NBA Trade Thread #12

[Dez]

Kuminga has the IQ of a potato.

[Infinity2152]

It's unclear what GS would do S&Twise but Kuminga needs to sign-up for the deal. IIRC, he turned down 5/$150 already...maybe he's facing a market reality test, but hard to imagine him signing up for less, assuming GS is willing to facilitate a deal to another team.

Didn't the exact same thing happen to Caleb Martin last year? Turned down 5yr/$65 mi extension and ended up setting a week later for 4yrs/$32 mill. Not all that uncommon that players overestimate their market value. Kuminga has no leverage, there's only one team with cap space enough to sign him outright. It's not just his actual market value, it's there are no teams able to pay him what he wants. If a team is giving up assets to get him, are they also going to want to pay him his maximum contract value at the same time? Be like signing him in free agency at full price, and giving up picks and players to do it.

Maybe the best thing is the Nets make a $30 mill offer to him day 1, and we get in on a three way. Kuminga to Nets, Vucevic/Carter to Warriors, pick assets or young player to us. We basically move Vucevic/Carter for cap space and pick(s). Not sure of the exact moves required to make that happen, but it should be possible.

Don’t think ST can be 3 way.

Lots of players have overplayed their hand. Dennis Shroeder says hello.

Kuminga should not be worth more than 20M. He missed lots of games last season.
- He’s not a winning player but could become one
- His 3 ball hurts spacing big time with Giddey and he needs Giddey to get him lobs and dunks
- His D is ok but should be much better. Same for rebounding
- Billy believes two guards and Giddey gives us more pace and space.

Nothing makes me believe Kuminga will become what he will paid to be.

Pulled from Copilot:
Yes, a sign-and-trade can be used in a three-team trade, but there are specific rules that must be followed. Under the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), a sign-and-trade allows a team to sign a free agent and immediately trade them to another team. However, if a third team is involved, the transaction must comply with salary cap regulations, trade exceptions, and apron restrictions.

For example, in a recent three-team trade proposal, the Boston Celtics were unable to sign-and-trade a player due to second-apron restrictions. Teams above the second apron face limitations, including not being able to acquire a player via sign-and-trade. This means that while three-team trades are common, sign-and-trade deals require careful structuring to ensure compliance with the CBA.

I'm skeptical of risk/reward for Kuminga at $30+ mill too. Lower price makes it a little more acceptable. I think if GS doesn't play him those last couple of games, $30 mill would be out of the question, and not sure GM's will be that swayed by a few games. Don't imagine there will be tons of interest in him at $30+ mill plus the trade assets to acquire him. More than fine dumping Vuc plus (Ayo or Carter) for cap space and pick(s) in the three way though. Warriors are at 170.5 this summer, apron restrictions and cap shouldn't be a problem.

[2weekswithpay]

I'm pretty sure Derozan was 3-way sign and trade last summer. Us, the Spurs, and the Kings.

[Infinity2152]

I'm pretty sure Derozan was 3-way sign and trade last summer. Us, the Spurs, and the Kings.

Nice, forgot about that. AK's done it before, let's get it!

[Ccwatercraft]

Huge plus for Kuminga is he's only 22. Plenty of time to shore up weaknesses and improve his shooting. He shot 34% from 3 and 37% his first two seasons, so it's reasonable he could get to NBA average (36%). Wouldn't worry about his offense as much as defense. Rebounding not quite as bad as I thought (6.8 per 36 last season), but defense numbers don't look great. Haven't seen him a lot, so have to rely on stats a lot with him. Maybe some here are just tired of so many offense first starters (Giddey, White, Lavine, Derozan, Vucevic). Saw a trade suggestion today for Vucevic, Ball and a top 5 protected first. More than I would give, but I'll admit if he develops, that would be a good deal for us (minus the pick).

Ball is not a throw in for me. He's our best or second-best defender, best or second-best passer, one of the best rebounders, highest BBall IQ, one of the best shooters and best floor leader. Plus adding him pushes Kuminga to $30 mill. Would strongly consider send Vuc, Ayo for Kuminga at around $26-$27 mill.

If we're going to be throwing 25-30 mil around I'd rather target Naz reid and actually fill a huge need.

[jnrjr79]

Would strongly consider send Vuc, Ayo for Kuminga at around $26-$27 mill.

Infinity, you may be on to something. A sign and trade of Kuminga at about $28 mil/year works in a trade for Vuc with base year compensation rules. But not with Ayo. However, the Warriors have a $8.6 mil trade exception that would separately allow a trade for Ayo. I like Ayo but this could be a good value trade for both teams.

It's unclear what GS would do S&Twise but Kuminga needs to sign-up for the deal. IIRC, he turned down 5/$150 already...maybe he's facing a market reality test, but hard to imagine him signing up for less, assuming GS is willing to facilitate a deal to another team.

Sure, but there has to be someone willing to send out that kind of salary + whatever other assets in trade to facilitate that. Will there be?

[ChettheJet]

If the 76ers really would trade down from #3, some to save money some to get some right now contributors what can the Bulls add to #12, maybe the PORT pick to help PHIL? The 76ers don't have many contracts to be able to send back that could interest the Bulls, likely need a 3rd even 4th team to get more players in the mix. The 3rd team gets #12 while send PHIL a pick around #20 the Bulls get some 3rd or 4th team player(s). Put PORT in the mix to send Ayton to the Bulls as they get their pick back.

Coby White as SG/ 6th man they may resign or not, Vucevic would cover for Embiid's constant injuries for a year

[Infinity2152]

Huge plus for Kuminga is he's only 22. Plenty of time to shore up weaknesses and improve his shooting. He shot 34% from 3 and 37% his first two seasons, so it's reasonable he could get to NBA average (36%). Wouldn't worry about his offense as much as defense. Rebounding not quite as bad as I thought (6.8 per 36 last season), but defense numbers don't look great. Haven't seen him a lot, so have to rely on stats a lot with him. Maybe some here are just tired of so many offense first starters (Giddey, White, Lavine, Derozan, Vucevic). Saw a trade suggestion today for Vucevic, Ball and a top 5 protected first. More than I would give, but I'll admit if he develops, that would be a good deal for us (minus the pick).

Ball is not a throw in for me. He's our best or second-best defender, best or second-best passer, one of the best rebounders, highest BBall IQ, one of the best shooters and best floor leader. Plus adding him pushes Kuminga to $30 mill. Would strongly consider send Vuc, Ayo for Kuminga at around $26-$27 mill.

If we're going to be throwing 25-30 mil around I'd rather target Naz reid and actually fill a huge need.

Can feel that. Another way to look at it is Kuminga even remotely the best player(s) we can get spending 30+ mill, while including multiple players? Like Reid more than Kuminga, can't come close to predicting who ends up better since Kuminga's only 22. His possible range is pretty huge. I look at the difference between Coby at 22 vs 26, he's much more polished and considered more valuable league wise.

I'm a big fan of pushing for Reid, he's much more ready now. Per 36 18.6 pts, 7.9 rbs, 3 assts, 38% 3pt 1.2 blocks, .9 steals. He's never really started more than few games a season, would be much more comfortable around $20 mill for Reid. I'd use Nic Claxton as contract basis for Reid. Better defender, worse shooter, but 6'11 and a core player with a higher PER. His contract at 4 yrs/$100 mill I'm seeing people around the league are calling an overpay. I'm looking for Reid around $20 mill.

[leo921]

I wish Portland had more obviously available assets to make it interesting for us. Here's one idea:

Blazers Trade: DeAndre Ayton and the 11th Pick in the 2025 Draft
Bulls Trade: Patrick Williams, Zach Collins, the 12th (2025), Portland's Future 1st Round Pick

It gives them full control of their own pick back and clears the way for Clingan. They take on a meh contract, but two serviceable players (one they're familiar with) and only move down one spot in the draft.

I just think the trade is the Portland pick for their pick this year. Maybe the Bulls throw in a 2nd. Im certainly not trading two firsts for one to get back Ayton. We get out of the PWill contract, but I don't think that is worth a pick. If that pick swap is so important, gives us the # 11, we'll give you #45 and Terry.

Great points in all of these posts!

I agree that sending 12 and POR 1st for #1 is a bad idea. I feel like there was value placed on Ayton, but he's another non-defending, non-3pt shooting big (aka another "AK Special"). To be fair, I tried to come up with something else that would be mutually interesting, but mine were worse. All I could possibly see would be Pat + Vuc + Por 1st for Grant + 11 + filler. I look at Grant as slightly better than Pat and with a 1 yr shorter, but worse deal. 11 is better than Por 1st to us, but Por 1st is likely more valuable to POR than #11. I think I'd do it for the pick value and not having to watch Vuc next season. I'd probably end-up preferring Ayton to Grant at the end of the day because he's on a shorter deal.

Dude if Portland was willing to do this deal you take it, run and thank the lord.

Blazers Trade: DeAndre Ayton and the 11th Pick
Bulls Trade: Patrick Williams, Zach Collins, the 12th pick, Portland's Future 1st Round Pick.

Even if you are not a Ayton believer he is a 35m expiring contract AND you are getting rid of Williams 18m per year contract for the next 4 years.
You are still in a great cap position for free agency/trades plus you move up 1 draft pick position, all at the low cost of a terrible Williams, average Collins, 25 draft picks are a wash and giving Port there pick back.

For the Bulls this is an abouslte steal and gives them more options moving forward.
Hell play hard ball with Giddy and get a contract in the 22-25m per year range (no one else can pay him more) for 5 years and with some smart decisions we may be able to see daylight again

[burlydee]

I just think the trade is the Portland pick for their pick this year. Maybe the Bulls throw in a 2nd. Im certainly not trading two firsts for one to get back Ayton. We get out of the PWill contract, but I don't think that is worth a pick. If that pick swap is so important, gives us the # 11, we'll give you #45 and Terry.

Great points in all of these posts!

I agree that sending 12 and POR 1st for #1 is a bad idea. I feel like there was value placed on Ayton, but he's another non-defending, non-3pt shooting big (aka another "AK Special"). To be fair, I tried to come up with something else that would be mutually interesting, but mine were worse. All I could possibly see would be Pat + Vuc + Por 1st for Grant + 11 + filler. I look at Grant as slightly better than Pat and with a 1 yr shorter, but worse deal. 11 is better than Por 1st to us, but Por 1st is likely more valuable to POR than #11. I think I'd do it for the pick value and not having to watch Vuc next season. I'd probably end-up preferring Ayton to Grant at the end of the day because he's on a shorter deal.

Dude if Portland was willing to do this deal you take it, run and thank the lord.

Blazers Trade: DeAndre Ayton and the 11th Pick
Bulls Trade: Patrick Williams, Zach Collins, the 12th pick, Portland's Future 1st Round Pick.

Even if you are not a Ayton believer he is a 35m expiring contract AND you are getting rid of Williams 18m per year contract for the next 4 years.
You are still in a great cap position for free agency/trades plus you move up 1 draft pick position, all at the low cost of a terrible Williams, average Collins, 25 draft picks are a wash and giving Port there pick back.

For the Bulls this is an abouslte steal and gives them more options moving forward.
Hell play hard ball with Giddy and get a contract in the 22-25m per year range (no one else can pay him more) for 5 years and with some smart decisions we may be able to see daylight again

Vuc was better than Ayton last season. The Bulls are unlikely to do anything with the cap space. Giving up a 1st round pick to get Ayton makes zero sense.

Moving up 1 sport in the NBA draft is truly meaningless unless Portland and the Bulls are eyeing the exact same player.

[leo921]

Great points in all of these posts!

I agree that sending 12 and POR 1st for #1 is a bad idea. I feel like there was value placed on Ayton, but he's another non-defending, non-3pt shooting big (aka another "AK Special"). To be fair, I tried to come up with something else that would be mutually interesting, but mine were worse. All I could possibly see would be Pat + Vuc + Por 1st for Grant + 11 + filler. I look at Grant as slightly better than Pat and with a 1 yr shorter, but worse deal. 11 is better than Por 1st to us, but Por 1st is likely more valuable to POR than #11. I think I'd do it for the pick value and not having to watch Vuc next season. I'd probably end-up preferring Ayton to Grant at the end of the day because he's on a shorter deal.

Dude if Portland was willing to do this deal you take it, run and thank the lord.

Blazers Trade: DeAndre Ayton and the 11th Pick
Bulls Trade: Patrick Williams, Zach Collins, the 12th pick, Portland's Future 1st Round Pick.

Even if you are not a Ayton believer he is a 35m expiring contract AND you are getting rid of Williams 18m per year contract for the next 4 years.
You are still in a great cap position for free agency/trades plus you move up 1 draft pick position, all at the low cost of a terrible Williams, average Collins, 25 draft picks are a wash and giving Port there pick back.

For the Bulls this is an abouslte steal and gives them more options moving forward.
Hell play hard ball with Giddy and get a contract in the 22-25m per year range (no one else can pay him more) for 5 years and with some smart decisions we may be able to see daylight again

Vuc was better than Ayton last season. The Bulls are unlikely to do anything with the cap space. Giving up a 1st round pick to get Ayton makes zero sense.

Moving up 1 sport in the NBA draft is truly meaningless unless Portland and the Bulls are eyeing the exact same player.

So to be clear your saying that Patrick Williams the player and his large and long contract (18m per next 4 years) plus a top 14 protected Portland pick are all so valauble to you that you would refuse a 35m expiring contract that gives you more options and space moving forward. wow thats pretty sad and shocking because i promise you no team would take Williams/Port pick and give us any positive value but you do you

[jnrjr79]

I just think the trade is the Portland pick for their pick this year. Maybe the Bulls throw in a 2nd. Im certainly not trading two firsts for one to get back Ayton. We get out of the PWill contract, but I don't think that is worth a pick. If that pick swap is so important, gives us the # 11, we'll give you #45 and Terry.

Great points in all of these posts!

I agree that sending 12 and POR 1st for #1 is a bad idea. I feel like there was value placed on Ayton, but he's another non-defending, non-3pt shooting big (aka another "AK Special"). To be fair, I tried to come up with something else that would be mutually interesting, but mine were worse. All I could possibly see would be Pat + Vuc + Por 1st for Grant + 11 + filler. I look at Grant as slightly better than Pat and with a 1 yr shorter, but worse deal. 11 is better than Por 1st to us, but Por 1st is likely more valuable to POR than #11. I think I'd do it for the pick value and not having to watch Vuc next season. I'd probably end-up preferring Ayton to Grant at the end of the day because he's on a shorter deal.

Dude if Portland was willing to do this deal you take it, run and thank the lord.

Blazers Trade: DeAndre Ayton and the 11th Pick
Bulls Trade: Patrick Williams, Zach Collins, the 12th pick, Portland's Future 1st Round Pick.

Even if you are not a Ayton believer he is a 35m expiring contract AND you are getting rid of Williams 18m per year contract for the next 4 years.
You are still in a great cap position for free agency/trades plus you move up 1 draft pick position, all at the low cost of a terrible Williams, average Collins, 25 draft picks are a wash and giving Port there pick back.

For the Bulls this is an abouslte steal and gives them more options moving forward.
Hell play hard ball with Giddy and get a contract in the 22-25m per year range (no one else can pay him more) for 5 years and with some smart decisions we may be able to see daylight again

While there's a lot of "stuff" going on here, this basically nets out to returning the Blazers future 1st to them in order to get out of 2 years of paying Pat. I get it, but I'd probably pass.

[burlydee]

Dude if Portland was willing to do this deal you take it, run and thank the lord.

Blazers Trade: DeAndre Ayton and the 11th Pick
Bulls Trade: Patrick Williams, Zach Collins, the 12th pick, Portland's Future 1st Round Pick.

Even if you are not a Ayton believer he is a 35m expiring contract AND you are getting rid of Williams 18m per year contract for the next 4 years.
You are still in a great cap position for free agency/trades plus you move up 1 draft pick position, all at the low cost of a terrible Williams, average Collins, 25 draft picks are a wash and giving Port there pick back.

For the Bulls this is an abouslte steal and gives them more options moving forward.
Hell play hard ball with Giddy and get a contract in the 22-25m per year range (no one else can pay him more) for 5 years and with some smart decisions we may be able to see daylight again

Vuc was better than Ayton last season. The Bulls are unlikely to do anything with the cap space. Giving up a 1st round pick to get Ayton makes zero sense.

Moving up 1 sport in the NBA draft is truly meaningless unless Portland and the Bulls are eyeing the exact same player.

So to be clear your saying that Patrick Williams the player and his large and long contract (18m per next 4 years) plus a top 14 protected Portland pick are all so valauble to you that you would refuse a 35m expiring contract that gives you more options and space moving forward. wow thats pretty sad and shocking because i promise you no team would take Williams/Port pick and give us any positive value but you do you

I don't think getting out of Pat's contract is worth a mid round 1st. I don't think we are at a point where Pat's contract is prohibiting the Bulls from making a move. I think he becomes more tradeable as the years get lower and the salary cap rises so I would wait. We may get to the point where off loading an asset to move Pat makes sense, but if tge org could tolerate waiting on Lonzo, a more expensive player who wasn't playing, they can hold onto pat.

I don't think Ayton cares about basketball so I'm not sure I'd want him on the team.

[boozapalooza]

A trade hypothetical we unfortunately need to address:
Vuc, Collins, filler, POR 1st for Sabonis

Yes the Kings acquiring our mid 3 would be hilarious. But also makes sense as a chance for them to clear salary and gain flexibility.

For us, Sabonis is a steady 18/12/6 every game, 3x all star, and was top 10 in MVP 2 of the last 3 years. Hes kinda like a younger Vuc. We know what he is. A good player who will lead us towards being competitive, but not a championship.

Its a textbook AKME move for this offseason. Its a deal for me if we can somehow offload PWill’s contract while taking on Sabonis.

[sco]

A trade hypothetical we unfortunately need to address:
Vuc, Collins, filler, POR 1st for Sabonis

Yes the Kings acquiring our mid 3 would be hilarious. But also makes sense as a chance for them to clear salary and gain flexibility.

For us, Sabonis is a steady 18/12/6 every game, 3x all star, and was top 10 in MVP 2 of the last 3 years. Hes kinda like a younger Vuc. We know what he is. A good player who will lead us towards being competitive, but not a championship.

Its a textbook AKME move for this offseason. Its a deal for me if we can somehow offload PWill’s contract while taking on Sabonis.

It reeks of a sprint toward mediocrity. I can't imagine supporting any deal for Sabonis...especially given his $44M contract going up to $50M and a that doesn't rid us of PWill's contract. We would need to be all-in on drafting one of those PF/C defensive guys to play alongside him.

[Chi town]

Huge plus for Kuminga is he's only 22. Plenty of time to shore up weaknesses and improve his shooting. He shot 34% from 3 and 37% his first two seasons, so it's reasonable he could get to NBA average (36%). Wouldn't worry about his offense as much as defense. Rebounding not quite as bad as I thought (6.8 per 36 last season), but defense numbers don't look great. Haven't seen him a lot, so have to rely on stats a lot with him. Maybe some here are just tired of so many offense first starters (Giddey, White, Lavine, Derozan, Vucevic). Saw a trade suggestion today for Vucevic, Ball and a top 5 protected first. More than I would give, but I'll admit if he develops, that would be a good deal for us (minus the pick).

Ball is not a throw in for me. He's our best or second-best defender, best or second-best passer, one of the best rebounders, highest BBall IQ, one of the best shooters and best floor leader. Plus adding him pushes Kuminga to $30 mill. Would strongly consider send Vuc, Ayo for Kuminga at around $26-$27 mill.

If we're going to be throwing 25-30 mil around I'd rather target Naz reid and actually fill a huge need.

Exactly.

Maybe Wolves want Kuminga in a 3 way with Bulls for Vuc and Dubs.

[sco]

Huge plus for Kuminga is he's only 22. Plenty of time to shore up weaknesses and improve his shooting. He shot 34% from 3 and 37% his first two seasons, so it's reasonable he could get to NBA average (36%). Wouldn't worry about his offense as much as defense. Rebounding not quite as bad as I thought (6.8 per 36 last season), but defense numbers don't look great. Haven't seen him a lot, so have to rely on stats a lot with him. Maybe some here are just tired of so many offense first starters (Giddey, White, Lavine, Derozan, Vucevic). Saw a trade suggestion today for Vucevic, Ball and a top 5 protected first. More than I would give, but I'll admit if he develops, that would be a good deal for us (minus the pick).

Ball is not a throw in for me. He's our best or second-best defender, best or second-best passer, one of the best rebounders, highest BBall IQ, one of the best shooters and best floor leader. Plus adding him pushes Kuminga to $30 mill. Would strongly consider send Vuc, Ayo for Kuminga at around $26-$27 mill.

If we're going to be throwing 25-30 mil around I'd rather target Naz reid and actually fill a huge need.

Exactly.

Maybe Wolves want Kuminga in a 3 way with Bulls for Vuc and Dubs.

Wow. A Kuminga/Randle pairing sounds very Bulls like.

[boozapalooza]

A trade hypothetical we unfortunately need to address:
Vuc, Collins, filler, POR 1st for Sabonis

Yes the Kings acquiring our mid 3 would be hilarious. But also makes sense as a chance for them to clear salary and gain flexibility.

For us, Sabonis is a steady 18/12/6 every game, 3x all star, and was top 10 in MVP 2 of the last 3 years. Hes kinda like a younger Vuc. We know what he is. A good player who will lead us towards being competitive, but not a championship.

Its a textbook AKME move for this offseason. Its a deal for me if we can somehow offload PWill’s contract while taking on Sabonis.

It reeks of a sprint toward mediocrity. I can't imagine supporting any deal for Sabonis...especially given his $44M contract going up to $50M and a that doesn't rid us of PWill's contract. We would need to be all-in on drafting one of those PF/C defensive guys to play alongside him.

Yes, it reeks of a sprint towards mediocrity so it should fall into AK’s wheelhouse. Acquiring Sabonis undoubtedly makes us good enough to be a playoff team, but not enough to be a championship team. Just enough hope to sell us on a Giddey/Coby/Matas/Sabonis core. Its plausible.

I agree we would need PWill included to rid us of some bad salary in order to take this on. Maybe Derozan can play up his “mentorship” narrative with him and PWill to help get Sacramento comfortable.

[Chi town]

I will stop watching if we trade for Sabonis

[Infinity2152]

Kind of split on the Sabonis trade. I wouldn't do it to play Sabonis at center. Sabonis has played PF most of his career, and can play next to a rim protecting center. Not worried about his paint defense nearly as much at PF. Sabonis is an All-Star talent. We could get by with a 10pt/10rb center if he's a good/great defender (Gafford type). Or Jalen Smith could be it. With Matas next to him, we'd just need a great two way SG. Should get a great amount of scoring from Giddey, Matas, Sabonis.