of giving Boylen a "fair chance" then it's likely Reinsdorf will too.

And I, as an owner/manager/leader do not want my new hires bullshitting me.

This is actually a pretty stupid position that AK has put himself into. If he had just been straightforward and convincing up front, pulled the band-aid off, and done so by patiently but firmly and repeatedly pointing out the vast mountain of bad results,
terrible ideas, and unacceptable behavior that Boylen has engaged in, he could have simply been done with this and spent the last several months moving forward instead of dealing with Boylen. Nothing done going forward is going to outweigh what's already happened.

Now, he not only hasn't dealt with Boylen, but he's opened up his sincerity and judgement to question.

Neither the offense nor the defense were "analytically sound" or good.

I think there's a lot more nuance here than you are admitting can possibly exist.

You appear to have started with the assumption that AK's mind is absolutely made up on Boylen. There's not a lot of reason to think that's true, especially given AK's own quotes on wanting to get to know the coaching staff and do a thorough evaluation. I don't think AK favors Boylen, but I don't know that it has to be binary of AK is 100% committed towards removing him. What was reported was actually that "he leans towards replacing him" if I recall correctly.

I wouldn't start with a binary assumption that is refuted by what has been reported and then draw conclusions based on it.

[MikeDC]

Watching the Bulls play since he has been the head coach, they played without any sense of real indentity.

Well this is just completely false. They actually have one of the strongest "identities" in the league. Their defense is easily the most unusual in the league with how focused they are in trying to get turnovers - they are far and away first in the league in TOV%. They're basically the Peanut Tillman of basketball teams. Offensively, they are one of the most Moreyball teams in the league, focusing heavily on threes and layups/dunks (they are easily first in the league in 0-3ft shots). Just look how much people bitched over the season about the lack of midrange 2s this team was taking (which is…just an awful take).

[/quote]

I agree that they had the identity you described, and that it's based on a quantitative analysis, but what has been pointed out is that on both sides of the ball, their quantitative reasoning has been bad. They fundamentally isolate and fixate on the wrong numbers because they don't have a good understanding of what those numbers mean.

* The have the highest TOV% and run an "unusual" defense because they are shooting for the wrong goals. Every other team in the league is doing it differently because the Bulls are, quite literally, doing the wrong things.

* I couldn't actually verify that they were 1st in 0-3 foot shots, but I know that the other side of the story is that while they are high in shots at the rim, they are near the bottom in FG % at the rim. They lead the league in bad shots at the rim, for sure. Wild, contested prayers into the face to a set defense.

I don't think Boylen should be an NBA head coach, but I also maintain that a lot of the criticism against him is really just because most people are still lying to themselves about the real talent/skill levels of the young guys on this team. This roster is awful.

In the Bulls case, the problem is both. Go take a look at Thad and Sato's shot charts. Do you think they magically stopped being able to make layups when they got to Chicago?

[MikeDC]

Not doing what you recognize needs to be done is a loser mentality that people should be against on principle. It's like "yeah, I'd like a drink, but I'm too lazy to do the work to go get a beer out of the fridge".

I know it's not worth arguing the truth of this statement with you because we've discussed it in the past, and I know you won't be convinced regardless, but there is absolutely reason for the new FO to feel like firing Boylen isn't something that "needs to be done" yet.

I know you completely disagree with anything that doesn't equate to Boylen being fired, but you are dealing with about 1-5% of the information the people making the decision are, and management isn't nearly so negative on him as you are. He absolutely has supporters in the FO at the moment that don't feel this way.

If you came into a new organization to do a makeover, and your boss said "give this guy a hard look, he's a lot better than you think" then you would do that, not just because your boss asked (though that's enough of a reason) but because you'd know that the people within the org probably have reason to feel this way that you couldn't have seen from the outside making it also a very reasonable thing to do.

If the people in the org were making good decisions and displaying sound judgement then I wouldn't have just been hired to do a makeover.

Also, we aren't talking about some guy working in an office here. Just like any other coach, Boylen's results, strategies, behavior, and statements are very public.

It's simply not true that we're missing 95-99% of the information available about Jim Boylen. Or any other head coach. I assume that since there's so much of this info (99%!?) you could give me loads of at least theoretical ideas on how we're mis-informed about Boylen.

My point is, regardless of my feelings about Reinsdorf, he's the owner and we need to understand things from his perspective. Since we all believe that AK's mind is already made up, and he's just going through the motions of giving Boylen a "fair chance" then it's likely Reinsdorf will too.

And I, as an owner/manager/leader do not want my new hires bullshitting me.

This is actually a pretty stupid position that AK has put himself into. If he had just been straightforward and convincing up front, pulled the band-aid off, and done so by patiently but firmly and repeatedly pointing out the vast mountain of bad results,
terrible ideas, and unacceptable behavior that Boylen has engaged in, he could have simply been done with this and spent the last several months moving forward instead of dealing with Boylen. Nothing done going forward is going to outweigh what's already happened.

Now, he not only hasn't dealt with Boylen, but he's opened up his sincerity and judgement to question.

Neither the offense nor the defense were "analytically sound" or good.

I think there's a lot more nuance here than you are admitting can possibly exist.

You appear to have started with the assumption that AK's mind is absolutely made up on Boylen. There's not a lot of reason to think that's true, especially given AK's own quotes on wanting to get to know the coaching staff and do a thorough evaluation. I don't think AK favors Boylen, but I don't know that it has to be binary of AK is 100% committed towards removing him. What was reported was actually that "he leans towards replacing him" if I recall correctly.

I wouldn't start with a binary assumption that is refuted by what has been reported and then draw conclusions based on it.[/quote]

Didn't you recently ask me what I thought the chances were that Boylen would be fired, and I gave 50/50 and I think you said it was like 99% likely AK will fire Boylen.

You can quibble if you want, but if you think something is 99% (or even 90% likely to happen) then your mind is basically made up. It's about as close to binary you can get in the real world.

[dougthonus]

If the people in the org were making good decisions and displaying sound judgement then I wouldn't have just been hired to do a makeover.

As someone who has had to perform makeovers in multiple companies, I disagree pretty strongly with this assessment. The people that were there may need to move on, but they usually aren't morons and often have very useful information.

Also, we aren't talking about some guy working in an office here. Just like any other coach, Boylen's results, strategies, behavior, and statements are very public.

It's simply not true that we're missing 95-99% of the information available about Jim Boylen. Or any other head coach. I assume that since there's so much of this info (99%!?) you could give me loads of at least theoretical ideas on how we're mis-informed about Boylen.

I disagree. You don't know what he was told to do by his bosses, you haven't seen a single practice he has run, you don't know what the players are saying about him to management, you don't know what his assistants think of him. You see what happens in games and what he says to the press. That's actually very little information.

Didn't you recently ask me what I thought the chances were that Boylen would be fired, and I gave 50/50 and I think you said it was like 99% likely AK will fire Boylen.

You can quibble if you want, but if you think something is 99% (or even 90% likely to happen) then your mind is basically made up. It's about as close to binary you can get in the real world.

Fair point, and I'm also injecting my personal opinion that Boylen is probably lousy into the situation in that. I think if he's lousy AK will fire him and I think he's lousy.

However, I think it's reasonable AK does an evaluation, and I don't take a negative view of that. You appeared to make an assumption: AK wants Boylen gone. Then appeared to draw a conclusion that AK is lousy because he hasn't fired him. The better assumption to make is AK isn't sure he wants him gone yet and will fire him when he is sure.

[StunnerKO]

Lmaoo Gafford

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[othawhitemeat]

Lmaoo Gafford

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LOL, this is amazing. He probably getting traded, but this is amazing. It just shows what all the players think of him. I understand that the Bulls are losing money and probably trying to retain Jimbo, but I hope it is a front until season is over. Rein$dorf has made enough funds. This coach is the worst coach in the NBA (at least top 3). I don't know many coaches that can do as many befuddling things as Boylen, but if we want to rebuild the right way, we need a new coach...

[HomoSapien]

There's not a single player on this team that actually likes him. Every time someone is asked to talk about him they give the most painful fake diplomatic answers.

[ImSlower]

Doug sounds like he has mounds of experience in the corporate world, and likely understands just how difficult it is to reshape a whole office. He's right that we don't know a whole bucketload of things about Boylen behind the scenes.

My opinion, though, is that most of that is irrelevant. Boylen is such an obvious negative to this franchise that we have slid ever further into a total mockery league-wide. Other players' polls put him as the worst. Our own players clearly have no respect for him. This entire forum was able to call out what was going to happen at the outset of the 3rd quarter numerous times. I think he is the single worst in-game coach in the league. Whether he has a clean office, has a clever email signature, or says neat Zen things on his Zoom calls with management are things we will never see as fans, absolutely.

I'm glad AK has given so much time and resources to his coaching considerations. I don't know whether he actually has some optimism for Boylen quite frankly becoming a significantly better coach in the immediate future, or whether he's simply saying the right things while the organization waits to fire Boylen after the bubble season ends.

Boylen as our continuing head coach is a stain on the franchise. Players under him have regressed, revolted, and now even Gafford the affable youngster is coming out saying "Yeah... he's... ok?" Firing him today would make national NBA news, and it would be a resoundingly positive response from literally everyone except Boylen and his family. As it stands, the optics are that Reinsdorf is saving his money for yet another guy he won't simply sever ties with.

Just **** fire him.

[Leslie Forman]

I agree that they had the identity you described, and that it's based on a quantitative analysis, but what has been pointed out is that on both sides of the ball, their quantitative reasoning has been bad. They fundamentally isolate and fixate on the wrong numbers because they don't have a good understanding of what those numbers mean.

* The have the highest TOV% and run an "unusual" defense because they are shooting for the wrong goals. Every other team in the league is doing it differently because the Bulls are, quite literally, doing the wrong things.

Then what are the right things to do with this roster? Focus more on rebounding, when you literally only have one good rebounder? Focus on good rotations and fundamental help defense when you have some of the worst defensive IQ players in the league playing big minutes for you? Focus on defending the paint when your only real shotblocking threat is a rookie who has no clue what he's doing out there (and also can't rebound worth a damn)?

They tried all this regular ass stuff last year. And the year before. It didn't work. The defense was in the mid 20s. So he came up with a plan over the summer and zigged when the rest of the league was zagging. Yeah it doesn't work against the 2017 Warriors. So what. He looked at the strengths of his roster (youth…that's about it), the weaknesses (pretty much everything else) and tried something totally unorthodox to maximize his extremely flawed roster and it actually worked.

I swear, if Boylen didn't look or sound the way he did, if he was going on podcasts and was chummy with the media, the narrative on what he was doing would have been seen as some ingenious extension of analytical basketball. Unfortunately for him he is an incredibly unlikable goober so that wasn't ever gonna happen.

[dougthonus]

My opinion, though, is that most of that is irrelevant. Boylen is such an obvious negative to this franchise that we have slid ever further into a total mockery league-wide. Other players' polls put him as the worst. Our own players clearly have no respect for him. This entire forum was able to call out what was going to happen at the outset of the 3rd quarter numerous times. I think he is the single worst in-game coach in the league. Whether he has a clean office, has a clever email signature, or says neat Zen things on his Zoom calls with management are things we will never see as fans, absolutely.

Just to be clear, no one cares if he has a clean office, clever email signature, or says zen things on zoom calls, and none of those things are what I speak of when I talk about what you don't see.

You don't know:
1: What Boylen's explicit directives are for the front office, and how those directives may have shaped decisions you disagree with. When the front office is saying they feel much better about him than you do, there is a good chance some of those decisions you don't like came at direct orders to implement or try.

2: Most stuff fans "see and call out" is monday morning quarterbacking where with the power of hindsight you get to complain about everything that doesn't work vs the unknown of what may have happened if they did something else instead without knowing the result. Any time a team is bad, then this version of events always reflects poorly on the coach, because even if the team is just lousy and couldn't do better, people will always think something would have been better than what you actually did.

3: You don't see how he runs practices, works with assistants, works with players, or how limited he is or isn't by the quality of players we have. With an extremely young team that has no continuity, building up a huge variety in schemes isn't likely to be successful as our guys can't even manage the basics, which limits his coaching playbook considerably. The roster and lack of experience likely shaped much of the playbook (he noted this in preseason, that they had to run simple stuff because of where the team was at in the developmental curve).

We assume the players as a group do not respect him. We don't know that's true, but AK does, because he actually has feedback from all players. If the players do not respect him, you don't actually need any other reason, because you simply can't be in a leadership position where the people you're leading don't respect you.

Boylen as our continuing head coach is a stain on the franchise. Players under him have regressed, revolted, and now even Gafford the affable youngster is coming out saying "Yeah... he's... ok?" Firing him today would make national NBA news, and it would be a resoundingly positive response from literally everyone except Boylen and his family.

Agreed.

As it stands, the optics are that Reinsdorf is saving his money for yet another guy he won't simply sever ties with.

I agree the 'optics' are this way, but it's because when a team is bad, people are lazy, angry, take things to extreme, and don't bother to research or think. They just throw every negative opinion possible out there as if it is a fact.

Boylen actually has the least guaranteed money left on his deal of any coach the Bulls have had under Paxson at the time they were fired and is tied for the last amount of years left on his deal at the time they may fire him. Not sure why anyone would think the Bulls would refuse to fire a coach with one season left and 1.6M on his deal when literally every single coach they've fired had bigger payouts and at least as much time or more left on their contract. I mean literally, three out of the four guys were 4-6x the amount of guaranteed money left on their deals as Boylen.

Coaches let go and how much was left on the books
Skiles - 1.5 seasons left ~ 6M
VDN - 1 season left ~ 2-3M (never know his salary)
Thibodeau - 2 seasons left ~ 8.5M
Hoiberg - 1.5 seasons left ~ 8M
Boylen - 1 season - 1.6M

People also seem to think the Bulls are sticking with Boylen forever. He's literally not even coached a full season start to finish, and again, none of this means we should keep him. I'm all for firing Boylen. I just want people to stop saying things that don't really make sense to say. Financial commitment isn't a likely hold up on Boylen nor have they been protecting him forever.