Options to fix the PF hole

[PrimzyBulls81]

Is there a player that's 6'9 and plays like Javonte Green? Too bad the guy is 6'4, a taller version of him would be perfect.

Herb Jones. Well, 6'8 and long, so close enough.

He is listed as 6'7 SF on NBA ESPN.

[HOTCARL_o]

Is there a player that's 6'9 and plays like Javonte Green? Too bad the guy is 6'4, a taller version of him would be perfect.

Herb Jones. Well, 6'8 and long, so close enough.

He is listed as 6'7 SF on NBA ESPN.

Looks like he was a steal in the second round, like the Pelican's Ayo. Doubt they're looking to trade him anytime soon

[kodo]

I'm against trading PWill for Grant. Grant can't play 48 minutes, and who starts when Grant gets is injured or just playing badly? Trading one of our few real PFs in size for another PF doesn't make us any better. Derrick Jones is likely outgoing in the trade or either way gone after this season, same for Troy Brown.

If we trade 3 power forwards for 1 PF (Williams, Jones, Brown for Grant) we're in a worse situation, not better. And plus Grant puts us into the lux tax, making acquiring another PF in the off season incredibly difficult.

Bulls are stupidly guard heavy. A guard has to be outgoing, not the position of need. We have so many guards we're playing them at the 4 to get them minutes, and the defense reflects that.

[sco]

I'm against trading PWill for Grant. Grant can't play 48 minutes, and who starts when Grant gets is injured or just playing badly? Trading one of our few real PFs in size for another PF doesn't make us any better. Derrick Jones is likely outgoing in the trade or either way gone after this season, same for Troy Brown.

If we trade 3 power forwards for 1 PF (Williams, Jones, Brown for Grant) we're in a worse situation, not better. And plus Grant puts us into the lux tax, making acquiring another PF in the off season incredibly difficult.

Bulls are stupidly guard heavy. A guard has to be outgoing, not the position of need. We have so many guards we're playing them at the 4 to get them minutes, and the defense reflects that.

Ok, but don't confuse quantity with quality. Grant + Cook or McKinnie > Pat + DJJ

[MGB8]

Is there a player that's 6'9 and plays like Javonte Green? Too bad the guy is 6'4, a taller version of him would be perfect.

Herb Jones. Well, 6'8 and long, so close enough.

He is listed as 6'7 SF on NBA ESPN.

Basketball reference has him at 6'8. Draft combine has him at 6'7.25 w/ shoes (I guess NBA is back to listing height with shoes?) but with an 8'10 standing reach - same as the 6'9.25 in shoes Jalen Johnson and a half inch less than 6'8 in shoes but not as athletic PJ Washington and the Bulls' own (for now) Tyler Cook. Jones also has a 7'0.25 wingspan.

He plays the 4 (and some tiny-ball 5) for the Pelicans, despite being more of a transplanted 3.

Given that Caruso isn't going anywhere, and Coby likely isn't going anywhere for this season either, I think an Ayo for Herb Jones swap makes sense. Makes sense for the Pels, too, longer term, assuming Zion comes back.

[nomorezorro]

I'm against trading PWill for Grant. Grant can't play 48 minutes, and who starts when Grant gets is injured or just playing badly? Trading one of our few real PFs in size for another PF doesn't make us any better.

i think the theory is, if you trade a player who is presently not very good for a player who is currently good, that actually does make your team better even if they play the same position.

[bad knees]

Green is tiny as a factual matter and is filling in admirably at a position he would never normally play on any team with real postseason aspirations. He’s been great. But he’s not good enough. That isn’t running anyone down.

Green is 6'5", strong, quick, tough-minded, can jump out of the gym, and has a 6'10" wingspan. He certainly is not ideal size for a PF, but it seems a bit of an overstatement to refer to him as "tiny." He will and should continue to see substantial minutes at the 4 even if we bring in a bigger guy.

Is PJ Tucker (6'5") or Jae Crowder (6'6") tiny? MIA and PHX seem to be doing very well with them as starters at the PF position. Green has essentially the same dimensions as them, and while they may have more heft, Javonte is strong and much more athletic.

[jump]

Is there a player that's 6'9 and plays like Javonte Green? Too bad the guy is 6'4, a taller version of him would be perfect.

Herb Jones. Well, 6'8 and long, so close enough.

He is listed as 6'7 SF on NBA ESPN.

Yes, but his wingspan is 7' 2.25". That's makes him a much bigger player.

[jump]

Herb Jones. Well, 6'8 and long, so close enough.

He is listed as 6'7 SF on NBA ESPN.

Yes, but his wingspan is 7' 2.25". That's makes him a much bigger player.

Oops. This is a mistaken post. But It doesn't want to be deleted. Washington is the one with the 7' 2.25" wingspan.

[Clocian]

Harrison Barnes has been mentioned in trade rumors for more than a year and there is a "rising belief around the league" that the Sacramento Kings will pull the trigger on a deal by the deadline in February.

Barnes signed a four-year, $85 million deal with the Kings in 2019 as a free agent.

Barnes remains one of the league's better three-and-D small forwards with the ability to also play small ball four. 

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/265444/Rising-Belief-Kings-Will-Trade-Harrison-Barnes-By-Deadline

[PrimzyBulls81]

Herb Jones. Well, 6'8 and long, so close enough.

He is listed as 6'7 SF on NBA ESPN.

Basketball reference has him at 6'8. Draft combine has him at 6'7.25 w/ shoes (I guess NBA is back to listing height with shoes?) but with an 8'10 standing reach - same as the 6'9.25 in shoes Jalen Johnson and a half inch less than 6'8 in shoes but not as athletic PJ Washington and the Bulls' own (for now) Tyler Cook. Jones also has a 7'0.25 wingspan.

He plays the 4 (and some tiny-ball 5) for the Pelicans, despite being more of a transplanted 3.

Given that Caruso isn't going anywhere, and Coby likely isn't going anywhere for this season either, I think an Ayo for Herb Jones swap makes sense. Makes sense for the Pels, too, longer term, assuming Zion comes back.

Ayo aint going nowhere! No way..

[sco]

He is listed as 6'7 SF on NBA ESPN.

Basketball reference has him at 6'8. Draft combine has him at 6'7.25 w/ shoes (I guess NBA is back to listing height with shoes?) but with an 8'10 standing reach - same as the 6'9.25 in shoes Jalen Johnson and a half inch less than 6'8 in shoes but not as athletic PJ Washington and the Bulls' own (for now) Tyler Cook. Jones also has a 7'0.25 wingspan.

He plays the 4 (and some tiny-ball 5) for the Pelicans, despite being more of a transplanted 3.

Given that Caruso isn't going anywhere, and Coby likely isn't going anywhere for this season either, I think an Ayo for Herb Jones swap makes sense. Makes sense for the Pels, too, longer term, assuming Zion comes back.

Ayo aint going nowhere! No way..

I don't mind the idea. That said, it's highly unlikely either team trades rookies who are playing well...even for another one.

I'll say this though. We have other backups of Caruso, TBJ, DJJ and Bradley. That group needs a guy who can get his own shot. Purely from a roster balance perspective this season, if some team valued Ayo highly enough to be a key piece that brings us back a more legit starting PF, I'd probably do it (obviously depending on who) as Ayo is pretty similar to Caruso, and White is the better fit off the bench. Now that said, I really like Ayo and could see him become one of the elite 2-way players in the league in a few years.

[Dan Z]

Herb Jones. Well, 6'8 and long, so close enough.

He is listed as 6'7 SF on NBA ESPN.

Basketball reference has him at 6'8. Draft combine has him at 6'7.25 w/ shoes (I guess NBA is back to listing height with shoes?) but with an 8'10 standing reach - same as the 6'9.25 in shoes Jalen Johnson and a half inch less than 6'8 in shoes but not as athletic PJ Washington and the Bulls' own (for now) Tyler Cook. Jones also has a 7'0.25 wingspan.

He plays the 4 (and some tiny-ball 5) for the Pelicans, despite being more of a transplanted 3.

Given that Caruso isn't going anywhere, and Coby likely isn't going anywhere for this season either, I think an Ayo for Herb Jones swap makes sense. Makes sense for the Pels, too, longer term, assuming Zion comes back.

Herb Jones seems like a good player, but I'd be hesitant to trade Ayo. 1. Ayo is playing well overall and 2. He has chemistry with players on the team (something I wouldn't want to mess with right now).

[MGB8]

Basketball reference has him at 6'8. Draft combine has him at 6'7.25 w/ shoes (I guess NBA is back to listing height with shoes?) but with an 8'10 standing reach - same as the 6'9.25 in shoes Jalen Johnson and a half inch less than 6'8 in shoes but not as athletic PJ Washington and the Bulls' own (for now) Tyler Cook. Jones also has a 7'0.25 wingspan.

He plays the 4 (and some tiny-ball 5) for the Pelicans, despite being more of a transplanted 3.

Given that Caruso isn't going anywhere, and Coby likely isn't going anywhere for this season either, I think an Ayo for Herb Jones swap makes sense. Makes sense for the Pels, too, longer term, assuming Zion comes back.

Ayo aint going nowhere! No way..

I don't mind the idea. That said, it's highly unlikely either team trades rookies who are playing well...even for another one.

I'll say this though. We have other backups of Caruso, TBJ, DJJ and Bradley. That group needs a guy who can get his own shot. Purely from a roster balance perspective this season, if some team valued Ayo highly enough to be a key piece that brings us back a more legit starting PF, I'd probably do it (obviously depending on who) as Ayo is pretty similar to Caruso, and White is the better fit off the bench. Now that said, I really like Ayo and could see him become one of the elite 2-way players in the league in a few years.

That is why I like the idea of that trade. Caruso is guard 3. White right now brings something different and is guard 4. Javonte Green used to be listed as a guard, even though he's more a wing.

Both in terms of this year and the next couple (where DJJ and TBJ are likely gone), adding a combo forward with some size to the group of Pat and the truly undersized Javonte, along with DD at the 3, makes a lot of sense to me.

Yes, Ayo could be a Jrue Holiday level player if everything works out perfectly. But Herb Jones could be an AK47 type guy. Meanwhile, Ayo still has Ball, LaVine and Caruso ahead of him - and White (at least for now) in the mix as well.

[nomorezorro]

it's an intriguing trade idea that almost certainly wouldn't happen in real life.

unless it's make-or-break for a can't miss deal, it's hard for me to imagine us trading the beloved hometown kid in the middle of his surprisingly good rookie season. the same is even more true for jones, who is one of the only bright spots the pelicans have in a pretty bleak season. no use getting the fanbase mad just to get a better-fitting player who probably still ultimately has a role player ceiling

[HomoSapien]

Harrison Barnes has been mentioned in trade rumors for more than a year and there is a "rising belief around the league" that the Sacramento Kings will pull the trigger on a deal by the deadline in February.

Barnes signed a four-year, $85 million deal with the Kings in 2019 as a free agent.

Barnes remains one of the league's better three-and-D small forwards with the ability to also play small ball four. 

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/265444/Rising-Belief-Kings-Will-Trade-Harrison-Barnes-By-Deadline

It never really gets mentioned, but Barnes has championship experience. Adding another guy who can bring that to the table isn't exactly the worst thing.

[HomoSapien]

Green is tiny as a factual matter and is filling in admirably at a position he would never normally play on any team with real postseason aspirations. He’s been great. But he’s not good enough. That isn’t running anyone down.

Green is 6'5", strong, quick, tough-minded, can jump out of the gym, and has a 6'10" wingspan. He certainly is not ideal size for a PF, but it seems a bit of an overstatement to refer to him as "tiny." He will and should continue to see substantial minutes at the 4 even if we bring in a bigger guy.

Is PJ Tucker (6'5") or Jae Crowder (6'6") tiny? MIA and PHX seem to be doing very well with them as starters at the PF position. Green has essentially the same dimensions as them, and while they may have more heft, Javonte is strong and much more athletic.

I personally don't buy Green being 6'5". He seems significantly smaller than Tucker and Crowder. I know he's listed as 6'5" now, but in previous seasons he was listed as 6'4". That's not to take away from his great efforts at the 4, but I do think he's just in a different size and weight class than even your typical small-ball four and eventually - unless we're throwing out what 75 years of basketball has taught us -- that lack of height will catch up with us.

[bad knees]

Green is tiny as a factual matter and is filling in admirably at a position he would never normally play on any team with real postseason aspirations. He’s been great. But he’s not good enough. That isn’t running anyone down.

Green is 6'5", strong, quick, tough-minded, can jump out of the gym, and has a 6'10" wingspan. He certainly is not ideal size for a PF, but it seems a bit of an overstatement to refer to him as "tiny." He will and should continue to see substantial minutes at the 4 even if we bring in a bigger guy.

Is PJ Tucker (6'5") or Jae Crowder (6'6") tiny? MIA and PHX seem to be doing very well with them as starters at the PF position. Green has essentially the same dimensions as them, and while they may have more heft, Javonte is strong and much more athletic.

I personally don't buy Green being 6'5". He seems significantly smaller than Tucker and Crowder. I know he's listed as 6'5" now, but in previous seasons he was listed as 6'4". That's not to take away from his great efforts at the 4, but I do think he's just in a different size and weight class than even your typical small-ball four and eventually - unless we're throwing out what 75 years of basketball has taught us -- that lack of height will catch up with us.

I agree that I would prefer that the Bulls acquire a PF with more size - I've said that on multiple occasions. I just think that some folks, in making that argument, are overstating Green's limitations and understating his strengths. If for some reason the Bulls do not trade for a bigger PF by the deadline, I'll be fine - I imagine that there will be others who will see it as an absolute unmitigated disaster.

[HomoSapien]

Green is 6'5", strong, quick, tough-minded, can jump out of the gym, and has a 6'10" wingspan. He certainly is not ideal size for a PF, but it seems a bit of an overstatement to refer to him as "tiny." He will and should continue to see substantial minutes at the 4 even if we bring in a bigger guy.

Is PJ Tucker (6'5") or Jae Crowder (6'6") tiny? MIA and PHX seem to be doing very well with them as starters at the PF position. Green has essentially the same dimensions as them, and while they may have more heft, Javonte is strong and much more athletic.

I personally don't buy Green being 6'5". He seems significantly smaller than Tucker and Crowder. I know he's listed as 6'5" now, but in previous seasons he was listed as 6'4". That's not to take away from his great efforts at the 4, but I do think he's just in a different size and weight class than even your typical small-ball four and eventually - unless we're throwing out what 75 years of basketball has taught us -- that lack of height will catch up with us.

I agree that I would prefer that the Bulls acquire a PF with more size - I've said that on multiple occasions. I just think that some folks, in making that argument, are overstating Green's limitations and understating his strengths. If for some reason the Bulls do not trade for a bigger PF by the deadline, I'll be fine - I imagine that there will be others who will see it as an absolute unmitigated disaster.

To me it's a bigger disaster against Giannis. I actually think that DJJ is a pretty solid player to matchup with KD given his length and mobility. KD is also the most skilled scorer on the planet so he'll ultimately toast whoever we bring in, but with Giannis despite how great he is, he still has certain limitations on offense that you can exploit at fleeting moments. If he's able to easily grab offensive rebounds and back down deep into the post whenever he wants, you're setting the table for him to easily do what exactly makes him so great and special.

[ChettheJet]

With the hope that Zach is only out a week or so and Caruso comes back quickly, Green and Jones eventually and Williams can show up for the playoffs. I'm willing to consider trading Coby White who 'league sources' say could be available for an upgrade at the 4 for the Bulls.

Upgrade being the key phrase.

I'd be looking at the Wizards. At some point Hachimura will come back, Thomas Bryant is due back soon and they will have way too many players, especially in the front court, making way too much money for a middle of the pack team. Add to that the recent locker room match between Harrell and KCP, they're going to be open to making moves for chemistry and financial considerations

Now it's not like the Bulls can step in and solve all their issues but they could be part of it. So I'm sending White, DJJ and the PORT pick for Kyle Kuzma and one somebody from Hachimura, Harrell, Kispert, Avdija, Todd. No I don't include TRJ because ASH doesn't need more bodies on an already crowded roster. This clears their active overload and saves them a lot of money on Kuzma.

Here's where that PORT pick probably NOT being conveyed this year is important and gains in value. Besides a roster of players under contract WASH has their FRP in 2022 but their lottery protected 2023 pick is due to OKC. So by that time they could clear out the parts of the current roster they don't want and replace their missing 2023 pick. Combine that with the expiring contract of the now injured DJJ and White being up for an extension or he becomes a RFA and they move him the Wiz clear both salary and roster spots

Now the Bulls get the instant upgrade at the PF, plus whoever they get from list of guys off the bench. Yes Kuzma is signed for 2 years plus a player option but he's been playing well enough since leaving LAL to be a key piece for the Bulls.

Right now he starts next to DeRozan and Vucevic. If Billy continues with the early substitution pattern of taking out Demar and Ball it would be Caruso and Dosunmo coming in and Kuzma is more of a scoring factor.

But next year is when this deal really pays off, PW returns and either he or Kuzman starts with DeRozan and Vucevic. When the early substitution comes one of them comes in for DeRozan with Patrick becoming the SF. Later as things shift if Vuc sits down for DeRozan in a small lineup PW and KK become interchangeable 4/5. It also means Caruso plays more minutes at PG and maybe none at PF. Does this put them into the luxury tax? Likely but Reinsdorf has said he'd pay for a championship chance and AK has said he didn't just want a one year shot, he wanted to build a team that would be there every year, which with the length of Kuzma's deal matching Zach, Demar, Lonzo, Alex I think that accomplishes that goal.