Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real

[micromonkey]

also it's so funny to act like nagy is being a picky prima donna fake offensive guru for wanting a "better quarterback" than the four years of dogs*** ryan pace assembled

"oh boo hoo baby needs something better than mitch trubisky or nick foles, no wonder we don't have a reliable offensive line!"

Nagy is fake because he seems to be unable to play to the QBs strengths -be it Mitch, Foles or Fields.
McD had Orton and Tebow and made each one work and did not slavishly stick to the same plays.
Roman changed the playbook massively when he went from Flacco to Jackson
Nagy doesn't do anything but minor tweaks at best.
Nagy also gives up on the run for long stretches.
I think those to statements are pretty uncontroversial.
I don't think anyone is faulting Nagy for wanting a better QB--its more--work with what you got and maximize that--no matter what.
He seems stuck on trying to run the same thing, the same way regardless of who is in there.

We saw last week a completely different gameplan than what Nagy typically runs. Run heavy and deeper passing targets.

bears fans: fields should be the starter!
dalton: Goonie speech
Preseason Week 1
nagy: Dalton is the starter
bears fans: fields should be the starter!
Preseason Week 2
nagy: Dalton is the starter
bears fans: fields should be the starter!
Preseason Week 3
nagy: Dalton is the starter
bears fans: fields should be the starter!
Preseason Week 4
nagy: Dalton is the starter
bears fans: fields should be the starter!
Week 1
nagy: Dalton is the starter
bears fans: fields should be the starter!
Week 2
nagy: Dalton is the starter
bears fans: fields should be the starter!
Week 3 Lazor calls the plays
nagy: Dalton is the starter
bears fans: fields should be the starter!
Week 4
nagy: Fields is the starter
bears fans: someone else did that

About sums it up.

Fixed

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

I believe there is an unwritten rule in football that you "don't lose your job to injury"

that is what is supposed to make you sacrifice your body for the good of the team.

We can all blame Jim Harbaugh for trampling all over that rule when he stuck with Kappernick after Alex Smith went down and was ready to return. We may forget about this stuff but players and agents don't and I believe this is why a coach who has a 49–22 record is no longer in the NFL and happy to be back at MI where he can do what he wants.

We signed Dalton months before Fields dropped to us.
Of course Fields is better and the future, everyone knows this.

but you can't just jettison Dalton like scrap because he got hurt playing - you have to handle this properly or the other players in that locker room will revolt. What happens if Fields gets hurt and we have to turn back to Dalton is a question that coaching staff has to answer......

Depends on the situation and the Bears situation didn't fall into this category. Dalton knew his time here as a starter was going to be short. And its not like Dalton earned anything. He knew once Fields was drafted what his role would be. He was never a long term starter here even before Fields was drafted. And he's not getting jettisoned. He will serve as the backup and he knows his role. Fields is the focus right now and the future. Dalton is just a fill in, always has been since he signed here. And before you say he signed here to be the starter blah blah blah. Yes, until we found someone better. And we hopefully did.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Why is it so complicated to understand Nagy is bad at his job, Dalton is average at his job, and Fields is our only HOPE at this point?

This has all been pointed out here before the media pointed it out, its not just dumb fans being driven by the media.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

I think its pretty inflated self worth to think Nagy owes the fans anything. Or the media insight into his gameplans and strategies. The GOAT coach Belichick, doesn't give the media anything and listed Tom Brady on his injury report for over a decade, week after week. The media, of course, gets aggravated by this, and likes to respond by painting Nagy in a negative light. But who should give a **** that they have information on Wednesday on who is starting instead of Sunday? If Nagy thinks it gives his team a 0.5% change at improved odds to win, then that should be his focus.

He's still a **** coach, but complaining about this is finding something to complain about.

[fleet]

bears fans: fields should be the starter!
nagy: fields is the starter
bears fans: someone else did that

I don’t know how you can come to any other conclusion. Either he lied yesterday, or he lied today when he said Justin earned the job. Maybe he looked at some Detroit tape and saw the “whys”

The entire football world was dragging the guy. That caused him to fold, or the brass did. He probably can’t say what he said yesterday and do a 180 today out of sudden enlightenment. Can you explain it? Not sure it is any better if he doesn’t know which way he will go literally from day to day. Following a failure as a play caller, not so good.

[jnrjr79]

bears fans: fields should be the starter!
nagy: fields is the starter
bears fans: someone else did that

I don’t know how you can come to any other conclusion. Either he lied yesterday, or he lied today when he said Justin earned the job. Maybe he looked at some Detroit tape and saw the “whys”

The entire football world was dragging the guy. That caused him to fold, or the brass did. He probably can’t say what he said yesterday and do a 180 today out of sudden enlightenment. Can you explain it? Not sure it is any better if he doesn’t know which way he will go literally from day to day. Following a failure as a play caller, not so good.

One theory: On Monday, Nagy thought he'd have another week to start Fields due to the Dalton injury, and therefore he could wait to see how things go against the Raiders before making a decision as to when Fields would become the permanent starter. Then today they got news that Dalton was good to go, so he had to come out and say what he said.

Just a thought. I agree that the communication has been totally bungled, even if the outcome in terms of when Fields became the starter is good.

[Dresden]

Why is it so complicated to understand Nagy is bad at his job, Dalton is average at his job, and Fields is our only HOPE at this point?

This has all been pointed out here before the media pointed it out, its not just dumb fans being driven by the media.

Because it may not be true? Fields is our "only hope" for what exactly? Winning next weeks game? Winning more games this season? Winning games in 2022-2030? I would say the last proposition is true, the first two may not be.

[fleet]

bears fans: fields should be the starter!
nagy: fields is the starter
bears fans: someone else did that

I don’t know how you can come to any other conclusion. Either he lied yesterday, or he lied today when he said Justin earned the job. Maybe he looked at some Detroit tape and saw the “whys”

The entire football world was dragging the guy. That caused him to fold, or the brass did. He probably can’t say what he said yesterday and do a 180 today out of sudden enlightenment. Can you explain it? Not sure it is any better if he doesn’t know which way he will go literally from day to day. Following a failure as a play caller, not so good.

One theory: On Monday, Nagy thought he'd have another week to start Fields due to the Dalton injury, and therefore he could wait to see how things go against the Raiders before making a decision as to when Fields would become the permanent starter. Then today they got news that Dalton was good to go, so he had to come out and say what he said.

Just a thought. I agree that the communication has been totally bungled, even if the outcome in terms of when Fields became the starter is good.

Possible, but generous. IMO, he never intended to relent because Justin is not ready to run Nagy’s offense this season. If anyone can make it work.


Communication is his achilles heel. He cant help but paint himself into corners, or just never liked what he was seeing to this point. Aside from Hub Arkush, Nagy and Boomer Esiason, fans and the NFL football world otherwise didn’t need to see any more tape to find readiness “whys”. He has been so closed minded, given that he should have stopped over explaining everything all the time. guy is obviously in a bubble. Something shook him out of it. Maybe it was the disappointing sight of Andy again after not seeing him for so long.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Why is it so complicated to understand Nagy is bad at his job, Dalton is average at his job, and Fields is our only HOPE at this point?

This has all been pointed out here before the media pointed it out, its not just dumb fans being driven by the media.

Because it may not be true? Fields is our "only hope" for what exactly? Winning next weeks game? Winning more games this season? Winning games in 2022-2030? I would say the last proposition is true, the first two may not be.

Ok, you have Nagy, Dalton, Fields. Fire one, cut one, start one, go!

There's only one way to answer. Fields is our best hope to get to our goal. The other two don't matter, just blips on the radar.

[dougthonus]

I don’t know how you can come to any other conclusion. Either he lied yesterday, or he lied today when he said Justin earned the job. Maybe he looked at some Detroit tape and saw the “whys”

The entire football world was dragging the guy. That caused him to fold, or the brass did. He probably can’t say what he said yesterday and do a 180 today out of sudden enlightenment. Can you explain it? Not sure it is any better if he doesn’t know which way he will go literally from day to day. Following a failure as a play caller, not so good.

I'll give you one other super reasonable option. He knew he was going to start Fields but wasn't going to announce it in the press until after talking to both QBs because that's a respectful way to treat both players and left him in the position of either disrespecting his guys or just lookin bad in the press for a day.

[fleet]

.

Based on these things, I'd say Andy Dalton is more likely to get me a win at this exact moment in time:
Fields has played significant time in 3 games:
1: In a game both he and Dalton were in, Dalton looked considerably better

Receivers dropping Fields’ passes, He looked good to me and Orlovsky. He had a good idea where to go with the ball and was mostly throwing catchable balls. If Robinson caught that TD bomb, Fields’ QBR would have been over 100 at that point

2: In the 2nd game, he had one of the worst games I have ever seen in my life from a QB and probably the lowest net passing yards I have ever seen.

You should give a heaping helping of blame to Matt Nagy for one of the worst game plans anyone has ever seen in their lives. So extremely bad professional NFL people were considering deliberate sabotage. By the way, Kirk Cousins just looked almost as bad against that defense, and he probably had a better scheme to work with at least. No way one should not use context on this opinion

3: His best game was a pedestrian outing against an awful defense

Aside from Aaron Rogers, the other veteran QBs against the Lions were pretty much not a whole lot better than Justin was, especially if you take away that tipped INT ball

[fleet]

I don’t know how you can come to any other conclusion. Either he lied yesterday, or he lied today when he said Justin earned the job. Maybe he looked at some Detroit tape and saw the “whys”

The entire football world was dragging the guy. That caused him to fold, or the brass did. He probably can’t say what he said yesterday and do a 180 today out of sudden enlightenment. Can you explain it? Not sure it is any better if he doesn’t know which way he will go literally from day to day. Following a failure as a play caller, not so good.

I'll give you one other super reasonable option. He knew he was going to start Fields but wasn't going to announce it in the press until after talking to both QBs because that's a respectful way to treat both players and left him in the position of either disrespecting his guys or just lookin bad in the press for a day.

If that is the case, how dumb is he for answering questions and lying? Seriously guy needs a PR person at his side

[nomorezorro]

maybe nagy's just bad at this ultimately unimportant aspect of his job. maybe he's a headcase who genuinely can't pick a direction. maybe he was handed an edict down from on high that fields has to start. maybe doug's right, and nagy only trotted out "andy's still qb1" earlier this week to buy time to tell fields/dalton about the change directly. maybe he willfully chose "andy is qb1 when healthy" as a talking point the past few weeks so he would have cover to bench fields if he sucked ass without totally embarrassing his prized qb prospect, but now he's seen enough to commit to the change. maybe the front office was responsible for "andy is the starter" and the coaching staff only now wore them down.

there are a bunch of plausible explanations for why nagy has done what he's done with the qb situation, but the end result is that fields is the starter going forward, which is what everyone wanted. feel free to wring as much agony as you want out of having to watch andy dalton play 1.5 games as a bear, but i personally would just celebrate that it's over

[nomorezorro]

i also think it's kind of preposterous to claim matt nagy, offensive-minded guy who has been clamoring for a talented qb for years, is the lone obstacle standing athwart the path to QB1 Justin Fields and yelling stop because he passionately wants journeyman replacement talent andy dalton Running His System instead?

like, nagy was reportedly involved in the predraft process that led to picking fields, has a close personal relationship with fields's college coach who has nothing but glowing things to say, was gushing about fields after the draft and toward the end of training camp even as he deployed the We Have A Process And We're Sticking To It routine.

maybe he didn't think fields was ready yet, or maybe he was being stubborn about letting fields learn from the bench without actually having a good reason to stick to that plan, or maybe he wasn't flexible enough in redesigning the offense to accommodate rookie-level fields's strengths. but to act like a coach who has spent years talking about a ~touchdown to checkdown mentality~ just has no interest in a big armed qb with elite deep ball accuracy and elite athleticism because he'd prefer to forever live in dink and dunktown with game manager andy? it feels deranged, sorry!

[dougthonus]

If that is the case, how dumb is he for answering questions and lying? Seriously guy needs a PR person at his side

Yeah, any answer other than the one he gave would have indicated that he was going to switch. He may have just wanted to talk first.

It also (obviously) could be that he got direct pressure from Pace instead and was forced against his will. I just throw out the possibility because I've had to do things like that for similar reasons as a manager before.

[dougthonus]

.

Based on these things, I'd say Andy Dalton is more likely to get me a win at this exact moment in time:
Fields has played significant time in 3 games:
1: In a game both he and Dalton were in, Dalton looked considerably better

Receivers dropping Fields’ passes, He looked good to me and Orlovsky. He had a good idea where to go with the ball and was mostly throwing catchable balls. If Robinson caught that TD bomb, Fields’ QBR would have been over 100 at that point

2: In the 2nd game, he had one of the worst games I have ever seen in my life from a QB and probably the lowest net passing yards I have ever seen.

You should give a heaping helping of blame to Matt Nagy for one of the worst game plans anyone has ever seen in their lives. So extremely bad professional NFL people were considering deliberate sabotage. By the way, Kirk Cousins just looked almost as bad against that defense, and he probably had a better scheme to work with at least. No way one should not use context on this opinion

3: His best game was a pedestrian outing against an awful defense

Aside from Aaron Rogers, the other veteran QBs against the Lions were pretty much not a whole lot better than Justin was, especially if you take away that tipped INT ball

You: There is no Metric that shows Dalton is worse than Fields
Me: The most common QB metrics that exist both show that Fields is much worse than Dalton
You: Well that doesn't count

If you dont want to believe the metrics that is fine, there is an awfully limited sample size on Fields, but then why ask?

[Susan]

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

QB1 - he really is fun to listen to. He knows what he's capable of and seems laser focused on reaching that level. Reminds me of Russell Wilson a bit, just stoic.

[fleet]

.

Based on these things, I'd say Andy Dalton is more likely to get me a win at this exact moment in time:
Fields has played significant time in 3 games:
1: In a game both he and Dalton were in, Dalton looked considerably better

Receivers dropping Fields’ passes, He looked good to me and Orlovsky. He had a good idea where to go with the ball and was mostly throwing catchable balls. If Robinson caught that TD bomb, Fields’ QBR would have been over 100 at that point

2: In the 2nd game, he had one of the worst games I have ever seen in my life from a QB and probably the lowest net passing yards I have ever seen.

You should give a heaping helping of blame to Matt Nagy for one of the worst game plans anyone has ever seen in their lives. So extremely bad professional NFL people were considering deliberate sabotage. By the way, Kirk Cousins just looked almost as bad against that defense, and he probably had a better scheme to work with at least. No way one should not use context on this opinion

3: His best game was a pedestrian outing against an awful defense

Aside from Aaron Rogers, the other veteran QBs against the Lions were pretty much not a whole lot better than Justin was, especially if you take away that tipped INT ball

You: There is no Metric that shows Dalton is worse than Fields
Me: The most common QB metrics that exist both show that Fields is much worse than Dalton
You: Well that doesn't count

If you dont want to believe the metrics that is fine, there is an awfully limited sample size on Fields, but then why ask?

Obviously there is very little point of agreement I can find with any of your conclusions or reviews as I previously indicate. Nothing more to add other than what I have already said, and please enjoy your week. Agree to disagree or not. I’m pushing on like the Bears are.

[dougthonus]

Obviously there is very little point of agreement I can find with any of your conclusions or reviews as I previously indicate. Nothing more to add other than what I have already said, and please enjoy your week. Agree to disagree or not. I’m pushing on like the Bears are.

Haha, it doesn't matter anyway. I'm still in the start Fields camp. Have been since the day we drafted him. Even if I think Dalton is better for a short window, that window won't go away until Fields plays through it and better to get that period over with as soon as possible.

If you are right and Fields is already better, then better still.

[fleet]

I will respond one more, only to put a cap on the continued “metrics” questioning. Andy Dalton at his age/production level (see Dallas) puts up a few junk stats in this Nagy offense that doesn’t score in today’s NFL. Defenses basically just let him have completions because it is so difficult to maintain an 11 play short yardage 8 minute drive all the time, it is losing, antiquated football, and Dalton can’t expand his game to suit the need when it arises. Whatever his relative completion percentage…is unconvincing. As soon as a penalty or negative play happens drive is likely stalled. Explosive plays is where winning modern offense is at, and that is (hopefully?) Fields.