Derrick Rose Thread #13 - Acceptance

[DRoseChiCity420]

If the bulls got to the finals this would go down at one of the best underdog teams in the history of the NBA like this would just be madness lol and thibs would be like a GOD to us an Noah would take Rose spot as our top player

But that is not happening lol

[Debaser]

Rose isn't going to play against the Nets because if the Bulls win, Rose will have to play against the Heat. I'm not saying Rose is scared of playing Lebron, but I believe Team Rose are still jaded over what happened in the 2011 playoffs. Rose carried the Bulls to the ECF, but what the public remembers from that Bulls-Heat series is Lebron successfully guarding a worn out Rose. No way Team Rose lets him come back to face the Heat unless he is 110%. But if the Roseless Bulls can defeat the Heat, I believe Rose will come back for the ECF.

[coldfish]

The Bulls have now paid the luxury tax once. If they keep doing it, they will get hit with the repeater tax. Beyond that, going for it next year means paying a lot of salary and tax. 10's of millions.

If you were a business man, would you bet 10's of millions of dollars on next year's team? Knowing that you can only do it once or twice? Not knowing if Rose will be 100% or not given his 'near worst recovery of all time'? Ans: Hell no.

It depends on how you view the Bulls. Do you view the Bulls as an investment vehicle? Then yes.
I view owning NBA, NFL, MLB teams as investments that are going to keep going up and up and up.

Forbes recently valued the Bulls at $800million. I believe when Reinsdorf bought the Bulls he paid $16million in 1983. He then allowed all of his buddies to buy into the franchise for dirt cheap. So over the last 30 years his investment has been growing at annual rate of just under 14%.

IMO any profit he makes off the team in a given year should be viewed as dividend. So hell yea I think the Bulls can afford to pay the repeater tax but I think there is good way to go about it and a bad way.

Letting Asik and Korver go bad move. As Gar famously said "They will make basketball decisions not financial ones", unfortunately that was not the case. The Bulls are a franchise that should be making decisions based on how it helps the team but they dont. Sorry about taking the thread off track for a bit.

You are kind of switching issues.

Regardless of how much you think the Bulls should spend, does Rose sitting out a year with an injury make them want to spend more or less next year? IMO, its clearly less.

If they were max spenders, maybe Rose's injury doesn't impact their spending decision but I don't see any scenario where the Bulls think "hey, Rose just sat out an entire year for an 8 month injury, let's really empty the bank next year!"

[ForLoveofGame]

What I don't understand is why do star players sign max contracts and then complain the FO hasn't surrounded them with enough good talent.

If they take a $5 Million dollar pay cut then the FO will have more money to get decent talent.
A star player can easily make that through endorsements and deals.

In the case of Derrick, he could easily make a lot more through adidas or any other sponsor. Why sign a max deal and then have your brother come out saying the team hasn't provided Derrick with enough talent?

Yes it's a random though and I am most likely ranting...

[SpinninHouse]

I just want to win a championship -- with or without Derrick Rose. I have serious doubts as to whether or not Rose will ever be the same player he was in 2011. And if he is, for how long will he play at that level? He's 24 and history has shown us that speed-based PG's frequently decline at age 28. Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, etc.

PG's who last longer (Andre Miller, John Stockton, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, etc) either were never lightning quick to begin with, seriously adapted their games, or were incredibly strong in an area that didn't require quickness to excell (GP with defense, Kidd/Miller/Stockton with passing). Steve Nash appears to be an exception -- as he's always had a ton of speed, has had a very long career, but developed a deadly perimeter shot.

To be fair, Derrick Rose is a different category of player than guys like Steve Francis and Marbury. He is quicker, stronger, more efficient, and signficantly more dominate than they ever were. But it is unknown what will happen to his athleticism and quickness at age 28 -- and to how much his game will change and how effective he'll be.

There is a lot of unknowns about Derrick Rose. If we keep putting all our eggs in the 'Derrick will lead us to a championship as the lone alpha' basket -- we are in big trouble. I would do whatever it takes to bring in another top dog.

[Ctownbulls]

I just want to win a championship -- with or without Derrick Rose. I have serious doubts as to whether or not Rose will ever be the same player he was in 2011. And if he is, for how long will he play at that level? He's 24 and history has shown us that speed-based PG's frequently decline at age 28. Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, etc.

PG's who last longer (Andre Miller, John Stockton, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, etc) either were never lightning quick to begin with, seriously adapted their games, or were incredibly strong in an area that didn't require quickness to excell (GP with defense, Kidd/Miller/Stockton with passing). Steve Nash appears to be an exception -- as he's always had a ton of speed, has had a very long career, but developed a deadly perimeter shot.

To be fair, Derrick Rose is a different category of player than guys like Steve Francis and Marbury. He is quicker, stronger, more efficient, and signficantly more dominate than they ever were. But it is unknown what will happen to his athleticism and quickness at age 28 -- and to how much his game will change and how effective he'll be.

There is a lot of unknowns about Derrick Rose. If we keep putting all our eggs in the 'Derrick will lead us to a championship as the lone alpha' basket -- we are in big trouble. I would do whatever it takes to bring in another top dog.

Of course management should do that, regardless of whether or not they believe D.Rose will be the alpha dog down the road who will lead us to a championship. Problem is, management is incapable of delivering another top dog. They haven't been able to successfully do so in 15 years if you take out the D.Rose/1.7% luck situation.

[jmajew]

If it is true that Derrick Rose is not coming back becuse he does not feel right, then if I am the front office I have serious concerns if he will ever be the player he was again. That basically means Derrick Rose can not be considered a top 5 player who can carry his team to a title from a FO perspective going into this offseason. He may never feel right again.

From a long-term standpoint, I hope he is sitting out as protest against this team. If he is sitting out because he doesn't feel right, then the long-term view just got a lot gloomier. I think this is a big part of what has caused all the angst with fans. I think that is why we wish he would just come out and say he is protesting. We are mad that he is doing it in the short-term, but long-term it is better that this is the reason than he doesn't feel right.

[MalikJoakim24]

Come on D-Rose

[Pnjguy]

It depends on how you view the Bulls. Do you view the Bulls as an investment vehicle? Then yes.
I view owning NBA, NFL, MLB teams as investments that are going to keep going up and up and up.

Forbes recently valued the Bulls at $800million. I believe when Reinsdorf bought the Bulls he paid $16million in 1983. He then allowed all of his buddies to buy into the franchise for dirt cheap. So over the last 30 years his investment has been growing at annual rate of just under 14%.

Do we know how much money he has re-invested in the team over the last 30 years? No.

IMO any profit he makes off the team in a given year should be viewed as dividend. So hell yea I think the Bulls can afford to pay the repeater tax but I think there is good way to go about it and a bad way.

Letting Asik and Korver go bad move. As Gar famously said "They will make basketball decisions not financial ones", unfortunately that was not the case. The Bulls are a franchise that should be making decisions based on how it helps the team but they dont. Sorry about taking the thread off track for a bit.

Letting Asik and Korver was not entirely financial. It had ALOT to do about how the new CBA puts restrictions on things like the MLE for repeater tax teams. They need the MLE if they want to bring over Mirotic, there really is no other way.

[Jimako10]

lol lose game 1: this team is horse crap, trade everyone
win game 2: what if we win the finals????

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

If it is true that Derrick Rose is not coming back becuse he does not feel right, then if I am the front office I have serious concerns if he will ever be the player he was again. That basically means Derrick Rose can not be considered a top 5 player who can carry his team to a title from a FO perspective going into this offseason. He may never feel right again.

From a long-term standpoint, I hope he is sitting out as protest against this team. If he is sitting out because he doesn't feel right, then the long-term view just got a lot gloomier. I think this is a big part of what has caused all the angst with fans. I think that is why we wish he would just come out and say he is protesting. We are mad that he is doing it in the short-term, but long-term it is better that this is the reason than he doesn't feel right.

I'm convinced that Rose feels no worse than Rubio or Shump when they made their returns. The difference is that Derrick sees himself as a finely-tuned machine that can't operate unless all his parts are in factory condition.

[Midway Bully]

If it is true that Derrick Rose is not coming back becuse he does not feel right, then if I am the front office I have serious concerns if he will ever be the player he was again. That basically means Derrick Rose can not be considered a top 5 player who can carry his team to a title from a FO perspective going into this offseason. He may never feel right again.

From a long-term standpoint, I hope he is sitting out as protest against this team. If he is sitting out because he doesn't feel right, then the long-term view just got a lot gloomier. I think this is a big part of what has caused all the angst with fans. I think that is why we wish he would just come out and say he is protesting. We are mad that he is doing it in the short-term, but long-term it is better that this is the reason than he doesn't feel right.

I'm convinced that Rose feels no worse than Rubio or Shump when they made their returns. The difference is that Derrick sees himself as a finely-tuned machine that can't operate unless all his parts are in factory condition.

He's never going to get back on the court now, because surely he's refurbished?

[DuckIII]

Come on D-Rose

My god man, his knee is so gorked he's got to hold it together with his bare hands! I take it all back Pooh! Forgive me!

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

If it is true that Derrick Rose is not coming back becuse he does not feel right, then if I am the front office I have serious concerns if he will ever be the player he was again. That basically means Derrick Rose can not be considered a top 5 player who can carry his team to a title from a FO perspective going into this offseason. He may never feel right again.

From a long-term standpoint, I hope he is sitting out as protest against this team. If he is sitting out because he doesn't feel right, then the long-term view just got a lot gloomier. I think this is a big part of what has caused all the angst with fans. I think that is why we wish he would just come out and say he is protesting. We are mad that he is doing it in the short-term, but long-term it is better that this is the reason than he doesn't feel right.

I'm convinced that Rose feels no worse than Rubio or Shump when they made their returns. The difference is that Derrick sees himself as a finely-tuned machine that can't operate unless all his parts are in factory condition.

He's never going to get back on the court now, because surely he's refurbished?

Well that's kinda my fear. I mean of course he'll play again, but I wonder if when training camp rolls around he'll be disappointed that he still doesn't feel 'like new', 18 months after the injury.

[Carl25]

He needs to adjust to his 'new 100%', whatever that may be. Hopefully it's at least 95% of what he was before.

[theagent]

Chicago turned on DRose quick as ****. He deserves to stay out as long as he wants. Until the Bulls org is committed to putting a team together that can beat MIA wtfgas

[whonka]

Reinsdorf: I will pay luxury tax for a championship team that forms without me paying luxury tax.

Rose: I will return when a championship team forms without me returning.

[coldfish]

Chicago turned on DRose quick as ****. He deserves to stay out as long as he wants. Until the Bulls org is committed to putting a team together that can beat MIA wtfgas

The Bulls will probably never be able to put together a team that can beat Miami. Regardless of how much money they spend, how many trades they do, etc. Miami has a guy who is playing at near GOAT level with two other superstars. Chicago's chance was in 2010. They missed. Game over.

Should Rose retire?

[DASMACKDOWN]

Duck, I thought the repeater tax only applies if you are over a certain Lux tax threshold. We are pretty far from that major penalty threshold.

[DuckIII]

Reinsdorf: I will pay luxury tax for a championship team that forms without me paying luxury tax.

Rose: I will return when a championship team forms without me returning.

Nice summary.