dougthonus wrote:Stratmaster wrote:You speak as if Donovan only started coaching the Bulls after the trade deadline last season. I've listed all of my reasons about 50 times in here and you and I have had this discussion more than once. I have also asked anyone to name one thing Donovan has accomplished in his tenure with the Bulls or one thing he has been shown to excel at as a coach and the only answer I ever get is "the players seem to like him". Not his out of bounds plays. Not clock management. Certainly not his player pairings and rotations. Not his game planning (where he almost always gets out-classed). Not his in game adjustments. Certainly not his player development; I mean the ongoing hype of Coby is the only thing anyone can try to use to make that hat fit.
The team has outperformed modeled expectations in 4 of 5 years.
The team has consistently played hard and not dropped the rope (maybe the #1 thing your coach can do)
He's well liked by players and gets them to buy into their roles
Despite having some of the worst defensive personnel in the NBA, he's generally put out a solid defense
He completely refit our offense this year so isn't stuck in just one system
Seems like a good player development coach to me generally speaking, certainly not a below average one by any stretch. I don't think he's at any particular deficit in preparation or adjustments either, he has to work with what he has on the roster (which has not been a lot).
Most of those complaints you have aren't grounded in any particular fact except that they are words people say without any real basis of comparison and are usually based on the results of an individual event while ignoring that in the grand scheme of things his results are well above expectations during his tenure so people are only grading the negative events.
But again, as I said, fans are terrible at judging coaches. Of all sports, all teams, and all fanbases, the amount of times the fans think their head coach is "average" or "decent" is almost none. If the team is not on an upwards trend they more or less hate the coach.
And sure, we've had this discussion many times. You keep saying he sucks, and I will keep pointing out I disagree with that assessment and why. If you don't want to discuss it, then don't bring it up in a public discussion forum about the topic.
Modeled expectations? I already addressed that. Performing poorly for 5 years straight but "beating modeled expectations" of Vegas by an average of 3 games per season is what you keep wanting to hang your and Billy's hat on.
you say my opinions are just "things people say" and not facts. And then you give me "the team has consistently played hard". But is that really true? Was it true of any of the vets? Craig? Lavine? Vuc? How about Patrick F'ing Williams? How about Matas? Billy didn't think he played hartd enough. Is he playing hard?Other than Coby White flinging himself all over the place, which he would have done with any coach, give me an example of someone "playing hard". Harder than expected. That "doesn't sound grounded in any particular fact" except that it is "words people say about a particular event while ignoring the grand scheme. The grand scheme being 5 seasons of zero progress.
You are once again simply back to "the players like him and they play hard". Like borderline players in their first few seasons, fighting for roster and starting spots, don't always play hard.
Your ONLY other point was that he "retrofitted the offense". After 3 seasons of saying he was going to do it the Bulls finally played with some pace. What was this retrofit though? Basically don't hold the ball, shoot as fast as you can and try a bunch of 3's. Genius! And I don't care how well they did it that approach will never win a playoff series unless you have Curry and Thompson doing the shooting.
Then you give your opinion that he is a "good player development coach". We have had this discussion before and the only player I can recall you or anyone else bringing up who has "developed" is Coby White. And that simply isn't true or demonstrable by any "facts". Coby is the same player he always was. The only change is volume. Who has blossomed under Donovan? And your other fact is that "you don't see a particular deficit...blah blah".
Referring to what you think "people" ignore has nothing to do with my post. I don't ignore anything. I would venture that until February of this season I watched a higher percentage of games than you did, and I sure as hell have watched a lot more games than you over the years. I don't ignore the positives. There just haven't been many with Billy.
You say "fans" are bad judges of coaches. Yes, some fans, like you, definitely are. Other fans aren't.
As far as "If you don't want to discuss it, then don't bring it up in a public discussion forum about the topic...." sure make an asinine **** statement like that. It's what "people" and "fans" all do when they don't have a basis for their argument. I was simply saying that specifically YOU AND I have had this discussion many times before so it likely is useless with you as always because you seem to want to laud mediocrity and poor performance in a coach because he talks a good game and you like him; while tearing apart above average performances by above average players (see Vucevic).
