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OT: COVID-19 thread #4

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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#841 » by tedwilliams1999 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:49 pm

_txchilibowl_ wrote:I'm curious and it seems some here have a medical background...

What, if anything, could cause a person to die directly from the Covid vaccine?


With the mRNA vaccines one immediate risk is anaphylaxis, which can be deadly - I don't know if there have been any deaths from this since its treatable and also very rare. Short term risks that could lead to death would be myocarditis or pericarditis, where your own body's immune cells attach heart tissue. Also pretty rare. Long term theoretical risks are unknown, but may include a array of autoimmune conditions.

With J&J and Astrozeneca, aside from anaphylaxis, I've heard a few case reports of blood clotting, low platelets (can lead to bleeding), Guillain Barre, and probably a few other things I'm forgetting. All of these obviously appear pretty rare as well.

The NEJM page I quoted earlier should have a more thorough description as well, but any of the above can be deadly in the right circumstance.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#842 » by waffle » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:41 pm

samwana wrote:
waffle wrote:
dice wrote:you are required to be vaccinated to go to school and join the military, so...nope


clearly you believe in false data


Why is this sudden use of the "my body my choice" among anti-vacr's? What about unwanted pregnancies I wonder...

Do you monitor everything you eat with as much oversight? How about what you breath? Ever had a drink? Taken drugs? Why this sudden INTENSE issue with something that has been proven not only safe, but often time LIFE SAVING, and not just for you, but sometimes for the people you love? Isn't that a bit weird? WHY THIS?

The difference here is that you are affecting other people NOT JUST YOURSELF. I only wear a mask to protect YOU (the un-vaccinated).

It's a very very very weird perspective.
if you only wear a mask for other, unvaccinated people, i can say pretty much for sure that you can take that thing down, because most unvaccinated people won't want you to wear a mask for them. i don't want anyone to wear a mask for me or to get vaccinated for me, if you do that do it for yourself and don't claim to do it for someone else.

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I AM NOT ASKING IF THEY WANT ME TO.

I do it because it is the right thing to do as a member of a SOCIETY.

Their views on the vaccine have been twisted by people who are either 1) looking for clicks 2) looking for political gain 3) looking to make $$$$.

I cannot fathom a reason for not getting the shot short of you have some KNOWN issue that makes it possibly dangerous....but

There have been something like 300 million doses given out (U.S.)? That seem like a pretty darn good test, don't you think?
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#843 » by waffle » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:47 pm

just looked it up. There have been 3 deaths linked to the vaccine.

MEANWHILE, Bees and Wasps kill an average of 62 people a year!

And even if you get what SEEMS like a mild case many people are termed "covid long haulers" who experience a weird range of post symptoms that sound TERRIBLE. Not getting vaccinated is just a terrible idea!
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#844 » by waffle » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:50 pm

My son had a VERY strong reaction to another vaccine, so you'd think I would be hesitant about him getting the jab. On the contrary, he was the first person in our household to get it. No issues. Was the right decision for sure.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#845 » by coldfish » Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:03 am

Got this from an old friend I haven't seen in years on facebook:

If you think Covid is not serious
If you think Covid is a hoax
If you think masks don’t matter
If you minimize the risk because “it’s just the flu”
If you think it’s vaccines that are the poison
Watch this. Watch my dad talk about his experience two days before he died. Watch him talk about his hopes of embracing his family that never happened.
My dad was vaccinated in February. He was also immunocompimised. He had just beat cancer and was wrapping up chemo. 95% protection is not the same as 100% protection. This is math not a political statement.
When my mom called 911 the FIRST time, they didn’t take him because the hospital was full of other Covid patients. They told him he should stay home rather than lie in a gurney in a hallway for two days. When my mom called 911 the second time he was so bad they had to take him to trauma. He was the only vaccinated Covid patient in the hospital.
In the first two weeks he was in the hospital my mother and I got to see him for one hour each. His own brother was not allowed to see him in that time. I kissed my dad goodbye through two masks and a face shield. I held his hand as he took his dying breathes with rubber gloves on. Where is the freedom in that?
I will bury my dad tomorrow. This didn’t have to happen.


https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/charlotte/news/2021/09/24/exclusive--inside-a-covid-19-patient-s-room?fbclid=IwAR1wC4RkReAxbuX-CYif2t4xiBE15BF8vsoHdPPsfA2OOxfBgDOQvHETBrU
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#846 » by Dresden » Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:11 am

It's possible that soon we'll have an oral anti-viral to take for Covid. You would take it immediately after getting a positive diagnosis, and it's supposed to shorten the illness and lessen the severity:

https://qz.com/2064787/a-daily-pill-to-treat-covid-could-be-just-months-away/?utm_source=YPL
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#847 » by Almost Retired » Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:51 pm

The Pfizer drug mentioned by Dresden above is essentially Ivermectin.....maybe Big Pharma is going to hop on the Ivermectin train:

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/pfizer-launches-final-study-covid-drug-thats-suspiciously-similar-ivermectin
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#848 » by dougthonus » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:17 pm

Almost Retired wrote:The Pfizer drug mentioned by Dresden above is essentially Ivermectin.....maybe Big Pharma is going to hop on the Ivermectin train:

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/pfizer-launches-final-study-covid-drug-thats-suspiciously-similar-ivermectin


:rofl:

Well as long as a random guy on the internet with no knowledge of the makeup of the drug other than that it shares an adjective says they are the same, I guess that's conclusive.

As noted in his own article, there are many different anti-viral drugs being tested against COVID, so far all the classic ones haven't been shown to be affective, so having a common adjective doesn't appear to mean has a similar impact in any other cases.

Also worth noting that an anti-parasitic (Ivermectin) doesn't sound all that similar to anti-viral drugs (what all the new tests are). IE, if I were just using the sounds the same test like this guy, then Tamiflu sounds a lot more like this new thing.

Also, worth reminding you that people literally forged all of the results of their Ivermectin studies which have all been revoked after the data was shown to be falsified. So studies were performed, had bad results, were lied about, distributed, then retracted when someone spent 2 seconds looking at them.

That said, I'll say again, I'd be psyched if Ivermectin or literally any other drug passes a real trial and looks promising for treating COVID. That'd be fantastic. Especially if it were a cheap generic. My desire for that fantastic outcome hasn't made it true though.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#849 » by GetBuLLish » Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:57 pm

The rising authoritarianism in this country is scary stuff.

Crazy seeing some NBA players at the forefront of combatting it. Kudos to them.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#850 » by micromonkey » Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:05 pm

They have been investigating all sorts of protease inhibitors since the start--which is why HIV drugs and antivirals have/are being tested. Early on they thought a "japanese tamiflu" like product could help but I'm unclear where that research went. Right now only remdesivir is approved--and even its benefits are not massive.

Early on before approval remdesivir was "not recommended" by the WHO and FDA--not as part of any conspiracy but because the data was not in. FDA approved and WHO still did not as far as I can tell. Remdesivir was a repurposed Ebola drug--just as many other candidates being tested were originally being used for HIV/Hep C. When they find something that looks good in a test tube--they test it regardless of its original use.

Ivermectin works against COVID in computer models and a test tube. Which is why researchers even bothered investigating it--they thought of it--not the current advocates of it. Going from computer model / test tube to mouse to human--many drugs are abandoned along the way as they just don't translate--its not a conspiracy -- just the way it is. The extreme example is you can use pure alcohol to kill E coli or staph on a slide but there is no way to effectively get the alcohol in the blood to target only the E coli. It will affect more and you'd be dead before you could get the level needed to kill bacteria. It doesn't appear that ivermectin is hitting critical levels in humans to be effective. One of the articles you referenced even mentioned the need to improve delivery. The linked article talks about the poor oral availability of ivermectin and points to this paper on potential ways to improve.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539925/

We hypothesize that micro- and nanotechnology-based systems for the pulmonary delivery of ivermectin may offer opportunities for accelerating the clinical re-purposing of this “enigmatic drug” in the context of SARS-CoV-2 infection, as recent advances in pharmaceutical technology and nanomaterials can be applied to the treatment of pulmonary infections [[24], [25], [26],[36], [37], [38], [39], [40]]. Despite the challenges faced in developing these drug delivery carriers, and uncertainty with regard to the efficacy of ivermectin, it indeed presents promising potential. In an optimistic scenario, new drug dosage forms may not only contribute to mitigate SARS-CoV-2 infection, but also be effective against other emerging viral diseases.


No one is saying it works now, today as is for CoV-2.

Then you can look to human studies and the data are lacking, so they continue look for other options and in this case create a new one. Again, the old cheap steroid dexamethasone is a game changer which is why they use it. Its the same process for everything--there is no widespread cabal.

And the zerohedge guy can't even keep his story straight. He was saying Ivermectin didn't show value because it needed to be tested as a prophylactic. Then he says this is just the same thing but somehow will be able to pass trials. They are not recommending you use this as a prophylactic--this is a short-term regimen of daily pills that can fight the virus early after diagnosis (like Tamilfu). They simply need to see the outcome of the trials. The conspiracy clan never self corrects but is just prepping to say that if the new drug works--its the same thing as ivermectin, chemical structure and clinical trials be damned. This is also dangerous setting up a false equivalence to further even more deranged and misinformed thinking down the road.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#851 » by Jimako10 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:18 pm

dougthonus wrote:
League Circles wrote:Yeah I know, I was just making a side note at how absurd the idea is that you can get away with detrimental behavior based on your belief system, but ONLY if that belief system is an established group-think orthodoxy. Essentially they're not allowing a person to hold/invent their own belief system, which I find laughable. It's basically "well, OK, you can go against the rules, but ONLY if you're a mindless sheep. If you try to think for yourself, then you have to play by the rules. Lol. Again, I'm neutral on vaccine mandates, but think people who don't get vaxed are making a big mistake, and I kinda want to see them forcibly vaxed for entertainment (and public health) reasons.


Yeah, the freedom of religion thing is kind of a weird thing.

How many people do I need to start a religion? Can I make a religion that violates all kinds of government statutes then and claim religious freedom? It seems like the work to establish a religion is probably near impossible for a brand new religion to be recognized to gain religious freedoms at this point would be my guess.



All you need is an IRS exemption! See Scientology!
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#852 » by LateNight » Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:47 pm

The "rising authoritarianism" of asking people to meet workplace safety standards
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#853 » by waffle » Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:49 pm

Jimako10 wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
League Circles wrote:Yeah I know, I was just making a side note at how absurd the idea is that you can get away with detrimental behavior based on your belief system, but ONLY if that belief system is an established group-think orthodoxy. Essentially they're not allowing a person to hold/invent their own belief system, which I find laughable. It's basically "well, OK, you can go against the rules, but ONLY if you're a mindless sheep. If you try to think for yourself, then you have to play by the rules. Lol. Again, I'm neutral on vaccine mandates, but think people who don't get vaxed are making a big mistake, and I kinda want to see them forcibly vaxed for entertainment (and public health) reasons.


Yeah, the freedom of religion thing is kind of a weird thing.

How many people do I need to start a religion? Can I make a religion that violates all kinds of government statutes then and claim religious freedom? It seems like the work to establish a religion is probably near impossible for a brand new religion to be recognized to gain religious freedoms at this point would be my guess.



All you need is an IRS exemption! See Scientology!


It exists....google Flying Spaghetti Monster. A legit religion. At least legally. It's a fascinating story, actually
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#854 » by dougthonus » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:36 pm

Jimako10 wrote:All you need is an IRS exemption! See Scientology!


I don't know that tax empty status makes you a legal religion from a school district's perspective (nor do I know that it doesn't). You can be tax exempt by just being a non profit though. I don't know that the IRS tax exempt status would qualify as meaningful here or not when attempting to avoid local ordinance under a freedom of religion waiver. I wouldn't think tax status is relevant in that circumstance.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#855 » by lemonmellow » Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:24 pm

https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/global-affairs/the-lab-leak-the-missing-scientists-the-coverup-piecing-together-what-really-happened-in-wuhan/news-story/122d7cab3d2db39103d75085edb85195

On September 12, 2019, the virus database at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was taken offline, and with it 22,000 coronavirus samples were gone.

That same day security was beefed up at the facility and a tender was issued to replace the air-conditioning system. There was later a communications blackout, with no cell-phone or signals activity.

The institute also went on a spending spree, purchasing an air medical waste incinerator and PCR equipment to test for coronaviruses.

Intelligence was received that three people working at the Wuhan Institute of Virology had fallen sick in October 2019, two months before the first official case was reported. ...

One of those three researchers working at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was Huang Yanling, who disappeared from the institute's website in early 2020.

Her social media presence also vanished. She has not been seen since.

Many believe she was infected with COVID-19 and was 'patient zero', despite Beijing's denials.

[Former DNI John Ratcliffe] said there was still compelling intelligence the virus came from the Wuhan Institute of Virology that has not been declassified. ...

"There is more intelligence out there and I'd like to see it declassified because it will create additional pressure not just on Chinese Communist Party officials but others that still continue to deny that China is the bad actor here."
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#856 » by HomoSapien » Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:28 pm

As a side note, I found Bradley Beal's press conference to be really disheartening and embarrassing. He just comes off as a moron, but also... if I can say this... a little bitch. You're a 6'4", muscular, athlete and you're that afraid of a little shot? Just pathetic. So glad he's not on our team.

I'm also curious to see how super worldly and intelligent Steve Kerr manages to get along with Andrew Wiggins this year. I tend to believe that deep down. his respect for Wiggins is quickly deteriorating and it's hard to be successful with someone you don't respect.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#857 » by micromonkey » Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:10 pm

lemonmellow wrote:https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/global-affairs/the-lab-leak-the-missing-scientists-the-coverup-piecing-together-what-really-happened-in-wuhan/news-story/122d7cab3d2db39103d75085edb85195

On September 12, 2019, the virus database at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was taken offline, and with it 22,000 coronavirus samples were gone.

That same day security was beefed up at the facility and a tender was issued to replace the air-conditioning system. There was later a communications blackout, with no cell-phone or signals activity.

The institute also went on a spending spree, purchasing an air medical waste incinerator and PCR equipment to test for coronaviruses.

Intelligence was received that three people working at the Wuhan Institute of Virology had fallen sick in October 2019, two months before the first official case was reported. ...

One of those three researchers working at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was Huang Yanling, who disappeared from the institute's website in early 2020.

Her social media presence also vanished. She has not been seen since.

Many believe she was infected with COVID-19 and was 'patient zero', despite Beijing's denials.

[Former DNI John Ratcliffe] said there was still compelling intelligence the virus came from the Wuhan Institute of Virology that has not been declassified. ...

"There is more intelligence out there and I'd like to see it declassified because it will create additional pressure not just on Chinese Communist Party officials but others that still continue to deny that China is the bad actor here."


The problem with the current lab leak theory is that its all based on rumors, not documented well and people who have agendas are pushing it. I was open to investigating it but find it totally lacking.

Mr Ratcliffe is a nutter who contradicts his own agency--which means he isn't saying things based on what US intel actually found--just what he wants.

All the missing COV data has been restored--so that is a blind alley as well.

The lab leak is also focusing on 1 site that is uncommon (but does exist elsewhere in other coronaviruses)--instead of the fact that the rest of the makeup of COV-2 is vastly different from any backbones ever used in any coronavirus research ever by over 100 sites. That is why the consensus is still that while a lab leak is possible the bulk of the evidence still points to natural origin. Never mind the fact that any actual genetic research and engineering would not happen in Wuhan but elsewhere.

Even if the suspicious grant (that was denied) was approved (it wasn't) there was not even time to do the creation and leak it based on the timeline. Never mind they were talking about a SARS COV1 (very different) not anything resembling COV2.

All of this is provocative--but it still leaves us at--this is very likely NOT how it happened. Regardless of if you like GOF research or the fact that they dragged their feet on the FOIA or not. There is not enough there.

Like SARS, MERS its likely it went from bat via some intermediary animal but we don't know. It took 13 years to get to the actual source for SARS and we still don't have a definitive origin for MERS.

the origins of the virus [MERS] are not fully understood but, according to the analysis of different virus genomes, it is believed that it may have originated in bats and was transmitted to camels sometime in the distant past.


We might never get any closer to the COV2 origin than that. And yes it might suck--but it would not indicate a coverup. And yes China is not transparent--and neither was the US but none of this shows us anything other than show untrustworthy research groups. People/groups can have much more mundane reasons for not wanting information out in the public.

A lab leak is possible of course but having it be a foregone conclusion with sham/weak evidence is foolish and hurts serious investigation into it.

The real conspiracy is the people who have been pushing this agenda since the beginning, ignoring the heaps of non-conforming data and providing suggestive/provocative theories but not definitive evidence.

I'm open to a lab leak--but its likely that whatever is being pushed now is completely off base.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#858 » by Bullflip » Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:12 pm

Just had a disheartening conversation with a co-worker of mine. His 22 year old son is going to be intubated because he is having trouble breathing from COVID. His son unfortunately got it from someone at a family dinner party where hardly anyone was vaccinated including my co-worker. Now there is a chance he will lose his son. Co-worker is now blaming himself and a lot of regret for not getting the vaccine. It was hard to console him and just felt really bad for his family since this was very avoidable
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#859 » by Dresden » Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:46 pm

Bullflip wrote:Just had a disheartening conversation with a co-worker of mine. His 22 year old son is going to be intubated because he is having trouble breathing from COVID. His son unfortunately got it from someone at a family dinner party where hardly anyone was vaccinated including my co-worker. Now there is a chance he will lose his son. Co-worker is now blaming himself and a lot of regret for not getting the vaccine. It was hard to console him and just felt really bad for his family since this was very avoidable


Thats a very sad story, but all too common- people think they are bulletproof until someone close to them, or they themselves, become gravely ill, at which time they suddenly realize how stupid they were. The same thing happened with the AIDS epidemic- many people refusing to practice safe sex, thinking that so many people are getting it, it was inevitable that they would too, so why bother? Or people thinking it wouldn't happen to them, until it did. It takes awhile for people to change behavior. Unfortunately, that delay can be deadly.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#860 » by Dresden » Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:52 pm

micromonkey wrote:
lemonmellow wrote:https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/global-affairs/the-lab-leak-the-missing-scientists-the-coverup-piecing-together-what-really-happened-in-wuhan/news-story/122d7cab3d2db39103d75085edb85195

On September 12, 2019, the virus database at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was taken offline, and with it 22,000 coronavirus samples were gone.

That same day security was beefed up at the facility and a tender was issued to replace the air-conditioning system. There was later a communications blackout, with no cell-phone or signals activity.

The institute also went on a spending spree, purchasing an air medical waste incinerator and PCR equipment to test for coronaviruses.

Intelligence was received that three people working at the Wuhan Institute of Virology had fallen sick in October 2019, two months before the first official case was reported. ...

One of those three researchers working at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was Huang Yanling, who disappeared from the institute's website in early 2020.

Her social media presence also vanished. She has not been seen since.

Many believe she was infected with COVID-19 and was 'patient zero', despite Beijing's denials.

[Former DNI John Ratcliffe] said there was still compelling intelligence the virus came from the Wuhan Institute of Virology that has not been declassified. ...

"There is more intelligence out there and I'd like to see it declassified because it will create additional pressure not just on Chinese Communist Party officials but others that still continue to deny that China is the bad actor here."


The problem with the current lab leak theory is that its all based on rumors, not documented well and people who have agendas are pushing it. I was open to investigating it but find it totally lacking.

Mr Ratcliffe is a nutter who contradicts his own agency--which means he isn't saying things based on what US intel actually found--just what he wants.

All the missing COV data has been restored--so that is a blind alley as well.

The lab leak is also focusing on 1 site that is uncommon (but does exist elsewhere in other coronaviruses)--instead of the fact that the rest of the makeup of COV-2 is vastly different from any backbones ever used in any coronavirus research ever by over 100 sites. That is why the consensus is still that while a lab leak is possible the bulk of the evidence still points to natural origin. Never mind the fact that any actual genetic research and engineering would not happen in Wuhan but elsewhere.

Even if the suspicious grant (that was denied) was approved (it wasn't) there was not even time to do the creation and leak it based on the timeline. Never mind they were talking about a SARS COV1 (very different) not anything resembling COV2.

All of this is provocative--but it still leaves us at--this is very likely NOT how it happened. Regardless of if you like GOF research or the fact that they dragged their feet on the FOIA or not. There is not enough there.

Like SARS, MERS its likely it went from bat via some intermediary animal but we don't know. It took 13 years to get to the actual source for SARS and we still don't have a definitive origin for MERS.

the origins of the virus [MERS] are not fully understood but, according to the analysis of different virus genomes, it is believed that it may have originated in bats and was transmitted to camels sometime in the distant past.


We might never get any closer to the COV2 origin than that. And yes it might suck--but it would not indicate a coverup. And yes China is not transparent--and neither was the US but none of this shows us anything other than show untrustworthy research groups. People/groups can have much more mundane reasons for not wanting information out in the public.

A lab leak is possible of course but having it be a foregone conclusion with sham/weak evidence is foolish and hurts serious investigation into it.

The real conspiracy is the people who have been pushing this agenda since the beginning, ignoring the heaps of non-conforming data and providing suggestive/provocative theories but not definitive evidence.

I'm open to a lab leak--but its likely that whatever is being pushed now is completely off base.


Thank you for that. You said what I've felt/believed in based on the evidence I've seen, but in much more eloquent and knowledgable way than I could ever do. I would esp. emphasize the point that it takes sometimes years for the real vectors of these outbreaks to be identified- it doesn't mean there is a cover-up, it's just a very difficult thing to do, and often times, scientists during a pandemic are too busy trying to come up with cures for the disease to be chasing around the countryside looking for the original points of infection.

The story of how AIDS was traced to a very particular region in Africa, and even a few different populations of primates is a good case in point- that took some years as well. And then they discovered it likely had been around since the early 1900's, and the first substantial human infections occurred in the 1950's or so. But it didn't start growing exponentially until it made it's way to large cities in Africa.

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