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Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real

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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#801 » by Dresden » Wed Oct 6, 2021 3:08 pm

fleet wrote:
Dresden wrote:
fleet wrote:Was it Dalton’s 14 points in game one that makes you feel this way about Fields?

Small sample sizes aside, we already know what Dalton is. One of the worst QBs in football as we saw last season. At least the kid hasn’t proven he sucks yet. But who knows, maybe it will be 2015 all over again.


You're making my point. People have listed several "metrics" in Dalton's favor, and you just ignore them.

Your point is your opinion. It isn’t a fact yet you state it as such.

The best “metric” is the scoreboard. But let’s go with other stuff since you like.

fleet wrote: Last year, Dalton had weapons including Amari Cooper, CeeDee Lamb, Michael Gallup and Ezekiel Elliott. In nine starts with the Cowboys, Dalton managed just 20 total completions longer than 20 yards. That’s good for just about two per game, and ranks 32nd out of qualified starters last season.

Even Sam Darnold with the Jets, Joe Burrow in half a season, Nick Foles in limited starts with the Bears, and Gardner Minshew in less than a full season threw for more of such completions than Dalton.

Taking it a step further, Dalton’s passing attack saw an explosive play on just seven percent of passing plays in 2020. This was tied for second-to-last in all of football.

On Sunday against the Lions, Fields and the Bears’ offense saw an explosive passing play on 28 percent of their pass plays — good for first in the NFL, through Sunday night.

The Bears also ran for the most overall yards in a game (188) in almost three years (Week 14, 2018).


For anyone that tracks the modern NFL offense state, Andy is decidedly out of sync with the times. As well as his benefactor Nagy. Chunks and explosive plays are the **** that is being effective.

At some point, trends become reality. Is Andy is not doing better this year


Maybe you misunderstood what I'm saying then. There's no way to objectively say one player is better than another, when you are comparing a 10 yr veteran, past his prime, with an unproven rookie, who has only played in a few game. I clearly said this in an earlier post. This is Nagy's opinion, and perhaps the rest of the coaches who have any input on it. So that's how it is. You can disagree all you want to with his assessment. My point is that if he's seeing these guys every day in practice for about 4 months now, he probably knows more about the situation than you or I do. And I see no real harm in letting Dalton have another start or two. If he does well, terrific, maybe Nagy was right. If he does terrible, then you bring in Fields, and at least you've given Dalton his shot. It's not a life or death situation. Fields will take over sooner or later. If it's now, or a few games from now, it's not such a big deal. But many fans and media pundits are making it sound like it's doomsday if Fields doesn't start right away.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#802 » by Susan » Wed Oct 6, 2021 3:57 pm

mack2354 wrote:With Montgomery injured our run game is going to be terrible. If we had a good o-line I'd feel better about running with 2nd/3rd string backs but we don't so I expect us to rely on the passing game to be productive. My guess is the defense knows that as well so we will see a lot of blitz packages. Dalton is better equiped to handle this. I love the rookie as much as the next fan but I want a "W" first and foremost and I think a healthy Dalton puts us in the best position "this month" to make that happen.

The ceiling for the offense is very low with Dalton but the floor for how bad the offense can be is the lowest with Fields. I'd start a healthy Dalton until Cohen or Montgomery get back to prevent our team from totally collapsing and to prevent Fields from getting killed. Bring Fields back in a month.


Cohen is the 4th best RB on the roster when he gets back. Williams and Herbert are good enough to build an offense around if Lazor is calling the plays. Montgomery didn't have his emergence until Lazor started calling the plays.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#803 » by bad knees » Wed Oct 6, 2021 5:03 pm

Well, there you have it.

Read on Twitter
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#804 » by Kurt Heimlich » Wed Oct 6, 2021 5:17 pm

bad knees wrote:Well, there you have it.

Read on Twitter


It's the right move by most accounts (mine included) but it feels like another step of Nagy's opinion and input mattering less and less. Sandwiched between his ding dong boss Pace on one end who has more pull by default and now Lazor who's proving to be the more capable offensive play caller, you can start to understand why Nagy is showing signs of insecurity in his role.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#805 » by fleet » Wed Oct 6, 2021 5:20 pm

Something, or someone heavy landed on Nagy’s desk after that **** press conference yesterday
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#806 » by the ultimates » Wed Oct 6, 2021 5:30 pm

Kurt Heimlich wrote:
bad knees wrote:Well, there you have it.

Read on Twitter


It's the right move by most accounts (mine included) but it feels like another step of Nagy's opinion and input mattering less and less. Sandwiched between his ding dong boss Pace on one end who has more pull by default and now Lazor who's proving to be the more capable offensive play caller, you can start to understand why Nagy is showing signs of insecurity in his role.


The thing is Nagy's input has partially put the Bears in this situation. The offensive line has been a question mark for at least three seasons. Not one time did I hear any reports about Nagy wanting Pace to use draft capital or free agent money to bolster the line. Whenever it was talked about offensive improvements it was always skill positions. I need a pass-catching/inside zone running back, pass-catching tight-end, speed receiver, better quarterback.
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#807 » by Susan » Wed Oct 6, 2021 5:31 pm

Kurt Heimlich wrote:
bad knees wrote:Well, there you have it.

Read on Twitter


It's the right move by most accounts (mine included) but it feels like another step of Nagy's opinion and input mattering less and less. Sandwiched between his ding dong boss Pace on one end who has more pull by default and now Lazor who's proving to be the more capable offensive play caller, you can start to understand why Nagy is showing signs of insecurity in his role.


Pace just opened another window - if Nagy can win with Justin/get out of his own way with this kid, he's not going to lose his job.

The Raiders are worse than the Bengals, this is a winnable game and an exciting time.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#808 » by micromonkey » Wed Oct 6, 2021 5:38 pm

Now ESPN is reporting it as well
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32348650/matt-nagy-commits-justin-fields-chicago-bears-starting-qb-going-forward
Yeah Fields starting, and if Lazor now owns playcalling might mean Nagy's wings are being clipped.
People above him obviously said lets develop and start building playbook NOW--see what we got sooner than later.
Pace is looking like his job will be kept--he's clearly done more good this season and Nagy is the only one on thin ice.

Be a CEO head coach and manage the team / locker room.
Its a transition he needs to make--you are still involved but you have to trust others with a lot of the details and not panic even if mistakes are made.
I can see him feeling insecure but he needs to step into it and do the "bigger" role.

It's like going from hands on manager to C suite.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#809 » by ATRAIN53 » Wed Oct 6, 2021 5:55 pm

I believe there is an unwritten rule in football that you "don't lose your job to injury"

that is what is supposed to make you sacrifice your body for the good of the team.

We can all blame Jim Harbaugh for trampling all over that rule when he stuck with Kappernick after Alex Smith went down and was ready to return. We may forget about this stuff but players and agents don't and I believe this is why a coach who has a 49–22 record is no longer in the NFL and happy to be back at MI where he can do what he wants.

We signed Dalton months before Fields dropped to us.
Of course Fields is better and the future, everyone knows this.

but you can't just jettison Dalton like scrap because he got hurt playing - you have to handle this properly or the other players in that locker room will revolt. What happens if Fields gets hurt and we have to turn back to Dalton is a question that coaching staff has to answer......
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#810 » by nomorezorro » Wed Oct 6, 2021 6:02 pm

the ultimates wrote:The thing is Nagy's input has partially put the Bears in this situation. The offensive line has been a question mark for at least three seasons. Not one time did I hear any reports about Nagy wanting Pace to use draft capital or free agent money to bolster the line. Whenever it was talked about offensive improvements it was always skill positions. I need a pass-catching/inside zone running back, pass-catching tight-end, speed receiver, better quarterback.


why the hell would the coach have to tell the gm that acquiring and keeping competent linemen is a good idea lol

bears fans will literally find a way to blame nagy for anything. i think he should be fired and i still find myself reflexively compelled to defend him whenever i read online bears discourse
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#811 » by nomorezorro » Wed Oct 6, 2021 6:03 pm

bears fans: fields should be the starter!
nagy: fields is the starter
bears fans: someone else did that
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#812 » by nomorezorro » Wed Oct 6, 2021 6:05 pm

i think my favorite compulsion is when play-call tea-leaf readers are like "yeah, offense is humming, good thing nagy gave up playcalling duties!" and then when there are a few ineffective plays in a row they go "idk i think nagy might have started calling plays again in the second half..."

sorry for the venting but it really is a remarkable phenomenon. people hate that guy in a major way
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#813 » by Dresden » Wed Oct 6, 2021 6:11 pm

nomorezorro wrote:bears fans: fields should be the starter!
nagy: fields is the starter
bears fans: someone else did that


About sums it up.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#814 » by the ultimates » Wed Oct 6, 2021 6:12 pm

nomorezorro wrote:
the ultimates wrote:The thing is Nagy's input has partially put the Bears in this situation. The offensive line has been a question mark for at least three seasons. Not one time did I hear any reports about Nagy wanting Pace to use draft capital or free agent money to bolster the line. Whenever it was talked about offensive improvements it was always skill positions. I need a pass-catching/inside zone running back, pass-catching tight-end, speed receiver, better quarterback.


why the hell would the coach have to tell the gm that acquiring and keeping competent linemen is a good idea lol

bears fans will literally find a way to blame nagy for anything. i think he should be fired and i still find myself reflexively compelled to defend him whenever i read online bears discourse


For the same reasons he wanted upgrades or different players at the skill positions. Are you saying Nagy hasn't had any input on offensive personnel?
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#815 » by Dresden » Wed Oct 6, 2021 6:12 pm

bad knees wrote:Well, there you have it.

Read on Twitter



Well, that's that then. Let's see how the kid does.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#816 » by nomorezorro » Wed Oct 6, 2021 6:13 pm

no, i'm saying "assemble an offensive line" is an implicit part of the job of being an nfl gm, and nothing about a coach's personnel preferences should change that
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#817 » by nomorezorro » Wed Oct 6, 2021 6:16 pm

also it's so funny to act like nagy is being a picky prima donna fake offensive guru for wanting a "better quarterback" than the four years of dogs*** ryan pace assembled

"oh boo hoo baby needs something better than mitch trubisky or nick foles, no wonder we don't have a reliable offensive line!"
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#818 » by Susan » Wed Oct 6, 2021 6:43 pm

nomorezorro wrote:also it's so funny to act like nagy is being a picky prima donna fake offensive guru for wanting a "better quarterback" than the four years of dogs*** ryan pace assembled

"oh boo hoo baby needs something better than mitch trubisky or nick foles, no wonder we don't have a reliable offensive line!"


Ultimately - they're in a great spot because they collaborated and got Justin.

But they both bungled the following:
1. Pace drafting Mitch
2. Nagy didn't maximize Mitch after 2018
3. They collaborated and made a small bet on Foles - he's still a good backup to have
4. They collaborated on Dalton - who was going to get them both fired if they didn't get Justin
5. Nagy has been a little too focused on being the playcaller and has handled the transition a bit oddly

This all won't matter because Justin is going to be here for a dozen years and I could see Nagy being here for a good chunk of them because the Bears are going to win a lot of games because of Justin Fields. Good on Nagy for getting out of his own way, Lazor is a better OC for the Bears than he is and this enables him to be a better Head Coach.

Matt Nagy is capable of being a good HC, BIll Lazor is a capable OC and Justin Fields is a transcendent QB.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#819 » by MAQ » Wed Oct 6, 2021 7:02 pm

See Blue Sue
GYBE wrote:I don't think my behaviour changes at all when I'm drunk. But when I'm wasted, my girlfriend becomes a real klutz. She starts walking into doors and falling down stairs. Weird.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#820 » by nomorezorro » Wed Oct 6, 2021 7:03 pm

i don't really disagree that much with your concluding statement, but i feel like if fields is truly elite, you want to hunt for an elite coach rather than settling for a guy who can be elevated by proximity

i'll also admit, the past few weeks have made me increasingly skeptical of nagy's capability to take a step back and be a CEO head coach, even though i think he can be totally solid in that role if he embraced it. and maybe more importantly, i'm skeptical of the value of having nagy as a CEO coach (while inviting the risk of having your oc/dc poached) vs. the upside of finding and locking down a more skilled (preferably offensive) coach who's more naturally suited to the hc position
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.

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