O'Connor: Bulls interested in Gobert and Mitchell Robinson

[MikeDC]

To me, what AK is doing is acquiring assets, whilst still attempting to be competitive - that's a difficult balance to do, and for the most part he has been doing very well, with the limited assets he has in his chess board.

We have become a playoff team, but we also have good players on relatively solid contracts, I don't think there is a single contract on the roster which is simple not movable at one point or another.

It's weird, in the NBA it seems like if you want to do this thing where you're "competitive but upgradeable" you actually need a couple filler contracts that the Bulls don't really have right now. This past year, if the Bulls wanted to trade for another expensive player, they'd have to give up too many rotational pieces to do it (or Zach or DeMar, which would kind of defeat the point). It's like, you have to overbuild to become a 45-50 win team so you can add that guy who will take you to the next level. The textbook example being the Raptors having enough pieces to win the title even after trading for Kawhi.

Its simply too early in the process the Bulls are at least one to two years away from that sort of deal .

The point is the Bulls have to be acquiring movable contracts in these next couple of years or they won't be able to execute that sort of deal at all. The overbuilding has to be now so the big move that's a couple years down the road can pay off.

[chitownsports4ever]

The general question is if the Bulls truly are planning on paying the tax frequently. If they are, the problems with Gobert's contract go down significantly.

Yep. At a minimum, in order for this to make sense, the Bulls have to be willing to pay tax for the next two seasons, until DeMar’s deal is over.

Looking at the numbers for next year

Demar $27,300,000
Gobert $37,631,520
Zach $36,000,000
Zo $19,534,884

$120, 466, 404

Projected nba salary cap

$122,000,000

AC $9,030,000
Pat $7,775,000
Ayo $1,563,518
Green $1,815,677
Marko $1,563,518
#18 $3,148,560

brings the total to $145,362,677

This is without knowing if Bradley picks up his player option( $2,036,318) Player or the Bulls pick up TBJ team option ($7,228,448)

Luxury tax is at $149,000,000

MLE is 10 million

[Dresden]

Vucevic is more valuable than Gobert and his absurd contract.

When you compare the two, I find it difficult to reason that Gobert is absurdly overpaid, but Vucevic is not. I think people underestimate just how big the gap in impact is between these two guys. It's why I'd jump for joy if we could 'unload' Vucevic for Gobert.

Consider their win shares last year. Gobert had 11, Vuc had 4.5. Here's the list of guys above and below each player in the NBA last year for that metric.

The list for Gobert looks like this:



Outside of Robert Williams, who's on a rookie contract, every single one of those players is on the maximum payscale they're allowed to be on. Rather than being on a horrific payscale, Goberts' seems commensurate with other players around the league who impact winning as much as he does.

A similar list for Vuc looks like this:



The notable players in Vuc's neighborhood are SGA and AD, but they both played significantly less games than Vuc. For the guys who played around 70 games and had non-rookie pay scales, here are their salaries for next year:

- Mason Plumlee: 8.5 million
- Luke Kennard: 13.7 million
- DiAngelo Russell: 31 million

Vuc will make 22 million. Of those three, only Russell makes more, but I'm pretty sure it's not viewed as a good contract around the league. However, no one in Gobert's realm is considered overpaid.

It's also worthwhile to consider just how different these neighborhoods of players are. In terms of impact, Gobert breathes the same air as Jokic and Giannis. Vuc shares it with mid-round draft picks who are still on their rookie contracts.

Hell, last year Javale McGee had more win shares playing about half as many minutes as Vuc did.

It actually boggles my mind that people would have to think twice about swapping Vuc for Gobert. They are not on the same planet as NBA players.

There has to be a flaw in the WS metric if Robert Williams is coming out more valuable than Jayson Tatum, Chris Paul, and Jimmy Butler. He's like a bit player for the Celtics.

[TheSuzerain]

Gobert is actually better than Vuc offensively as well which is funny.

[boozapalooza]

The general question is if the Bulls truly are planning on paying the tax frequently. If they are, the problems with Gobert's contract go down significantly.

Yep. At a minimum, in order for this to make sense, the Bulls have to be willing to pay tax for the next two seasons, until DeMar’s deal is over.

Looking at the numbers for next year

Demar $27,300,000
Gobert $37,631,520
Zach $36,000,000
Zo $19,534,884

$120, 466, 404

Projected nba salary cap

$122,000,000

AC $9,030,000
Pat $7,775,000
Ayo $1,563,518
Green $1,815,677
Marko $1,563,518
#18 $3,148,560

brings the total to $145,362,677

This is without knowing if Bradley picks up his player option( $2,036,318) Player or the Bulls pick up TBJ team option ($7,228,448)

Luxury tax is at $149,000,000

MLE is 10 million

Good post. If we can stay under the tax this is possible. Was anti-Rudy at first but I honestly really like the look of this team. Keeps some continuity with most of the roster and Rudy would fit well. We need his defense. Giannis isn’t leaving our division any time soon and we need a rim protector to stop him. No one better defensively in that area than Rudy.

[Ballerkingn23]

I'm good on Def centric centers in today's nba. We can't score we need offense not more Defense. Vuc isn't the answer either but nor is Gobert/Mit

[Rose2Boozer]

Not sure what it would take to get Gobert, but I'd gladly part with Vucevic, Williams, and White.

[PrimzyBulls81]

Vucevic, Williams, White and TBJ for Gobert and Bogdanovic maybe.. Horrible albatross contract, dont want to overpay.. Or just go after Ayton, Robinson, Bamba, Whiteside, Drummond etc etc..

[BullChit]

I find myself becoming more and more of an AKME apologist and wanting to support the moves moves make.. Maybe I'm tired of debates and analysis I dunno but watching some highlights of Rudy I'd imagine we would have to get a player like Bogy for balance reasons or even find out how we can get Joe Ingles.

Ingles and Gobert seemed to have some good chemistry in the highlights I watch and he brings some passing and 3pt shooting that Rudy obviously doesn't.

[Wingy]

It's also worthwhile to consider just how different these neighborhoods of players are. In terms of impact, Gobert shares the same air as Jokic and Giannis. Vuc shares it with mid-round draft picks who are still on their rookie contracts.

Good overall post, but it loses some effect w/this statement because it comes off as pro-Rudy propaganda given those two standout out even amongst the list you posted...with Giannis about 43% higher and Jokic an insane 67% higher. They’re in their own air...Rudy isn’t sharing it.

Your overall point remains, I’m only highlighting nuance that can be important in holding up or hurting one’s argument.

[WindyCityBorn]

Not sure what it would take to get Gobert, but I'd gladly part with Vucevic, Williams, and White.

I wouldn’t. Unless his name is Embiid or Jokic paying a center $40 million is a waste.

[Andi Obst]

Can't hurt to keep an eye on the situation. Assuming he's as available as it seems, I don't think the offers will be as good as some people seem to expect. His contract is massive. He makes no sense for rebuilding/young teams. He makes no sense for any of the contenders. And then there's the possibility of Donovan Mitchell saying "trade him or trade me," which seems like a fairly reasonable scenario that the Jazz obviously would like to avoid.

Gobert is very good. He's far better than Vuc. I think our defensive ceiling would be pretty damn high with him. But there are some obvious questions that need to be answered before you get serious about trading for him.

[dougthonus]

Gobert is actually better than Vuc offensively as well which is funny.

Yeah, he's not more skilled offensively, but his skills / size / athleticism can be utilized more effectively than Vuc's well rounded abilities.

[Tetlak]

Gobert is actually better than Vuc offensively as well which is funny.

Yeah, he's not more skilled offensively, but his skills / size / athleticism can be utilized more effectively than Vuc's well rounded abilities.

Let's call it what it is.

Super low volume, better directly under basket. That's it.

Offense with Gobert in general would be a problem, because his contract would also likely prevent us from improving our actual offensive weakness, shooting. One of the posts on this page nicely summed it up, we'd essentially be at the lux line already.

Sure, it's not our money to care about, but do we believe the Reinsdorfs would pay?

[Michael Jackson]

Gobert is actually better than Vuc offensively as well which is funny.

Yeah, he's not more skilled offensively, but his skills / size / athleticism can be utilized more effectively than Vuc's well rounded abilities.

Agreed. Theoretically it isn’t true but since Vuc has the magical 3 pt **** that appeared for 2 years and then disappeared it is true. Gobert is way more limited but more efficient and if Vuc isn’t able to stretch a d out, he isn’t very useful imho.

[dougthonus]

Let's call it what it is.

Super low volume, better directly under basket. That's it.

Sure, but his size, length, athleticism combination make that a higher volume opportunity than what would be true of a lot of other players in the same position. You get highly efficient offense there and in decent volume still.

Offense with Gobert in general would be a problem, because his contract would also likely prevent us from improving our actual offensive weakness, shooting. One of the posts on this page nicely summed it up, we'd essentially be at the lux line already.

If the starting five is healthy in the playoffs, Lonzo, Pat, and Zach can all space the floor. Also worth noting that last year, Vuc wasn't really a threat anywhere on the floor, by the end of the season, no one was guarding him anywhere.

[Wingy]

Gobert is actually better than Vuc offensively as well which is funny.

Yeah, he's not more skilled offensively, but his skills / size / athleticism can be utilized more effectively than Vuc's well rounded abilities.

Let's call it what it is.

Super low volume, better directly under basket. That's it.

Offense with Gobert in general would be a problem, because his contract would also likely prevent us from improving our actual offensive weakness, shooting. One of the posts on this page nicely summed it up, we'd essentially be at the lux line already.

Sure, it's not our money to care about, but do we believe the Reinsdorfs would pay?

More. His massive, illegal screens are a huge benefit to your perimeter players.

[Chi town]

Don’t think Gobert is worth anymore than Vuc and White.

We all know Ainge will get more than that.

Don’t see this trade happening at all.

[FriedRise]

BD seems to prefer his center to be able to pass and make plays - so someone with a really good assist/turnover ratio. You saw it with Steven Adams, Wendell, Thad, and now Vooch.

I know that Snyder ran a different scheme in Utah, but Gobert averages more turnovers (1.6) than assists (1.3) for his career, so it's hard to see how he'd fit in Billy's system. We're probably gonna need a more dominant (and available) PG if we're gonna take away the point center plays completely. And this seems like a one-and-done move given our tradable assets.

I do agree with most though that Gobert's contract length and amount and his inability to shoot in 2022 make him much more attainable than he would be otherwise. Vooch is the worse defender and less efficient player, but I feel like he opens up your offense a lot more with his versatility because he can just do more with the ball. Gobert kinda locks you into just certain plays. Also, I dunno how I feel about not being to play your 40M player in the playoffs given how everyone plays fast and small, AND the fact that we do like to play small as a team also. It feels like the wrong type of player to target.

If we're getting a one-way defensive center, I'd rather go with a cheaper option like Poeltl than someone already on a long term max deal.

[sco]

Don’t think Gobert is worth anymore than Vuc and White.

We all know Ainge will get more than that.

Don’t see this trade happening at all.

IDK. Folks have made a compelling argument about his value reduction tied to his age combined with his contract...couple that with a lack of cap space around the league and not many teams looking for C's, AND the powder keg that Ainge is sitting on with team chemistry...he may be stuck taking the best offer, whatever it is.

The teams I could see competing here in terms of assets/interest are:

TOR - O.G. is a better asset than we have and a good fit with Mitchell...and they would really benefit from a real C. Although I question how he'd fit next to Siakam.

ATL - He'd be a great fit with TY, and they have a ton of better assets.

DET - Maybe a good swap with Grant, but timeline seems off.

IND - A Turner swap may make sense to both teams.

LAL - Dark horse, but if they want a last gasp with LBJ, AD would be a good swap.