Wendell Carter Jr - The Block Panther Edition

[lostikka_FIN]

Most of the people come here whining after the draft and disappear until next draft. When they do it again. If those people would actually follow college baskerball or NBA more closely, they would get why Bulls took the best player on board. When they hear Billups comparing Carter to Boozer, only comment is ”They drafted a bust, fire GarPax”. I don’t really care, just sayin.. luckily there are lota of people on this forum who actually know what they are speaking of. Thanks for you guys, it makes me come back here to read/discuss.


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[coldfish]

There's definitely no video. You're thinking of someone else. Even guys like Dwight Howard and DeAndre Jordan don't have 39" verts.

All it takes is two secs to Google. Lol

I actually did and it didn't show up at all.

I googled it too and it didn't come up. That's why I didn't link it. No big deal.

I agree that he doesn't show that in games. My point was that if this was some random person from a small school, people would be hyping that link to all hell. The fact that many people have seen him play many games and know that he doesn't play like that, kills it. You are kind of making my point.

As I noted before, I get the question marks around WCJ. I just think that the other people in the draft also have question marks. Like Bamba. That guy was getting mad hype and I personally see rather high bust potential with him.

[navdeep_singh]

I’m happy with this pick, as well as the other pick. I am very curious to see what kind of synergy he can develop with Markk.How fluid they can be in terms of playing off each other, and their ability to interchange in terms of playing on the lower block and play as a spread 4. Level of fluidity creates difficulty in terms of not being able to predict for the defense.

[coldfish]

Any conversation about Carter starts and ends with how he plays and how he impacts Lauri. My problem with Carter is not so much him but what he does to the rest of the team around him, mostly Lauri offensively and how well he helps the team defensively as the last line of defense.

I see a lot of “Carter does this and that individually” but basketball is a team sport and unless you’re a top flight star, the biggest thing is what you do to your teammates and the team game and not your own production.

Personally, I think the balance on offense is very good. Porter obviously has no issues deferring, is a willing passer, can play high low in either role with another big and can hit open outside shots to pull his man out of the middle. Not exactly perfect because the perfect guy would be a superstar ball handling big but a pretty good fit.

He is also a willing pick setter and big body. Not exactly a great roll guy but I think he can hold his man out by playing pick and pop. If Dunn and Lavine attack the basket off picks it will work well.

Team defense is a positive. He is an aware and willing help defender.

Defense, one on one is kind of a different story. The positive is that he can handle post players. A 250lb 19 year old is not going to get pushed around. We don't have to worry about Lauri getting stuck grinding against big bodies in the post. He also seems like a willing and physical rebounder.

The big concern I have with the two of them is perimeter defense. Switches and pick and roll might kill them. This is not a small concern. Thibodeau was able to hide Boozer because he had Noah but sheesh, this could get ugly if the two of them don't improve in guarding players around the perimeter.

[Leslie Forman]

All it takes is two secs to Google. Lol

I actually did and it didn't show up at all.

I googled it too and it didn't come up. That's why I didn't link it. No big deal.

I agree that he doesn't show that in games. My point was that if this was some random person from a small school, people would be hyping that link to all hell. The fact that many people have seen him play many games and know that he doesn't play like that, kills it. You are kind of making my point.

As I noted before, I get the question marks around WCJ. I just think that the other people in the draft also have question marks. Like Bamba. That guy was getting mad hype and I personally see rather high bust potential with him.

But what proof is there of this? Wouldn't, say, Hassan Whiteside have been hyped up to hell then? I find it hard to believe that if you stuck Wendell Carter on Northern Illinois or something that he'd somehow be more hyped.

If anything, it seems that high school ranking is basically the biggest common denominator in attracting draft hype.

[coldfish]

I actually did and it didn't show up at all.

I googled it too and it didn't come up. That's why I didn't link it. No big deal.

I agree that he doesn't show that in games. My point was that if this was some random person from a small school, people would be hyping that link to all hell. The fact that many people have seen him play many games and know that he doesn't play like that, kills it. You are kind of making my point.

As I noted before, I get the question marks around WCJ. I just think that the other people in the draft also have question marks. Like Bamba. That guy was getting mad hype and I personally see rather high bust potential with him.

But what proof is there of this? Wouldn't, say, Hassan Whiteside have been hyped up to hell then? I find it hard to believe that if you stuck Wendell Carter on Northern Illinois or something that he'd somehow be more hyped.

If anything, it seems that high school ranking is basically the biggest common denominator in attracting draft hype.

Good point about the high school ranking.

I really don't have any proof. It was just an opinion based on what I have seen over the years. Solid players from big schools often get downplayed whereas high flying players with less exposure get more hype, despite not having fundamental skills. That's been my observation.

[Leslie Forman]

I googled it too and it didn't come up. That's why I didn't link it. No big deal.

I agree that he doesn't show that in games. My point was that if this was some random person from a small school, people would be hyping that link to all hell. The fact that many people have seen him play many games and know that he doesn't play like that, kills it. You are kind of making my point.

As I noted before, I get the question marks around WCJ. I just think that the other people in the draft also have question marks. Like Bamba. That guy was getting mad hype and I personally see rather high bust potential with him.

But what proof is there of this? Wouldn't, say, Hassan Whiteside have been hyped up to hell then? I find it hard to believe that if you stuck Wendell Carter on Northern Illinois or something that he'd somehow be more hyped.

If anything, it seems that high school ranking is basically the biggest common denominator in attracting draft hype.

Good point about the high school ranking.

I really don't have any proof. It was just an opinion based on what I have seen over the years. Solid players from big schools often get downplayed whereas high flying players with less exposure get more hype, despite not having fundamental skills. That's been my observation.

I'm not sure what made you think that, because if anything, whenever there's some small program player making waves, there's always immediately a ton of skepticism about them playing against cupcakes.

Considering how Carter is a defensive dinosaur with a well-rounded but not particularly special offensive skillset, I'm not sure how he could have been hyped up any more than he was. Every other big man ahead of him went under just as much scrutiny. That one game against Buffalo you'd think would've killed Ayton's rep, but nope.

Hell Nick Ward is on Michigan State and putting up even better numbers and people think he's not even draft pick worthy.

[Red Larrivee]

It appears to me WCJ is more athletic than given credit for because his game doesn’t rely on athleticism. Elite? No, but I see a more than capable athlete.

This is accurate. Carter simply has enough athleticism where he's not at a disadvantage. He can play above the rim and is a very good finisher at the rim (70.2 FG% which covers 55.8% of his total offense).

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[JimmyJammer]

This video tells me everything I need to know about Wendell Carter, job well done. The conclusion is Wendell Carter is the most complete big and will be the best big man in the draft when all is said and done. Unlike Bagley, he can use both hands, quite a better defender, and he is already very strong and physical. Unlike Jackson, he is an excellent rebounder, stronger and he already knows how to stay out of foul trouble. Unlike Ayton, he can defend in the post and he does not suffer from a lack of drive. Unlike Bamba, he really has an offensive game and he is way stronger. There is no way he can fail because there are so many things that he does well already that will translate. He is a workhorse on the glass; he is physical and punishes little men; he has excellent footsteps in the post and facing up on the perimeter; he has textbook stroke for a big man. Summerleague will definitely be interesting.

Watch on YouTube

[realEAST]

Any conversation about Carter starts and ends with how he plays and how he impacts Lauri. My problem with Carter is not so much him but what he does to the rest of the team around him, mostly Lauri offensively and how well he helps the team defensively as the last line of defense.

I see a lot of “Carter does this and that individually” but basketball is a team sport and unless you’re a top flight star, the biggest thing is what you do to your teammates and the team game and not your own production.

Personally, I think the balance on offense is very good. Porter obviously has no issues deferring, is a willing passer, can play high low in either role with another big and can hit open outside shots to pull his man out of the middle. Not exactly perfect because the perfect guy would be a superstar ball handling big but a pretty good fit.

He is also a willing pick setter and big body. Not exactly a great roll guy but I think he can hold his man out by playing pick and pop. If Dunn and Lavine attack the basket off picks it will work well.

Team defense is a positive. He is an aware and willing help defender.

Defense, one on one is kind of a different story. The positive is that he can handle post players. A 250lb 19 year old is not going to get pushed around. We don't have to worry about Lauri getting stuck grinding against big bodies in the post. He also seems like a willing and physical rebounder.

The big concern I have with the two of them is perimeter defense. Switches and pick and roll might kill them. This is not a small concern. Thibodeau was able to hide Boozer because he had Noah but sheesh, this could get ugly if the two of them don't improve in guarding players around the perimeter.

This last part, along our backcourt that I don't think is on a level commonly depicted, is the reason I think we are up for another high pick next year, unless we make some unnecessary splah in FA.

Not saying they won't improve, but it will take time for all of it to come together on team level, and I don't think Bulls will be that good as soon as next season.

[Red Larrivee]

I think this is the best read you'll find on Carter's mobility:
https://www.thestepien.com/2018/06/11/wendell-carter-quick-enough-todays-nba/

It has a lot of video examples and points out something that can be correctable long-term for his defense in space:

Carter doesn’t necessarily have slow feet; rather, he sometimes plays with bad technique that makes it appear as though he is much less nimble than he is. Both on offense and defense, he finds himself on his heels far too often, which greatly limits his ability to quickly react and generate power. When he’s on his toes, he looks like a completely different player.

Just by looking at his perimeter defense, we see that Carter has the requisite dimensions and quickness to offer some switchability as long as his technique is correct. His struggles are usually traced back to his physical limitations, but I would argue that they are more due to his tendency to stay on his heels, play upright, and leave his hands down. This is a positive for Carter, as it’s easier to improve technique than natural quickness. Known for his smarts and attention to detail off the court, it isn’t difficult to imagine Carter making strides in this area early in his career. That said, Carter won’t just be defending on the perimeter in switch situations; he’ll also have to contain pick-and-rolls and pick-and-pops. Can he succeed there?

Every big man in the 2018 class is going to have to improve cerebrally on defense (yes, even Jaren Jackson Jr.), so Carter’s mental mistakes aren’t a unique point against him. However, he has a better starting point in terms of IQ than any big besides Jackson Jr., which gives him a higher floor and more opportunity to focus on improving other parts of his game. His mobility isn’t going to wow anyone, but it’s not the big wart that it’s made out to be. He’s quick enough to be useful–on both ends of the floor–so long as he is using the proper technique to maximize his tools. Carter doesn’t really have any holes in his game, and that is a big part of why he will be the second-highest-rated big on my final big board. It’s hard to see the usefulness of a player like Horford and not get excited about the potential for Carter to fill a similarly impactful role as a heady, do-everything big man. He’s no Capela, but I feel confident saying that Carter should do just fine defending the perimeter in the NBA.

[coldfish]

Any conversation about Carter starts and ends with how he plays and how he impacts Lauri. My problem with Carter is not so much him but what he does to the rest of the team around him, mostly Lauri offensively and how well he helps the team defensively as the last line of defense.

I see a lot of “Carter does this and that individually” but basketball is a team sport and unless you’re a top flight star, the biggest thing is what you do to your teammates and the team game and not your own production.

Personally, I think the balance on offense is very good. Porter obviously has no issues deferring, is a willing passer, can play high low in either role with another big and can hit open outside shots to pull his man out of the middle. Not exactly perfect because the perfect guy would be a superstar ball handling big but a pretty good fit.

He is also a willing pick setter and big body. Not exactly a great roll guy but I think he can hold his man out by playing pick and pop. If Dunn and Lavine attack the basket off picks it will work well.

Team defense is a positive. He is an aware and willing help defender.

Defense, one on one is kind of a different story. The positive is that he can handle post players. A 250lb 19 year old is not going to get pushed around. We don't have to worry about Lauri getting stuck grinding against big bodies in the post. He also seems like a willing and physical rebounder.

The big concern I have with the two of them is perimeter defense. Switches and pick and roll might kill them. This is not a small concern. Thibodeau was able to hide Boozer because he had Noah but sheesh, this could get ugly if the two of them don't improve in guarding players around the perimeter.

This last part, along our backcourt that I don't think is on a level commonly depicted, is the reason I think we are up for another high pick next year, unless we make some unnecessary splah in FA.

Not saying they won't improve, but it will take time for all of it to come together on team level, and I don't think Bulls will be that good as soon as next season.

I tend to agree. I like the picks and the direction of the franchise, but as long as they don't do something stupid in FA, I think the Bulls will miss the playoffs and get another lottery pick.

[bad knees]

Any conversation about Carter starts and ends with how he plays and how he impacts Lauri. My problem with Carter is not so much him but what he does to the rest of the team around him, mostly Lauri offensively and how well he helps the team defensively as the last line of defense.

I see a lot of “Carter does this and that individually” but basketball is a team sport and unless you’re a top flight star, the biggest thing is what you do to your teammates and the team game and not your own production.

Personally, I think the balance on offense is very good. Porter obviously has no issues deferring, is a willing passer, can play high low in either role with another big and can hit open outside shots to pull his man out of the middle. Not exactly perfect because the perfect guy would be a superstar ball handling big but a pretty good fit.

He is also a willing pick setter and big body. Not exactly a great roll guy but I think he can hold his man out by playing pick and pop. If Dunn and Lavine attack the basket off picks it will work well.

Team defense is a positive. He is an aware and willing help defender.

Defense, one on one is kind of a different story. The positive is that he can handle post players. A 250lb 19 year old is not going to get pushed around. We don't have to worry about Lauri getting stuck grinding against big bodies in the post. He also seems like a willing and physical rebounder.

The big concern I have with the two of them is perimeter defense. Switches and pick and roll might kill them. This is not a small concern. Thibodeau was able to hide Boozer because he had Noah but sheesh, this could get ugly if the two of them don't improve in guarding players around the perimeter.

It’s going to be on Lauri to defend the small ball 4’s. Of the two, WCJ is the C and the better rim protector. We’ll see if Lauri is up to the task.


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[BullsFTW]

Draymond Green was dubbed slow and unathletic coming out Michigan St. A cerebral player who played in a great system. He got in better shape and improved his defensive techniques. Six years later, he's considered one of the best if not the best defender in the NBA. If Draymond can make that dramatic improvement, then Wendell can become a respectable defender in the perimeter. He has the physical profile and the IQ to be a complete defender.

[realEAST]

Personally, I think the balance on offense is very good. Porter obviously has no issues deferring, is a willing passer, can play high low in either role with another big and can hit open outside shots to pull his man out of the middle. Not exactly perfect because the perfect guy would be a superstar ball handling big but a pretty good fit.

He is also a willing pick setter and big body. Not exactly a great roll guy but I think he can hold his man out by playing pick and pop. If Dunn and Lavine attack the basket off picks it will work well.

Team defense is a positive. He is an aware and willing help defender.

Defense, one on one is kind of a different story. The positive is that he can handle post players. A 250lb 19 year old is not going to get pushed around. We don't have to worry about Lauri getting stuck grinding against big bodies in the post. He also seems like a willing and physical rebounder.

The big concern I have with the two of them is perimeter defense. Switches and pick and roll might kill them. This is not a small concern. Thibodeau was able to hide Boozer because he had Noah but sheesh, this could get ugly if the two of them don't improve in guarding players around the perimeter.

This last part, along our backcourt that I don't think is on a level commonly depicted, is the reason I think we are up for another high pick next year, unless we make some unnecessary splah in FA.

Not saying they won't improve, but it will take time for all of it to come together on team level, and I don't think Bulls will be that good as soon as next season.

I tend to agree. I like the picks and the direction of the franchise, but as long as they don't do something stupid in FA, I think the Bulls will miss the playoffs and get another lottery pick.

Which isn't the bad thing as long as youngsters play and develop - I was/am pro tank, but it was frustrating to see Markkanen getting pulled out of games early. Those are the things I don't approve nor like to see.

I like that we mostly have good character guys and have healthy base for building the team in that regard. LaVine could use a reality check, though, but maybe it is coming as soon as this summer.

[Ralphb07]

All it takes is two secs to Google. Lol

I actually did and it didn't show up at all.

I googled it too and it didn't come up. That's why I didn't link it. No big deal.

I agree that he doesn't show that in games. My point was that if this was some random person from a small school, people would be hyping that link to all hell. The fact that many people have seen him play many games and know that he doesn't play like that, kills it. You are kind of making my point.

As I noted before, I get the question marks around WCJ. I just think that the other people in the draft also have question marks. Like Bamba. That guy was getting mad hype and I personally see rather high bust potential with him.

Coldfish I do have a question for you but let me first state that Bamba and JJJ are both more athletic, but do you think because Carter is more fundamentally advanced that he doesn't try to get by with pure athleticism only?

[BullsFTW]

Any conversation about Carter starts and ends with how he plays and how he impacts Lauri. My problem with Carter is not so much him but what he does to the rest of the team around him, mostly Lauri offensively and how well he helps the team defensively as the last line of defense.

I see a lot of “Carter does this and that individually” but basketball is a team sport and unless you’re a top flight star, the biggest thing is what you do to your teammates and the team game and not your own production.

Personally, I think the balance on offense is very good. Porter obviously has no issues deferring, is a willing passer, can play high low in either role with another big and can hit open outside shots to pull his man out of the middle. Not exactly perfect because the perfect guy would be a superstar ball handling big but a pretty good fit.

He is also a willing pick setter and big body. Not exactly a great roll guy but I think he can hold his man out by playing pick and pop. If Dunn and Lavine attack the basket off picks it will work well.

Team defense is a positive. He is an aware and willing help defender.

Defense, one on one is kind of a different story. The positive is that he can handle post players. A 250lb 19 year old is not going to get pushed around. We don't have to worry about Lauri getting stuck grinding against big bodies in the post. He also seems like a willing and physical rebounder.

The big concern I have with the two of them is perimeter defense. Switches and pick and roll might kill them. This is not a small concern. Thibodeau was able to hide Boozer because he had Noah but sheesh, this could get ugly if the two of them don't improve in guarding players around the perimeter.

It’s going to be on Lauri to defend the small ball 4’s. Of the two, WCJ is the C and the better rim protector. We’ll see if Lauri is up to the task.


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Lauri is fairly quick, and I think he can guard small ball 4's in certain match ups.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Defense, one on one is kind of a different story. The positive is that he can handle post players. A 250lb 19 year old is not going to get pushed around. We don't have to worry about Lauri getting stuck grinding against big bodies in the post. He also seems like a willing and physical rebounder.

The big concern I have with the two of them is perimeter defense. Switches and pick and roll might kill them. This is not a small concern. Thibodeau was able to hide Boozer because he had Noah but sheesh, this could get ugly if the two of them don't improve in guarding players around the perimeter.

Essenstially you have to think of it like this...

What the Bulls are hoping for, is that Wendell Carter Jr is Bobby Portis with great defense. And Bobby Portis with great defense would be a heck of a player.

My take is that the front office likes Portis but doesnt naturally fit with us long term with Lauri because he isnt a center. If Portis were a shot bocker or could hold it down defensively he wuold be fine.

I do think Bobby will be trade bait in the same way Niko was last year.

[JimmyJammer]

Defense, one on one is kind of a different story. The positive is that he can handle post players. A 250lb 19 year old is not going to get pushed around. We don't have to worry about Lauri getting stuck grinding against big bodies in the post. He also seems like a willing and physical rebounder.

The big concern I have with the two of them is perimeter defense. Switches and pick and roll might kill them. This is not a small concern. Thibodeau was able to hide Boozer because he had Noah but sheesh, this could get ugly if the two of them don't improve in guarding players around the perimeter.

Essenstially you have to think of it like this...

What the Bulls are hoping for, is that Wendell Carter Jr is Bobby Portis with great defense. And Bobby Portis with great defense would be a heck of a player.

My take is that the front office likes Portis but doesnt naturally fit with us long term with Lauri because he isnt a center. If Portis were a shot bocker or could hold it down defensively he wuold be fine.

I do think Bobby will be trade bait in the same way Niko was last year.

Switching and perimeter defense might be a problem for Carter or not, but Lauri has some of the quickest footsteps you will find in a big man. I was actually surprised to see how he is able to stick with perimeter players, and I remember him embarrassing Stephen Curry on an isolation play once. Aaron Gordon learned pretty quickly that you don't isolate against Lauri because you will get embarrassed. He tried that nonsense the first time Orlando played Chicago last season, but he got owned. I think we'll be fine. Btw, will Lauri play in the Summerleague?

[bennjuiced34]

I think this is the best read you'll find on Carter's mobility:
https://www.thestepien.com/2018/06/11/wendell-carter-quick-enough-todays-nba/

It has a lot of video examples and points out something that can be correctable long-term for his defense in space:

Carter doesn’t necessarily have slow feet; rather, he sometimes plays with bad technique that makes it appear as though he is much less nimble than he is. Both on offense and defense, he finds himself on his heels far too often, which greatly limits his ability to quickly react and generate power. When he’s on his toes, he looks like a completely different player.

Just by looking at his perimeter defense, we see that Carter has the requisite dimensions and quickness to offer some switchability as long as his technique is correct. His struggles are usually traced back to his physical limitations, but I would argue that they are more due to his tendency to stay on his heels, play upright, and leave his hands down. This is a positive for Carter, as it’s easier to improve technique than natural quickness. Known for his smarts and attention to detail off the court, it isn’t difficult to imagine Carter making strides in this area early in his career. That said, Carter won’t just be defending on the perimeter in switch situations; he’ll also have to contain pick-and-rolls and pick-and-pops. Can he succeed there?

Every big man in the 2018 class is going to have to improve cerebrally on defense (yes, even Jaren Jackson Jr.), so Carter’s mental mistakes aren’t a unique point against him. However, he has a better starting point in terms of IQ than any big besides Jackson Jr., which gives him a higher floor and more opportunity to focus on improving other parts of his game. His mobility isn’t going to wow anyone, but it’s not the big wart that it’s made out to be. He’s quick enough to be useful–on both ends of the floor–so long as he is using the proper technique to maximize his tools. Carter doesn’t really have any holes in his game, and that is a big part of why he will be the second-highest-rated big on my final big board. It’s hard to see the usefulness of a player like Horford and not get excited about the potential for Carter to fill a similarly impactful role as a heady, do-everything big man. He’s no Capela, but I feel confident saying that Carter should do just fine defending the perimeter in the NBA.

Nice find Red. I remember concerns about Markkanen's lateral mobility coming out and articles saying it was more technique than ability.

It's not like Carter is some stiff. He's pretty damn athletic. Not sure he'll ever be a 'plus' perimeter defender but I'm confident it won't be a concern.