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2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

Moderators: HomoSapien, coldfish, Payt10, Ice Man, dougthonus, Michael Jackson, Tommy Udo 6 , kulaz3000, DASMACKDOWN, fleet, GimmeDat, RedBulls23, AshyLarrysDiaper

Who do you want?

Ball
27
16%
Wiseman
29
18%
Deni
41
25%
Hayes
31
19%
Obi
4
2%
Vassell
14
9%
Okoro
4
2%
Haliburton
7
4%
Onyeka
3
2%
Other
4
2%
 
Total votes: 164

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#801 » by gobullschi » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:11 pm

JohnnyTapwater wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
JohnnyTapwater wrote:
Good stuff --- really good kid.

Makes me think GS will pick him. :banghead:


I agree. Who falls to Chicago if they pick Deni?



Ball --- In which case, I think we should trade back w/ New York for no. 8 & no. 27

Then I would target these players at their draft positions ---

No. 8
Devin Vassell
Aaron Nesmith
Tyrese Haliburton

No. 27
Leandro Bolmaro
Desmond Bane
Grant Riller


I’m starting to think Ball will fall too, but a package that includes the 8th and 27th pick is an underwhelming return for the 4th pick (even in a weak draft class). I do like some of the guys listed, but it’s just not good enough value for me. I’d rather keep Ball than do that deal.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#802 » by Bulls Fan 23 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:49 pm

gobullschi wrote:
JohnnyTapwater wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
I agree. Who falls to Chicago if they pick Deni?



Ball --- In which case, I think we should trade back w/ New York for no. 8 & no. 27

Then I would target these players at their draft positions ---

No. 8
Devin Vassell
Aaron Nesmith
Tyrese Haliburton

No. 27
Leandro Bolmaro
Desmond Bane
Grant Riller


I’m starting to think Ball will fall too, but a package that includes the 8th and 27th pick is an underwhelming return for the 4th pick (even in a weak draft class). I do like some of the guys listed, but it’s just not good enough value for me. I’d rather keep Ball than do that deal.


If Ball is there at 4, I think Detroit and New York both would want him. Let's get a trade battle going. Whoever offers up a unprotected 1st round pick wins.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#803 » by JohnnyTapwater » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:41 pm

Read on Twitter


Sleep if you want to.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#804 » by JohnnyTapwater » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:52 pm

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#805 » by gobullschi » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:58 pm

JohnnyTapwater wrote:
Read on Twitter


Sleep if you want to.

He is definitely getting slept on. I don’t see him falling out of the top 10, but the earliest he goes is 6th or 7th.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#806 » by HINrichPolice » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:06 pm

Haven't been following the thread, but surprised to see so much support for Hayes.

Can someone please sell me on him?

I feel like Deni not only is like BPA at 4, but he could fit alongside our other young talent and grow with them.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#807 » by HomoSapien » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:12 pm

Just did a deep dive on RJ Hampton highlights. Wow he's intriguing. Reminds me a bit of Penny Hardaway. My only question is are he and Coby too redundant?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#808 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:22 pm

Pelicans got the #8 + #17 + #35 for the #4 last year.

No reason to trade the #4 for #8 + #27. We can do better.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#809 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:26 pm

RJ Hampton Australia Stats

Full Stats
8.8 PPG, 3.9 RPG, 40.7% FG, 29.5% 3PT

Last 8 Games
6.6 PPG, 31.1% FG, 15.8% 3PT

==================================================

LaMelo Ball Australia Stats

Full Stats
17 PPG, 7.6 RPG, 6.8 APG, 37.5% FG, 25% 3PT

Last 4 Games
24.3 PPG, 9 RPG, 9.3 APG, 42% FG, 32.4% 3PT

==================================================

LaMelo improved, RJ got worse. That's why his draft stock tanked. Bare in mind, it's been 10 months since these 2 last played. Things could have vastly changed by now. We simply don't know until predraft workouts.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#810 » by chicago paxsons » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:33 pm

I have deni as my pick at 4, but if he is taken, i have heard mostly support for hayes like in the poll. What i’m wondering is haliburton seems like a quality point guard prospect like hayes, so what sets them apart with so much more support for hayes when haliburton doesn’t seem to be a better or worse prospect. Why the significant difference in support between the 2? Both as point guard prospects are lower in mock drafts then ball, but i assume part of that is ball’s notoriety, so what sets hayes support apart from haliburton so markedly?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#811 » by drosereturn » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:52 pm

Bulls Fan 23 wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
JohnnyTapwater wrote:

Ball --- In which case, I think we should trade back w/ New York for no. 8 & no. 27

Then I would target these players at their draft positions ---

No. 8
Devin Vassell
Aaron Nesmith
Tyrese Haliburton

No. 27
Leandro Bolmaro
Desmond Bane
Grant Riller


I’m starting to think Ball will fall too, but a package that includes the 8th and 27th pick is an underwhelming return for the 4th pick (even in a weak draft class). I do like some of the guys listed, but it’s just not good enough value for me. I’d rather keep Ball than do that deal.


If Ball is there at 4, I think Detroit and New York both would want him. Let's get a trade battle going. Whoever offers up a unprotected 1st round pick wins.


If Ball falls you shut up and take him and run like a robbery. Make like 10 teams offer multiple un protected 21 picks like the Doncic one.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#812 » by JohnnyTapwater » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:57 pm

PlayerUp wrote:RJ Hampton Australia Stats

Full Stats
8.8 PPG, 3.9 RPG, 40.7% FG, 29.5% 3PT

Last 8 Games
6.6 PPG, 31.1% FG, 15.8% 3PT

==================================================

LaMelo Ball Australia Stats

Full Stats
17 PPG, 7.6 RPG, 6.8 APG, 37.5% FG, 25% 3PT

Last 4 Games
24.3 PPG, 9 RPG, 9.3 APG, 42% FG, 32.4% 3PT

==================================================

LaMelo improved, RJ got worse. That's why his draft stock tanked. Bare in mind, it's been 10 months since these 2 last played. Things could have vastly changed by now. We simply don't know until predraft workouts.



Oh things have changed for sure ---

I totally get why RJ isn't on anybodies radar --- I can't wait until work outs.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#813 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:22 pm

chicago paxsons wrote:I have deni as my pick at 4, but if he is taken, i have heard mostly support for hayes like in the poll. What i’m wondering is haliburton seems like a quality point guard prospect like hayes, so what sets them apart with so much more support for hayes when haliburton doesn’t seem to be a better or worse prospect. Why the significant difference in support between the 2? Both as point guard prospects are lower in mock drafts then ball, but i assume part of that is ball’s notoriety, so what sets hayes support apart from haliburton so markedly?


Main reason people have Hayes > Haliburton is:

- Higher ceiling
- Better scoring upside
- Nice footwork/creativity with his shot

If Hayes comes into predraft workouts and is nailing his shot, he's pretty much a lock for a Top 7 Pick in this draft. Hayes hasn't played in several months so his game could have vastly improved already.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#814 » by CjayC » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:33 pm

chicago paxsons wrote:I have deni as my pick at 4, but if he is taken, i have heard mostly support for hayes like in the poll. What i’m wondering is haliburton seems like a quality point guard prospect like hayes, so what sets them apart with so much more support for hayes when haliburton doesn’t seem to be a better or worse prospect. Why the significant difference in support between the 2? Both as point guard prospects are lower in mock drafts then ball, but i assume part of that is ball’s notoriety, so what sets hayes support apart from haliburton so markedly?


Shot making potential, P&R game, probably their physical builds as well. If Hayes reaches his ceiling he could be a very good, possible elite shot maker and creator off the dribble. Potential 3 level scorer if everything works out for him. Can't remember the stats off the top of my head, but Hayes was steeped in a heavy P&R game for his team as well, so he has the experience there.

Haliburton could be an elite Catch & Shoot shooter, but his shooting form doesn't portend to him being as effective on the bounce, so the ability to create for himself is a bit more in question. Weaker physical build makes switching him a bit harder, also things like finishing at the basket. Also remember reading he wasn't anything special out of the P&R(Don't quote me on that though).

With that said I see a lot more projection in the case of Hayes. With Haliburton you know you're getting at minimum a good C&S shooter, a good secondary or tertiary ball handler, and I think he's a bit slept on as a passer. With Hayes you need his shooting and his right hand(Dribbling, and passing) to take another step. In a draft like this though, under the global circumstances, and the position the Bulls are in, I don't think anyone would fault the Bulls on taking a swing on upside over what some may call a "safer" pick.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#815 » by heckinjohn » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:13 pm

I think we need to trade down. Besides Deni (who I think will go to GS), I'm not high on any of the remaining lottery picks.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#816 » by Jcool0 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:57 pm

PlayerUp wrote:RJ Hampton Australia Stats

Full Stats
8.8 PPG, 3.9 RPG, 40.7% FG, 29.5% 3PT

Last 8 Games
6.6 PPG, 31.1% FG, 15.8% 3PT

==================================================

LaMelo Ball Australia Stats

Full Stats
17 PPG, 7.6 RPG, 6.8 APG, 37.5% FG, 25% 3PT

Last 4 Games
24.3 PPG, 9 RPG, 9.3 APG, 42% FG, 32.4% 3PT

==================================================

LaMelo improved, RJ got worse. That's why his draft stock tanked. Bare in mind, it's been 10 months since these 2 last played. Things could have vastly changed by now. We simply don't know until predraft workouts.


Did LaMelo improve? Last game he scored 25 points on 28 shots including going 1-11 from 3 with 6 turnovers.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#817 » by leo921 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:40 am

If the draft board falls in this order, what is your next move

1-Edwards
2-Deni
3-Ball

I really dont like the Wiseman fit on this roster. I feel like Carter is going to explode with a really coach, can shoot/pass/block shots, think this year is going to be a Bam like breakout.

A lot of people like Hayes but im iffy on that but willing to give AK the benefit of the doubt.

I like Vassell a lot, you know day one he is going to be a star role player like Danny Green/ Mikal Bridges mold. With the focus on player development he might be able to hit his ceiling.

Other choice would be to trade and try for either an unprotected pick(I do 4 for knicks or pistons unprotected nexy year) or try to grab a 1st or 2nd option to keep building the team
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#818 » by Jvaughn » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:45 am

HINrichPolice wrote:Haven't been following the thread, but surprised to see so much support for Hayes.

Can someone please sell me on him?

I feel like Deni not only is like BPA at 4, but he could fit alongside our other young talent and grow with them.


Deni probably definitely has the edge on Hayes as far as BPA.

Hayes is arguably the best passer in the draft, and has a promising offensive package. Solid handle, advanced step back game, good shooting mechanics, decent athlete, solid defender and great size for the position.

Deni and Hayes are two players that should be able to make the offense easier for Coby and Zach, while also getting easier opportunities for Wendell and Lauri.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#819 » by Grodoboldo » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:23 am

chicago paxsons wrote:I have deni as my pick at 4, but if he is taken, i have heard mostly support for hayes like in the poll. What i’m wondering is haliburton seems like a quality point guard prospect like hayes, so what sets them apart with so much more support for hayes when haliburton doesn’t seem to be a better or worse prospect. Why the significant difference in support between the 2? Both as point guard prospects are lower in mock drafts then ball, but i assume part of that is ball’s notoriety, so what sets hayes support apart from haliburton so markedly?


There seems to be more evidence for Hayes being able to create his own shot against set defenses than Hali, which would make differentiate them as primary and secondary creators, respectively.
I do like Hali, though. If we traded back, he'd be one of my top targets. But at 4, I'm more prone to take a chance on a primary creator.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#820 » by Grodoboldo » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:26 am

HINrichPolice wrote:Haven't been following the thread, but surprised to see so much support for Hayes.

Can someone please sell me on him?

I feel like Deni not only is like BPA at 4, but he could fit alongside our other young talent and grow with them.



I made this post below in the Hayes thread.
That Patreon article goes pretty deep on his games' details,and it's open for everyone.

Grodoboldo wrote:Just listened to the newest Cash Considerations podcast this morning (it's on https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/jason-patt/cash-considerations-a-chicago-bulls-podcast/e/77575425 if you wanna check it out) with PD Web (he's @abovethebreak3 on Twitter) and they did a deeper analysis on Hayes' game.

The gist:
- Loudicrous if he falls out of the top4.
- Terrific creator out of the P&R as a primary ball handler.
- Thinks his pull-up shot is very translatable.
- Believes in his 3pt shot, thinks the C&S problem is fixable.
- More athletic than he looks.
- Pretty good defender.

He also has a very good article on his Patreon (link if you want to pay the guy his dues: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=24373441&fan_landing=true ) about Hayes.
Link:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4pWh6JnouEkE_cwfZRpNV40ncR-DHouWCWJuU6cQ70/edit?usp=drivesdk
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