Deng to GS PG.13 / PG.43 Bulls Say Otherwise

[U boj]

people who are saying JR is cheap for not wanting to go into the tax are being very short-sighted. this new CBA blows. we need to stay out of the lux tax until 2013 or 2014 now.

But for 2014? Why the hell do they need to avoid tax then? Rose will presumably be totally fine, or at least you have to plan that way.

2014 version of the Bulls will not be contenders with Rip and Boozer corpses and way weaker bench.

[League Circles]

Could anyone explain why didn't Dalambert get a better deal last season? With all the talk about people overpaying 7 footers and about Asik getting paid big time I'm shocked to see the numbers on his deal.

Umm, he got 7 mil a year at age 30. That's pretty good. Also, he's not ever been the defender that Omer is. A good shotblocker and rebounder, yes, but not nearly the low post defender, and much older. I think most people think the max offer Omer will receive would be like 5/5/8/8, and the likely offer will be like 5/5/6/7.

[DASMACKDOWN]

There is no way in hell, under the new CBA and at age 29, Luol Deng gets a deal equal to what he has now. It will be for less. "Far" less? Dunno.

Well, actually, there is one way in hell. He improves quite a bit. In which case it would be even that much more important to retain him.

So basically the writing is on the wall then. What scenarios have Deng coming back after 2 years if he doesnt take a severe paycut?

[Irregular]

If your assumptions for next season are correct, then I go back to my original plan of tanking full steam. Not some half-hearted tank but like really really tank and get a Top 3 pick next draft.

Suddenly a wasted year becomes the foundation for a championship core.

I am not for that either, but I agree with you. Lets not half ass this. If we are going to deliberatly burn two of Rose's precious postseason runs, lets not only burn them, but burn them to the **** ground.

Don't let Rose play next year, at all. Amnesty Boozer. Trade Deng, Taj and Asik for prospects.

Keep only Noah. If we are lucky, in three or four years we might end up being as good as we are right now.

The Current Model of the Bulls can't even beat the 76ers in the playoffs.

You would force Derrick to be the scorer again, and when has a PG won a title by himself?

[PJ Brown]

2014 version of the Bulls will not be contenders with Rip and Boozer corpses and way weaker bench.

The team may or may not be weaker based on several factors. There's a good chance neither Rip nor Boozer are on the team by then. It's highly unlikely that Rip is on for the third year.

[U boj]

- Luxury tax. OK, let's go with the "let's not pay it because next year is a waste" mantra. Korver, Watson and Brewer should all be cut then. Having Deng injured even helps more. You basically have a one year tank going on, much like the Spurs did when they got Duncan. Then in 2013/14 you have a fully healthy Rose, Deng, Boozer, Noah, Taj and Asik plus the Bulls picks, Mirotic and maybe the Charlotte pick. Depending on how things work out, that's a win now team.

Mirotić is not coming next summer, the Bulls would still have just one elite offensive player+weaker bench and the piece of trash in Boozer eating up $15 M of the capspace. That's not a contender.

[DanTown8587]

The Current Model of the Bulls can't even beat the 76ers in the playoffs.

You would force Derrick to be the scorer again, and when has a PG won a title by himself?

The Current Model that lost to the 76ers didn't have Derrick Rose so try again.

[Irregular]

If you want to Keep Boozer, Deng, Noah, and Rose you are going to have to dump Gibson, Asik, and most of the bench mob.

Bulls need to make a move in 2 years.

[Irregular]

The Current Model of the Bulls can't even beat the 76ers in the playoffs.

You would force Derrick to be the scorer again, and when has a PG won a title by himself?

The Current Model that lost to the 76ers didn't have Derrick Rose so try again.

It did have Rose and he got injured during those playoffs.

The same thing would happen again. Bulls need more players that can do more then hit a jump shot.

[boogydown]

I'm sure the Bulls have intentions to resign him after the huge mistake they made with Ben Gordon when he should have been dealt from the start.

[HINrichPolice]

I just want to say:

- +Duck on a bunch of things. One in particular is his comment about a rebuild based around a rookie. Most guys don't get to where they are going to be until their 3rd, maybe 4th year and only then do you find out if they guy was really worth it. You are burning a lot of Derrick's time.

I don't think that's true entirely. You might not get the most out of the player, but you'll know if the player would have been worth it pretty quickly. We knew what we had with Rose pretty much the first season -- it wasn't clear that he'd be THIS good THIS quickly, but we knew what he was. Same with Deng, Gordon, Tyrus (in a negative way). The only one that wasn't clear right away was Noah, who was on that trainwreck 2008 team.

I don't mean to speak for coldfish, but I don't think that is what he meant. He wasn't talking about "knowing what you have" i.e., being able to see that the guy can develop. He was talking about how long until you know if he was "worth it." I.e., how long until a rookie becomes better for the Bulls likelihood of success than a 28 - 31 year old Luol Deng.

There are two ways this can go:

(1) The pick ends up like most picks, and is worse than Deng. So unless something else huge breaks in the talent department, you've screwed the pooch.

(2) The pick is the rare exception that ends up better than a 28-31 year old Deng, but it takes at least 3 years for him to get that good. So while end up with a better players, you've made Derrick Rose play on a worse team for 3 precious years.

This is not a wise use of Deng as a trade asset. And its born of annual draft hysteria and an overly emotional fan response to a postseason failed by unjuries.

To play devil's advocate...

If you had to choose, when would you rather have max talent, Rose over the next 3 years or Rose during the 3 years afterwards? His real peak (especially now with his injury) will be in that 2nd 3 year stretch rather than the upcoming 3 year stretch. Sure, let's factor in Noah's age and maybe the real answer lies somewhere in between. But I think there's SOME merit in wanting to cash in some chips for (hopefully) equal talent to blossom a couple of years or so later than Deng's current peak.

[DuckIII]

There is no way in hell, under the new CBA and at age 29, Luol Deng gets a deal equal to what he has now. It will be for less. "Far" less? Dunno.

Well, actually, there is one way in hell. He improves quite a bit. In which case it would be even that much more important to retain him.

So basically the writing is on the wall then. What scenarios have Deng coming back after 2 years if he doesnt take a severe paycut?

Every scenario in which the FO pays him his market value? The notion that Deng is gone in 2 years is a speculative fan construct developed to justify these ridiculous trade proposals.

[Irregular]

Deng has hit his peak. To expect Deng to keep producing in 2 years with the amount of injuries he has had is nuts.

Draft night is only 3 days away.

[DASMACKDOWN]

The Current Model of the Bulls can't even beat the 76ers in the playoffs.

You would force Derrick to be the scorer again, and when has a PG won a title by himself?

The Current Model that lost to the 76ers didn't have Derrick Rose so try again.

Not to mention also missing Joakim Noah.

[The Bear Jew]

Taj also started 70 games his rookie season and got 27 mpg. Compared to Butler's 0 games started and 8.5 MPG. It's a completely different situation.

so he was even greener. so you think butler should basically never play? he should be a lifetime scrub?

you think we need to get a new starting SF because we shouldnt use butler?

I never said that Butler should never play and that he's a scrub, I said earlier that I'd be fine with him taking Brewer's role, but not Deng's. And Taj was not greener? He came in NBA-ready, not to say that Jimmy didn't, but he just spent a year primarily sitting on the bench, he shouldn't be thrusted into a starting role.

[Irregular]

The Current Model of the Bulls can't even beat the 76ers in the playoffs.

You would force Derrick to be the scorer again, and when has a PG won a title by himself?

The Current Model that lost to the 76ers didn't have Derrick Rose so try again.

Not to mention also missing Joakim Noah.

Who also went down in the same series.

Both of them played in the playoffs.


The Bulls are going to be without Rose and Deng for a portion of the season.

How are they going to score?

Jimmy Butler as starter?

Boozer better get back to 20/10 next year. They need him!

[U boj]

2014 version of the Bulls will not be contenders with Rip and Boozer corpses and way weaker bench.

The team may or may not be weaker based on several factors. There's a good chance neither Rip nor Boozer are on the team by then. It's highly unlikely that Rip is on for the third year.

The Bulls are not using the amnesty on Boozer with two years left on his deal.

Also, they don't have enough money to replace the bench guys. Without trading/amnestying Deng or Boozer now or next summer they will not be contenders with this group.

Boozer is staying so Deng would have to go. Trading him now gives you a better chance to compete in 2013/2014.

It's that simple.

[Irregular]

Bulls can keep Deng and lose their Depth or trade Deng and increase the depth on the team and get a FA in 2014.

[PistolP]

We have immediate starting positions to fill, but want to stay under the tax now, while also getting back a player who will have found his NBA groove by 2013-14. Let's just:

Trade Deng for Evans & 36
Trade for Dorrell Wright
Sign a PG with the MMLE
Draft Jeff Taylor

Rose / MMLE
Evans / Rip / #36
Wright / Taylor / Butler
Boozer / Taj
Noah / Asik

Boom, under the tax or pretty close

[PJ Brown]

The Bulls are not using the amnesty on Boozer with two years left on his deal.

Also, they don't have enough money to replace the bench guys. Without trading/amnestying Deng or Boozer now or next summer they will not be contenders.

Boozer is staying so Deng would have to go. Trading him now gives you a better chance to compete in 2013/2014.

It's that simple.

You might be right, but it's certainly not that simple. There's a much greater chance they'll amnesty Boozer the shorter his deal gets. If that's what's needed to avoid the tax, for example, they'll certainly consider it. You might be right about Boozer staying for the time being having something to do with Deng being shopped, but it's less certain that trading Deng now makes you better in '13-'14. That rookie would have to be pretty special to make you better.

Are guys like Watson and Brewer really that difficult to replace? They've served the team well, but vets, Butler and well-chosen rookies can probably fill in. You're also assuming they don't make any other moves to improve the team in the meantime.