Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

DRoseCantStop · Post #901 » by **DRoseCantStop** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:28 pm

Bold prediction: Swerve alert, Kevin Love gets traded to BOS or CHI instead of Cleveland.

rtblues · Post #902 » by **rtblues** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:58 pm

The way some guys over-value guys on their teams. Get a grip...
Kinda like they were buddies with the dude or something.

Gotta be realistic, firstly, it's a business. Cleveland knows this, and now Miami does too.

They are stacked at Taj's position.
He's almost 30, virtually no upside remaining. WYSIWYG at this point.
They could use a wing-player, who can shoot, score, create.
With the additions of Gasol and Mirotic, it's highly unlikely that Taj's minutes go up, they would, in fact, they most likely be going down, if he should remain with the Bulls.
He probably is at his peak trade value right now. A year from now, not so much.
We wouldn't really be losing a "go-to-guy", all-star, or D.P.O.Y., but rather a journeyman, perennial bench player.

When I do the math, he's the odd-man out.
They can get someone good for him, at a position that better serves the overall needs of the team.

Appreciate his work, wish him luck, but sorry, no bro-mance here....

[e] · Post #903 » by **[e]** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:04 pm

Taj just turned 29 guys, how's that make him "almost 30?" The man has 11 months before he turns 30. He started his entire rookie season, and was our "closer" this season - I'd argue that being on the court at the end of the game is more important than starting it

Oh and if Butler or McBuckets makes the USA team....would be so sweet. Can't wait for that game at the UC in August.

Proven_Winner · Post #904 » by **Proven_Winner** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:07 pm

rtblues wrote:The way some guys over-value guys on their teams. Get a grip...
Kinda like they were buddies with the dude or something.

Gotta be realistic, firstly, it's a business. Cleveland knows this, and now Miami does too.

They are stacked at Taj's position.
He's almost 30, virtually no upside remaining. WYSIWYG at this point.
They could use a wing-player, who can shoot, score, create.
With the additions of Gasol and Mirotic, it's highly unlikely that Taj's minutes go up, they would, in fact, they most likely be going down, if he should remain with the Bulls.
He probably is at his peak trade value right now. A year from now, not so much.
We wouldn't really be losing a "go-to-guy", all-star, or D.P.O.Y., but rather a journeyman, perennial bench player.

When I do the math, he's the odd-man out.
They can get someone good for him, at a position that better serves the overall needs of the team.

Appreciate his work, wish him luck, but sorry, no bro-mance here....

The way some guys underrate their own players because they aren't all stars. Get a grip...

TylerB · Post #905 » by **TylerB** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:09 pm

[e] wrote:Taj just turned 29 guys, how's that make him "almost 30?" The man has 11 months before he turns 30. He started his entire rookie season, and was our "closer" this season - I'd argue that being on the court at the end of the game is more important than starting it

29 is almost 30.

24 is not almost 30.

See the difference?

BullsFTW · Post #906 » by **BullsFTW** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:12 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
DanTown8587 wrote:For the people who think Taj+Dunleavy for the Waiters, Thompson, Martin package isn't enough, what is enough?

I don't know, I'm starting to give up on Taj trade proposals. He's become 2006-2007 Luol Deng in terms of fan value.

I like Gibson, but a soon-to-be 30-year-old, career backup power forward, does not have as much value as people want to believe. Especially now that Gasol and Mirotic are here to make the frontcourt less opportunistic.

If we trade Taj to get a legitimate starting SG/SF, I will not complain. If we somehow traded Taj to get a legitimate starting SG/SF and a serviceable big, I will be thrilled. Someone said Taj for Martin and Dieng and that would be perfect. I don't know why Minnesota does that, but if we're ignoring that, it's perfect. Martin has good production and he's under contract for an affordable three years, $21 million.

I agree with that also. It's a fair trade. I guess if the three-way deal doesn't happen, that's a decent alternative.

F Butler/McDermott/MDJ
F Gasol/Mirotic/Bairstow
C Noah/Dieng
G Martin/Snell
G Rose/Hinrich/Brooks

That's a solid line-up.

BullsFTW · Post #907 » by **BullsFTW** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:13 pm

blumeany wrote:I don't think Minny is *using* the Bulls. I see them both working in tandem.

I agree

Indomitable · Post #908 » by **Indomitable** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:18 pm

Proven_Winner wrote:
rtblues wrote:The way some guys over-value guys on their teams. Get a grip...
Kinda like they were buddies with the dude or something.

Gotta be realistic, firstly, it's a business. Cleveland knows this, and now Miami does too.

They are stacked at Taj's position.
He's almost 30, virtually no upside remaining. WYSIWYG at this point.
They could use a wing-player, who can shoot, score, create.
With the additions of Gasol and Mirotic, it's highly unlikely that Taj's minutes go up, they would, in fact, they most likely be going down, if he should remain with the Bulls.
He probably is at his peak trade value right now. A year from now, not so much.
We wouldn't really be losing a "go-to-guy", all-star, or D.P.O.Y., but rather a journeyman, perennial bench player.

When I do the math, he's the odd-man out.
They can get someone good for him, at a position that better serves the overall needs of the team.

Appreciate his work, wish him luck, but sorry, no bro-mance here....

The way some guys underrate their own players because they aren't all stars. Get a grip...

And1

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[e] · Post #909 » by **[e]** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:18 pm

If we get Martin and Dieng for Taj - you do it. I can't see them wanting to give up Dieng though, he looked real promising towards the end of last season.

[e] · Post #910 » by **[e]** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:20 pm

TylerB wrote:
[e] wrote:Taj just turned 29 guys, how's that make him "almost 30?" The man has 11 months before he turns 30. He started his entire rookie season, and was our "closer" this season - I'd argue that being on the court at the end of the game is more important than starting it

29 is almost 30.

24 is not almost 30.

See the difference?

Just turning 29 doesn't make you 30...

Who's 24? Saying Taj is 30 is almost the same as saying Kevin Love just turned 27 (he turns 26 in September)

TylerB · Post #911 » by **TylerB** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:22 pm

[e] wrote:
TylerB wrote:
[e] wrote:Taj just turned 29 guys, how's that make him "almost 30?" The man has 11 months before he turns 30. He started his entire rookie season, and was our "closer" this season - I'd argue that being on the court at the end of the game is more important than starting it

29 is almost 30.

24 is not almost 30.

See the difference?

Just turning 29 doesn't make you 30...

Who's 24? Saying Taj is 30 is almost the same as saying Kevin Love just turned 27 (he turns 26 in September)

No matter what bizarre arguments you make Taj Gibson is almost 30 years old.

Indomitable · Post #912 » by **Indomitable** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:24 pm

Ice the knees wrote:
johnnyvann840 wrote:
Ice the knees wrote:Johnny, the Bulls aren't starting Taj. They would prefer to trade Taj to round out the roster. I'm not sure either of those two points are in contention. If you are telling me that you think Taj should start, fine. That's your opinion. I'm just telling you that the Bulls don't appear to be planning to start Taj

edit, I also get the sense that you may actually think Taj is better than Pau. So I can't really go anywhere else with this discussion. That's insane.

Take me up on my bet then.. He might not start ,, but he will lead the team in minutes this year of all the guys at the 4 and 5.

No, no bet. But he won't start. Probably won't be on the team past the deadline.

Bulls signed Pau, Pau is starting over Taj. That's only a debate for very few posters. The real debate is what the Bulls can get for Taj in a trade...Kevin Martin seems fair, though I wouldn't trade Taj for Martin...Would need to be Martin + another nice piece. I believe that's where the Bulls and the league stands as well.

Yes taj will and screw Martin

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AKfanatic · Post #913 » by **AKfanatic** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:25 pm

DRoseCantStop wrote:Bold prediction: Swerve alert, Kevin Love gets traded to BOS or CHI instead of Cleveland.

I'd actually love to see this. Bring more talent to the east and team him with Rondo, I'm also a big fan of Bradley Stevens and root for him to have a great career as an NBA coach. It'd also be one more team challenging to keep NYC out of the playoffs, while also putting two NYC free agent targets together on a Knicks rival.

NecessaryEvil · Post #914 » by **NecessaryEvil** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:32 pm

rtblues wrote:The way some guys over-value guys on their teams. Get a grip...
Kinda like they were buddies with the dude or something.

Gotta be realistic, firstly, it's a business. Cleveland knows this, and now Miami does too.

They are stacked at Taj's position.
He's almost 30, virtually no upside remaining. WYSIWYG at this point.
They could use a wing-player, who can shoot, score, create.
With the additions of Gasol and Mirotic, it's highly unlikely that Taj's minutes go up, they would, in fact, they most likely be going down, if he should remain with the Bulls.
He probably is at his peak trade value right now. A year from now, not so much.
We wouldn't really be losing a "go-to-guy", all-star, or D.P.O.Y., but rather a journeyman, perennial bench player.

When I do the math, he's the odd-man out.
They can get someone good for him, at a position that better serves the overall needs of the team.

Appreciate his work, wish him luck, but sorry, no bro-mance here....

And 1..

Shill · Post #915 » by **Shill** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:34 pm

[e] wrote:
TylerB wrote:
[e] wrote:Taj just turned 29 guys, how's that make him "almost 30?" The man has 11 months before he turns 30. He started his entire rookie season, and was our "closer" this season - I'd argue that being on the court at the end of the game is more important than starting it

29 is almost 30.

24 is not almost 30.

See the difference?

Just turning 29 doesn't make you 30...

Who's 24? Saying Taj is 30 is almost the same as saying Kevin Love just turned 27 (he turns 26 in September)

No, but it makes you almost 30.

AKfanatic · Post #916 » by **AKfanatic** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:36 pm

Last season I saw a lot of complaints aimed at the front office for lacking depth and not being prepared for injury. Now I'm seeing many people that have regularly harped on Noah as injury prone wanting to get rid of Taj simply because of "depth". What happens when Noah goes down, or Pau, and Nikola/Barstow are the only back-ups on the team? Do we really have faith in a rookie? Or a vet min guy to come in and bring what Taj does, especially for the defense.

If it's a true upgrade both short and long term, you obviously do the deal. But you don't trade him to fill a perceived hole while possibly creating another. Lots of opinions (on all sides) seem convinced about what a team they've yet to see needs. There are so many variables with rookie additions, player improvement, FA additions, and Rose joining the team, nobody at all knows how they could look.

FecesOfDeath · Post #917 » by **FecesOfDeath** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:39 pm

More unconnected thoughts:

Taj's .200+ win share rate in the playoffs (when healthy) makes him someone you just don't give away so easily. In addition, he had a PER of 26.5 in last year's playoffs. Playoffs.

If David Lee had a three point shot and was right-handed, he'd be Kevin Love. That is the only difference. If you think a right-handed David Lee with a three point shot will put the Bulls over the top...

Shill · Post #918 » by **Shill** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:43 pm

FecesOfDeath wrote:
In addition, he had a PER of 26.5 in last year's playoffs. Playoffs.

Five games isn't a significant sample size.

If David Lee had a three point shot and was right-handed, he'd be Kevin Love.

BullsFTW · Post #919 » by **BullsFTW** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:45 pm

[e] wrote:If we get Martin and Dieng for Taj - you do it. I can't see them wanting to give up Dieng though, he looked real promising towards the end of last season.

It really depends on how high Flip is towards Taj. He seems to like Taj a lot.

WhiteM0nkey · Post #920 » by **WhiteM0nkey** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:47 pm

[e] wrote:
TylerB wrote:
[e] wrote:Taj just turned 29 guys, how's that make him "almost 30?" The man has 11 months before he turns 30. He started his entire rookie season, and was our "closer" this season - I'd argue that being on the court at the end of the game is more important than starting it

29 is almost 30.

24 is not almost 30.

See the difference?

Just turning 29 doesn't make you 30...

Who's 24? Saying Taj is 30 is almost the same as saying Kevin Love just turned 27 (he turns 26 in September)

I can help out with more examples if you needed.

22 is almost 23
18 is almost 19
55 is almost 56

while

26 is not almost 32
34 is not almost 42
18 is not almost 28