Deng to GS PG.13 / PG.43 Bulls Say Otherwise

Irregular · Post #841 » by **Irregular** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:35 pm

PistolP wrote:We have immediate starting positions to fill, but want to stay under the tax now, while also getting back a player who will have found his NBA groove by 2013-14. Let's just:

Trade Deng for Evans & 36
Trade for Dorrell Wright
Sign a PG with the MMLE
Draft Jeff Taylor

Rose / MMLE
Evans / Rip / #36
Wright / Taylor / Butler
Boozer / Taj
Noah / Asik

Boom, under the tax or pretty close

We can get more for Deng then that.

Kings would want us to take Salmons in that trade.

D_GoLow · Post #842 » by **D_GoLow** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:37 pm

Irregular wrote:Deng has hit his peak. To expect Deng to keep producing in 2 years with the amount of injuries he has had is nuts.

Draft night is only 3 days away.

He's been pretty healthy the past 2 years & like people have mentioned, it's not a garantee Deng will get the wrist surgery this offseason.

So what other injuries are you talking about? 2005-2009 is irrelevent at this point.

Post #843 » by **coldfish** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:37 pm

Irregular wrote:

The Current Model of the Bulls can't even beat the 76ers in the playoffs.

You would force Derrick to be the scorer again, and when has a PG won a title by himself?

The Bulls lost their best player, had their second best player with only one functional hand and lost their third best player.

Under those circumstances, the Miami Heat couldn't win 30 games in a season. Since they couldn't handle that type of injury problems, should the Heat blow it up? Should all teams now start using the "six star" model so that when your top 3 guys go down you still have a Miami Heat level team?

I agree. I think the 6 star model is definitely the way to go. It has to be young too because we want a long window.

Rose
Harden
Durant
Love
Bynum
with Carmello coming off the bench as a 6th man for scoring purposes.

If the Bulls front office can't put together a team like that, they are brutally incompetent. Dammit GarPax!!!!

PistolP · Post #844 » by **PistolP** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:37 pm

Irregular wrote:We can get more for Deng then that.

I used to hope so, but last rumor was #7 + 2 expirings for Deng + two first rounders

djunkster · Post #845 » by **djunkster** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:38 pm

Anyone can get hurt at anytime. Trade Deng for a draft pick, the pick could get hurt. Injuries happen, but you shouldn't plan out your team's future based on injuries that are out of your control.

It doesn't make much logical sense to include injuries as part of any team building model. We've only had one chance to go against the Heat in the past two years during the playoffs. The call this model of team that we've built a failure and to declare that there's no way this current team can beat the Heat is really seeing things in a very limited sample in which no conclusion can be accurately drawn.

Irregular · Post #846 » by **Irregular** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:39 pm

I would like a

Rose
Beal or Lamb
Noah
Wright
Boozer

Lineup

Then sign the best FA in 2014

One can only dream!

PJ Brown · Post #847 » by **PJ Brown** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:39 pm

DuckIII wrote:
Every scenario in which the FO pays him his market value? The notion that Deng is gone in 2 years is a speculative fan construct developed to justify these ridiculous trade proposals.

Red, no surprise, has probably argued most effectively that if they have doubts about re-signing him, then shopping him is sensible. I agree with you that people acting like it's a given are cheating a bit. You are right that it's not a given that he'll make the same or more money, due to the CBA. There are many other hard to predict factors, such as Deng's health, if he's playing at an all-star level once healthy and the team's success during these two years. We really can't say for certain how much he'll make.

U boj · Post #848 » by **U boj** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:40 pm

PJ Brown wrote:
U boj wrote:
The Bulls are not using the amnesty on Boozer with two years left on his deal.

Also, they don't have enough money to replace the bench guys. Without trading/amnestying Deng or Boozer now or next summer they will not be contenders.

Boozer is staying so Deng would have to go. Trading him now gives you a better chance to compete in 2013/2014.

It's that simple.

You might be right, but it's certainly not that simple. There's a much greater chance they'll amnesty Boozer the shorter his deal gets. If that's what's needed to avoid the tax, for example, they'll certainly consider it. You might be right about Boozer staying for the time being having something to do with Deng being shopped, but it's less certain that trading Deng now makes you better in '13-'14. That rookie would have to be pretty special to make you better.

Are guys like Watson and Brewer really that difficult to replace? They've served the team well, but vets, Butler and well-chosen rookies can probably fill in. You're also assuming they don't make any other moves to improve the team in the meantime.

Which moves exactly?

Replacing Brewer, Korver and CJ with vet minium guys and late first/second round picks is making you worse. And Boozer will also get worse.

Derrick Rose has one healthy knee as of late, let's not ignore that fact also.

imagge · Post #849 » by **imagge** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:40 pm

I ask again, if the Bulls keep Deng and resign Asik for 5 mil, and cut everyone else, won't they be over the tax line this year?

7 players = 63 mil
Asik = mil
29th pick = 1 mil

9 players at 69 mil with 3 spots to fill means going over the tax.

D_GoLow · Post #850 » by **D_GoLow** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:40 pm

At this point, I'm all for not letting Deng go. Trading him for the #7 or #8 pick is just too much of a risk. Deng is a big time defender, shooter, & team leader. We can't afford to lose that.

Irregular · Post #851 » by **Irregular** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:42 pm

Maybe Kirk Hinrich will accept a hometown discount?

Kirk And Deng back together in 2013!

Ralphb07 · Post #852 » by **Ralphb07** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:42 pm

Here's my opinion based on everything I've heard... I think Deng is NOT traded and all we see come draft night is getting an 2nd round pick. Maybe moving up a few spots if someone we like is in range. Other than that I things will be very quiet for us.

The Bear Jew · Post #853 » by **The Bear Jew** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:44 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:Here's my opinion based on everything I've heard... I think Deng is NOT traded and all we see come draft night is getting an 2nd round pick. Maybe moving up a few spots if someone we like is in range. Other than that I things will be very quiet for us.

+1

U boj · Post #854 » by **U boj** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:44 pm

Irregular wrote:Maybe Kirk Hinrich will accept a hometown discount?

Kirk And Deng back together in 2013!

Hinrich is trash. As is Jason Kidd.

They should be looking to spend it on a better PG than Watson or spend it elsewhere. Get some wing scoring(guys lik Delfino for example).

blumeany · Post #855 » by **blumeany** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:44 pm

Here's the thing: the Bulls left the door open. If they had said 'We're NOT trading you', then we could close this thread and call it a day. Instead, they specifically debunked this one rumor. To me, that not only leaves the door open, but also gives birth to the possibility that there are other deals out there that the Bulls are trying to manipulate.

Irregular · Post #856 » by **Irregular** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:45 pm

U boj wrote:
Irregular wrote:Maybe Kirk Hinrich will accept a hometown discount?

Kirk And Deng back together in 2013!

Hinrich is trash. As is Jason Kidd.

They should be looking to spend it on a better PG than Watson or spend it elsewhere. Get some wing scoring(guys lik Delfino for example).

Then we would have to go over the tax!

U boj · Post #857 » by **U boj** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:46 pm

Irregular wrote:
U boj wrote:
Irregular wrote:Maybe Kirk Hinrich will accept a hometown discount?

Kirk And Deng back together in 2013!

Hinrich is trash. As is Jason Kidd.

They should be looking to spend it on a better PG than Watson or spend it elsewhere. Get some wing scoring(guys lik Delfino for example).

Then we would have to go over the tax!

Not really.

red222 · Post #858 » by **red222** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:46 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:Here's my opinion based on everything I've heard... I think Deng is NOT traded and all we see come draft night is getting an 2nd round pick. Maybe moving up a few spots if someone we like is in range. Other than that I things will be very quiet for us.

Irregular · Post #859 » by **Irregular** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:47 pm

Bulls have to match any team for Asik first.

The Bear Jew · Post #860 » by **The Bear Jew** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:47 pm

U boj wrote:
Irregular wrote:Maybe Kirk Hinrich will accept a hometown discount?

Kirk And Deng back together in 2013!

Hinrich is trash. As is Jason Kidd.

They should be looking to spend it on a better PG than Watson or spend it elsewhere. Get some wing scoring(guys lik Delfino for example).

Hinrich is essentially a defensive specialist at this point in his career, I agree, not a fit for the Bulls at PG at all. Kidd has a lot left in him though, and is much better than Watson (click the link in my sig if you want my reasoning and find the Watson vs Kidd article). He's still an excellent passer and defender (he played KD a little in the playoffs). I'd be perfectly happy with Kidd taking the MMLE.