holv03 wrote:Jvaughn wrote:HomoSapien wrote:Someone talk to me about Obi Toppin. Why has everyone written him off? From what I can see (and I'm just going off of highlights), he's probably the most athletic player in the draft. Straight up elite-level big man athleticism like a young Kenyon Martin or Antonio McDyess. It seems like he's elite at running the floor and also can shoot the ball. His shooting percentages are just off the charts. The guy makes 63% of his shots and 40% of his threes on solid volume. It's clear his rebounding needs work. He's not an elite shot-blocker, but a good one. He also generates steals.
Is he like an Eddy Curry-level defender or something? Is his motor so bad that we don't think he can develop into a better defender? I'm having a little trouble understanding why he has been dismissed by almost everyone on the board.
While the positives you mentioned are accurate (shooting potential, athletic, good runner) his negatives are glaring. He's pretty old, terrible defender, bad rebounder, prone to laziness. I'm also not completely sold on his shooting as his success is based on a small sample size (less than 3PA per game). I know you shouldn't draft for fit, but I don't really think it's worth wasting a top 5 pick on someone who isn't really projected to be any better than our current young starting PF.
I really dislike when someone says that a player is pretty old. Obi Toppin is 22 years old. David Robinson was drafted at the age of 24 yr old and he turned out pretty good, Kyle Kuzma was 22 yrs old when drafted, John Stockton was 22 yrs old when drafted and I could keep naming more players. To me that doesn't mean anything.
Now what matters to me is the players game and potential. Toppin was a late bloomer his defense is not the best and he doesn't give his best effort. I do believe however that he could improve if he improves his defensive stance, improves his awareness, gives a better effort on that end. The problem with Toppin is that he relies too much on his athleticism to recover. He doesn't closeout and when he does he doesn't give his best effort in order to challenge the defender.
The player I think the Bulls should take is James Wiseman but I believe that he will go number 2 or 3. Wiseman can ball and he would be great on this team.
In comparison to other prospects, especially ones that have his level of rawness (as far as refined skills) he is pretty old. He'll be a 23 year old rookie next year. Lauri is going into his 4th year and they're about the same age.
David Robinson was a generational talent and Kuzma already came into the league with a go to NBA skill (shooting) and as I said above, I'm very skeptical of Toppin's shooting based on the small sample size.
Now while Toppin's defensive woes could I prove, it's a bit concerning that someone with his level of athleticism isn't a much better defender. As you agreed, a big part of it is effort. I'm leery of players that have those issues of motivation already.
Now with Wiseman, he wouldn't be my #1 choice at 4, but I wouldn't be overly mad if the Bulls grabbed him, as long as there's a plan to move Wendell. If the draft goes 1) Edwards 2) Ball 3) Toppin/Deni, I'd go for Hayes before Wiseman, but it's not that huge of a gap in term of personal preference for me.
