Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[SteelerSpartan]

I see the FOs propaganda machine wasted little time with this one.

[Drellberg]

Jimmy Butler erred, which was to go public with something that should have been worked out in house. The nature of the error is understandable and, in fact, both constructive and hopeful. He wouldn't be saying this (publicly or privately) unless he felt that it would lead to significantly better performance, and better performance is what he is obviously after. Saying "Expect more from us" isn't exactly throwing teammates or coach under the bus. He mis-judged how the media and fans would react, and someone should pull him aside now and insist that he not elevate this any further.

I imagine that the head coach and FO are deliberate and patient. They are veterans. They know that this new offense and new culture will take time. I imagine that some players are impatient. They do not like losing to teams that they view as inferior. They know that there are short run fixes that might get them an extra win or two even as they set back the longer term plan. And ... They do not quite see the long plan.

Bulls are on a pace to win 49 games. Not great. But not especially bad either. If I am Hoiberg I stay the course. I admire and respect Butler for having such high expectations of himself, his teammates, his coaches.

This will pass.

[rtblues]

Whether or not Jimmy's method of delivering his message was appropriate or not, tell me honestly, does it appear that Fred Hoiberg is actually inspiring this team? Has he changed the offense or the culture very much?
If you ask me, Jimmy Butler gets a better performance review thus far than Fred Hoiberg.

[yellowknifer]

Dare I say, the players might be realizing the grass is not always greener?

I mean the little bit of good we still see in this team is the defensive philosophy, instilled by thibs. Specifically the team defense.

The specialty of offense that hoiberg was supposed to bring, we have not seen it executed and we are 25 games in. I refuse to believe that hoiberg is such a offensive guru that college kids from iowa can figure out his system but nba professionals cant?

Season just getting started.

I think sometimes it's a lot easier to get college kids to buy in than it is NBA players with large egos who have been around the game a long time.

Scratch sometimes. Make it all the time.

TO would love to trade Derozan to ya'll for Butler if there's any interest.

[coldfish]

Hey, that's my schtick!

Inaccurate in a court of law. We can't prove the FO released dirt on Jimmy. We just use our heads for things other than beer bong receptacles. Hope I made it less offensive to you, ya title cop.

Hasn't miss leading titles always been against form rules?

Yes


Allright, I'm suspending myself for letting that happen. I'm out like Mark K

Wait. I'm confused. KC actually cites sources in management when he goes off on Butler. There is no rational argument to be made that the front office didn't put this hit report out. They aren't even hiding the fact that they did it. Why is the thread title being changed?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/678617424581758976[/tweet]

[rtblues]

Recently, during a National TV game, I heard the comment to the effect of, "The Bulls don't seem to have an identity"...
Fred hasn't changed much of anything, the offense, the defense, the culture, and simply not a very good team, period.

This is way beyond Butler making some comments. It's about the false expectations that Hoiberg could transform the exact same roster from last year, (adding Portis - who doesn't play) into a dynamic, up-tempo offense team. Yeah, I don't think that Red Auerbach could have done this. However, we all know what the real issues are. Jimmy spoke about the elephant in the room, and it's making people nervous. Tough beans....

[vvn33]

I don't understand why people make such a big deal out of Jimmy calling out hoiberg in the media... Sure, he shouldn't have expressed it to the media before anyone else, but I don't dislike jimmy more fore it... I think someone had to call out hoiberg eventually for his laidback approach... NBA players need motivation and energy from their coach. In college, players are already motivated enough as it is... Learning curve for hoiberg, and Jimmy too. Glad someone said it though. Just shouldn't have been to media. He was clearly frustrated at that moment in time.

[musiqsoulchild]

Recently, during a National TV game, I heard the comment to the effect of, "The Bulls don't seem to have an identity"...
Fred hasn't changed much of anything, the offense, the defense, the culture, and simply not a very good team, period.

This is way beyond Butler making some comments. It's about the false expectations that Hoiberg could transform the exact same roster from last year, (adding Portis - who doesn't play) into a dynamic, up-tempo offense team. Yeah, I don't think that Red Auerbach could have done this. However, we all know what the real issues are. Jimmy spoke about the elephant in the room, and it's making people nervous. Tough beans....

You can't set an identity in your first 25 NBA games with a hand-me-down roster.

Ask Brad Stevens in his first Year, or Billy Donovan now, or even Thibs through his first 25 games.

Culture change takes time and buy-in. Clearly, Hoiberg hasn't had enough of either. That's not an indictment of him yet - but more so a function of time. Give h more of it - it's the sensible thing to do.

[blumeany]

I feel for Fred. He was hired to make creamed corn out of GarPax's creamed crap. He was hired to prove that Thibs was wrong and they were right. All that is happening now is that the better coach you are paying is travelling the country watching games and the other one you are paying is drowning in your own sea of ****. Butler shouldn't have called out his coach, but this is indicative of a much larger problem - the front office.

[Hangtime84]

Recently, during a National TV game, I heard the comment to the effect of, "The Bulls don't seem to have an identity"...
Fred hasn't changed much of anything, the offense, the defense, the culture, and simply not a very good team, period.

This is way beyond Butler making some comments. It's about the false expectations that Hoiberg could transform the exact same roster from last year, (adding Portis - who doesn't play) into a dynamic, up-tempo offense team. Yeah, I don't think that Red Auerbach could have done this. However, we all know what the real issues are. Jimmy spoke about the elephant in the room, and it's making people nervous. Tough beans....

You can't set an identity in your first 25 NBA games with a hand-me-down roster.

Ask Brad Stevens in his first Year, or Billy Donovan now, or even Thibs through his first 25 games.

Culture change takes time and buy-in. Clearly, Hoiberg hasn't had enough of either. That's not an indictment of him yet - but more so a function of time. Give h more of it - it's the sensible thing to do.

No fans wants changes right now!

Season has been much BS when FO brought back same team from last year idiots move.

Therefore this season is all about internal improvement. Jimmy, Doug ( who trained with Jimmy), and Kirk are the only guys who truly improved.

I am disappointed in both snell and niko but I'm fine with it atm.

Bulls are responding to the defense better than what thibs scheme was. Sometimes the orginator doesn't adapt.

Adjustments can be easier made next off season.

[League Circles]

So, looks as if the FO has come out guns blazin'. Giving Jimmy the Thibs treatment.

It really is quite amazing how fast he can dig up information when someone opposite the FO needs to be gassed down.

But when there is trouble internally in their realm, suddenly he becomes a know nothing, quiet as a mouse.

Next up, Sam Smith takes sideswipes at Butler in his "Ask Sam" column.

Anyway, this team's house looks to be a mess, and I think all Jimmy did was probably lift up the rug a little and let some light in.

The only part of the house that we have evidence to think is a mess is Jimmy's bedroom. I don't know if Smith and KC are moutpieces for the FO (I tend to think they're not - too risky for their now established careers), but your bolded comment is frankly ridiculous.

A Bulls player just made inappropriately public comments undermining his coach's tactics and philosophy. That's the only thing that happened. What did Jimmy shed some light on? What?

[League Circles]

For the record, I'm down on Jimmy for doing this, but, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to STFU and put it behind the team. There is no reason that this has to ruin the team. It might, but it doesn't have to.

[MC3]

For the record, I'm down on Jimmy for doing this, but, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to STFU and put it behind the team. There is no reason that this has to ruin the team. It might, but it doesn't have to.

What Jimmy basically did was more than just double edged sword. And this is not some 50% chance it will work and 50% it will not type of move. What I meant to say there is much bigger possiblity Jimmy basically ended our season than we will from now on be some amazing team.

And that will not happen unless trades occur. Cause this team sucks. It sucked under last coach, It sucks now. It lacks talent and production on backup PG/wing rotations and star on C. This team in first place should never be brought back for another season. But this is not justifying Jimmy's action to call them all out publicly.

[League Circles]

Not as lame as inaccurate thread titles

Hey, that's my schtick!

Inaccurate in a court of law. We can't prove the FO released dirt on Jimmy. We just use our heads for things other than beer bong receptacles. Hope I made it less offensive to you, ya title cop.

Just curious how you and others imagine something like this went down. Do you actually, honestly think that Jimmy made a comment against Fred, and someone in the FO called up KC, told him the "dirt" on Butler, and then said "publish that dirt"?

To me, extremely more plausible, is that KC knew the dirt before Jimmy said what he said, and only felt compelled to publish it after Jimmy said what he said, as a way to balance and make the story more interesting.

There has always been so much more to lose for the FO and writers than for them to gain by following the narrative of behavior that is so frequently claimed on this board.

Do the Bulls or KC really have anything to gain by releasing this "dirt" on command from FO to independent writer to offset what they have to lose in integrity by that becoming public, that the Bulls FO directs KC and tribune on what to publish?

I don't think that's plausible at all.

[DuckIII]

For the record, I'm down on Jimmy for doing this, but, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to STFU and put it behind the team. There is no reason that this has to ruin the team. It might, but it doesn't have to.

Hopefully he says something about it before tonight's game. If he doesn't, that's quite a long time to elapse without an apology or clarification, which suggests that he's dug in.

Sidenote: This thread is disappointing and illustrates how badly dug in people have become on their own personal agendas. It doesn't even matter what the subject is anymore around here, it gets manipulated. Its Rose's fault. Its the FOs fault. Its Hoiberg's fault. I almost know what every post is basically going to say based on the username.

Jesus. Jimmy Butler should not have publicly called out his coach and teammates, putting himself on an island. Particularly in this context. That is universally accepted as bad sports form, poor leadership, and counterproductive. When LeBron used to do it, this board fell all over themselves blasting him as a diva.

That doesn't mean Jimmy can't correct the situation or learn from it, or that at the end of the day it proves to be a galvanizing moment for the team despite being ill conceived. But it was a mistake, and it was his mistake.

[League Circles]

For the record, I'm down on Jimmy for doing this, but, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to STFU and put it behind the team. There is no reason that this has to ruin the team. It might, but it doesn't have to.

What Jimmy basically did was more than just double edged sword. And this is not some 50% chance it will work and 50% it will not type of move. What I meant to say there is much bigger possiblity Jimmy basically ended our season than we will from now on be some amazing team.

And that will not happen unless trades occur. Cause this team sucks. It sucked under last coach, It sucks now. It lacks talent and production on backup PG/wing rotations and star on C.

I agree with your general sentiment, which is why I'm pissed at Jimmy. We don't suck, but we're certainly not super strong.

[DuckIII]

Not as lame as inaccurate thread titles

Hey, that's my schtick!

Inaccurate in a court of law. We can't prove the FO released dirt on Jimmy. We just use our heads for things other than beer bong receptacles. Hope I made it less offensive to you, ya title cop.

Just curious how you and others imagine something like this went down. Do you actually, honestly think that Jimmy made a comment against Fred, and someone in the FO called up KC, told him the "dirt" on Butler, and then said "publish that dirt"?

To me, extremely more plausible, is that KC knew the dirt before Jimmy said what he said, and only felt compelled to publish it after Jimmy said what he said, as a way to balance and make the story more interesting.

There has always been so much more to lose for the FO and writers than for them to gain by following the narrative of behavior that is so frequently claimed on this board.

Do the Bulls or KC really have anything to gain by releasing this "dirt" on command from FO to independent writer to offset what they have to lose in integrity by that becoming public, that the Bulls FO directs KC and tribune on what to publish?

I don't think that's plausible at all.

Eh, I think its plausible. I don't think the FO manipulates the media to the extent of their reputation, but there's little doubt they pick and choose to do it at times. This looks like one of those times.

And it was either a bad idea due to hurt feelings, or it was born of desperation because the situation is even way, way worse behind the scenes than even the KC article reveals. Either way, its a mess.

[Indomitable]

Recently, during a National TV game, I heard the comment to the effect of, "The Bulls don't seem to have an identity"...
Fred hasn't changed much of anything, the offense, the defense, the culture, and simply not a very good team, period.

This is way beyond Butler making some comments. It's about the false expectations that Hoiberg could transform the exact same roster from last year, (adding Portis - who doesn't play) into a dynamic, up-tempo offense team. Yeah, I don't think that Red Auerbach could have done this. However, we all know what the real issues are. Jimmy spoke about the elephant in the room, and it's making people nervous. Tough beans....

You can't set an identity in your first 25 NBA games with a hand-me-down roster.

Ask Brad Stevens in his first Year, or Billy Donovan now, or even Thibs through his first 25 games.

Culture change takes time and buy-in. Clearly, Hoiberg hasn't had enough of either. That's not an indictment of him yet - but more so a function of time. Give h more of it - it's the sensible thing to do.

No fans wants changes right now!

Season has been much BS when FO brought back same team from last year idiots move.

Therefore this season is all about internal improvement. Jimmy, Doug ( who trained with Jimmy), and Kirk are the only guys who truly improved.

I am disappointed in both snell and niko but I'm fine with it atm.

Bulls are responding to the defense better than what thibs scheme was. Sometimes the orginator doesn't adapt.

Adjustments can be easier made next off season.

Jimmy should have help Doug stop stinking on defense because he looks like a YMCA player out there.

[Ice Man]

The Bulls ... last year, the FO released hit reports on the team's coach. This year,on its best player.

[League Circles]

Hasn't miss leading titles always been against form rules?

Yes


Allright, I'm suspending myself for letting that happen. I'm out like Mark K

Wait. I'm confused. KC actually cites sources in management when he goes off on Butler. There is no rational argument to be made that the front office didn't put this hit report out. They aren't even hiding the fact that they did it. Why is the thread title being changed?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/678617424581758976[/tweet]

Are you of the understanding that the tweet in your post supports the bolded sentence?