Lonzo Ball discussion thread

BigUps · Post #81 » by **BigUps** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:29 pm

If he can start hitting that stepback 3 its probably game over for defenders. While he doesn't finish at the rim well, if you bite on that stepback 3, he drives and dishes for an easy bucket to his teammate.

I'm all in favor of him to continue shooting and developing that move.

samwana · Post #82 » by **samwana** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:04 pm

Salo23 wrote:
logical_art wrote:Lonzo needs to spend the next few summers developing a post game. He needs to play the PG position like Payton and Mark Jackson so he can utilize his size. He doesn't have a good first step or enough quickness to create off the dribble, or a good enough handle to be super crafty and get to his spots.

He's 6'6". Go to the post, look over 6'2" guys, and make smart decisions. That should be his game.

Shaun Livingston after his knee injuries and later in his career off the bench with those Warriors teams developed into a dangerous mid-range, low-post guy who feasted on smaller guards. I don’t see why Lonzo couldn’t work to emulate Livingston’s game inside the arc.

andre miller comes to mind too

RealGM mobile app

Post #83 » by **HomoSapien** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:46 pm

samwana wrote:
Salo23 wrote:
logical_art wrote:Lonzo needs to spend the next few summers developing a post game. He needs to play the PG position like Payton and Mark Jackson so he can utilize his size. He doesn't have a good first step or enough quickness to create off the dribble, or a good enough handle to be super crafty and get to his spots.

He's 6'6". Go to the post, look over 6'2" guys, and make smart decisions. That should be his game.

Shaun Livingston after his knee injuries and later in his career off the bench with those Warriors teams developed into a dangerous mid-range, low-post guy who feasted on smaller guards. I don’t see why Lonzo couldn’t work to emulate Livingston’s game inside the arc.
andre miller comes to mind too

RealGM mobile app

Honestly, I wish we could use Scottie to teach him a few tricks.

Post #84 » by **coldfish** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:07 pm

coldfish wrote:If I had the ability to give Lonzo advice, it would be to develop a mid to high post game. He is big enough that he could really screw over smaller PG's on him. I think he has the touch to develop those shots and when doubled, he could kill teams with his passing.

Think Andre Miller.

Watch on YouTube

BullChit · Post #85 » by **BullChit** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:46 am

Watch on YouTube

I really find myself feeling really happy for Lonzo... I wasn't really a fan of his until I heard he was on our radar and I started watching him a bit more and looking into his background and everything. I was shocked to see just how much of a fan base these Ball brothers have as a brand.

But I really feel like he has found his Basketball Heaven on this team and I really am happy for the kid. And really happy we have him on the team!

The Explorer · Post #86 » by **The Explorer** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:00 pm

coldfish wrote:
coldfish wrote:If I had the ability to give Lonzo advice, it would be to develop a mid to high post game. He is big enough that he could really screw over smaller PG's on him. I think he has the touch to develop those shots and when doubled, he could kill teams with his passing.

Think Andre Miller.

Watch on YouTube

Agreed. He is sort of a 90s style pg, and he would do well watching film of Cassell, Payton, Billups, Mark Jackson. It was always free cheese over smaller guys. Billups used abuse Gordon and Hinrich in the post back in the day.

sco · Post #87 » by **sco** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:24 pm

The Explorer wrote:
coldfish wrote:
coldfish wrote:If I had the ability to give Lonzo advice, it would be to develop a mid to high post game. He is big enough that he could really screw over smaller PG's on him. I think he has the touch to develop those shots and when doubled, he could kill teams with his passing.

Think Andre Miller.

Watch on YouTube

Agreed. He is sort of a 90s style pg, and he would do well watching film of Cassell, Payton, Billups, Mark Jackson. It was always free cheese over smaller guys. Billups used abuse Gordon and Hinrich in the post back in the day.

I disagree. Ball is a run and gun guy. Just because he's tall doesn't mean he is suited to be a back his man down and post-up sort of PG. The ball leaves his hand faster than just about any PG in the league. His mindset is more of a reluctant scorer.

I'm fine if he works on making open layups so teams can't adjust their schemes to allow him a free pass to the hoop and don't get punished.

Other than that, I think he should just avoid getting caught inside the arc.

gardenofsound · Post #88 » by **gardenofsound** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:47 pm

As it stands right now, he's a half-court 3/D player and a transition PG.

We could see Lonzo continue to grow over the course of this season. I don't see him ever becoming a midrange iso threat, but if he can become a threat to finish at the rim, he'll create more open shots for his teammates and really become the consummate half-court PG.

Post #89 » by **fleet** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:54 pm

if GM Lebron would have kept Ingram Ball Kuzma etc. hmm, who else was on that team I forget. Should have had no problem adding DDR. That’s a good team

Tetlak · Post #90 » by **Tetlak** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:08 pm

fleet wrote:if GM Lebron would have kept Ingram Ball Kuzma etc. hmm, who else was on that team I forget. Should have had no problem adding DDR. That’s a good team

Yeah...but they also don't win a title.

PaKii94 · Post #91 » by **PaKii94** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:27 pm

Ice Man wrote:
Bullflip wrote:\It is definitely clear that Lonzo Ball has worked hard on his jumper.

He has, but he also must have a good deal of innate shooting talent that was hidden behind bad mechanics. Because a lot of NBA guys who can't shoot well spend a whole lot of time trying to fix that problem, but rarely do they do so as successfully as Lonzo has been able to do.

He shot 40% with his broken shot in college. The talent was there

khufure · Post #92 » by **khufure** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:56 pm

I love that you guys think his defense or his 3pt shooting is his biggest strength. Did you not see him on the Lakers year 1? He completely changed his shooting from a glaring hitched weakness to one of his strengths. His shooting form is fantastic now. Ball's biggest strength is his work ethic. He's definitely got a very strong chance of being an all-star in the next 2-3 years. For me the question is will it take 2 or will it take 3 off-seasons?

We struck gold this off-season, starting with the GM.

GoBlue72391 · Post #93 » by **GoBlue72391** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:32 pm

khufure wrote:I love that you guys think his defense or his 3pt shooting is his biggest strength. Did you not see him on the Lakers year 1? He completely changed his shooting from a glaring hitched weakness to one of his strengths. His shooting form is fantastic now. Ball's biggest strength is his work ethic. He's definitely got a very strong chance of being an all-star in the next 2-3 years. For me the question is will it take 2 or will it take 3 off-seasons?

We struck gold this off-season, starting with the GM.

He'll never be an all-star as a 3&D transition PG.

If he improves his driving and finishing then he could eventually become an all-star, because at that point he would be capable of scoring in the halfcourt beyond just catch and shoot 3s and that would simultaneously improve his halfcourt playmaking and P&R play as the defense would be forced to account for him rather than keying in on his teammates. Alternatively, he could add a Shaun Livingston-like post game.

I don't see either of those things as particularly likely though, as he looks incredibly uncomfortable driving and finishing at the rim, and post play is tough for bigs to develop, let alone guards. But who knows, he does have a strong work ethic as evidenced by the improvements to his jumpshot. Either way, even if this is the best he'll ever be, that's still significantly better than the PG play we've had over the past several years.

Post #94 » by **fleet** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:23 pm

Read on Twitter

bearadonisdna · Post #95 » by **bearadonisdna** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:00 am

In espn leagues Lonzo is ranked 7th in position rankings.
That’s pretty ideal despite traditional stats being kinda in between .

You tell me that during the off-season and I’m looking for a Lonzo ball jersey t or something.

Of course he gets his production from defense , 3’s, and scattered stat accumulation which is why he is ranked high despite not having elite stats .

Right now he is low key part of a big 3.
1 thing his usage is almost matching his career low .
Sometimes it seems he is inconsistent but to no fault of his own . We have to remember a lot of his value comes from having the ball is in hands .

Very happy with this right now . And it can become better .

bearadonisdna · Post #96 » by **bearadonisdna** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:12 am

Looking at his shooting splits he seems to be an at the rim and 3 point shooting pointguard .

His 3 point shooting is elite but I noticed he can work on his lay up %.

It’s 48% efg. That’s a number he can can get up .he is with a new team and sometimes there’s a settling period . Even recently his finishing seemed to have gotten incrementally better already .

sco · Post #97 » by **sco** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:41 pm

I was happy to see him making a couple of layups, but he needs to learn the Jimmy Butler move where he slows down on fast breaks to throw off defenders and draw contact at the rim...if he can't make lay-ups, at least he'll get more foul shots.

The 6ft Hurdle · Post #98 » by **The 6ft Hurdle** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:41 pm

I've started seeing him penetrate to the hoop with some serious closing speed beginning with the game against the Lakers. Saw him do that as we were losing that lead in Portland.

He really only makes moves that he really believes he can make.

That video of him from the Lakers above describing his need for 'permission' seems to be the main problem. "Permission."

Now I guess we just need to see him post up?

Post #99 » by **fleet** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:04 pm

The 6ft Hurdle wrote:I've started seeing him penetrate to the hoop with some serious closing speed beginning with the game against the Lakers. Saw him do that as we were losing that lead in Portland.

He really only makes moves that he really believes he can make.

That video of him from the Lakers above describing his need for 'permission' seems to be the main problem. "Permission."

Now I guess we just need to see him post up?

Highlights can perhaps depict a desired narrative, but fwiw, he did *appear* to be playing with a lot of freedom in that game that we do know he wasn’t permitted to play with all the time. Especially under StanVan. But he is by nature a guy that dials himself back intentionally for others to get theirs.

Yeah, a post-up game would be the piece that makes him relatively complete sans typical half-court penetration. It would be unlikely to be added though imo if we have not seen him try to do it a ton already. He fixed his jumper, but he was always shooting jumpers to a certain extent.

Post #100 » by **Senor Chang** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:10 pm

The 6ft Hurdle wrote:I've started seeing him penetrate to the hoop with some serious closing speed beginning with the game against the Lakers. Saw him do that as we were losing that lead in Portland.

He really only makes moves that he really believes he can make.

That video of him from the Lakers above describing his need for 'permission' seems to be the main problem. "Permission."

Now I guess we just need to see him post up?

Lonzo has that same "constantly-improves-his-game" gene that zach has, i think. He keeps adding to his game. He was making drives to the basket in the Portland game that i hadn't seen from him yet this season up to that point. I believe he will be an all star once he puts it all together. Right now his lack of dribble penetration game prevents him from being the half-court passing savant that he is in the open court. Just needs to clean up his finishing around the basket as well as add a mid-range game. Two things i think he is fully capable of doing.