NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs

[Red8911]

If you're asking me then you've either not watched the video or you are just trolling.

Standard procedure should always be to assess risk and detain.

There were THEEE cops.

The level of incompetence they displayed in not assessing the danger first and then over-reacting to compensate ...is hilariously tragic.

I've watched two different videos and listened to the police scanner.

So, tell me why he wasnt detained ?

Why is he not in a jail cell?

Why didn’t the guy stop what he’s doing, listen to the cops and stop running away/fighting them? If he doesn’t do that I guarantee you he would of just went to jail without getting shot at.Its his fault for putting himself in that unnecessary situation.

Don’t get me wrong cops are messed up too for shooting at him that many times but you also got to look at the whole situation and their point of view. The guy was running back to his car, what if he had a gun in that car and started shooting at them? It’s happened many times, cops have died like that. A lot of cops would rather not take that chance. Again though this situation could have easily been avoided if the man didn’t resist.

[League Circles]

What would be your fix?

I'm not asking to be antagonistic. I genuinely would like to hear potential solutions.

Their are thousands of more qualified people who literally dedicated their lives to solving this problem (but they get stonewalled by politicians and bureaucrats). Still - since you asked - I’ll do my best.

Acknowledging the problem publicly and accepting responsibility for their own part in it is probably a good start.

Addressing the issues with qualified immunity would help. Changing quota systems would help limit the number of offices selectively enforcing “broken tail light” tactics.

Training officers in deescalation tactics as aggressively as you train them in self defense would also help. Since their already over-extended, adding actual social workers to respond to certain domestic situations might be a solution.

One of the most important things is changing the “blue wall of silence”. This require internal policy shifts that start at the academy. The police should hold themselves to a higher standard and police themselves and stringently as they police the outside world.

Civilian review boards can also help.

These are just a few places to start. I’m not a professional or an academic. And I’m not a cop. I understand it’s a tough job. But letting this continue is not making it easier. So step one is probably saying: this is clearly an issue and we are going to begin the process of addressing it. Today.

IMO, it has to start with ending the war on drugs.

Without doing that, most reforms will be fruitless.

Either ending it through legalization or winning it via unimaginably severe penalties like some other countries do. I don't have a strong personal preference but the status quo gives us the public health crisis of drugs, the violence created by illegality, and the social ills caused by mass incarceration. We could mostly eliminate at least one of those IMO by picking a lane. I'd support a national referendum following a year or two of intense public education campaigns on the pros and cons of each extreme.

[musiqsoulchild]

The presence of his children is incredibly tragic but utterly irrelevant to what they should have done. As is the fact that they were unable to restrain him.

Just listen to yourself man, you're suggesting that they should just let him kill them all (the cops, the other people and his kids) because "geez, this guy is way better at wrestling than us donut eaters so I guess we should let him follow through with his imminent and believable death threats".

Btw at least 2 of the cops followed him around the car at gunpoint/"tazer point". The third is out of the video frame but may have just been coming around the other side.

I live in Chicago. A civilian.

I am always looking and assessing situations.

These are cops ...they are supposed to assess things. They are supposed to take in all the peripheral information as quickly as possible.

They are supposed to have a plan before they show up. And a plan for what they do when they show up. And an exit strategy.

This is gross incompetence by the cops.

None of these truths you mention shed any light on what the right thing to do in the moment was. You're evading the important question. Which is that regardless of whatever mistakes they may have made if he was threatening to kill everyone right then and there why should they not shoot him?

Because his threats are not relevant to well trained cops.

Training kicks in.

Training tells them to instantly get him immobilized. Not somehow walk 6 to 7 steps and then reach behind him and shoot him.

That makes no sense. The only explanation is that it was piss poor policing.

And that's assuming the worst on Blake - that he threatened to kill them AND was reaching for the means to do it.

Even in the most charitable explanation to the cops, it's their poor policing that lead to Blake being shot.

That's a cops job. To be trained in procedure.

[HomoSapien]

Why would they boycott?

If you don't know why, you're either incredibly dense or racist.

Of course whoever disagrees is automatically a racist.

You have a history, and I'll leave it at that.

Tell me the reason they are boycotting today? What did they accomplish by not playing a basketball game? The way I see its all a publicity stunt. They can be mad about what happened that’s totally understandable but to boycott a playoff game is total bs.

First of all, it JUST happened. Demanding instant results to justify the boycott is a you problem.

The Milwaukee Bucks just publicly demanded that the Wisconsin state legislature resume session so that they can pass police reform bills that have been stalled. You can sure as hell bet that a **** ton of pressure is now on them to do that.

They've also successfully drawn even more national attention on this story. As I mentioned before, strategically they're not trying to convert racists here. They're trying to grab the attention of people who don't normally vote. Explain to me how this is a publicity stunt? What exactly are they gaining here on a personal/selfish standpoint? They sure are risking money here.

Furthermore, look at the vast array of tangible change the George Floyd/Breonna Taylor protests brought about:

- Chauvin was arrested and the three other cops were all charged.
- The cop involved in the Breonna Taylor shooting was fired.
- Cities all across the nation of redirected their police funding towards social services that are better equipped for dealing with non-violent crimes.
- Confederate statues were taken down.
- Offensive and outdated team names were changed.
- Billions of dollars were raised to support causes that stamp out systematic racism.
- Large media companies like CBS made a commitment to diversity their TV writing staffs.
- Casting changes were made all across the animation industry.

I'd be willing to bet that more changes like this occur in the next coming days.

If you guys agree with this boycott then whenever a police officer shoots anyone of any color in a similar situation then the NBA should always stop the league. Would you guys like that? It doesn’t make any sense . The NBA players have been using their platform for BLM but apparently that’s not enough.I love the Bulls and the NBA but all of this is going to hurt them in the long run.

This is just a fallacious argument. These protests are about the soul of the nation. We're at a breaking point with racial issues, and some of the most influential black people in the country are using their celebrity to bring attention to a different pandemic that never gets addressed. If you have a bigger issue with the boycott than the actual police brutality, then I'd argue that you are exactly the reason why these boycotts matter.

[musiqsoulchild]

I've watched two different videos and listened to the police scanner.

So, tell me why he wasnt detained ?

Why is he not in a jail cell?

Why didn’t the guy stop what he’s doing, listen to the cops and stop running away/fighting them? If he doesn’t do that I guarantee you he would of just went to jail without getting shot at.Its his fault for putting himself in that unnecessary situation.

Don’t get me wrong cops are messed up too for shooting at him that many times but you also got to look at the whole situation and their point of view. The guy was running back to his car, what if he had a gun in that car and started shooting at them? It’s happened many times, cops have died like that. A lot of cops would rather not take that chance. Again though this situation could have easily been avoided if the man didn’t resist.

This is not how policing manuals and procedure is.

Poor policing led to this.

You seem to be caught in an endless loop of Actions cause Consequences.

That's not how Policing was created. Consequences are a Courts responsibility. Not the Cops.

[LateNight]

I live in Chicago. A civilian.

I am always looking and assessing situations.

These are cops ...they are supposed to assess things. They are supposed to take in all the peripheral information as quickly as possible.

They are supposed to have a plan before they show up. And a plan for what they do when they show up. And an exit strategy.

This is gross incompetence by the cops.

None of these truths you mention shed any light on what the right thing to do in the moment was. You're evading the important question. Which is that regardless of whatever mistakes they may have made if he was threatening to kill everyone right then and there why should they not shoot him?

Because his threats are not relevant to well trained cops.

Training kicks in.

Training tells them to instantly get him immobilized. Not somehow walk 6 to 7 steps and then reach behind him and shoot him.

That makes no sense. The only explanation is that it was piss poor policing.

And that's assuming the worst on Blake - that he threatened to kill them AND was reaching for the means to do it.

Even in the most charitable explanation to the cops, it's their poor policing that lead to Blake being shot.

That's a cops job. To be trained in procedure.

Yep - there are clearly a whole bunch of training issues that need to be addressed in the police force. We know this because people within the police force have stated as much and we are seeing something that is partially the result of that poor training.

Here’s an article from a West Point Strategist trying to explain why better Rules Of Engagement might help: https://www.google.com/amp/s/improvingpolice.blog/2017/09/07/rules-of-engagement-roe/amp/

It’s obviously not perfect - military members have been known to kill civilians and commit heinous war crimes - but it’s worth noting that other armed government agents also think these problems start with flawed training.

[HomoSapien]

So I guess we're in the head-counting phase of the revolution.

What point are you trying to make?

That we're beyond fact-finding and robust discussion.

Step back from you glib comments for a sec and explain to me what issue you had with the notion that boycotts/protest could push people who don't normally vote into voting?

[Shill]

What point are you trying to make?

That we're beyond fact-finding and robust discussion.

Step back from you glib comments for a sec and explain to me what issue you had with the notion that boycotts/protest could push people who don't normally vote into voting?

Because we don't even know the facts of the case, and the players are already boycotting.

What if the boycotts activate people to vote in a way the players might not like?

[cjbulls]

I wonder what reaction would have been if the games had fans. It would have made more of an impact if people paid for tix, parking, showed up and grabbed concessions only to find the teams didn’t show up.

The lockdown muted the message a bit.

[League Circles]

I live in Chicago. A civilian.

I am always looking and assessing situations.

These are cops ...they are supposed to assess things. They are supposed to take in all the peripheral information as quickly as possible.

They are supposed to have a plan before they show up. And a plan for what they do when they show up. And an exit strategy.

This is gross incompetence by the cops.

None of these truths you mention shed any light on what the right thing to do in the moment was. You're evading the important question. Which is that regardless of whatever mistakes they may have made if he was threatening to kill everyone right then and there why should they not shoot him?

Because his threats are not relevant to well trained cops.

Training kicks in.

Training tells them to instantly get him immobilized. Not somehow walk 6 to 7 steps and then reach behind him and shoot him.

That makes no sense. The only explanation is that it was piss poor policing.

And that's assuming the worst on Blake - that he threatened to kill them AND was reaching for the means to do it.

Even in the most charitable explanation to the cops, it's their poor policing that lead to Blake being shot.

That's a cops job. To be trained in procedure.

Are you kidding me???????

so police officers should just not believe imminent death threats by people that they have absolutely every reason to believe are willing to back it up?

it is my understanding the cops are trained not to try to wrestle people like that to the ground because their guns very well may be taken away from them and used against them. It has definitely happened.

What if he was threatening to kill his own children? Should they have just kept firing tasers and kept trying to wrestle him then? Should school shooters just be "assessed" and detained?

It actually doesn't matter whether he was reaching for a gun. What mostly matters is what, if anything, was said.

I'm certainly not assuming anything. I'm realizing that there are multiple very different plausible alternatives that I can't exclude based on the very limited evidence available.

[HomoSapien]

That we're beyond fact-finding and robust discussion.

Step back from you glib comments for a sec and explain to me what issue you had with the notion that boycotts/protest could push people who don't normally vote into voting?

Because we don't even know the facts of the case, and the players are already boycotting.

What if the boycotts activate people to vote in a way the players might not like?

We've seen this story a thousand times. Enough's enough.

[musiqsoulchild]

None of these truths you mention shed any light on what the right thing to do in the moment was. You're evading the important question. Which is that regardless of whatever mistakes they may have made if he was threatening to kill everyone right then and there why should they not shoot him?

Because his threats are not relevant to well trained cops.

Training kicks in.

Training tells them to instantly get him immobilized. Not somehow walk 6 to 7 steps and then reach behind him and shoot him.

That makes no sense. The only explanation is that it was piss poor policing.

And that's assuming the worst on Blake - that he threatened to kill them AND was reaching for the means to do it.

Even in the most charitable explanation to the cops, it's their poor policing that lead to Blake being shot.

That's a cops job. To be trained in procedure.

Are you kidding me???????

so police officers should just not believe imminent death threats by people that they have absolutely every reason to believe are willing to back it up?

it is my understanding the cops are trained not to try to wrestle people like that to the ground because their guns very well may be taken away from them and used against them. It has definitely happened.

What if he was threatening to kill his own children? Should they have just kept firing tasers and kept trying to wrestle him then? Should school shooters just be "assessed" and detained?

It actually doesn't matter whether he was reaching for a gun. What mostly matters is what, if anything, was said.

I'm certainly not assuming anything. I'm realizing that there are multiple very different plausible alternatives that I can't exclude based on the very limited evidence available.

Whata about cops driving past a guy in civil clothes with a gun as tall as him?

And not arresting him until 24 hours later?

[dougthonus]

We've seen this story a thousand times. Enough's enough.

There are some really severe problems with your view:
1: Many people are advocating for guilty until proven innocent
2: People are unwilling to participate in even reasonable discourse and calling people racist who attempt reasonable discourse
3: People are using these incidents as excuses to commit massive amounts of crime against further innocents

I would not be surprised to see a strong backlash coming on the movement. I would count myself as generally extremely liberal, and the above things really bother me. There are aspects of this movement that have become a witch hunt. Facts are thrown out the window. Due process is thrown out the window. Crime is actively encouraged by some movement leaders. The many good police are punished for the actions of a few. Anyone who points out anything contrary to the movement is immediately branded a racist regardless of whether their thoughts are accurate and relevant.

[FecesOfDeath]

Flawed training, or an fluffy enforcement policy crafted by sympathetic politicians that gives the apprehendee the ability to take advantage of the situation aside from the terrible but necessary last resort action?

Who wants a law enforcement career right now when the only a actions they can take appear to be either giving the suspect a loving hug or shooting him when and only when hugging fails?

[Shill]

Floyd/Breonna Taylor protests brought about:

- Chauvin was arrested and the three other cops were all charged.
- The cop involved in the Breonna Taylor shooting was fired.
- Cities all across the nation of redirected their police funding towards social services that are better equipped for dealing with non-violent crimes.
- Confederate statues were taken down.
- Offensive and outdated team names were changed.
- Billions of dollars were raised to support causes that stamp out systematic racism.
- Large media companies like CBS made a commitment to diversity their TV writing staffs.
- Casting changes were made all across the animation industry.

I'd be willing to bet that more changes like this occur in the next coming days.

The protests also brought about 30+ people dead, many businesses destroyed, Minneapolis looking bombed out, a massive uptick in violent crime in multiple cities, and civil unrest at a fever pitch.

Chauvin might even end up walking because of the rush to judgment.

The Breonna Taylor incident could've been an opportunity to get rid of no-knock raids, which even law enforcement officers hate.

I'm no fan of confederate statutes, but tearing those down does nothing to help struggling communities. Hell, one guy in Portsmouth, VA is still fighting for his life after a Jefferson Davis statue fell on his head.

[Shill]

I would not be surprised to see a strong backlash coming on the movement.

It's already happening.

According to polling, support for BLM is back down to its pre-Floyd levels.

The #DefundThePolice movement also polled very poorly.

[musiqsoulchild]

We've seen this story a thousand times. Enough's enough.

There are some really severe problems with your view:
1: Many people are advocating for guilty until proven innocent
2: People are unwilling to participate in even reasonable discourse and calling people racist who attempt reasonable discourse
3: People are using these incidents as excuses to commit massive amounts of crime against further innocents

I would not be surprised to see a strong backlash coming on the movement. I would count myself as generally extremely liberal, and the above things really bother me. There are aspects of this movement that have become a witch hunt. Facts are thrown out the window. Due process is thrown out the window. Crime is actively encouraged by some movement leaders. The many good police are punished for the actions of a few. Anyone who points out anything contrary to the movement is immediately branded a racist regardless of whether their thoughts are accurate and relevant.

Doug...let's be real here.

The irony in this is so precious.

Most of these Wisconsin / Illinois neighborhoods were created and became popular as a place for organized crime to go out of the jurisdiction of Chicago cops.

Capone et al.

The point being that you're not looking at this in its entirety.

If we cant agree on what the beginning and the ending point of systemic oppression is...then we will be in an endless argument.

I see it plain as daylight.

Cops have always been hotheaded and acted above the law.

Its only now that the slaves have representation that they are being called out. And its starting to piss them off.

[musiqsoulchild]

I wonder what reaction would have been if the games had fans. It would have made more of an impact if people paid for tix, parking, showed up and grabbed concessions only to find the teams didn’t show up.

The lockdown muted the message a bit.

Lockdown has magnified it.

People and families have to talk about it now.

It's on TV. Or online.

No one can escape it.

[cjbulls]

I wonder what reaction would have been if the games had fans. It would have made more of an impact if people paid for tix, parking, showed up and grabbed concessions only to find the teams didn’t show up.

The lockdown muted the message a bit.

Lockdown has magnified it.

People and families have to talk about it now.

It's on TV. Or online.

No one can escape it.

Meh, that’s true for issue but not the NBa. To me, and I’m guessing others, it’s like “oh they just moved the game to Friday. I’ll watch it then.”

Boycotting the season by a team, significant players or the league is he only thing that would get real notice. If the Bucks just refused to play going forward, or Harden specifically left the bubble, then the message would have more value

[FecesOfDeath]

I wonder what reaction would have been if the games had fans. It would have made more of an impact if people paid for tix, parking, showed up and grabbed concessions only to find the teams didn’t show up.

The lockdown muted the message a bit.

Lockdown has magnified it.

People and families have to talk about it now.

It's on TV. Or online.

No one can escape it.

Meh, that’s true for issue but not the NBa. To me, and I’m guessing others, it’s like “oh they just moved the game to Friday. I’ll watch it then.”

Boycotting the season by a team, significant players or the league is he only thing that would get real notice. If the Bucks just refused to play going forward, or Harden specifically left the bubble, then the message would have more value

At a time when more people are at home during the day than recently ever, viewership ratings for sports should arguably be at an all-time high, but they're not. Even the boring but apolitical PGA is outperforming these BLM-supporting sports.

These NBA team boycotts are making headlines, but most people don't care in they way that would compel them to watch in the first place.