Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks)

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I don’t want to give up one 1st for Lonzo let alone the two NOP’s reportedly asking for. And I’m a Lonzo believer.

Bottom line, I expect this to be an outrageously pricey deadline to be a buyer and that the Bulls will sell one or two pieces instead.

[TheStig]

He has athletic limitations and isn't great at making plays off the dribble. He's good at pushing the pace and making plays in transition. I actually think Sato might be a better half court playmaker, but I can't say I've watched enough Lonzo to really have a definitive view on that.

Doug, this is silly. Why would we offer Sato and a 2nd to get a RFA if he's the worse player? Ball is a better player than Sato and has room to grow. He's not Steph Curry and that's why he's available.

For me, the two 2nd rounders we're offering are because Lonzo has more potential than Sato. I'd agree with that, but as of today, I'm with Doug to where I don't believe Lonzo is a better overall player than Sato. They are both role players with gaps in their games, but Lonzo is younger and certainly showed very good playmaking ability in college (just not so much in the NBA).

I don't think Sato is better. I've seen nothing to show that. Ball is clearly the better player imho. He's a legit starter.

[dougthonus]

Doug, this is silly. Why would we offer Sato and a 2nd to get a RFA if he's the worse player? Ball is a better player than Sato and has room to grow. He's not Steph Curry and that's why he's available.

I didn't say Sato was a better player. I said I believe Sato is a better half court playmaker. Lonzo's a better defender and more offensively gifted, more athletic, and better in transition.

The fact that we offered a 2nd rounder and an average player for Lonzo also shows how much better Lonzo is perceived by us to be than Sato.

[dougthonus]

I don’t want to give up one 1st for Lonzo let alone the two NOP’s reportedly asking for. And I’m a Lonzo believer.

Bottom line, I expect this to be an outrageously pricey deadline to be a buyer and that the Bulls will sell one or two pieces instead.

I don't think anyone will give up 2 1sts for Lonzo. NOP might be greedy enough to ask because of all the crazy lopsided trades that have happened, but they are faced with losing him for nothing, paying him (which they reportedly don't want to do), or taking the best offer.

The idea that they're playing hard ball is fine, but it is only meaningful if someone wants Lonzo bad enough to make that happen which seems awfully unlikely. They'll either bend and take whatever the best offer on the table is or go into RFA with him where the most likely result is that he leaves with no compensation for them. Odds are they will take whatever the best offer is. I hope the Bulls do the same with Lauri, even if the best offer was the equivalent of a good rotational 4 and a couple 2nd rounders.

[TheStig]

Doug, this is silly. Why would we offer Sato and a 2nd to get a RFA if he's the worse player? Ball is a better player than Sato and has room to grow. He's not Steph Curry and that's why he's available.

I didn't say Sato was a better player. I said I believe Sato is a better half court playmaker. Lonzo's a better defender and more offensively gifted, more athletic, and better in transition.

The fact that we offered a 2nd rounder and an average player for Lonzo also shows how much better Lonzo is perceived by us to be than Sato.

And I happen to think all those attributes are worth 20 mill a year in a young player who is still improving. I also don't know that I'd take Sato in the half court. He hasn't really been able to show his talents. He plays off the ball with Ingram and Zion/Bron. I think he'd make an immediate impact here.

[dougthonus]

And I happen to think all those attributes are worth 20 mill a year in a young player who is still improving. I also don't know that I'd take Sato in the half court. He hasn't really been able to show his talents. He plays off the ball with Ingram and Zion/Bron. I think he'd make an immediate impact here.

What a player is worth is pretty tricky. In the end, you need to construct a team, and the "worth" is pretty different relative to your situation. Does Lonzo on the Bulls at 20 million prevent them from doing something else special? Sort of. It prevents them from trying to lure a pair of superstars with two max contract slots at some point during his contract. Our odds of being in that situation and two stars being available are pretty slim, so that's a pretty small amount to give up.

It probably limits how much we can spend on other players. How meaningful is that? I'm not sure.

What I can say is a team built around allocating 80 out of 120 million to Zach, Lauri, and Lonzo, which is a pretty realistic scenario if we acquire Lonzo, isn't very appealing to me in terms of ever building out a winner. It still might work if Pat Williams and some other player became stars and ownership would pay the tax, but that core of players looks like a middling group.

Of the 3 people in that equation, the only one I feel pretty comfortable with is Zach on his deal. You could talk me into Lonzo/Lauri at around 20m if I squint real hard, but you also risk that either one just gets offered the max and you have to match it or let them walk, similar to D'Angelo Russell. Given the lack of quality options this off-season, I wouldn't find that surprising at all for either guy and would view keeping either a pretty bad outcome at those prices.

Generally, non-max, above MLE FAs always make way more than I would want to pay them, so I assume that will be the case for both these guys. It's like one of those things where that group of player, regardless of who it is, is typically a very bad investment.

[TheStig]

And I happen to think all those attributes are worth 20 mill a year in a young player who is still improving. I also don't know that I'd take Sato in the half court. He hasn't really been able to show his talents. He plays off the ball with Ingram and Zion/Bron. I think he'd make an immediate impact here.

What a player is worth is pretty tricky. In the end, you need to construct a team, and the "worth" is pretty different relative to your situation. Does Lonzo on the Bulls at 20 million prevent them from doing something else special? Sort of. It prevents them from trying to lure a pair of superstars with two max contract slots at some point during his contract. Our odds of being in that situation and two stars being available are pretty slim, so that's a pretty small amount to give up.

It probably limits how much we can spend on other players. How meaningful is that? I'm not sure.

What I can say is a team built around allocating 80 out of 120 million to Zach, Lauri, and Lonzo, which is a pretty realistic scenario if we acquire Lonzo, isn't very appealing to me in terms of ever building out a winner. It still might work if Pat Williams and some other player became stars and ownership would pay the tax, but that core of players looks like a middling group.

Of the 3 people in that equation, the only one I feel pretty comfortable with is Zach on his deal. You could talk me into Lonzo/Lauri at around 20m if I squint real hard, but you also risk that either one just gets offered the max and you have to match it or let them walk, similar to D'Angelo Russell. Given the lack of quality options this off-season, I wouldn't find that surprising at all for either guy and would view keeping either a pretty bad outcome at those prices.

Generally, non-max, above MLE FAs always make way more than I would want to pay them, so I assume that will be the case for both these guys. It's like one of those things where that group of player, regardless of who it is, is typically a very bad investment.

Who are these max FA's we're going to sign in the next year or two? There is no one on the market. And Lonzo at 20 is still very tradable imho.

I also don't think Lauri will be around. So I think you can build a team around Lavine and Lonzo and try to figure out the rest. It seems we're keen on getting better and not rebuilding. Personally, I'd sell off everyone and gain assets to rebuild. Lonzo is the kind of young 2 way player that you get that can make a winning impact and improve.

[BullChit]

Would we have been happy if Kris Dunn could hit 3s at a decent clip?

Lonzo is trending that way and is young enough to slot into our core.

We don't need a star at the PG position we need defence, 3pt shooting and low turnovers... We also need to solidify the position for the future and I believe that's what AK believes Lonzo is.

Solid defence
Size
3pt threat
Low turnovers
Great in transition which fits with our higher pace (at least from the start of the season not sure what our pace is now.)

You lock in a young PG who can defend, initiate at pace and controls the ball and hit a respectable 3.
You have the all star scoring machine at SG in Zach
P.Will at the 3 with tonnes of 2 way potential and heaps of youth.

Targets for AKME:
A point forward player like Thad to help initiate in the half court. (Could we imagine a player like Julius Randle)
Defensive anchor at Centre to back up the defence that Lonzo would give at the Point.

Fill the bench with high IQ vets and specialists.

Is it perfect or a guaranteed home run NO (Personally I'd prefer Brogdon but that ain't gonna happen)

But at least it's a direction... When rebuilding there needs to be an actual direction and decision made to move forward.

[fleet]

Read on Twitter

Too much buzz around the Knicks, now reported to be offering Robinson. They seem most thirsty.

[weneeda2guard]

No way the pelicans get 2 picks for lonzo unless it's 2nd rd picks.

[chefo]

Guys, come on. This is negotiations 101. Your opening salvo is just to test the waters and see if anybody is dumb enough to bite.

They're asking for 2 1sts. We're offerings 2 2nds. It will end up being a 1st and a 2nd, if our FO want him that badly. Maybe they'll flip Sato for a late 1st to get it done. But nobody is giving NO a potential lottery pick for an RFA Lonzo.

[Chi town]

I see a team like the Knicks overpaying.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

I like the Ball and Thibs pairing.

[Ccwatercraft]

I don't see how a 4/80 deal for Ball comes back to bite you in the butt. He's young, athletic, 2 way player, can shoot, defend, create a little and has excellent vision. I think that's the kind of guy you would want to bring in. He'll have an immediate impact and help you win. He'll continue to improve throughout the deal and he'll come in and fill one of our biggest needs. Our pg play sucks and we have soooo many turnovers.

I think you'll see a huge impact bringing him in. We have no real 2 way players. He's a guy you can throw out there for 32mpg and get good minutes.

Yeah, just not sure he's really much more of a playmaker than Satoransky is and I don't trust his shooting, though it has been fine for two years.

I think he's played with a lot of ball dominant guys. It's hard to create when you have Bron/Ingram or Ingram/Zion getting all the touches. But he can do it on a higher level and is better than Sato. I think he'd be great pushing the tempo for these guys and finding open looks. Zach isn't a huge ball stopper and would look even better off the ball at times.

Ball/sato/arci would solve the PG problem IMO, so I would be thrilled if sato stuck around.

[BullChit]

I like the Ball and Thibs pairing.

Don't you put that evil out in the world!!!

Sent from my CPH1979 using Tapatalk

[TheHrvReport]

Pelicans have to be joking asking for a young player plus a first round pick for Lonzo, right?

[Grodoboldo]

Read on Twitter

Too much buzz around the Knicks, now reported to be offering Robinson. They seem most thirsty.

I don't think we can beat this offer, if it's really on the table.

[Chi town]

Will be hilarious when someone trades for Lonzo and then he stays on the DNP w his hip.

[Chi town]

Read on Twitter

Too much buzz around the Knicks, now reported to be offering Robinson. They seem most thirsty.

I don't think we can beat this offer, if it's really on the table.

Why would Pels want Robinson?

We can trade them WCJ if so.

[The Box Office]

2 first rounders for Lonzo Ball? No thanks. Whoever is offering that can have Lonzo.