Bulls trade Alex Caruso to OKC for Josh Giddey

[dougthonus]

There is no reason for Giddey to sign any kind of deal now. Unless he has Lonzo Ball knees we dont know about I see no reason from his side to agree to it. Giddey can get 20M in offseason without any issues. Rather pay Giddey 20M than Patrick Williams. One of them is actual NBA talent.

This is not particular to Giddey, but I always think this is funny, because there is always a reason to sign now. Generational wealth vs even a small chance of not having generational wealth. NBA players are generally a very high risk taking group with their contracts though and few take meaningful discounts to sign early.

[CROBulls]

There is no reason for Giddey to sign any kind of deal now. Unless he has Lonzo Ball knees we dont know about I see no reason from his side to agree to it. Giddey can get 20M in offseason without any issues. Rather pay Giddey 20M than Patrick Williams. One of them is actual NBA talent.

This is not particular to Giddey, but I always think this is funny, because there is always a reason to sign now. Generational wealth vs even a small chance of not having generational wealth. NBA players are generally a very high risk taking group with their contracts though and few take meaningful discounts to sign early.

If Giddey got even injury which would take him out half a season, he would still get max extension. Anything short Lonzo's knees/Brandon Roy knees (even then remember Bulls gave Lonzo a deal) or anything short from breaking MCL/ACL whatever, he is still getting long term 20M+ deal. Even if he signs one year deal and he proves later that he can play, with exploding cap space he is again getting 20M+ per year.

Yeah. It's generational wealth, but for 98% of us. He made to NBA and its time to get a bag. He is not Isaiah Thomas. He is for god sake 6'8 point guard who doesnt rely too much on athleticism.

[Rose2Boozer]

I don't mind the deal. Giddey wasn't good enough to take the ball out of SGA's hands. He won't have that problem here playing a point forward role. The only thing I dislike about this deal is that we traded our Lavine sweetener. Teams will be willing to take on Lavine's contract, but it's going to take more than just Lavine. Will AK use Ayo as the new sweetener, are teams going to be interested.

[League Circles]

Well half that list might not be on the team anymore. I agree with what you're saying but we still need more shooting. Can't be satisfied with that list, come on, are we not trying to be the best team? A pure shooter or two would be great, lets not be satisfied with the crap we have been watching.

Who should we bench in order to play another generic "shooter"?

Even if all 3 of Demar, Zach and Patrick are all gone (unlikely), we will almost certainly be getting back at least one perimeter shooter in return. And if we don't, Coby and Ayo will start at guard with Giddey at the 3. At C, we'll either have Vuc or likely a guy who doesn't really shoot threes. That leaves the 4. IMO, if Zach and Demar are both gone, Patrick is highly likely to return, which gives us our shooter at the 4. And I haven't mentioned Jevon Carter, Ball, Bitim etc.

Generic "shooting" isn't even on my radar of stuff we really meed right now. Playmaking (Giddey) and size/athleticism is much more pressing IMO. Though trades can change things quick in any way.

I don't want a generic shooter. I want good role players that can actually make shots consistently. Are you really arguing with me because I want more shooters around Giddey? You really believe we have enough good shooting? I'm actually surprised someone would think that but that's fine, we can disagree.

Sorry I think I let semantics get the best of me. I do agree we need plenty of shooters to make giddy effective, I just think we're likely to have enough good catch and shoot guys because I think Zach and/or Patrick will be back, plus Coby and Ayo. I don't think we need to prioritize shooting with our draft pick unless it happens to be a four or five that we're talking about.

[League Circles]

There is no reason for Giddey to sign any kind of deal now. Unless he has Lonzo Ball knees we dont know about I see no reason from his side to agree to it. Giddey can get 20M in offseason without any issues. Rather pay Giddey 20M than Patrick Williams. One of them is actual NBA talent.

This is not particular to Giddey, but I always think this is funny, because there is always a reason to sign now. Generational wealth vs even a small chance of not having generational wealth. NBA players are generally a very high risk taking group with their contracts though and few take meaningful discounts to sign early.

I couldn't agree more. And I always think it's crazy how few players are willing to take a little less to not only get that generational wealth as soon as possible, but to compel a team to give them many chances over many years because they invested so heavily in them.

[jnrjr79]

There is no reason for Giddey to sign any kind of deal now. Unless he has Lonzo Ball knees we dont know about I see no reason from his side to agree to it. Giddey can get 20M in offseason without any issues. Rather pay Giddey 20M than Patrick Williams. One of them is actual NBA talent.

This is not particular to Giddey, but I always think this is funny, because there is always a reason to sign now. Generational wealth vs even a small chance of not having generational wealth. NBA players are generally a very high risk taking group with their contracts though and few take meaningful discounts to sign early.

If Giddey got even injury which would take him out half a season, he would still get max extension. Anything short Lonzo's knees/Brandon Roy knees (even then remember Bulls gave Lonzo a deal) or anything short from breaking MCL/ACL whatever, he is still getting long term 20M+ deal. Even if he signs one year deal and he proves later that he can play, with exploding cap space he is again getting 20M+ per year.

Yeah. It's generational wealth, but for 98% of us. He made to NBA and its time to get a bag. He is not Isaiah Thomas. He is for god sake 6'8 point guard who doesnt rely too much on athleticism.

These things are so easy to say when it’s not your money at risk.

[League Circles]

There is no reason for Giddey to sign any kind of deal now. Unless he has Lonzo Ball knees we dont know about I see no reason from his side to agree to it. Giddey can get 20M in offseason without any issues. Rather pay Giddey 20M than Patrick Williams. One of them is actual NBA talent.

This is not particular to Giddey, but I always think this is funny, because there is always a reason to sign now. Generational wealth vs even a small chance of not having generational wealth. NBA players are generally a very high risk taking group with their contracts though and few take meaningful discounts to sign early.

If Giddey got even injury which would take him out half a season, he would still get max extension. Anything short Lonzo's knees/Brandon Roy knees (even then remember Bulls gave Lonzo a deal) or anything short from breaking MCL/ACL whatever, he is still getting long term 20M+ deal. Even if he signs one year deal and he proves later that he can play, with exploding cap space he is again getting 20M+ per year.

Yeah. It's generational wealth, but for 98% of us. He made to NBA and its time to get a bag. He is not Isaiah Thomas. He is for god sake 6'8 point guard who doesnt rely too much on athleticism.

I think if he has a poor shooting year and plays mostly off the bench because we keep Demar or just because he's not playing well. Then, he'll be an MLE player at best next year.

[dougthonus]

If Giddey got even injury which would take him out half a season, he would still get max extension.

Would be shocked if Giddey gets a max extension without absolutely massive improvement unless our front office is just delusional. If anyone viewed him as a max player, they would have topped our offer for him.

[Jvaughn]

Not sure if this was posted already, but apparently the Kings and Knicks both offered packages for Caruso that included draft capital.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10126048-nba-rumors-alex-caruso-was-eyed-by-knicks-before-thunder-trade-draft-picks-offered

[dougthonus]

I couldn't agree more. And I always think it's crazy how few players are willing to take a little less to not only get that generational wealth as soon as possible, but to compel a team to give them many chances over many years because they invested so heavily in them.

The agents talk them out of it for the most part.

I used to be pretty close with a minor agent, and he said the challenge is that if a guy ever signs early and outplays his contract, it's terrible for the agent because all the other agents will be in his ear like "your guy only got you X, I'd have done better" or "your agent convinced you to sign early because he didn't believe in you".

From a selfish perspective, a guy getting a massive injury and a worse deal doesn't hurt you as much as a guy signing early and getting a worse deal if you are the agent.

[dougthonus]

Not sure if this was posted already, but apparently the Kings and Knicks both offered packages for Caruso that included draft capital.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10126048-nba-rumors-alex-caruso-was-eyed-by-knicks-before-thunder-trade-draft-picks-offered

Just an aggregator.

The deals believed to be offered from what I read were: the Kings offered 13, the Knicks offered 24 an 25 (all picks in this draft).

I think that's an eye of the beholder thing. I think Giddey is a far safer bet to be valuable than either of those packages over the course of his career and also will provide more immediate impact, but the contract situation is much less advantageous in both cases.

Giddey is the retool move. Those packages are the rebuild move. I'd be curious how much hard ball we tried to play with OKC.

This does raise an interesting point in why we couldn't bluff OKC though. OKC had the pick at 12. If we said "we're going to take #13 from the Kings unless you give us something more, OKC could counter with "We'll give you #12 and trade Giddey for a different pick from someone else".

Thus if we wanted Giddey, there was no way to leverage the Kings offer into getting Giddey + something else since they could also trump the Kings offer without Giddey and allegedly had other offers to move Giddey for a 1st on the table.

[CROBulls]

This is not particular to Giddey, but I always think this is funny, because there is always a reason to sign now. Generational wealth vs even a small chance of not having generational wealth. NBA players are generally a very high risk taking group with their contracts though and few take meaningful discounts to sign early.

If Giddey got even injury which would take him out half a season, he would still get max extension. Anything short Lonzo's knees/Brandon Roy knees (even then remember Bulls gave Lonzo a deal) or anything short from breaking MCL/ACL whatever, he is still getting long term 20M+ deal. Even if he signs one year deal and he proves later that he can play, with exploding cap space he is again getting 20M+ per year.

Yeah. It's generational wealth, but for 98% of us. He made to NBA and its time to get a bag. He is not Isaiah Thomas. He is for god sake 6'8 point guard who doesnt rely too much on athleticism.

I think if he has a poor shooting year and plays mostly off the bench because we keep Demar or just because he's not playing well. Then, he'll be an MLE player at best next year.

No he wont. His agent will just blame Bulls for missmanagement of his client. Publicly if he needs too. His agent will quote 3 years in OKC before for Giddey's improvements. Bad Bulls roster construction and will say how many young players improved after they left Bulls and Giddey will still get 20M+.

[League Circles]

I couldn't agree more. And I always think it's crazy how few players are willing to take a little less to not only get that generational wealth as soon as possible, but to compel a team to give them many chances over many years because they invested so heavily in them.

The agents talk them out of it for the most part.

I used to be pretty close with a minor agent, and he said the challenge is that if a guy ever signs early and outplays his contract, it's terrible for the agent because all the other agents will be in his ear like "your guy only got you X, I'd have done better" or "your agent convinced you to sign early because he didn't believe in you".

From a selfish perspective, a guy getting a massive injury and a worse deal doesn't hurt you as much as a guy signing early and getting a worse deal if you are the agent.

Good points, and I'm sure you're spot on. It's a shame cause like I was saying, a lot of guys buy themselves 4-5 years of virtually guaranteed 25+ mpg when they sign any kind of big 2nd deal. That is then great for their long term career, cause they get lumped in with "starter/core" piece in terms of perception around the league. And that's invaluable. There are a lot of guys that looked like they would be that kind of player after 3 years, but then something went sideways their 4th (or 5th on a QO) year (could equally be any of injuries, role changes due to team struggles, or specific poor individual play by a guy), and they're a journeyman their whole career, getting 1-2 year deals at a time and never being considered a core piece.

[Pipp33]

Not sure if this was posted already, but apparently the Kings and Knicks both offered packages for Caruso that included draft capital.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10126048-nba-rumors-alex-caruso-was-eyed-by-knicks-before-thunder-trade-draft-picks-offered

The ONLY reason to take a draft pick over Giddey would be financially, with Giddey getting a new contract after this coming season.

If based purely off basketball, the Bulls need to add play making, Giddey brings that. He a very solid rebounder and when playing as primary play maker for OKC (SGA out) he played very well. I don't see many players in this draft that will have the same impact in that role this season

He's still 21 and is younger than a lot of this years draft class.

His shooting has improved each year in the league (small samples), but his FT % is very reasonable after a poor first 18 months in the league.

He was put in a role this season that did not suit his game (understandably with SGA and J-Dub's star qualities), and still was a great team mate and professional.

Everyone wants to highlight the Dallas playoff series and yes he was played off the floor in a position we will not be asking him to play. OKC themselves didn't play well in that series either. You can't blame a guy that's playing under 20 minutes a game for that series loss.
No-one mentions that he played fairly well against the Suns and hit 50% of his 3's in that series.

I think this is a very good trade. If the FO finally heads in the direction that this trade indicates, at least it's a chance to move away from being a perennial play-in team.

Josh, Coby, Ayo are a good young guard rotation

[League Circles]

If Giddey got even injury which would take him out half a season, he would still get max extension. Anything short Lonzo's knees/Brandon Roy knees (even then remember Bulls gave Lonzo a deal) or anything short from breaking MCL/ACL whatever, he is still getting long term 20M+ deal. Even if he signs one year deal and he proves later that he can play, with exploding cap space he is again getting 20M+ per year.

Yeah. It's generational wealth, but for 98% of us. He made to NBA and its time to get a bag. He is not Isaiah Thomas. He is for god sake 6'8 point guard who doesnt rely too much on athleticism.

I think if he has a poor shooting year and plays mostly off the bench because we keep Demar or just because he's not playing well. Then, he'll be an MLE player at best next year.

No he wont. His agent will just blame Bulls for missmanagement of his client. Publicly if he needs too. His agent will quote 3 years in OKC before for Giddey's improvements. Bad Bulls roster construction and will say how many young players improved after they left Bulls and Giddey will still get 20M+.

IDK, my claim was based on the assumption that like most years, there won't be too many teams with real cap space, and therefore getting an offer sheet may be really hard if he has a poor year. Bulls can always play hard ball like they've done with various guys over the years.

[CROBulls]

These things are so easy to say when it’s not your money at risk.

Its not because I actually have somewhat experience in this.

Spoiler:

It was settlement for me. And had basically agent/lawyer on provision working for me. As solid and good advisor. And basically I wanted more than offered, required double. Got what I wanted. Good for me,good for my lawyer. At the end it's always your call to get what you want as client.

You just need to have good agent who is in good circles and can predict somewhat market. In NBA little more easier than real life.

[Lotty8989]

https://www.youtube.com/live/zM6iaZptkKM?si=jfi6SitKYfQ9VKCX

[MrSparkle]

I mean... if there's a reason to keep Giddey after this season, it's because he played well as the primary playmaker, and therefore he will probably seek the full max. I wouldn't expect a "bargain" like 100/4 unless his numbers stink, in which case we all might be feeling more confused about the future, and try to figure out why everybody except Demar plays their worst basketball for Donovan.

[Dan Z]

This is not particular to Giddey, but I always think this is funny, because there is always a reason to sign now. Generational wealth vs even a small chance of not having generational wealth. NBA players are generally a very high risk taking group with their contracts though and few take meaningful discounts to sign early.

If Giddey got even injury which would take him out half a season, he would still get max extension. Anything short Lonzo's knees/Brandon Roy knees (even then remember Bulls gave Lonzo a deal) or anything short from breaking MCL/ACL whatever, he is still getting long term 20M+ deal. Even if he signs one year deal and he proves later that he can play, with exploding cap space he is again getting 20M+ per year.

Yeah. It's generational wealth, but for 98% of us. He made to NBA and its time to get a bag. He is not Isaiah Thomas. He is for god sake 6'8 point guard who doesnt rely too much on athleticism.

These things are so easy to say when it’s not your money at risk.

Giddey has already made 18.8 million for his career. This year it's another 8.3 million. I know there are agent cuts and taxes, but if he was smart with his money he's already set for life. I also didn't include any endorsements and other earnings that aren't from his NBA contract.

[WindyCityBorn]

I don't mind the deal. Giddey wasn't good enough to take the ball out of SGA's hands. He won't have that problem here playing a point forward role. The only thing I dislike about this deal is that we traded our Lavine sweetener. Teams will be willing to take on Lavine's contract, but it's going to take more than just Lavine. Will AK use Ayo as the new sweetener, are teams going to be interested.

More likely that LaVine isn’t traded at all than package Ayo or Coby just to move him. Now that DeRozan is probably gone(and rightfully so) I think the urgency to trade Zach might lessen a bit.