Potential Zach Trade Partners? 24/25 Edition

[Ben Wilson25]

I’m all for keeping Zach and rehabbing his trade value. I think his skill set is a really good fit with the current roster and 25/5/5 on 40%+ from 3 is realistic which should bring something nice at the deadline from a contender looking to go all in. On the other hand, I’d hate to repeat the Nikola Mirotic mistake and have Zach go on a heater landing us at #12 and losing our pick. It’s a tightrope.

[drosestruts]

Don't worry - on the nights when Zach looks like an absolute star you can always bank on his teammates not showing up at all, and the moutbreathers then blaming it on Zach.

Like when he dropped 50 against Detroit and we lost. So much hate directed towards Zach after that game.

When the hate should have been directed at Coby and Pat combining for 0 points. Or the bench shooting a combined 8-29

A lot of people sucked that game - Zach was not one of them.

[Stratmaster]

The Bulls really haven't done anything to Zach. So I don't understand what they have to do beyond keep paying him his money. He pouted about his role on the team. He's the guy making so much money he can't be traded. He's played subpar in important situations the last two seasons. He requested a trade and they tried to trade him. This narrative the Bulls need to make it up to Zach is bull. Stop coddling these millionaire babies. AK saying nice things isn't going to change the perception that Lavine is a loser. Only he can change that - by contributing to winning.

Lavine didn't ask to be traded.

The Bulls had been actively trying to trade him and even stated "we want to see what the team looks like without Zach Lavine". Whether you consider that "doing something to Zach" is up to you. But your description is a made up narrative. He wasn't wanted here any more by the head coach, or the front office.

Zach absolutely made it known he wanted to be traded at the beginning of last season. If we can't agree on that, no point of arguing.

Show me the report. Again, it has been reported twice just recently by KC Johnson that Zach never asked to be traded. I explained it in my post right before the one you commented on. You are right, if we can't agree that sourced reports are what we are going to go by instead of fan scapegoating, there is no point in "discussing".

[jnrjr79]

There are two fundamental elements, and I am splitting them out:

Element #1: Zach believed the surgery was the best course of action.

This speaks to the desire to have the surgery at some point in time. It isn't discussing timing, just that he would not get a surgery that has a long recovery window if he didn't think it was the best course of action. This doesn't mean it was the only possible course of action and it doesn't speak to whether he could gut it out.

the second element is the timing of the surgery, and I'm speaking to that separately, because I think agreeing to the first element, that people don't undergo surgery to piss other people off is a pretty important objective, easy to draw line in the sand. If someone disagrees with that, and think people make surgical decisions that stop you from living your daily life or walking for like a month out of spite, then I'm just fundamentally on a much different page.

Element #2: Timing of the procedure

Generally, I don't think being on last place Detroit where you have no history is a reason to delay the procedure, and wouldn't be for most people. Going to the Lakers may have been different, but I don't view that as an indictment of Zach. I wouldn't delay a surgery over something I don't want / neutral about, but I might delay one for my dream job.



I agree, but I think this lives next to my point rather than is different. I said generally, you do not put off a surgery unless there is a reason to wait. Playing through the season might be a reason to wait. I agree, one might choose to play through pain or put off a surgery to make it through the season, but if there were no season, you would generally get the thing done as soon as possible. The bar to wait may not be incredibly high, but your default stance is usually to get a surgery done in the first convenient window.

Given Zach already attempted and failed a comeback that feels like a reason for him to have the surgery to me. The point I was discussing (maybe separate from you) was whether he did it to avoid Detroit and that's what made management mad. Detroit's situation was definitely not one that I think a player would typically delay a necessary surgery for.

I think we might be fundamentally in agreement here. I think it's indeed possible Zach elected to have the surgery mid-season, rather than after the season, to avoid being traded to Detroit. Even if he didn't, the FO appears to believe that. As a fan, that decision bums me out, because the Bulls would be better off having completed that trade. But from Zach's perspective, sure, I'm not particularly critical of him trying to avoid ending up in Detroit and he's well within his rights to do what he did. So I don't share the FO's apparent anger about it, even if I wish it would have played out differently. To be this angry, I assume the front office must believe something to the effect of "you asked out, but then you thwarted us when we actually could have moved you." But as best I can tell, the FO was already shopping Zach before Zach's camp expressed openness to being traded, so that sentiment seems a little silly to me.

Zach Lavine didn't ask out. There is not a single report saying he asked to be traded. In fact, all reports say he never actually asked to be traded. The Bulls had been trying to trade him, even going so far as to publicly say "we want to see what this team looks like without Zach Lavine". Zach Lavine simply sent the message up the ladder that he would not resist a trade, and my bet is he said that to try to get some input and leverage over where he might end up.

It was likely "OK, if you want to trade me that's fine. You know the places I would be interested in. I would appreciate it if you try to trade me to one of those places". But that bis admittedly me just guessing. It is what I would have done if I were him. Of course, at that point he had resigned himself to the situation and wanted out.

I don't think this hair-splitting about whether Zach "asked out" vs. "made it known he was fine with being traded" or whatever matters one iota for purposes of this conversation, and I don't know that it's useful to try to guess at what the precise internal communications may have been.

I do not understand why people try to hide behind this semantic distinction of "requested" a trade vs. "openness to being traded." In practical effect, they are the same. And I don't think anyone should be critical of Zach for making a soft trade request - that seems pretty natural when the team has already been shopping you.

As Will Gottlieb said on the Chuggo emergency podcast, this is pretty much as close as it gets to a trade request.

Maybe doing so on this day was because he had his reps in town, with other executives from around the league here as well (and Shams for that matter). Maybe it was because it was the day after another desultory Bulls loss where LaVine was blatantly stat-padding after getting worked defensively much of the competitive portion of the game.

Whatever his reasons, this is what LaVine is doing: expressly bailing on the season eleven games in, after already bailing so not-so-subtly before then with his play and comments to the media.

https://www.blogabull.com/p/zach-lavine-is-asking-out-professionally

That piece might be a little strong but is consistent with reality: Zach wants out and has made it known to the org.

My only real beef with Zach is his apparent inability to get over the fact that Billy benched him one single time when he was having an awful game, but there could be more to that relationship than has been reported in terms of why it is in disrepair.

Ultimately, the FO wants to trade Zach and Zach wants to be traded. What everyone needs to be doing now is behaving like grownups and working toward that goal if they can't find a palatable deal for him this summer (though I still suspect they ultimately might).

[burlydee]

Lavine didn't ask to be traded.

The Bulls had been actively trying to trade him and even stated "we want to see what the team looks like without Zach Lavine". Whether you consider that "doing something to Zach" is up to you. But your description is a made up narrative. He wasn't wanted here any more by the head coach, or the front office.

Zach absolutely made it known he wanted to be traded at the beginning of last season. If we can't agree on that, no point of arguing.

Show me the report. Again, it has been reported twice just recently by KC Johnson that Zach never asked to be traded. I explained it in my post right before the one you commented on. You are right, if we can't agree that sourced reports are what we are going to go by instead of fan scapegoating, there is no point in "discussing".

The Chicago Bulls began to gauge the trade value of two-time All-Star guard Zach LaVine this past offseason, according to league sources familiar with the matter, even offering LaVine to several teams in search of packages that were equivalent to those of recent superstar returns. Now following a 4-8 start to this 2023-24 campaign, Chicago and LaVine share a mutual interest in finding a trade for the athletic scorer, sources confirmed. The Athletic first reported the Bulls’ latest development.

https://sports.yahoo.com/how-the-bulls-situation-with-zach-lavine-is-taking-shape-211644393.html

LaVine, according to multiple sources familiar with his thinking, does not view this Bulls roster as competitive enough to turn any type of contending corner in the East. From the surface, it’s evident Chicago has a dearth of outside shooting — ranking 22nd in the league in 3-point percentage — surrounding a trio of scorers in LaVine, Vučević and DeRozan who have an affinity for operating in the midrange. LaVine, league sources told Yahoo Sports, is also ready to play under a different head coach than Billy Donovan, who signed an extension with the club before the 2022-23 season began.

[b]LaVine desires to play for a winning franchise[/b], although he has drawn plenty of criticism from league personnel regarding his own culpability in Chicago’s losing nature.

When Lavine made his trade request, I was supportive. The Bulls were treading water. They weren't competitive. His assessment of the team was right. The problem is that the Bulls and league view Lavine as a source of the Bulls problems staying competitive. No amount of nice words from AK will change that. He's got to play, and play well, in the role that the team has for him.

[dougthonus]

The Bulls really haven't done anything to Zach. So I don't understand what they have to do beyond keep paying him his money. He pouted about his role on the team. He's the guy making so much money he can't be traded. He's played subpar in important situations the last two seasons. He requested a trade and they tried to trade him. This narrative the Bulls need to make it up to Zach is bull. Stop coddling these millionaire babies. AK saying nice things isn't going to change the perception that Lavine is a loser. Only he can change that - by contributing to winning.

I don't know that's entirely true. The Bulls were shopping him for over a year before he said he was open to a trade (slightly different than requesting one, but for all intents and purposes the same). The Bulls do seem like they have quietly scapegoated Zach at times, and Zach most definitely made way for DeMar to be the man. DeMar even commented that he expected to be second and Zach deferred to him.

Zach was always the most intentional about getting Vuc going early in games as well. This idea that he's selfish doesn't seem remotely true to me. What is true is that he's not an elite ball handler and not a great decision maker at times, but that's very different from the intentionality of "I need to get mine", Zach doesn't seem like that type of guy to me.

The Bulls don't need to "make it up to Zach" as if they've done him a wrong, they are stuck with Zach. Now they need to figure out the best way to mend the relationship. AK isn't going to be on the court. Zach is. They need to get the best out of Zach be it to actually get value out of him or to make him tradeable at a later date. This isn't about "deserves" or "owes" this is about common sense of what management's job is and understanding it. Management can't afford to be emotional and have their panties in a bunch over this and break their nose to spite their face. Zach can. Zach can do whatever he wants and still get paid. Management has intrinsic motivation to fix this situation and take the high ground, because this relationship issue is hurting the product overall.

I use the example of Jerry Krause pissing off Phil Jackson and saying I don't care if you go 82-0 you're not coming back. Jerry Krause thought he was the talent. He didn't think Phil and Michael were the talent, he thought he was equally important. His only job is to keep the best product on the floor, not to seek credit. He can seek credit in a tell all book after he's retired. When you are management, you shield all the other people underneath you, you take the bullets, you swallow your pride if it makes it better for the team.

[Stratmaster]

I think we might be fundamentally in agreement here. I think it's indeed possible Zach elected to have the surgery mid-season, rather than after the season, to avoid being traded to Detroit. Even if he didn't, the FO appears to believe that. As a fan, that decision bums me out, because the Bulls would be better off having completed that trade. But from Zach's perspective, sure, I'm not particularly critical of him trying to avoid ending up in Detroit and he's well within his rights to do what he did. So I don't share the FO's apparent anger about it, even if I wish it would have played out differently. To be this angry, I assume the front office must believe something to the effect of "you asked out, but then you thwarted us when we actually could have moved you." But as best I can tell, the FO was already shopping Zach before Zach's camp expressed openness to being traded, so that sentiment seems a little silly to me.

Zach Lavine didn't ask out. There is not a single report saying he asked to be traded. In fact, all reports say he never actually asked to be traded. The Bulls had been trying to trade him, even going so far as to publicly say "we want to see what this team looks like without Zach Lavine". Zach Lavine simply sent the message up the ladder that he would not resist a trade, and my bet is he said that to try to get some input and leverage over where he might end up.

It was likely "OK, if you want to trade me that's fine. You know the places I would be interested in. I would appreciate it if you try to trade me to one of those places". But that bis admittedly me just guessing. It is what I would have done if I were him. Of course, at that point he had resigned himself to the situation and wanted out.

I don't think this hair-splitting about whether Zach "asked out" vs. "made it known he was fine with being traded" or whatever matters one iota for purposes of this conversation, and I don't know that it's useful to try to guess at what the precise internal communications may have been.

I do not understand why people try to hide behind this semantic distinction of "requested" a trade vs. "openness to being traded." In practical effect, they are the same. And I don't think anyone should be critical of Zach for making a soft trade request - that seems pretty natural when the team has already been shopping you.

As Will Gottlieb said on the Chuggo emergency podcast, this is pretty much as close as it gets to a trade request.

Maybe doing so on this day was because he had his reps in town, with other executives from around the league here as well (and Shams for that matter). Maybe it was because it was the day after another desultory Bulls loss where LaVine was blatantly stat-padding after getting worked defensively much of the competitive portion of the game.

Whatever his reasons, this is what LaVine is doing: expressly bailing on the season eleven games in, after already bailing so not-so-subtly before then with his play and comments to the media.

https://www.blogabull.com/p/zach-lavine-is-asking-out-professionally

That piece might be a little strong but is consistent with reality: Zach wants out and has made it known to the org.

My only real beef with Zach is his apparent inability to get over the fact that Billy benched him one single time when he was having an awful game, but there could be more to that relationship than has been reported in terms of why it is in disrepair.

Ultimately, the FO wants to trade Zach and Zach wants to be traded. What everyone needs to be doing now is behaving like grownups and working toward that goal if they can't find a palatable deal for him this summer (though I still suspect they ultimately might).

I really don't disagree with much that you are saying. But a "Blog-a-bull" internet opinion piece is hardly sourced documentation. With that said, we are saying the same thing. the Bulls were actively trying to get rid of Lavine, and after some time, he said "Fine".

[Stratmaster]

Zach absolutely made it known he wanted to be traded at the beginning of last season. If we can't agree on that, no point of arguing.

Show me the report. Again, it has been reported twice just recently by KC Johnson that Zach never asked to be traded. I explained it in my post right before the one you commented on. You are right, if we can't agree that sourced reports are what we are going to go by instead of fan scapegoating, there is no point in "discussing".

The Chicago Bulls began to gauge the trade value of two-time All-Star guard Zach LaVine this past offseason, according to league sources familiar with the matter, even offering LaVine to several teams in search of packages that were equivalent to those of recent superstar returns. Now following a 4-8 start to this 2023-24 campaign, Chicago and LaVine share a mutual interest in finding a trade for the athletic scorer, sources confirmed. The Athletic first reported the Bulls’ latest development.

https://sports.yahoo.com/how-the-bulls-situation-with-zach-lavine-is-taking-shape-211644393.html

LaVine, according to multiple sources familiar with his thinking, does not view this Bulls roster as competitive enough to turn any type of contending corner in the East. From the surface, it’s evident Chicago has a dearth of outside shooting — ranking 22nd in the league in 3-point percentage — surrounding a trio of scorers in LaVine, Vučević and DeRozan who have an affinity for operating in the midrange. LaVine, league sources told Yahoo Sports, is also ready to play under a different head coach than Billy Donovan, who signed an extension with the club before the 2022-23 season began.

[b]LaVine desires to play for a winning franchise[/b], although he has drawn plenty of criticism from league personnel regarding his own culpability in Chicago’s losing nature.

When Lavine made his trade request, I was supportive. The Bulls were treading water. They weren't competitive. His assessment of the team was right. The problem is that the Bulls and league view Lavine as a source of the Bulls problems staying competitive. No amount of nice words from AK will change that. He's got to play, and play well, in the role that the team has for him.

And again, nowhere in what you posted does it say Lavine requested to be traded. While, as another poster said, it may be splitting hairs, it is very relevant in the context of where we are at now. It doesn't appear he is going anywhere, and this idea that Zach just suddenly said "trade me" sets the exactly wrong context for the situation. The parties involved need to sit down and figure this out, and if we are going to discuss their options and the possible outcome we need to have the correct context.

[burlydee]

The Bulls really haven't done anything to Zach. So I don't understand what they have to do beyond keep paying him his money. He pouted about his role on the team. He's the guy making so much money he can't be traded. He's played subpar in important situations the last two seasons. He requested a trade and they tried to trade him. This narrative the Bulls need to make it up to Zach is bull. Stop coddling these millionaire babies. AK saying nice things isn't going to change the perception that Lavine is a loser. Only he can change that - by contributing to winning.

I don't know that's entirely true. The Bulls were shopping him for over a year before he said he was open to a trade (slightly different than requesting one, but for all intents and purposes the same). The Bulls do seem like they have quietly scapegoated Zach at times, and Zach most definitely made way for DeMar to be the man. DeMar even commented that he expected to be second and Zach deferred to him.

Zach was always the most intentional about getting Vuc going early in games as well. This idea that he's selfish doesn't seem remotely true to me. What is true is that he's not an elite ball handler and not a great decision maker at times, but that's very different from the intentionality of "I need to get mine", Zach doesn't seem like that type of guy to me.

The Bulls don't need to "make it up to Zach" as if they've done him a wrong, they are stuck with Zach. Now they need to figure out the best way to mend the relationship. AK isn't going to be on the court. Zach is. They need to get the best out of Zach be it to actually get value out of him or to make him tradeable at a later date. This isn't about "deserves" or "owes" this is about common sense of what management's job is and understanding it. Management can't afford to be emotional and have their panties in a bunch over this and break their nose to spite their face. Zach can. Zach can do whatever he wants and still get paid. Management has intrinsic motivation to fix this situation and take the high ground, because this relationship issue is hurting the product overall.

I use the example of Jerry Krause pissing off Phil Jackson and saying I don't care if you go 82-0 you're not coming back. Jerry Krause thought he was the talent. He didn't think Phil and Michael were the talent, he thought he was equally important. His only job is to keep the best product on the floor, not to seek credit. He can seek credit in a tell all book after he's retired. When you are management, you shield all the other people underneath you, you take the bullets, you swallow your pride if it makes it better for the team.

Zach made way because Demar is better.

The Bulls have always tried to get the best out of Zach on the court. He's either had the most shots or 2nd most every year. He's started every game he's been healthy. He's paid the most on the team. He's been a top 2 ball handler and 1st or 2nd option in the clutch every year.

It's pretty much up Zach to show up and play. No one is standing in his way.

You guys want to shift blame for Zach's play or perception on to other people. Its not the Bulls fault Lavine tried to pull a minature Harden to start the season. Not their fault he got hurt. Not their fault he's perceived as not his worth his contract around the league. Zach has to play better.

[dougthonus]

Zach made way because Demar is better.

Statistically, this is untrue.

The Bulls have always tried to get the best out of Zach on the court. He's either had the most shots or 2nd most every year. He's started every game he's been healthy. He's paid the most on the team. He's been a top 2 ball handler and 1st or 2nd option in the clutch every year.

Zach has been the best offensive player on the team by volume/efficiency metrics the entire time he's been here, so yeah, that makes sense. Zach has consistently generated really good offense in this role, hence why we paid him so much money and used him in that role, but I agree.

It's pretty much up Zach to show up and play. No one is standing in his way.

Sure, Zach needs to get back on the court and perform. However, I get the impression that Zach isn't excited about being a Chicago Bull, and if his heart isn't in it, you likely aren't going to get the best out of him, and you may then bring other problems into the locker room. You already have a situation now of what do you do with Zach/Coby.

One of the important jobs about management is helping keep the staff motivated to do their best. By all reports, the relationship is fractured. There should be an adult conversation between everyone where they reset, agree that maybe going their separate ways would have been ideal for everyone, but from a practical sense, we couldn't make it happen, and god did we try, so now let's figure out what the best situation is for everyone from here on out and try to move forward.

Management (including Billy in this) could just do nothing about it, but it's far mor likely to be a locker room issue than if they attack it head on and try to figure out a way to get everyone on the same page. Something of the lines like, look we're in this together for this year, let's find a way to start fresh and make the best of it. Start from a place of sincerity and understanding and move from there.

A great thing they should have been doing, but noticeably did not do, was talk about how much they value Zach, how much he has helped the team, and how good he is at every press conference. Instead they left him off and sang praises of literally everyone else on the roster. It was a zero effort thing that has no binding consequence of any type, but helps with some of this type of stuff.

A more savvy GM would have navigated this situation better. That said, our GM is among the dumbest in the league and perhaps the worst at PR. For some extra hilarity, just view the Caruso / Giddey announcements from each team to see what a non moron sounds like next to a moron when discussing the same topic.

[WindyCityBorn]

Zach made way because Demar is better.

Statistically, this is untrue.

The Bulls have always tried to get the best out of Zach on the court. He's either had the most shots or 2nd most every year. He's started every game he's been healthy. He's paid the most on the team. He's been a top 2 ball handler and 1st or 2nd option in the clutch every year.

Zach has been the best offensive player on the team by volume/efficiency metrics the entire time he's been here, so yeah, that makes sense. Zach has consistently generated really good offense in this role, hence why we paid him so much money and used him in that role, but I agree.

It's pretty much up Zach to show up and play. No one is standing in his way.

Sure, Zach needs to get back on the court and perform. However, I get the impression that Zach isn't excited about being a Chicago Bull, and if his heart isn't in it, you likely aren't going to get the best out of him, and you may then bring other problems into the locker room. You already have a situation now of what do you do with Zach/Coby.

One of the important jobs about management is helping keep the staff motivated to do their best. By all reports, the relationship is fractured. There should be an adult conversation between everyone where they reset, agree that maybe going their separate ways would have been ideal for everyone, but from a practical sense, we couldn't make it happen, and god did we try, so now let's figure out what the best situation is for everyone from here on out and try to move forward.

Management (including Billy in this) could just do nothing about it, but it's far mor likely to be a locker room issue than if they attack it head on and try to figure out a way to get everyone on the same page. Something of the lines like, look we're in this together for this year, let's find a way to start fresh and make the best of it. Start from a place of sincerity and understanding and move from there.

A great thing they should have been doing, but noticeably did not do, was talk about how much they value Zach, how much he has helped the team, and how good he is at every press conference. Instead they left him off and sang praises of literally everyone else on the roster. It was a zero effort thing that has no binding consequence of any type, but helps with some of this type of stuff.

A more savvy GM would have navigated this situation better. That said, our GM is among the dumbest in the league and perhaps the worst at PR. For some extra hilarity, just view the Caruso / Giddey announcements from each team to see what a non moron sounds like next to a moron when discussing the same topic.

From all accounts Zach is very well liked and respected by other players in league. Now that he is part of Klutch that’s magnified even more. Don’t think players around the league they aren’t taking notice of this behavior by Bulls management. Don’t think current Bulls aren’t aware of it as well.

AK has the personality and charm of a rock. I would say he is stupid as well, but it appears he may been stubborn instead of stupid when it comes to this roster.

[vxmike]

I’m all for keeping Zach and rehabbing his trade value. I think his skill set is a really good fit with the current roster and 25/5/5 on 40%+ from 3 is realistic which should bring something nice at the deadline from a contender looking to go all in. On the other hand, I’d hate to repeat the Nikola Mirotic mistake and have Zach go on a heater landing us at #12 and losing our pick. It’s a tightrope.

This roster is awful without DDR, Caruso and Drummond. Zero chance Zach can elevate it past the lottery.

[League Circles]

The most realistic trade I can come up with is probably:

Bulls trade:

Zach
Bitim
Carter or Craig

Bulls receive:

Barnes
Lyles
Duarte
McDaniels
2 2nd round picks (I'd say a first but they owe a protected one next year so might be years before we could get one from them whereas they own Portland's 2025 2nd rounder which should be good.)


These last 3 guys I don't know much about other than their stats suck and they're expiring contracts.

Bulls only get the "help" of Barnes but shed a ton of salary next summer:

5: Smith, Vuc, Lyles
4: Barnes, Matas, Phillips
3: Giddey, Terry, Duarte
2: Patrick, Ayo, McDaniels
1: Coby, Carter, Ball

What I like about that is that it clears up cap space and opportunities for guys like Patrick to expand their game without crowding each other and it clears massive cap space going forward.

Why for Sac? They add a 4th major piece that should fit well with Fox, Murray and Sabonis. Honestly all those 4 need is a Javonte Green type to be dangerous I think.

[Ben Wilson25]

I’m all for keeping Zach and rehabbing his trade value. I think his skill set is a really good fit with the current roster and 25/5/5 on 40%+ from 3 is realistic which should bring something nice at the deadline from a contender looking to go all in. On the other hand, I’d hate to repeat the Nikola Mirotic mistake and have Zach go on a heater landing us at #12 and losing our pick. It’s a tightrope.

This roster is awful without DDR, Caruso and Drummond. Zero chance Zach can elevate it past the lottery.

He doesn’t have to push us out of the lottery to screw us over, just to #11. With the projected strength of next year’s draft class the tanking will probably start early for teams who know they aren’t playoff contenders. A few hot games from Zach where he puts up 40 and carries us to a win over fellow lottery teams could be the difference. Can you imagine ending up in a 3 way tie for the 9th pick, losing the tiebreakers and ending up at #11? I don’t see anyone predicting a sure fire bottom 5 team, the margins could be tight.

[Evil_Headband]

However, I get the impression that Zach isn't excited about being a Chicago Bull, and if his heart isn't in it, you likely aren't going to get the best out of him, and you may then bring other problems into the locker room.

My hope is Zach comes back healthy to training camp with a major chip on his shoulder. His trade value seems to be the butt of jokes around the NBA and with fans. He knows the Bulls have tried to trade him but can't get any type of decent value for him. Even if his heart isn't in it with the Bulls, he needs to show everyone what type of player he really is.

[vxmike]

I’m all for keeping Zach and rehabbing his trade value. I think his skill set is a really good fit with the current roster and 25/5/5 on 40%+ from 3 is realistic which should bring something nice at the deadline from a contender looking to go all in. On the other hand, I’d hate to repeat the Nikola Mirotic mistake and have Zach go on a heater landing us at #12 and losing our pick. It’s a tightrope.

This roster is awful without DDR, Caruso and Drummond. Zero chance Zach can elevate it past the lottery.

He doesn’t have to push us out of the lottery to screw us over, just to #11. With the projected strength of next year’s draft class the tanking will probably start early for teams who know they aren’t playoff contenders. A few hot games from Zach where he puts up 40 and carries us to a win over fellow lottery teams could be the difference. Can you imagine ending up in a 3 way tie for the 9th pick, losing the tiebreakers and ending up at #11? I don’t see anyone predicting a sure fire bottom 5 team, the margins could be tight.

I think they’re a bottom 5 team right now. DDR, Caruso and Drummond were three of the most effective players on a bad team last year. They actually played better without Zach so him coming back doesn’t add many wins. My guess is he’ll be focused on bumping up his stats to increase his trade value.

[burlydee]

Zach made way because Demar is better.

Statistically, this is untrue.

The Bulls have always tried to get the best out of Zach on the court. He's either had the most shots or 2nd most every year. He's started every game he's been healthy. He's paid the most on the team. He's been a top 2 ball handler and 1st or 2nd option in the clutch every year.

Zach has been the best offensive player on the team by volume/efficiency metrics the entire time he's been here, so yeah, that makes sense. Zach has consistently generated really good offense in this role, hence why we paid him so much money and used him in that role, but I agree.

It's pretty much up Zach to show up and play. No one is standing in his way.

Sure, Zach needs to get back on the court and perform. However, I get the impression that Zach isn't excited about being a Chicago Bull, and if his heart isn't in it, you likely aren't going to get the best out of him, and you may then bring other problems into the locker room. You already have a situation now of what do you do with Zach/Coby.

One of the important jobs about management is helping keep the staff motivated to do their best. By all reports, the relationship is fractured. There should be an adult conversation between everyone where they reset, agree that maybe going their separate ways would have been ideal for everyone, but from a practical sense, we couldn't make it happen, and god did we try, so now let's figure out what the best situation is for everyone from here on out and try to move forward.

Management (including Billy in this) could just do nothing about it, but it's far mor likely to be a locker room issue than if they attack it head on and try to figure out a way to get everyone on the same page. Something of the lines like, look we're in this together for this year, let's find a way to start fresh and make the best of it. Start from a place of sincerity and understanding and move from there.

A great thing they should have been doing, but noticeably did not do, was talk about how much they value Zach, how much he has helped the team, and how good he is at every press conference. Instead they left him off and sang praises of literally everyone else on the roster. It was a zero effort thing that has no binding consequence of any type, but helps with some of this type of stuff.

A more savvy GM would have navigated this situation better. That said, our GM is among the dumbest in the league and perhaps the worst at PR. For some extra hilarity, just view the Caruso / Giddey announcements from each team to see what a non moron sounds like next to a moron when discussing the same topic.

I've watched for years as Bulls fans have used statistical arguments to say Lavine is better than Jaylen Brown. Better than Devin Booker. Better than etc. The only metric that ultimately matters is wins and losses.

For the record, I don't think Zach is statistically better. TOV% is a statistic. As is clutch scoring, getting to the free line, AST%. When it comes to actually scoring in the clutch or making your teammates better, Zach isn't it. Zach has failed for 7 years in the 4th quarter of games. In big moments. Even as Demar's defense has been rightly criticized, he has had a better DRtg and DBPM every year they've played together, despite being the older and slower teammate. But sure, pull out your statistics. And talk about the hypothetical of who he COULD fit with. Just know, the market doesn't agree.

Zach gets paid $43 million a year. I don't care if his heart isn't into it. See - this is what you guys don't get. This is why no one wants Zach. The competitive fire needs to burn from the inside. He hasn't proven anything in his career, but he thinks he's entitled to slack off. He carries himself like he's a peer of Draymond and Lebron and all the guys he hangs out with. But he's not. He's entitled. I'm not the Chicago Bulls HR person. I'm not their director of culture. They can have all the conversations they want. Bottom line is the team has been built around Zach, its always been built around Zach, if he's on the court he'll get the 1st or 2nd amount of shots, and he needs to perform.

A more savvy GM wouldn't have given Zach $43 million a year. Zach should be happy AK isn't savvy. When it comes to Zach the bottom line is he's had multiple coaches and multiple GMs and none of them have been able to build a winner around him until Demar, the guy he's supposedly better than, showed up. The contract is a sunk cost. The relationship with the Bulls, a sunk cost. If Zach wants to win, he needs to show the NBA he can be a highly productive 2 guard again while getting the 1st, 2nd or 3rd most shots on the team. If you're one of the top 5 SGs in the league, prove it. The Bulls can't give him away. Mirror time.

[Dan Z]

This roster is awful without DDR, Caruso and Drummond. Zero chance Zach can elevate it past the lottery.

He doesn’t have to push us out of the lottery to screw us over, just to #11. With the projected strength of next year’s draft class the tanking will probably start early for teams who know they aren’t playoff contenders. A few hot games from Zach where he puts up 40 and carries us to a win over fellow lottery teams could be the difference. Can you imagine ending up in a 3 way tie for the 9th pick, losing the tiebreakers and ending up at #11? I don’t see anyone predicting a sure fire bottom 5 team, the margins could be tight.

I think they’re a bottom 5 team right now. DDR, Caruso and Drummond were three of the most effective players on a bad team last year. They actually played better without Zach so him coming back doesn’t add many wins. My guess is he’ll be focused on bumping up his stats to increase his trade value.

Do you think he'll have moments when he's focused on his stats in a way that doesn't consider the overall play of the team?

If that happens that could be a problem.

[bullskokie]

I promise you all… this year will be Zach’s best ever!

[Indomitable]

Show me the report. Again, it has been reported twice just recently by KC Johnson that Zach never asked to be traded. I explained it in my post right before the one you commented on. You are right, if we can't agree that sourced reports are what we are going to go by instead of fan scapegoating, there is no point in "discussing".

The Chicago Bulls began to gauge the trade value of two-time All-Star guard Zach LaVine this past offseason, according to league sources familiar with the matter, even offering LaVine to several teams in search of packages that were equivalent to those of recent superstar returns. Now following a 4-8 start to this 2023-24 campaign, Chicago and LaVine share a mutual interest in finding a trade for the athletic scorer, sources confirmed. The Athletic first reported the Bulls’ latest development.

https://sports.yahoo.com/how-the-bulls-situation-with-zach-lavine-is-taking-shape-211644393.html

LaVine, according to multiple sources familiar with his thinking, does not view this Bulls roster as competitive enough to turn any type of contending corner in the East. From the surface, it’s evident Chicago has a dearth of outside shooting — ranking 22nd in the league in 3-point percentage — surrounding a trio of scorers in LaVine, Vučević and DeRozan who have an affinity for operating in the midrange. LaVine, league sources told Yahoo Sports, is also ready to play under a different head coach than Billy Donovan, who signed an extension with the club before the 2022-23 season began.

[b]LaVine desires to play for a winning franchise[/b], although he has drawn plenty of criticism from league personnel regarding his own culpability in Chicago’s losing nature.

When Lavine made his trade request, I was supportive. The Bulls were treading water. They weren't competitive. His assessment of the team was right. The problem is that the Bulls and league view Lavine as a source of the Bulls problems staying competitive. No amount of nice words from AK will change that. He's got to play, and play well, in the role that the team has for him.

And again, nowhere in what you posted does it say Lavine requested to be traded. While, as another poster said, it may be splitting hairs, it is very relevant in the context of where we are at now. It doesn't appear he is going anywhere, and this idea that Zach just suddenly said "trade me" sets the exactly wrong context for the situation. The parties involved need to sit down and figure this out, and if we are going to discuss their options and the possible outcome we need to have the correct context.

Someone needs to be the adult.