2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th!

[Chi town]

It's like some people forget all about an aspect called, "development".

Too many lazy analyst today.

Anybody can look at what a player has done and scrutinize stats and games played. It's so much deeper. These kids show signs of future life if you can cut through the noise of the confident pessimistic statisticians.

One of the reasons I’m high on Deni. He has a lot to develop, has shown signs of growth, and seems committed to putting in the work. He also has the IQ and vision and quick reads that can’t be taught. Him grabbing the board and running w Coby could be really fun to watch.

[Chi town]

Beal isn't getting moved til at the earliest 2021 off season

Disagree. Wiz are going nowhere. Sell high. Wall is a sunk cost. Start over w Rui, #2, #9, MIN 2021 1st

[No-Man]

Beal isn't getting moved til at the earliest 2021 off season

Disagree. Wiz are going nowhere. Sell high. Wall is a sunk cost. Start over w Rui, #2, #9, MIN 2021 1st

They should move him, I would agree with that but if you have followed the NBA lately you know that it ain't happening

[MrSparkle]

No way GS takes Wiseman. They are way to smart to waste a top pick on a big that hasn’t proven anything.

He's a good fit with the talent they have. He can come in and contribute right away crashing the glass and running the floor. Overall I would trust in GS's play development.

Live here in SF and read all the local sports stuff.

Bob Meyers has made it clear their window is now and they want to trade the pick. I think their floor is Wiggins, 2nd pick, MIN 2021 pick for Beal.

I agree that GS skips Wiseman (and LaMelo) and trades that #2, but WAS skips that offer. Wiggins is a negative value contract, and that MIN pick is top-3 protected. Beal is too young to sell low to the ex-champs like that.

I think if Lakers flame out in the 2nd rd or get dominated by LAC in the WCFs, and AD suggests he wants out, then a Wiggins/#2/MIN s&t might work. It’s a fair way to salvage what was lost (Ingram and the future 1sts).

[sco]

He's a good fit with the talent they have. He can come in and contribute right away crashing the glass and running the floor. Overall I would trust in GS's play development.

Live here in SF and read all the local sports stuff.

Bob Meyers has made it clear their window is now and they want to trade the pick. I think their floor is Wiggins, 2nd pick, MIN 2021 pick for Beal.

I agree that GS skips Wiseman (and LaMelo) and trades that #2, but WAS skips that offer. Wiggins is a negative value contract, and that MIN pick is top-3 protected. Beal is too young to sell low to the ex-champs like that.

I think if Lakers flame out in the 2nd rd or get dominated by LAC in the WCFs, and AD suggests he wants out, then a Wiggins/#2/MIN s&t might work. It’s a fair way to salvage what was lost (Ingram and the future 1sts).

IMO we should be trading down or out, not up.

I would love to see what a package of #4, Lauri and Otto can net us?

[MrSparkle]

Live here in SF and read all the local sports stuff.

Bob Meyers has made it clear their window is now and they want to trade the pick. I think their floor is Wiggins, 2nd pick, MIN 2021 pick for Beal.

I agree that GS skips Wiseman (and LaMelo) and trades that #2, but WAS skips that offer. Wiggins is a negative value contract, and that MIN pick is top-3 protected. Beal is too young to sell low to the ex-champs like that.

I think if Lakers flame out in the 2nd rd or get dominated by LAC in the WCFs, and AD suggests he wants out, then a Wiggins/#2/MIN s&t might work. It’s a fair way to salvage what was lost (Ingram and the future 1sts).

IMO we should be trading down or out, not up.

I would love to see what a package of #4, Lauri and Otto can net us?

Well, the 5 best players under-30 are totally unavailable for trade:

Kawhi
Giannis
Luka
Davis (though he will be a UFA, long-shot S&T target)
Tatum

The other 5 best players over-30 with just a few (prime) years left in the tank are totally unavailable:

Harden
Durant
Curry
Lillard
Jimmy

More young stars who are pretty much totally unavailable:

Mitchell
Trae
Morant
Booker
Zion
KAT
Jokic

So... that leaves Embiid or Simmons (farm), Beal (perhaps Zach, WCJ), Vuc... or old stars on the decline (Paul, Westbrook, not even worth mentioning Lebron and George who are not getting traded by LAL/LAC).

Otto, Lauri, Sato, Thad, #4, 21 FRP for Embiid, Horford, #21

Zach, WCJ, Gafford for Beal

Coby, Beal & Embiid build

[WindyCityBorn]

I actually wish we hadn’t got the 4th pick, because it forces us to get one of the guys that are the supposed top 5 talent. If I was the Bulls, I would trade down and draft Nesmith. I have a feeling he will be the best player from this draft. A sniper is what he is and who has a potential to be like Klay Thompson.

Hell no. There is no downside to moving up. Our GM is competent.

[WindyCityBorn]

I agree that GS skips Wiseman (and LaMelo) and trades that #2, but WAS skips that offer. Wiggins is a negative value contract, and that MIN pick is top-3 protected. Beal is too young to sell low to the ex-champs like that.

I think if Lakers flame out in the 2nd rd or get dominated by LAC in the WCFs, and AD suggests he wants out, then a Wiggins/#2/MIN s&t might work. It’s a fair way to salvage what was lost (Ingram and the future 1sts).

IMO we should be trading down or out, not up.

I would love to see what a package of #4, Lauri and Otto can net us?

Well, the 5 best players under-30 are totally unavailable for trade:

Kawhi
Giannis
Luka
Davis (though he will be a UFA, long-shot S&T target)
Tatum

The other 5 best players over-30 with just a few (prime) years left in the tank are totally unavailable:

Harden
Durant
Curry
Lillard
Jimmy

More young stars who are pretty much totally unavailable:

Mitchell
Trae
Morant
Booker
Zion
KAT
Jokic

So... that leaves Embiid or Simmons (farm), Beal (perhaps Zach, WCJ), Vuc... or old stars on the decline (Paul, Westbrook, not even worth mentioning Lebron and George who are not getting traded by LAL/LAC).

Otto, Lauri, Sato, Thad, #4, 21 FRP for Embiid, Horford, #21

Zach, WCJ, Gafford for Beal

Coby, Beal & Embiid build

Beal isn't winning at Washington so why would we giveup Zach and another major piece for a moderate at best upgrade? Booker can't win either. Isn't that what people drag LaVine for? Mitchell is overrated. He will never be elite.

[HomoSapien]

Someone talk to me about Obi Toppin. Why has everyone written him off? From what I can see (and I'm just going off of highlights), he's probably the most athletic player in the draft. Straight up elite-level big man athleticism like a young Kenyon Martin or Antonio McDyess. It seems like he's elite at running the floor and also can shoot the ball. His shooting percentages are just off the charts. The guy makes 63% of his shots and 40% of his threes on solid volume. It's clear his rebounding needs work. He's not an elite shot-blocker, but a good one. He also generates steals.

Is he like an Eddy Curry-level defender or something? Is his motor so bad that we don't think he can develop into a better defender? I'm having a little trouble understanding why he has been dismissed by almost everyone on the board.

[R3AL1TY]

Someone talk to me about Obi Toppin. Why has everyone written him off? From what I can see (and I'm just going off of highlights), he's probably the most athletic player in the draft. Straight up elite-level big man athleticism like a young Kenyon Martin or Antonio McDyess. It seems like he's elite at running the floor and also can shoot the ball. His shooting percentages are just off the charts. The guy makes 63% of his shots and 40% of his threes on solid volume. It's clear his rebounding needs work. He's not an elite shot-blocker, but a good one. He also generates steals.

Is he like an Eddy Curry-level defender or something? Is his motor so bad that we don't think he can develop into a better defender? I'm having a little trouble understanding why he has been dismissed by almost everyone on the board.

Folks are scared of his poor defense, but the NBA these days isn't about defense

[PlayerUp]

Someone talk to me about Obi Toppin. Why has everyone written him off? From what I can see (and I'm just going off of highlights), he's probably the most athletic player in the draft. Straight up elite-level big man athleticism like a young Kenyon Martin or Antonio McDyess. It seems like he's elite at running the floor and also can shoot the ball. His shooting percentages are just off the charts. The guy makes 63% of his shots and 40% of his threes on solid volume. It's clear his rebounding needs work. He's not an elite shot-blocker, but a good one. He also generates steals.

Is he like an Eddy Curry-level defender or something? Is his motor so bad that we don't think he can develop into a better defender? I'm having a little trouble understanding why he has been dismissed by almost everyone on the board.

22.5 years old
Bad conference

Some successful predraft workouts and things could change quickly here.

[Chi town]

I don’t know how pre draft workouts in an empty gym without any other competing is going to help anyone.

AK has already said GMs overvalue combine workouts and undervalue game film.

[MrSparkle]

IMO we should be trading down or out, not up.

I would love to see what a package of #4, Lauri and Otto can net us?

Well, the 5 best players under-30 are totally unavailable for trade:

Kawhi
Giannis
Luka
Davis (though he will be a UFA, long-shot S&T target)
Tatum

The other 5 best players over-30 with just a few (prime) years left in the tank are totally unavailable:

Harden
Durant
Curry
Lillard
Jimmy

More young stars who are pretty much totally unavailable:

Mitchell
Trae
Morant
Booker
Zion
KAT
Jokic

So... that leaves Embiid or Simmons (farm), Beal (perhaps Zach, WCJ), Vuc... or old stars on the decline (Paul, Westbrook, not even worth mentioning Lebron and George who are not getting traded by LAL/LAC).

Otto, Lauri, Sato, Thad, #4, 21 FRP for Embiid, Horford, #21

Zach, WCJ, Gafford for Beal

Coby, Beal & Embiid build

Beal isn't winning at Washington so why would we giveup Zach and another major piece for a moderate at best upgrade? Booker can't win either. Isn't that what people drag LaVine for? Mitchell is overrated. He will never be elite.

I dunno, I'm not necessarily in favor of paying the price for Beal, was just listing a trade idea.

Although IMO I'd trade Zach with WCJ for Beal any day of the week. Beal is a better shooter, better off-the-ball, better creator/passer, higher IQ. Better across the board as far as I can tell. While Zach played with a mediocre Bulls team, Beal led a full-on G-League team to a slightly better record. I think Zach/#4 for Beal/#9 would be more realistic.

[Jcool0]

Someone talk to me about Obi Toppin. Why has everyone written him off? From what I can see (and I'm just going off of highlights), he's probably the most athletic player in the draft. Straight up elite-level big man athleticism like a young Kenyon Martin or Antonio McDyess. It seems like he's elite at running the floor and also can shoot the ball. His shooting percentages are just off the charts. The guy makes 63% of his shots and 40% of his threes on solid volume. It's clear his rebounding needs work. He's not an elite shot-blocker, but a good one. He also generates steals.

Is he like an Eddy Curry-level defender or something? Is his motor so bad that we don't think he can develop into a better defender? I'm having a little trouble understanding why he has been dismissed by almost everyone on the board.

- He will be 23 next year.

- He tried to come out last year, didn't seem to impress anyone and opted out of the draft. So he really just has one year of elite production

- Doesn't rebound well or play defense.

[Andi Obst]

Folks are scared of his poor defense, but the NBA these days isn't about defense

Are there actually people who believe that?

Like yeah, it's just completely coincidental that all serious contenders have a top 5 defense right now.

[PlayerUp]

my hopes for draft night.

1. create a package centered on our 4th and lauri and possibly even a protected pick for next season to golden state for the 2nd pick.

Really bad idea.

Reality is Lauri has more upside than likely any of these top 3 picks. Then you're essentially trading him away with the #4 to move up 2 spots for a guy in this draft where the difference in terms of upside from #2 to #4 is minimal.

You only move Lauri if it appears we're going to lose him in free agency. If not, then we should be working to fix him under this new management, not sell low.

[Clint Eastwood]

I would trade lauri and some other lesser asset for another top 5 pick in this draft. Otherwise I’d rather roll the dice that Jimbo the clown was the cause for his stunted growth. He showed too much skill earlier in career for us to give up on him unless we are getting another high pick. I’m not trading him for a middling pick.

[Jvaughn]

Someone talk to me about Obi Toppin. Why has everyone written him off? From what I can see (and I'm just going off of highlights), he's probably the most athletic player in the draft. Straight up elite-level big man athleticism like a young Kenyon Martin or Antonio McDyess. It seems like he's elite at running the floor and also can shoot the ball. His shooting percentages are just off the charts. The guy makes 63% of his shots and 40% of his threes on solid volume. It's clear his rebounding needs work. He's not an elite shot-blocker, but a good one. He also generates steals.

Is he like an Eddy Curry-level defender or something? Is his motor so bad that we don't think he can develop into a better defender? I'm having a little trouble understanding why he has been dismissed by almost everyone on the board.

While the positives you mentioned are accurate (shooting potential, athletic, good runner) his negatives are glaring. He's pretty old, terrible defender, bad rebounder, prone to laziness. I'm also not completely sold on his shooting as his success is based on a small sample size (less than 3PA per game). I know you shouldn't draft for fit, but I don't really think it's worth wasting a top 5 pick on someone who isn't really projected to be any better than our current young starting PF.

[PlayerUp]

I would trade lauri and some other lesser asset for another top 5 pick in this draft.

Keyword "another". Yes Lauri is worth a lottery pick in this draft. If you can get one, consider it but trading him to move up say 2 spots is ridiculous. We need to focus on fixing Wendell and Lauri instead of selling low.

[WindyCityBorn]

Well, the 5 best players under-30 are totally unavailable for trade:

Kawhi
Giannis
Luka
Davis (though he will be a UFA, long-shot S&T target)
Tatum

The other 5 best players over-30 with just a few (prime) years left in the tank are totally unavailable:

Harden
Durant
Curry
Lillard
Jimmy

More young stars who are pretty much totally unavailable:

Mitchell
Trae
Morant
Booker
Zion
KAT
Jokic

So... that leaves Embiid or Simmons (farm), Beal (perhaps Zach, WCJ), Vuc... or old stars on the decline (Paul, Westbrook, not even worth mentioning Lebron and George who are not getting traded by LAL/LAC).

Otto, Lauri, Sato, Thad, #4, 21 FRP for Embiid, Horford, #21

Zach, WCJ, Gafford for Beal

Coby, Beal & Embiid build

Beal isn't winning at Washington so why would we giveup Zach and another major piece for a moderate at best upgrade? Booker can't win either. Isn't that what people drag LaVine for? Mitchell is overrated. He will never be elite.

I dunno, I'm not necessarily in favor of paying the price for Beal, was just listing a trade idea.

Although IMO I'd trade Zach with WCJ for Beal any day of the week. Beal is a better shooter, better off-the-ball, better creator/passer, higher IQ. Better across the board as far as I can tell. While Zach played with a mediocre Bulls team, Beal led a full-on G-League team to a slightly better record. I think Zach/#4 for Beal/#9 would be more realistic.

One

Yeah and LaVine definitely had support with Otto, Carter and Lauri out or playing like ****. I would not do that trade either.