Lauri:' I can make the comeback'

[the ultimates]

Lauri is not an average defender at all.

Oh but he is.

And I'm not talking about team defense here. We all know that Boylen's team D schemes were total dumpster fires and made pretty much everyone on the team look bad.

But Lauri can definitely hold his own individually defending his own position (and occasionally 3 & 5). To say that he somehow sucks at this is a flat-out lie.

I mean Lauri is probably a tad below average 40th percentile defender from my eye test and the advanced stats indicate.
But thats mostly due to his sucky interior defense and inability to be a rim protector despite being 7ft.
Bringing those rebounding numbers over 8 after getting rid of Boylen will indicate he will become an average defender and not a total defensive liability like Lavine who is still one of the worst defenders in the league and the Bulls are actually better when he never plays.
Lauri's relatively decent court awareness and height combined with good bbiq wont let him be a defensive liability unless he tores an ACL like Lavine. Shockingly, Lavine cannot guard a chair with midget Young, similarly size Harden, and slow footed Doncic blowing past which is why he always guards the JJ reddicks, kyle korvers dougies that dont move. But you cannot hide him forever when in playoffs he gets exposed unlike Harden whose greatness rivals MJ actually want him to suck at defense to preserve energy.

You don't make any sense. You say Lauri should be a center and then in this very post you say he has sucky interior defense and rim protection. So two critical things NBA centers are asked to do he's bad at. Then Lavine in your eyes is a bad defender because he can't guard midget Young, I'm guessing Trae, Harden, and Doncic. So he's a bad defender because he can't guard elite offensive talents that nobody slows down, like seriously. Reddick, Korver, and Mcdermott don't create their own shot but they move because they get a crap ton of off the ball screens set for them. This is a legit question do you actually watch basketball?

[JohnnyKILLroy]

It's amusing how many people are "ready to trade Lauri". Get real. His trade value is low as hell right now, there's NO WAY the Bulls are doing anything. And if he picks it up next season and becomes a force under Donovan, you can be DAMN sure the Bulls will give him a big deal.

If he doesn't... well, all bets are off. Lauri might want a change of scenery himself in that case. We'll see.

I generally agree with this except I do believe he might retain some trade value based on potential. If so, the question is what is adequate value?

It might not be fair, and might be Boylen or injuries, but Lauri’s passivity last year shocked and turned me. I would still only trade him for value due to the highs we’ve seen, but to me that “value” come in around a 8-11 pick in this draft. It’s possible a team would offer that, in what is perceived to be a poor draft, to roll the dice on his upside.

Otherwise, keep him for sure and hope the good glimpses are the real Lauri.

I might do this for Patrick Williams.

[TheSuzerain]

Oh but he is.

And I'm not talking about team defense here. We all know that Boylen's team D schemes were total dumpster fires and made pretty much everyone on the team look bad.

But Lauri can definitely hold his own individually defending his own position (and occasionally 3 & 5). To say that he somehow sucks at this is a flat-out lie.

I mean Lauri is probably a tad below average 40th percentile defender from my eye test and the advanced stats indicate.
But thats mostly due to his sucky interior defense and inability to be a rim protector despite being 7ft.
Bringing those rebounding numbers over 8 after getting rid of Boylen will indicate he will become an average defender and not a total defensive liability like Lavine who is still one of the worst defenders in the league and the Bulls are actually better when he never plays.
Lauri's relatively decent court awareness and height combined with good bbiq wont let him be a defensive liability unless he tores an ACL like Lavine. Shockingly, Lavine cannot guard a chair with midget Young, similarly size Harden, and slow footed Doncic blowing past which is why he always guards the JJ reddicks, kyle korvers dougies that dont move. But you cannot hide him forever when in playoffs he gets exposed unlike Harden whose greatness rivals MJ actually want him to suck at defense to preserve energy.

You don't make any sense. You say Lauri should be a center and then in this very post you say he has sucky interior defense and rim protection. So two critical things NBA centers are asked to do he's bad at. Then Lavine in your eyes is a bad defender because he can't guard midget Young, I'm guessing Trae, Harden, and Doncic. So he's a bad defender because he can't guard elite offensive talents that nobody slows down, like seriously. Reddick, Korver, and Mcdermott don't create their own shot but they move because they get a crap ton of off the ball screens set for them. This is a legit question do you actually watch basketball?

Problem is that defending ball handlers is a critical thing that NBA Power Forwards are often asked to, and he's bad at that too.

[Dieselbound&Down]

I mean Lauri is probably a tad below average 40th percentile defender from my eye test and the advanced stats indicate.
But thats mostly due to his sucky interior defense and inability to be a rim protector despite being 7ft.
Bringing those rebounding numbers over 8 after getting rid of Boylen will indicate he will become an average defender and not a total defensive liability like Lavine who is still one of the worst defenders in the league and the Bulls are actually better when he never plays.
Lauri's relatively decent court awareness and height combined with good bbiq wont let him be a defensive liability unless he tores an ACL like Lavine. Shockingly, Lavine cannot guard a chair with midget Young, similarly size Harden, and slow footed Doncic blowing past which is why he always guards the JJ reddicks, kyle korvers dougies that dont move. But you cannot hide him forever when in playoffs he gets exposed unlike Harden whose greatness rivals MJ actually want him to suck at defense to preserve energy.

You don't make any sense. You say Lauri should be a center and then in this very post you say he has sucky interior defense and rim protection. So two critical things NBA centers are asked to do he's bad at. Then Lavine in your eyes is a bad defender because he can't guard midget Young, I'm guessing Trae, Harden, and Doncic. So he's a bad defender because he can't guard elite offensive talents that nobody slows down, like seriously. Reddick, Korver, and Mcdermott don't create their own shot but they move because they get a crap ton of off the ball screens set for them. This is a legit question do you actually watch basketball?

Problem is that defending ball handlers is a critical thing that NBA Power Forwards are often asked to, and he's bad at that too.

Boy, when you put it that way, I'm not sure he's a good defender. At least he's a great shooter (erm. . . .).

[ZOMG]

I mean Lauri is probably a tad below average 40th percentile defender from my eye test and the advanced stats indicate.
But thats mostly due to his sucky interior defense and inability to be a rim protector despite being 7ft.
Bringing those rebounding numbers over 8 after getting rid of Boylen will indicate he will become an average defender and not a total defensive liability like Lavine who is still one of the worst defenders in the league and the Bulls are actually better when he never plays.
Lauri's relatively decent court awareness and height combined with good bbiq wont let him be a defensive liability unless he tores an ACL like Lavine. Shockingly, Lavine cannot guard a chair with midget Young, similarly size Harden, and slow footed Doncic blowing past which is why he always guards the JJ reddicks, kyle korvers dougies that dont move. But you cannot hide him forever when in playoffs he gets exposed unlike Harden whose greatness rivals MJ actually want him to suck at defense to preserve energy.

You don't make any sense. You say Lauri should be a center and then in this very post you say he has sucky interior defense and rim protection. So two critical things NBA centers are asked to do he's bad at. Then Lavine in your eyes is a bad defender because he can't guard midget Young, I'm guessing Trae, Harden, and Doncic. So he's a bad defender because he can't guard elite offensive talents that nobody slows down, like seriously. Reddick, Korver, and Mcdermott don't create their own shot but they move because they get a crap ton of off the ball screens set for them. This is a legit question do you actually watch basketball?

Problem is that defending ball handlers is a critical thing that NBA Power Forwards are often asked to, and he's bad at that too.

What? Defending ball handlers is his BEST attribute as a defender. This is a guy who embarrassed Steph Curry, one of the best ballhandlers in the league. However, to be effective in this respect Lauri needs to be a lot lighter than he's been for the last two seasons.

The Bulls roster is full of turnstile defenders who regularly get abused at the perimeter - Wendell (one of the slowest young 6'9'' NBA players I've ever seen, with feet of lead), Zach (matador extraordinaire), Coby (alligator arms).. the list goes on. But Lauri generally holds his own.

[Louri]

Some takes from Lauri's finnish podcast interview:

Physical training hasn’t changed that much. He is in condition that in few summers he has not gain more weight. More muscle mass and lower fat%.

Trains lot’s of shots, finishing and ball handling. Learning how to read game better like passing from drives. Has tweaked shooting to be a bit faster. Removed “pump” mechanic from it to be more constant. It’s long process as he has shot many years with same mechanics. Uses now more finger tips in shot.

He thinks he is at his best when he gets ball when moving. He train lot’s of drives and closeouts. He also does practice isolation and face up posting. 50-50.

After 5 years he see that he will play 4 and 5. They have talked that he will also play 5 next season. He has not used to play 5 so it will take time to improve.

He know that he has to change mindset from total team player to more selfish. But it takes time as he has always been team player. They have not talked that Lauri needs to take more “bad shots” for himself. In his mind passing to open man is still best choice.

He would love to come out from screens more and not always just set screens like this season. He said also that “extended post faceup” is feels best for him.

[FranchisePlayer]

Haven't read the thread but do have a question.

Don't you have to have been there before you can make a comeback? Not sure he has really been anywhere at this point

Define there? Lauri probably has an idea of the level he was at his best and clearly it wasn't last season.

He's been selected in the Rising Stars challenge twice so obviously he's been "there or somewhere" according to many people to earn that spot.

[chefo]

Lauri is not some kid who played 15 games in college so we have to guess how he's going to pan out. We know what he HAS done against NBA talent. Therefore, we know what he CAN be.

Lauri was treated as a 1a/1b under Hoiberg and it continued under Boylen for the remainder of the season. Same treatments as Zach. He got to handle the ball on the P&R, be the screener in the P&R (you guys remember that Atlanta game?), use off-ball screens, drive and use the elbow to shoot over people. The last 20 games of his rookie year and next year, Lauri was a straight up stud. FebruLauri was not some insane Niko-like hot shooting stretch. He was just so versatile, if you got him the ball in a position where he can do something with it. On top of that, Hoiberg did more than just feature Lauri on O. Because Lauri has good straight-line speed and is very athletic for a guy so tall, he had the others, especially Rolo focus on boxing out so that Lauri can grab the board and go. He's very difficult to stop once he picks up speed just because he's so big. Mind you, that's the same exact strategy Coach Donovan implemented for Russ in OKC.

Boylen went away from virtually everything I described above last year. Like everything. He was no longer allowed to play at the elbow. He no longer set screens for Zach and the other guards. He no longer was allowed to ball-handle in the P&R. He almost never was screened for off-ball. He was allowed two things--like every other Bull. Shoot the ball when it was swung to him (which may not happen for a quarter at a time sometimes), or drive all the way to the rack. That's it. A 7 footer, unless his name in Giannis, cannot do the driving from that far out. Nobody ever has been able to pull that off. That's like 3-4 dribbles, especially when he catches it at a stand-still like the vast majority of the time. By the time he's anywhere near the paint, there was already a frat party going on down there. BTW, Zach faced the same issue, and he's fast for an NBA guard. To expect that out of a 7 footer is just idiotic game management.

The ways you use a 7 footer who does not have a large posterior, if he's guarded by a much smaller player, are:
1.) To down screen for him on the strong side and get him the ball in the mid-block either facing the bucket or half-turned, at worst
2.) To high low with a C that can make a 17 foot FT jumper
3.) To get him at the elbow, where he's a single dribble away from the hoop or he can just rise up for a short jumper over people.

The way you use a seven footer who's being guarded by a slower big, is to get him the ball in motion:
Use him as the pick-setter. Over and over, and over. Make him pop most of the time, roll on occasion to keep the D honest. It's not rocket science.

Just take what the D gives you. That's what makes a player like Lauri so valuable in theory. He can score against ANY D, if the team is smart about where he gets the ball and how.

I'm not reinventing the wheel here. I watched enough ball in the 90s to see that's how ALL the elite offensive bigs (apart from Shaq) were used. And none of them could shoot consistently from 3, so their pick and pops were 18 foot jumpers, not 3s. And nobody would think to guard a tall big with a much smaller player unless that player's name was Rodman because a small player cannot guard a skilled big at the elbow without a lot of help.

If a big is talented and/or athletic, he did not need to have insane McHale-like foot work to score in bunches. Again, we're not talking about a 6'6 guy. Lauri is legit 7 feet tall. He doesn't need post moves to average 22-23 ppg. He can do it as-is. If he actually learned good post footwork, we'd be talking a top-5 offensive talent in the entire NBA. That's probably an unrealistic expectation. Just to remind people--he was at 21/10 per 36 as a soph.

Here's the crazy thing--the Bulls actually used Lauri like that for entire stretches and he kicked butt for the limited time he was on the floor. I'm not guessing here--we've seen him do it. Which is why, like any rational person looking at his soph campaign, I thought that if you jacked up his usage to 27-29, he'd demolish people his third year.

Which is why what happened last year was the biggest shocker of all. To me at least. When you have a guy like Lauri, who among other things was pretty hyped-up and visible league-wide his rookie season, your job is to make him look as good as humanely possible. A team with a 22 ppg Zach, and 22 ppg Lauri would look infinitely more attractive to good NBA players than a team with 25ppg Zach and 14ppg Lauri. Instead, he was told to space out and go nowhere near the ball handler... because offensive schemes, you see. They were offensive, all right, by virtue of the sheer idiocy of using your second best offensive player in the same role that you can fill with a 6'6 journeyman. Schematically, you didn't need a second option AT ALL in the O the Bulls ran last year.

Anyways, as a big forward himself, I think AK probably understands what Lauri needs to do--forget about him playing C. Make him lose 15 pounds and play F like he did his rookie campaign. Make a concentrated effort to feature him, like in years past. There's every indication that he'll reward that with production.

There's always the possibility that the Bulls completely derailed his career last year. Crossing fingers that he can bounce back.

Kudos to you, chefo! How do you find the time to post gems like this is beyond me. How much time did that take from you?

Thanks . Not much time, probably like 15 minutes. I type fast ...

[FranchisePlayer]

Lauri is not some kid who played 15 games in college so we have to guess how he's going to pan out. We know what he HAS done against NBA talent. Therefore, we know what he CAN be.

Lauri was treated as a 1a/1b under Hoiberg and it continued under Boylen for the remainder of the season. Same treatments as Zach. He got to handle the ball on the P&R, be the screener in the P&R (you guys remember that Atlanta game?), use off-ball screens, drive and use the elbow to shoot over people. The last 20 games of his rookie year and next year, Lauri was a straight up stud. FebruLauri was not some insane Niko-like hot shooting stretch. He was just so versatile, if you got him the ball in a position where he can do something with it. On top of that, Hoiberg did more than just feature Lauri on O. Because Lauri has good straight-line speed and is very athletic for a guy so tall, he had the others, especially Rolo focus on boxing out so that Lauri can grab the board and go. He's very difficult to stop once he picks up speed just because he's so big. Mind you, that's the same exact strategy Coach Donovan implemented for Russ in OKC.

Boylen went away from virtually everything I described above last year. Like everything. He was no longer allowed to play at the elbow. He no longer set screens for Zach and the other guards. He no longer was allowed to ball-handle in the P&R. He almost never was screened for off-ball. He was allowed two things--like every other Bull. Shoot the ball when it was swung to him (which may not happen for a quarter at a time sometimes), or drive all the way to the rack. That's it. A 7 footer, unless his name in Giannis, cannot do the driving from that far out. Nobody ever has been able to pull that off. That's like 3-4 dribbles, especially when he catches it at a stand-still like the vast majority of the time. By the time he's anywhere near the paint, there was already a frat party going on down there. BTW, Zach faced the same issue, and he's fast for an NBA guard. To expect that out of a 7 footer is just idiotic game management.

The ways you use a 7 footer who does not have a large posterior, if he's guarded by a much smaller player, are:
1.) To down screen for him on the strong side and get him the ball in the mid-block either facing the bucket or half-turned, at worst
2.) To high low with a C that can make a 17 foot FT jumper
3.) To get him at the elbow, where he's a single dribble away from the hoop or he can just rise up for a short jumper over people.

The way you use a seven footer who's being guarded by a slower big, is to get him the ball in motion:
Use him as the pick-setter. Over and over, and over. Make him pop most of the time, roll on occasion to keep the D honest. It's not rocket science.

Just take what the D gives you. That's what makes a player like Lauri so valuable in theory. He can score against ANY D, if the team is smart about where he gets the ball and how.

I'm not reinventing the wheel here. I watched enough ball in the 90s to see that's how ALL the elite offensive bigs (apart from Shaq) were used. And none of them could shoot consistently from 3, so their pick and pops were 18 foot jumpers, not 3s. And nobody would think to guard a tall big with a much smaller player unless that player's name was Rodman because a small player cannot guard a skilled big at the elbow without a lot of help.

If a big is talented and/or athletic, he did not need to have insane McHale-like foot work to score in bunches. Again, we're not talking about a 6'6 guy. Lauri is legit 7 feet tall. He doesn't need post moves to average 22-23 ppg. He can do it as-is. If he actually learned good post footwork, we'd be talking a top-5 offensive talent in the entire NBA. That's probably an unrealistic expectation. Just to remind people--he was at 21/10 per 36 as a soph.

Here's the crazy thing--the Bulls actually used Lauri like that for entire stretches and he kicked butt for the limited time he was on the floor. I'm not guessing here--we've seen him do it. Which is why, like any rational person looking at his soph campaign, I thought that if you jacked up his usage to 27-29, he'd demolish people his third year.

Which is why what happened last year was the biggest shocker of all. To me at least. When you have a guy like Lauri, who among other things was pretty hyped-up and visible league-wide his rookie season, your job is to make him look as good as humanely possible. A team with a 22 ppg Zach, and 22 ppg Lauri would look infinitely more attractive to good NBA players than a team with 25ppg Zach and 14ppg Lauri. Instead, he was told to space out and go nowhere near the ball handler... because offensive schemes, you see. They were offensive, all right, by virtue of the sheer idiocy of using your second best offensive player in the same role that you can fill with a 6'6 journeyman. Schematically, you didn't need a second option AT ALL in the O the Bulls ran last year.

Anyways, as a big forward himself, I think AK probably understands what Lauri needs to do--forget about him playing C. Make him lose 15 pounds and play F like he did his rookie campaign. Make a concentrated effort to feature him, like in years past. There's every indication that he'll reward that with production.

There's always the possibility that the Bulls completely derailed his career last year. Crossing fingers that he can bounce back.

Kudos to you, chefo! How do you find the time to post gems like this is beyond me. How much time did that take from you?

Thanks . Not much time, probably like 15 minutes. I type fast ...

Get the **** out of here - no way! I wouldn't even type that post so fast, let alone think in the midst of it... have a good one, you deserve it!

[sco]

Some takes from Lauri's finnish podcast interview:

Physical training hasn’t changed that much. He is in condition that in few summers he has not gain more weight. More muscle mass and lower fat%.

Trains lot’s of shots, finishing and ball handling. Learning how to read game better like passing from drives. Has tweaked shooting to be a bit faster. Removed “pump” mechanic from it to be more constant. It’s long process as he has shot many years with same mechanics. Uses now more finger tips in shot.

He thinks he is at his best when he gets ball when moving. He train lot’s of drives and closeouts. He also does practice isolation and face up posting. 50-50.

After 5 years he see that he will play 4 and 5. They have talked that he will also play 5 next season. He has not used to play 5 so it will take time to improve.

He know that he has to change mindset from total team player to more selfish. But it takes time as he has always been team player. They have not talked that Lauri needs to take more “bad shots” for himself. In his mind passing to open man is still best choice.

He would love to come out from screens more and not always just set screens like this season. He said also that “extended post faceup” is feels best for him.

[Dez]

You don't make any sense. You say Lauri should be a center and then in this very post you say he has sucky interior defense and rim protection. So two critical things NBA centers are asked to do he's bad at. Then Lavine in your eyes is a bad defender because he can't guard midget Young, I'm guessing Trae, Harden, and Doncic. So he's a bad defender because he can't guard elite offensive talents that nobody slows down, like seriously. Reddick, Korver, and Mcdermott don't create their own shot but they move because they get a crap ton of off the ball screens set for them. This is a legit question do you actually watch basketball?

Problem is that defending ball handlers is a critical thing that NBA Power Forwards are often asked to, and he's bad at that too.

What? Defending ball handlers is his BEST attribute as a defender. This is a guy who embarrassed Steph Curry, one of the best ballhandlers in the league. However, to be effective in this respect Lauri needs to be a lot lighter than he's been for the last two seasons.

The Bulls roster is full of turnstile defenders who regularly get abused at the perimeter - Wendell (one of the slowest young 6'9'' NBA players I've ever seen, with feet of lead), Zach (matador extraordinaire), Coby (alligator arms).. the list goes on. But Lauri generally holds his own.

So he made one defensive play and now he holds his own? No.

Also LaVine isn't a bad man defender, he's average.

[WindyCityBorn]

Problem is that defending ball handlers is a critical thing that NBA Power Forwards are often asked to, and he's bad at that too.

What? Defending ball handlers is his BEST attribute as a defender. This is a guy who embarrassed Steph Curry, one of the best ballhandlers in the league. However, to be effective in this respect Lauri needs to be a lot lighter than he's been for the last two seasons.

The Bulls roster is full of turnstile defenders who regularly get abused at the perimeter - Wendell (one of the slowest young 6'9'' NBA players I've ever seen, with feet of lead), Zach (matador extraordinaire), Coby (alligator arms).. the list goes on. But Lauri generally holds his own.

So he made one defensive play and now he holds his own? No.

Also LaVine isn't a bad man defender, he's average.

These Lauri fanboys are just upset that LaVine is clearly the better player and focus of the offense now. They will feel the same way about Coby soon if they don't already.

[PaKii94]

What? Defending ball handlers is his BEST attribute as a defender. This is a guy who embarrassed Steph Curry, one of the best ballhandlers in the league. However, to be effective in this respect Lauri needs to be a lot lighter than he's been for the last two seasons.

The Bulls roster is full of turnstile defenders who regularly get abused at the perimeter - Wendell (one of the slowest young 6'9'' NBA players I've ever seen, with feet of lead), Zach (matador extraordinaire), Coby (alligator arms).. the list goes on. But Lauri generally holds his own.

So he made one defensive play and now he holds his own? No.

Also LaVine isn't a bad man defender, he's average.

These Lauri fanboys are just upset that LaVine is clearly the better player and focus of the offense now. They will feel the same way about Coby soon if they don't already.

Don't worry the hate won't come to Coby. He's shown 3x better decision making/shot selection/playmaking in his rookie season compared to Lavine his whole career.

[PhilLeotardo]

Markkanen is a terrible defender; man, team, zone, outer space, wherever lol. He’s never embarrassed a single player in the NBA on defense, what an absurd notion

[SfBull]

Some takes from Lauri's finnish podcast interview:

Physical training hasn’t changed that much. He is in condition that in few summers he has not gain more weight. More muscle mass and lower fat%.

Trains lot’s of shots, finishing and ball handling. Learning how to read game better like passing from drives. Has tweaked shooting to be a bit faster. Removed “pump” mechanic from it to be more constant. It’s long process as he has shot many years with same mechanics. Uses now more finger tips in shot.

He thinks he is at his best when he gets ball when moving. He train lot’s of drives and closeouts. He also does practice isolation and face up posting. 50-50.

After 5 years he see that he will play 4 and 5. They have talked that he will also play 5 next season. He has not used to play 5 so it will take time to improve.

He know that he has to change mindset from total team player to more selfish. But it takes time as he has always been team player. They have not talked that Lauri needs to take more “bad shots” for himself. In his mind passing to open man is still best choice.

He would love to come out from screens more and not always just set screens like this season. He said also that “extended post faceup” is feels best for him.

Reading these words makes me feel more optimistic about Lauri growing into a much better player next season.

[ZOMG]

Problem is that defending ball handlers is a critical thing that NBA Power Forwards are often asked to, and he's bad at that too.

What? Defending ball handlers is his BEST attribute as a defender. This is a guy who embarrassed Steph Curry, one of the best ballhandlers in the league. However, to be effective in this respect Lauri needs to be a lot lighter than he's been for the last two seasons.

The Bulls roster is full of turnstile defenders who regularly get abused at the perimeter - Wendell (one of the slowest young 6'9'' NBA players I've ever seen, with feet of lead), Zach (matador extraordinaire), Coby (alligator arms).. the list goes on. But Lauri generally holds his own.

So he made one defensive play and now he holds his own? No.

Also LaVine isn't a bad man defender, he's average.

You know just as well as I do that if Lauri was this horrible, hopeless sieve of a defender at all positions, he wouldn't even have played in Boylen's rah-rah system. It's clear that he's no rim protector but is perfectly serviceable at defending on the wing - and can definitely pick up ballhandlers occasionally out of PnR's.

[Dez]

What? Defending ball handlers is his BEST attribute as a defender. This is a guy who embarrassed Steph Curry, one of the best ballhandlers in the league. However, to be effective in this respect Lauri needs to be a lot lighter than he's been for the last two seasons.

The Bulls roster is full of turnstile defenders who regularly get abused at the perimeter - Wendell (one of the slowest young 6'9'' NBA players I've ever seen, with feet of lead), Zach (matador extraordinaire), Coby (alligator arms).. the list goes on. But Lauri generally holds his own.

So he made one defensive play and now he holds his own? No.

Also LaVine isn't a bad man defender, he's average.

You know just as well as I do that if Lauri was this horrible, hopeless sieve of a defender at all positions, he wouldn't even have played in Boylen's rah-rah system. It's clear that he's no rim protector but is perfectly serviceable at defending on the wing - and can definitely pick up ballhandlers occasionally out of PnR's.

So if LaVine was this matador defender you claim he is then couldn't you apply the same thing to him?

I disagree completely that he's serviceable at any form of defense but we'll have to agree to disagree.

[WindyCityBorn]

So he made one defensive play and now he holds his own? No.

Also LaVine isn't a bad man defender, he's average.

These Lauri fanboys are just upset that LaVine is clearly the better player and focus of the offense now. They will feel the same way about Coby soon if they don't already.

Don't worry the hate won't come to Coby. He's shown 3x better decision making/shot selection/playmaking in his rookie season compared to Lavine his whole career.

It already has come. I see plenty of talk about how he isn't a real Pg, doesn't distribute the ball and he and Zach get to shoot as much as they want. And how he may just be a 6th man.

[kodo]

Also LaVine isn't a bad man defender, he's average.

Agreed, I would even say Lavine is an excellent (not elite) individual defender.
Isolation defense: 0.75 ppp, 77th percentile
P&R defense: 0.68 ppp, 92nd percentile

Where he falls apart is weakside rotation, covering spot up shooters off screens, etc.. Although that's pretty common even with elite players. We wouldn't have playoff games going up to 150 in 4 quarters if this was easy to defend.

But if someone is going to iso him or run a simple P&R, Lavine does hustle and use his athleticism. A lot of primary scoring options don't even care on that side.

[PaKii94]

Also LaVine isn't a bad man defender, he's average.

Agreed, I would even say Lavine is an excellent (not elite) individual defender.
Isolation defense: 0.75 ppp, 77th percentile
P&R defense: 0.68 ppp, 92nd percentile

Where he falls apart is weakside rotation, covering spot up shooters off screens, etc.. Although that's pretty common even with elite players. We wouldn't have playoff games going up to 150 in 4 quarters if this was easy to defend.

But if someone is going to iso him or run a simple P&R, Lavine does hustle and use his athleticism. A lot of primary scoring options don't even care on that side.

Yeah there is nuance to everything. Lavine isn't bad when he's locked in and is defending his man on ball. The worst is his off ball awareness and losing his man. I think that did improve too. I think his poor defense stats are also due to mistakes on the offense. Poor shots/turnovers lead to easy transition opportunities on the defensive end which hurt his numbers