Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[johnnyvann840]

http://www.82games.com/1314/13CHI14.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1213/12CHI12.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1112/11CHI10.HTM

[DanTown8587]

Taj is a way better overall defender than Ibaka and they are pretty equal on O.

Taj is hardly a "way" better defender than Ibaka, just ask the Spurs. However, Ibaka is a way better rebounder and better passer than Taj.

Ibaka averages 1 APG total.. and his reb is not much different than Taj's.. where is this coming from?

I won't argue assists but the rebounds is fairly significant on the defensive side (+2.5 percent for Ibaka) and the difference in PER (16 for Taj to 19.7 for Ibaka) is fairly significant for two players who have roughly the same volume of shots.

[johnnyvann840]

Taj isn't a limiting defender (just like Jo isn't) in that he actually stops teams from running what they run..

I really hope you are kidding/ Now that is laughable

What sets do teams not run because Taj is on the floor? What PF doesn't get there's because Taj is on the floor? THAT's a valuable defender, someone who actually stops others from scoring or doing what they want. That's not Taj's game. His game (and same with Noah) is that for a big man, he doesn't really have a weakness. He can defend 1-1, P&R, 20 feet from the rim, help side, etc. But he's not some guy who stops other sets.

He ncertainly disrupts what teams are trying to do constantly..especially with Jo on the floor with him. they're beasts.. They F everything up for the other guys. deflecting balls, blcking shots, Getting in passing lanes, protecting the rim. Getting out on shooters with their length..

I'm not sure you can be much more of a limiting defender than Taj and Jo

[johnnyvann840]

Taj is hardly a "way" better defender than Ibaka, just ask the Spurs. However, Ibaka is a way better rebounder and better passer than Taj.

Ibaka averages 1 APG total.. and his reb is not much different than Taj's.. where is this coming from?

I won't argue assists but the rebounds is fairly significant on the defensive side (+2.5 percent for Ibaka) and the difference in PER (16 for Taj to 19.7 for Ibaka) is fairly significant for two players who have roughly the same volume of shots.

I'll go ahead and stipulate that Taj and Serge are pretty good comps to each other on both ends. Both my kind of player. they are close. Ibaka makes $12.5M and has high value.. so does Taj.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Taj is a way better overall defender than Ibaka and they are pretty equal on O.

Taj is hardly a "way" better defender than Ibaka, just ask the Spurs. However, Ibaka is a way better rebounder and better passer than Taj.

Honestly think Taj is a better individual and team defender. Ibaka will literally go for every shot block and compromise team defense. SAS exposed that went they inserted Diaw in the starting lineup. I am willing to bet you Taj does a better job on Diaw if he was inserted into that scenario. Ibaka is overrated as a defensive stopper IMO.

Per 36 Ibaka give you a grand total of 1 rebound more that Taj, and thats with Taj playing with rebound gobblers like Noah and Boozer. How many rebounds does Taj get if had to play with Perkins or Collison?

Offensively Ibaka has the clear edge I will give him that, even though he only a jump shooter and has absolutely no post game.

Ibaka's shot blocking is a game-changer though. There's a reason OKC beat San Antonio so many consecutive times. Then when Ibake got hurt the Spurs finally started beating OKC. And when Ibaka returned to that series he turned it around yet again despite playing hurt. Stats are one thing, impact is another. Ibaka is a game changing defender, completely changes the way a great team like San Antonio can run their offense.

[RedBulls23]

You're right. The stat is slightly positive but not close Taj impact level and Taj has been doing for three years now. Its no fluke his impact numbers on pt diff.

I'm just not an Al Jeff fan never have been.. except once I playd fantasy basketball a long time ago and he was on my team. I loved him then. Then I watched him play D.

This "impact" you speak of that Taj has over Jefferson is purely subjective..

Here are some impact full facts for you. Al Jefferson is a 20 and 10 top 5 center. He is an all-star and was 3rd team all-nba last year.

No one is taking Taj Gibson over Al Jefferson.

[dumbell78]

Taj is hardly a "way" better defender than Ibaka, just ask the Spurs. However, Ibaka is a way better rebounder and better passer than Taj.

Honestly think Taj is a better individual and team defender. Ibaka will literally go for every shot block and compromise team defense. SAS exposed that went they inserted Diaw in the starting lineup. I am willing to bet you Taj does a better job on Diaw if he was inserted into that scenario. Ibaka is overrated as a defensive stopper IMO.

Per 36 Ibaka give you a grand total of 1 rebound more that Taj, and thats with Taj playing with rebound gobblers like Noah and Boozer. How many rebounds does Taj get if had to play with Perkins or Collison?

Offensively Ibaka has the clear edge I will give him that, even though he only a jump shooter and has absolutely no post game.

Ibaka's shot blocking is a game-changer though. There's a reason OKC beat San Antonio so many consecutive times. Then when Ibake got hurt the Spurs finally started beating OKC. And when Ibaka returned to that series he turned it around yet again despite playing hurt. Stats are one thing, impact is another. Ibaka is a game changing defender, completely changes the way a great team like San Antonio can run their offense.

But if he's that much of a game changer how does Diaw all but negate all that awesomeness? Overrated a tad? Maybe once he actually has to defend someone 1v1 out on the perimeter he aint all that. Thats when I say Taj has him, Taj can all-round defend better and still maintain the team defense concept. Ibaka gets exposed too many times.

You cant say he's a better rebounder as if its 100% truth when the stats clearly shows its negligible. 1 rebound difference means they are on the same level at worst. Stats matter as a point of comparison.

[PMONSTER]

Sorry if already posted but.....

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... Kevin-Love

The New York Knicks recently offered the Minnesota Timberwolves a package of Amar'e Stoudemire, Tim Hardaway Jr. and Iman Shumpert for Kevin Love, according to a source.

The Timberwolves reportedly declined the offer.

The Knicks...... are....... awesome.....ly full of themselves to even ask.

[dumbell78]

I love getting to use this GIF!

Sorry if already posted but.....

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... Kevin-Love

The New York Knicks recently offered the Minnesota Timberwolves a package of Amar'e Stoudemire, Tim Hardaway Jr. and Iman Shumpert for Kevin Love, according to a source.

The Timberwolves reportedly declined the offer.

The Knicks...... are....... awesome.....ly full of themselves to even ask.

[johnnyvann840]

You're right. The stat is slightly positive but not close Taj impact level and Taj has been doing for three years now. Its no fluke his impact numbers on pt diff.

I'm just not an Al Jeff fan never have been.. except once I playd fantasy basketball a long time ago and he was on my team. I loved him then. Then I watched him play D.

This "impact" you speak of that Taj has over Jefferson is purely subjective..

Here are some impact full facts for you. Al Jefferson is a 20 and 10 top 5 center. He is an all-star and was 3rd team all-nba last year.

No one is taking Taj Gibson over Al Jefferson.

It depends what kind of basketball you want to play. Al dictates the offensive game you are going to play. He is slow and plodding, I personally would never pick him for my C. Mayhbe for a change of pace guy off the bench.. But I stand by my opinion that no team with Al as the starting C will ever win anything. Becasue he is like a governor on your game.

I just envision this super energetic Bulls team with Rose, Jimmy, McD, Taj and Jo, just suffocating teams and scoring in bunches in transition . I feel like Butler is going to have a huge comeback year after last year. Return to shooting like he did the season before and to start last season.

That's what i want to see on the floor.. just steamroll teams. I hope we get to see that lineup play. I know Dan and Red will poo poo this lineup... I just want to see it get a chance.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Honestly think Taj is a better individual and team defender. Ibaka will literally go for every shot block and compromise team defense. SAS exposed that went they inserted Diaw in the starting lineup. I am willing to bet you Taj does a better job on Diaw if he was inserted into that scenario. Ibaka is overrated as a defensive stopper IMO.

Per 36 Ibaka give you a grand total of 1 rebound more that Taj, and thats with Taj playing with rebound gobblers like Noah and Boozer. How many rebounds does Taj get if had to play with Perkins or Collison?

Offensively Ibaka has the clear edge I will give him that, even though he only a jump shooter and has absolutely no post game.

Ibaka's shot blocking is a game-changer though. There's a reason OKC beat San Antonio so many consecutive times. Then when Ibake got hurt the Spurs finally started beating OKC. And when Ibaka returned to that series he turned it around yet again despite playing hurt. Stats are one thing, impact is another. Ibaka is a game changing defender, completely changes the way a great team like San Antonio can run their offense.

But if he's that much of a game changer how does Diaw all but negate all that awesomeness? Overrated a tad? Maybe once he actually has to defend someone 1v1 out on the perimeter he aint all that. Thats when I say Taj has him, Taj can all-round defend better and still maintain the team defense concept. Ibaka gets exposed too many times.

You cant say he's a better rebounder as if its 100% truth when the stats clearly shows its negligible. 1 rebound difference means they are on the same level at worst. Stats matter as a point of comparison.

How much negating is Diaw really doing though? OKC has owned San Antonio the past 3 years with Ibaka playing, in spite of Diaw's presence. They beat them 7 straight, 12 out of 14. They may have beat them again in the playoffs this year with a healthy Ibaka, and even with Ibaka hurt were 2-2 in that series when he played.

And Serge has always been a better rebounder than Taj, regular season, post season, per 36, defensive boards. He's just a better rebounder. Serge averages 2.5 more rebounds per game in the playoffs than Taj.

[Polynice4Pippen]

You're right. The stat is slightly positive but not close Taj impact level and Taj has been doing for three years now. Its no fluke his impact numbers on pt diff.

I'm just not an Al Jeff fan never have been.. except once I playd fantasy basketball a long time ago and he was on my team. I loved him then. Then I watched him play D.

This "impact" you speak of that Taj has over Jefferson is purely subjective..

Here are some impact full facts for you. Al Jefferson is a 20 and 10 top 5 center. He is an all-star and was 3rd team all-nba last year.

No one is taking Taj Gibson over Al Jefferson.

It depends what kind of basketball you want to play. Al dictates the offensive game you are going to play. He is slow and plodding, I personally would never pick him for my C. Mayhbe for a change of pace guy off the bench.. But I stand by my opinion that no team with Al as the starting C will ever win anything. Becasue he is like a governor on your game.

I just envision this super energetic Bulls team with Rose, Jimmy, McD, Taj and Jo, just suffocating teams and scoring in bunches in transition . I feel like Butler is going to have a huge comeback year after last year. Return to shooting like he did the season before and to start last season.

That's what i want to see on the floor.. just steamroll teams. I hope we get to see that lineup play. I know Dan and Red will poo poo this lineup... I just want to see it get a chance.

Sure, that lineup will suffocate and steamroll a bunch of mediocre teams. But that lineup wouldn't be able to keep up with San Antonio, OKC or the Clippers in a 7 game series. We've seen that script before.

[johnnyvann840]

Taj is monster on the O glass, though. On D he gets pulled away from the basket a lot and winds up out on the perimeter guarding a shooter or running somebody off the 3 pt line. His dreb was down also playing more with Boozer who just waits for the reb and plays no D.. Taj is the one causing the D reb to happen

[Polynice4Pippen]

BTW-- is this a joke?

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... ll-Forward

Because I cannot stop laughing

Another thing about this; who's making these decisions? Lakers don't even officially have a coach yet.

[johnnyvann840]

[We've seen that script before.

No we have not... never. That has never had a chance to even play together.

[dumbell78]

Ibaka's shot blocking is a game-changer though. There's a reason OKC beat San Antonio so many consecutive times. Then when Ibake got hurt the Spurs finally started beating OKC. And when Ibaka returned to that series he turned it around yet again despite playing hurt. Stats are one thing, impact is another. Ibaka is a game changing defender, completely changes the way a great team like San Antonio can run their offense.

But if he's that much of a game changer how does Diaw all but negate all that awesomeness? Overrated a tad? Maybe once he actually has to defend someone 1v1 out on the perimeter he aint all that. Thats when I say Taj has him, Taj can all-round defend better and still maintain the team defense concept. Ibaka gets exposed too many times.

You cant say he's a better rebounder as if its 100% truth when the stats clearly shows its negligible. 1 rebound difference means they are on the same level at worst. Stats matter as a point of comparison.

How much negating is Diaw really doing though? OKC has owned San Antonio the past 3 years with Ibaka playing, in spite of Diaw's presence. They beat them 7 straight, 12 out of 14. They may have beat them again in the playoffs this year with a healthy Ibaka, and even with Ibaka hurt were 2-2 in that series when he played.

And Serge has always been a better rebounder than Taj, regular season, post season, per 36, defensive boards. He's just a better rebounder. Serge averages 2.5 more rebounds per game in the playoffs than Taj.

Diaw sure owned him those last couple games, and the previous 14 he never started.

The rebounding like I said is right about even, and playoffs Serge has played in 71 games to Taj's 44, and nearly 10 minutes more per. The difference is really mute.

[Polynice4Pippen]

[We've seen that script before.

No we have not... never. That has never had a chance to even play together.

2011 was a better version of that. 2011 Derrick>>>2014 Derrick. Deng>>Butler. Korver>rookie McDermott. 2014 Noah>2011 Noah. 2014 Taj>2011 Taj. And we lost to the first championship caliber team we faced in 5 games and couldn't generate any offense in the 4th quarters or stop Miami's big guns.

[johnnyvann840]

BTW-- is this a joke?

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... ll-Forward

Because I cannot stop laughing

Another thing about this; who's making these decisions? Lakers don't even officially have a coach yet.

Lakers Pencil In Carlos Boozer As Starting Small Forward

Carlos Boozer was introduced by the Los Angeles Lakers on Friday.

The Lakers were not optimistic about landing Boozer during the waiver claim process but did so with a $3.25 million bid.

Boozer heard the news from his agent.

"I was ecstatic and I was jumping up and down," Boozer said. "I went back out there and got two more hours in."

Boozer is penciled in as the Lakers' starting small forward, although he has played power forward throughout his 12-year NBA career.

Boozer said he believes he could play up to seven more seasons.
Via Mike Bresnahan/Los Angeles Times

I mean... are we getting trolled here? This is like an Onion article for Bulls fans.

[Polynice4Pippen]

But if he's that much of a game changer how does Diaw all but negate all that awesomeness? Overrated a tad? Maybe once he actually has to defend someone 1v1 out on the perimeter he aint all that. Thats when I say Taj has him, Taj can all-round defend better and still maintain the team defense concept. Ibaka gets exposed too many times.

You cant say he's a better rebounder as if its 100% truth when the stats clearly shows its negligible. 1 rebound difference means they are on the same level at worst. Stats matter as a point of comparison.

How much negating is Diaw really doing though? OKC has owned San Antonio the past 3 years with Ibaka playing, in spite of Diaw's presence. They beat them 7 straight, 12 out of 14. They may have beat them again in the playoffs this year with a healthy Ibaka, and even with Ibaka hurt were 2-2 in that series when he played.

And Serge has always been a better rebounder than Taj, regular season, post season, per 36, defensive boards. He's just a better rebounder. Serge averages 2.5 more rebounds per game in the playoffs than Taj.

Diaw sure owned him those last couple games, and the previous 14 he never started.

The rebounding like I said is right about even, and playoffs Serge has played in 71 games to Taj's 44, and nearly 10 minutes more per. The difference is really mute.

Come on now, Ibaka was playing on one leg those last couple games of the San Antonio series. He was supposed to be out for the season.

And sorry but I can't give you the rebounding argument. Serge is statistically a better rebounder than Taj any way you look at it. Taj is a better man defender though, I'll admit that.

[johnnyvann840]

[We've seen that script before.

No we have not... never. That has never had a chance to even play together.

2011 was a better version of that. 2011 Derrick>>>2014 Derrick. Deng>>Butler. Korver>rookie McDermott. 2014 Noah>2011 Noah. 2014 Taj>2011 Taj. And we lost to the first championship caliber team we faced in 5 games and couldn't generate any offense in the 4th quarters or stop Miami's big guns.

That is not how you look at it though.. Look at the team as a whole. Including Gasol, and Mirotic, and MDJ, and Snell. Who, I also have much more faith in now for some reason. Not just summer league. I'm assuming Rose is great.. becasue if we don't none of it matter anyway. The experience of Taj and Jo and Jimmy now.. I like the make up . I like the motors on these guys and I'm betting big that McD is the real deal. He's much more than Korver.