Bulls Trade Rumors Only

[Dan Z]

We won’t pay the luxury tax so something will have to give. Resigning DeRozan, Williams and Drummond will put us right at the tax line. So basically exact same team plus our draft picks.

I haven't reviewed the numbers but I expect they may stretch-waive Ball to avoid the tax. Also I don't expect Demar to make any more than he does now, nor do I expect Patrick to make more than about 14 mil/year at the most, maybe only MLE money or the QO, whatever that is. I think they may work a trade with Patrick as well. Also I'm not so sure we won't pay the tax. If we win at least two real playoff games in the first round against a top 4 team in the east, I think they'll consider paying tax.

Pat is getting more than $14 million. There are lots of bad teams with cap space. All it takes is one.

How much do you think he'll get?

I'm wondering what his value will be on his next deal. Maybe he improves and it's steal? Unlikely, but possible. Or maybe he stays the same and his new contract is....well...maybe just ok? Or on the bad side? Either way keeping him is the right move right now IMO.

[Muzbar]

Wow, that is quite the guarantee. I guarantee A. But if not, I guarantee B. But if not A or B, I guarantee C.

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Ok, first of all there was only 2 guarantees. Fighting for a play-in spot and then losing if they do make it and the if by some miracle they do make the playoffs they'll get bounced first round.

If anything I made 2 guarantees, not guarantees with options.

The 2 are intertwined into one another, it's not like I said I guarantee the team misses the playoffs, unless they make it and then they'll go to the ECFs.

Are you saying the guarantees I made are unlikely?

You just mentioned 3 things again my friend. And it isn't a guarantee if you say "I guarantee A... but if not I guarantee B". It is impossible for both a and b to happen. You can't guarantee both. Which one are you guaranteeing?

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Please tell me these 3 things, so I can understand why you are confused.

If a player has a guaranteed contract with bonuses tied into if they reach a certain goal and they reach that goal, are they guaranteed to get both the contract they are already owed plus their bonus?

It's 2 separate guarantees.

I'll dumb it down, I guarantee that IF the Bulls make the playoffs (whether that be by making the play-in and winning or by nabbing the 6th seed), they won't make the 2nd round.

Is that better?

[WindyCityBorn]

Lauri is a top 15 player in the league by most advanced metrics. He's absolutely a franchise player, without question.

He's 11th in the league in PER this year and the only people ahead of him are all superstars.

Here's a list of players over the past two seasons who have scored at least 20 PPG on at least 64 TS%:

- Lauri
- Jokic
- Embiid
- Giannis
- Curry
- SGA
- KD
- Kawhi
- Lillard
- Jimmy
- Zion

Every single one of those players are bonafide superstars and franchise players.

Well what would 27 ppg on .634 be then?

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If you're referring to Zach from a few years ago, you should know I've always been a pretty big supporter of his. I believed he was a franchise player at that time, as did most of us.

Your definition of franchise player is way looser than mine. I have never thought Zach was a first option on a serious contender and neither is Lauri.

[_txchilibowl_]

I have a question for the board:

If Coby didn't improve and the Bulls record was similar to the Hornets (10-40) would AKME move in a new direction? Or would they decide not to for whatever reason?

If we were 10-40 I feel fairly confident we would be moving in a new direction. But we're not. So we didn't.

Do you have reason to believe that they would stand pat with a team that bad?

Are you suggesting that they'd add a vet or two? Or are you saying that they'd trade someone like Caruso and Drummond and then try something different?

They haven't shown that they'd move in a new direction, so I'm not sure why they would if the team was 10-40. Every year they keep pushing for the play-in.

I think they would trade every veteran they could in that scenario. Keep Coby and Pat and the other young guys. Total rebuild.

I think that's a totally different scenario than where the team is at right now. This team is competitive. Our young guys are developing. Why would they pull the plug on this now? And for what? Some meaningless, non-impactful draft picks?

I'm glad they're staying the course for now. It's the best option in this moment.

[WindyCityBorn]

My wish as a fan is for the Bulls to win a championship. It's obvious that won't happen under AK. The only way I see changes happening is if the rest of the season is a disaster. I'm hoping the Bulls finish poorly so AK gets fired. It sucks to root for losses, but ultimately that is the best thing for this organization.

I won’t root for losses, but I’m not against them at this point. Not making the playoffs is the best thing for this organization.

[WindyCityBorn]

If we were 10-40 I feel fairly confident we would be moving in a new direction. But we're not. So we didn't.

Do you have reason to believe that they would stand pat with a team that bad?

Are you suggesting that they'd add a vet or two? Or are you saying that they'd trade someone like Caruso and Drummond and then try something different?

They haven't shown that they'd move in a new direction, so I'm not sure why they would if the team was 10-40. Every year they keep pushing for the play-in.

I think they would trade every veteran they could in that scenario. Keep Coby and Pat and the other young guys. Total rebuild.

I think that's a totally different scenario than where the team is at right now. This team is competitive. Our young guys are developing. Why would they pull the plug on this now? And for what? Some meaningless, non-impactful draft picks?

I'm glad they're staying the course for now. It's the best option in this moment.

Why is it the best option now and when it not be the best option. When DeRazon and Vuc completely fall apart in a couple of years. What will we have accomplished by then? We already know this core isn’t good enough to win a playoffs. Not even good enough to avoid the play-in.

[_txchilibowl_]

My wish as a fan is for the Bulls to win a championship. It's obvious that won't happen under AK. The only way I see changes happening is if the rest of the season is a disaster. I'm hoping the Bulls finish poorly so AK gets fired. It sucks to root for losses, but ultimately that is the best thing for this organization.

I won’t root for losses, but I’m not against them at this point. Not making the playoffs is the best thing for this organization.

I feel completely differently. I think making the playoffs is the very best thing this organization can do. Now and for the future.

[WindyCityBorn]

My wish as a fan is for the Bulls to win a championship. It's obvious that won't happen under AK. The only way I see changes happening is if the rest of the season is a disaster. I'm hoping the Bulls finish poorly so AK gets fired. It sucks to root for losses, but ultimately that is the best thing for this organization.

I won’t root for losses, but I’m not against them at this point. Not making the playoffs is the best thing for this organization.

I feel completely differently. I think making the playoffs is the very best thing this organization can do. Now and for the future.

Why? For perception? Sure as Hell not for acquisition of talent. No stars are coming here because we keep making the play-in with a bunch of guys past their prime.

[_txchilibowl_]

Are you suggesting that they'd add a vet or two? Or are you saying that they'd trade someone like Caruso and Drummond and then try something different?

They haven't shown that they'd move in a new direction, so I'm not sure why they would if the team was 10-40. Every year they keep pushing for the play-in.

I think they would trade every veteran they could in that scenario. Keep Coby and Pat and the other young guys. Total rebuild.

I think that's a totally different scenario than where the team is at right now. This team is competitive. Our young guys are developing. Why would they pull the plug on this now? And for what? Some meaningless, non-impactful draft picks?

I'm glad they're staying the course for now. It's the best option in this moment.

Why is it the best option now and when it not be the best option. When DeRazon and Vuc completely fall apart in a couple of years. What will we have accomplished by then? We already know this core isn’t good enough to win a playoffs. Not even good enough to avoid the play-in.

I've said it a thousand times today. I want the culture of this franchise to change. Winning does that. I'd be advocating for them to make the play-in next year as well. If our roster ages out so be it. What will we have lost? Apparently not much by the rumored trade offers we received.

I believe trying to win now is more important than trying to win later. I think winning now begets winning later. It's not that complicated. It just takes patience. And an unwillingness to be a bottom feeder team.

[Dan Z]

If we were 10-40 I feel fairly confident we would be moving in a new direction. But we're not. So we didn't.

Do you have reason to believe that they would stand pat with a team that bad?

Are you suggesting that they'd add a vet or two? Or are you saying that they'd trade someone like Caruso and Drummond and then try something different?

They haven't shown that they'd move in a new direction, so I'm not sure why they would if the team was 10-40. Every year they keep pushing for the play-in.

I think they would trade every veteran they could in that scenario. Keep Coby and Pat and the other young guys. Total rebuild.

I think that's a totally different scenario than where the team is at right now. This team is competitive. Our young guys are developing. Why would they pull the plug on this now? And for what? Some meaningless, non-impactful draft picks?

I'm glad they're staying the course for now. It's the best option in this moment.

How far do you think the team will go this year?

Most people predict it'll either be the play-in or a first round exit. Neither result is very exciting nor does it make me think the team is in the right direction.

If AK ever does a total rebuild I'll be surprised based on everything he's said since getting the job.

[_txchilibowl_]

I won’t root for losses, but I’m not against them at this point. Not making the playoffs is the best thing for this organization.

I feel completely differently. I think making the playoffs is the very best thing this organization can do. Now and for the future.

Why? For perception? Sure as Hell not for acquisition of talent. No stars are coming here because we keep making the play-in with a bunch of guys past their prime.

Being successful isn't something that just happens. You have to create success from the top down. It's the same in any business. You create and nurture an environment that fosters success and that filters down to every employee/player.

Let me ask you...why do you think a team like the Miami Heat can annually take a bunch of undrafted players and turn them into quality roleplayers and key contributors? Is it that they're just smarter than every other team in the league? Is it that they're scouting department is just so much better?

Or is it because they've created something that every player understands the minute they walk through the door? They completely buy-in because they trust the people above them. That trust is earned by through consistency in hard work and a dedication to excellence.

You create that and you've created something that lasts beyond roster constructions. That kind of culture is generational.

[_txchilibowl_]

Are you suggesting that they'd add a vet or two? Or are you saying that they'd trade someone like Caruso and Drummond and then try something different?

They haven't shown that they'd move in a new direction, so I'm not sure why they would if the team was 10-40. Every year they keep pushing for the play-in.

I think they would trade every veteran they could in that scenario. Keep Coby and Pat and the other young guys. Total rebuild.

I think that's a totally different scenario than where the team is at right now. This team is competitive. Our young guys are developing. Why would they pull the plug on this now? And for what? Some meaningless, non-impactful draft picks?

I'm glad they're staying the course for now. It's the best option in this moment.

How far do you think the team will go this year?

Most people predict it'll either be the play-in or a first round exit. Neither result is very exciting nor does it make me think the team is in the right direction.

If AK ever does a total rebuild I'll be surprised based on everything he's said since getting the job.

How the team ends the season is somewhat irrelevant to me, honestly. I want to see growth. I want to see commitment to winning from the players and coaches. Both of those things are achievable.

[Dan Z]

I feel completely differently. I think making the playoffs is the very best thing this organization can do. Now and for the future.

Why? For perception? Sure as Hell not for acquisition of talent. No stars are coming here because we keep making the play-in with a bunch of guys past their prime.

Being successful isn't something that just happens. You have to create success from the top down. It's the same in any business. You create and nurture an environment that fosters success and that filters down to every employee/player.

Let me ask you...why do you think a team like the Miami Heat can annually take a bunch of undrafted players and turn them into quality roleplayers and key contributors? Is it that they're just smarter than every other team in the league? Is it that they're scouting department is just so much better?

Or is it because they've created something that every player understands the minute they walk through the door? They completely buy-in because they trust the people above them. That trust is earned by through consistency in hard work and a dedication to excellence.

You create that and you've created something that lasts beyond roster constructions. That kind of culture is generational.

For the Heat it's a combination of good coaching, good scouting and a good front office. If they picked someone like Ben Sheppard, instead of Jaime Jaquez Jr., then Ben Sheppard isn't going to suddenly be a better player because he's on the Heat (even though I do think that a strong culture helps).

Since AK got here the Bulls have been to the playoffs once (bounced quickly in the first round). They finished in 11th place, 6th place, then 10th and now are currently in 9th. Nobody is looking at Chicago as a winning team nor does it look like that will change any time soon.

[SfBull]

I don't think people realize that for the last 2 months, the Bulls have been a top 10 NBA team.

Do I think they are a conference title contender? No. But could they give a team hell in a first round playoff series? Sure.

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And you're happy with that?

As opposed to what? Hopefully, maybe, probably not be a title contender in 5 years?

Something better than a 1st round loser.

[Dan Z]

I think they would trade every veteran they could in that scenario. Keep Coby and Pat and the other young guys. Total rebuild.

I think that's a totally different scenario than where the team is at right now. This team is competitive. Our young guys are developing. Why would they pull the plug on this now? And for what? Some meaningless, non-impactful draft picks?

I'm glad they're staying the course for now. It's the best option in this moment.

How far do you think the team will go this year?

Most people predict it'll either be the play-in or a first round exit. Neither result is very exciting nor does it make me think the team is in the right direction.

If AK ever does a total rebuild I'll be surprised based on everything he's said since getting the job.

How the team ends the season is somewhat irrelevant to me, honestly. I want to see growth. I want to see commitment to winning from the players and coaches. Both of those things are achievable.

What kind of growth are you talking about? Yes, Coby and Ayo have improved. PW has been up and down and is currently hurt.

DDR? Looks like he's regressed a little bit. Vucevic? His three point shooting has fallen off a cliff.

Zach LaVine? He wants out and is currently not playing (out for the year).

If the team ends the year similar to last season (which is a possibility) then that means back-to-back losing seasons. Next year the Bulls will most likely be in a worse situation than they were going into 2024. Should we go for a three peat of bad seasons?

[SfBull]

All these fans in here calling this a mediocre team, but if this team was fully healthy, Coby's going back to the bench. That's how talented Ball, Lavine, and Derozan are. And that team is winning a lot of games, with White, Caruso, Ayo, Craig, Carter, Drummond off the bench. Probably a 3 or 4 seed at least.

This team is not mediocre in terms of talent.

Not a 3 or 4th seed either.The East changed since Ball's injury,we have the Pacers and Cavs as contenders ,not saying The Knicks who improved a lot .So you couldn't say for sure the Bulls would be an East contender if healthy.Most likely this team would be fighting for the 5th - 6th seed.

[_txchilibowl_]

How far do you think the team will go this year?

Most people predict it'll either be the play-in or a first round exit. Neither result is very exciting nor does it make me think the team is in the right direction.

If AK ever does a total rebuild I'll be surprised based on everything he's said since getting the job.

How the team ends the season is somewhat irrelevant to me, honestly. I want to see growth. I want to see commitment to winning from the players and coaches. Both of those things are achievable.

What kind of growth are you talking about? Yes, Coby and Ayo have improved. PW has been up and down and is currently hurt.

DDR? Looks like he's regressed a little bit. Vucevic? His three point shooting has fallen off a cliff.

Zach LaVine? He wants out and is currently not playing (out for the year).

If the team ends the year similar to last season (which is a possibility) then that means back-to-back losing seasons. Next year the Bulls will most likely be in a worse situation than they were going into 2024. Should we go for a three peat of bad seasons?

You said it ...growth from the young guys. I think that gets severely hampered if you toss the season down the drain.

[SfBull]

Killian Hayes was a top 7 pick and just got cut.

James Wiseman was a top 2 pick - is he getting $30m this summer??

The Vuc trade and re-signing has been bad, both in a vacuum, and within the context on this team.

Every other move has been good value, some have been good value but not the best fit.

AKME has shown absolutely zero ability to move on from poor moves. They'll double down like they've done over and over again. I would love to be proven wrong.

AKME views Pat as the future of this team. He's getting his bag, we should all prepare for it.

Honestly I would rather give Pat his first big deal than give DeMar his last one. We will do both though.

With both not deserving such big contracts,Pat for not playing so well and DDR for aging and declining at some point.

[Dan Z]

How the team ends the season is somewhat irrelevant to me, honestly. I want to see growth. I want to see commitment to winning from the players and coaches. Both of those things are achievable.

What kind of growth are you talking about? Yes, Coby and Ayo have improved. PW has been up and down and is currently hurt.

DDR? Looks like he's regressed a little bit. Vucevic? His three point shooting has fallen off a cliff.

Zach LaVine? He wants out and is currently not playing (out for the year).

If the team ends the year similar to last season (which is a possibility) then that means back-to-back losing seasons. Next year the Bulls will most likely be in a worse situation than they were going into 2024. Should we go for a three peat of bad seasons?

You said it ...growth from the young guys. I think that gets severely hampered if you toss the season down the drain.

Or perhaps the young players will get more opportunities to play and learn from it? At some point that's important.

For example, many people on this board have been pushing for Coby White to get the ball at the end of games instead of DDR. Is that a good idea? I'm not sure, but developing Coby is more important right now that DDR.

[step]

I've said it a thousand times today. I want the culture of this franchise to change. Winning does that.

Winning and accountability are two factors that come quickly to mind... to which a bit of the latter is lacking. Maybe they are saying the right things behind closed doors, but publicly, we seem to lack that acknowledgement of shortcomings. This is on the players, coaching staff and even management.

And also... we're not really winning now. Below 500 and our remaining schedule is supposedly not so kind. Basically, instead of relying on our own success, we're banking on the others to fall apart in order to book a play in. Which to be honest, I'm not even sure if we'd win.

If our roster ages out so be it. What will we have lost? Apparently not much by the rumored trade offers we received.

One advantage of making a move now would have been to further develop our youth. A big issue around Pat is wondering if he's worthy enough to justify a sizable extension. It would have been good to see how he'd fare moving up the food chain without Demar and Zach against proper competition instead of going against bench scrubs ... which is really the only time we've seen him as number 1 or 2.

That alone warranted a move in my view. Feature Pat as #2 or #3 and see if he shows any promise to justify a sizable extension. Or at least answer the question if someone offers something that makes us pause, we have further understanding whether to match or not.

And this doesn't even factor in what potential future picks and players that they may have gotten in return. Everyone keeps writing off 2nd rounders, but the last two deadlines have shown how much their value has increased (as they have been used a lot).

Word is ... we weren't even really listening to offers for a number of our players. So it's no surprise not much was offered. I want a FRP for Drummond or 2 FRPs + more for Caruso. That is just unrealistic.