Deng to GS PG.13 / PG.43 Bulls Say Otherwise

[Ralphb07]

The only way I see Deng traded is if Toronto does Davis and 8 for him or Sac does Evan, 5 and doesn't make us take on Salmons. I don't see Sac budging at all. Maybe Toronto caves and decides to amnesty Calderon to get the space needed if Nash says yes.


Other than that I agree that a Deng deal is VERY unlikely.

[whodey]

No, my point is that Deng's defense is overrated. He is an amazing 1 on 1 defender, even a pretty good help defender (rotates well) but he doesn't block shots, and he doesn't eat up space in the paint.

If you replace Deng with a below average defensive SF, and you replace Boozer with an elite defensive PF (like Taj), than our defense gets about 1000% better.

PF's and C's are the 2 most important defenders on the floor because they're the last line of defense, anything inside should have to go through them. When Boozer is on the floor teams run a layup drill on him.

TLDR; If Bulls can replace Deng with a better offensive player, you do it. Then you get rid of Boozer next offseason. I would say get rid of him this season, but we all know Jerry's cheap ass isn't going to pay Boozer not to play.

Bruce Bowen averaged .8 stls and .4 blocks per game in his career and is considered one of the best defenders in NBA history. There are two players that play the SF position that can score on Deng at will : Lebron James and Kevin Durant. The fact that we actually have the balls to play both those guys one on one is impressive and it's all because of Deng. Durant is an above average shooter than Lebron, making it easier for him to score on Deng. If you give Thibs and Deng a playoff series on Durant, I think you'd see more physical defense on the ball defense as an adjustment. The fact that we've played the Thunder a whopping 3 times over the last 2 years is just not a large enough sample size. As for Lebron, Deng does everything right against him, it's just that for some reason, Lebron hits all his jump shots against us. The way he scored on the Celtics and Thunder, that's not what he does against Chicago. We always play him on the perimeter. Deng just has had bad luck. Trade Deng for a rookie SF, and look forward to help defense consistently against the Heat which will lead to open jump shots and layups for the entire Heat team.

[kulaz3000]

Deng helps the team defense. He guards 2-3-4. You're missing your own point.

No, my point is that Deng's defense is overrated. He is an amazing 1 on 1 defender, even a pretty good help defender (rotates well) but he doesn't block shots, and he doesn't eat up space in the paint.[/quote]

You say he is an amazing 1 on 1 defender, and a pretty good help defender then you say he doesn't block enough shots or eat up space in the paint? Are you joking?

He is a small forward, how many block shots do you expect him to get? And he is primary small forward player, he isn't suppose to clog up the paint. You're talking about a center, not a small forward.

If you replace Deng with a below average defensive SF, and you replace Boozer with an elite defensive PF (like Taj), than our defense gets about 1000% better.

True, but then our offense likely will go down the toilet.

PF's and C's are the 2 most important defenders on the floor because they're the last line of defense, anything inside should have to go through them. When Boozer is on the floor teams run a layup drill on him.

True, but not having solid wing defenders, puts extreme pressure on big defenders, which often results in foul trouble for big men. You want strong defenders at the point of your defense, to direct them where you want to go, so the bigs can be the last line of defense, not the first line.

TLDR; If Bulls can replace Deng with a better offensive player, you do it. Then you get rid of Boozer next offseason. I would say get rid of him this season, but we all know Jerry's cheap ass isn't going to pay Boozer not to play.

You talk as though, it's Jerry's money, and Jerry's money alone. Get your facts right. When you're dealing with millions and millions of dollars, which is not only Jerry's money, but a handful of other investors, it's not about being "cheap", it's about being smart. I'd like to see anyone buy themselves a $50,000 car, and then just dump it on the streets with the keys inside, because it didn't fulfill your needs after a few months. Yeah, freaking right.

[MrFortune3]

You want to trade for an inferior player and leave a hole at power forward? Too many people on this board want to see the Bulls lose. I don't like that.

inferior how? Gordon at least pretends to play defense instead of the matador defense employed by Boozer.

Gordon is a shooter and can score like a mother. he addresses the main issue the Bulls have in lack of a 2nd scorer and a consistent shooter.
Boozer has just not been able to repeat his performance from Utah in terms of scoring and rebounding.

Taj plays key minutes in the 4th and is in for defensive purposes in most crucial moments.
i'm not saying lets trade Boozer so we can tank. i'm saying trading Boozer's contract for a guy like Gordon who can excel in a key role that we've missed since he left is a good idea.

[cubd8]

The only way I see Deng traded is if Toronto does Davis and 8 for him or Sac does Evan, 5 and doesn't make us take on Salmons. I don't see Sac budging at all. Maybe Toronto caves and decides to amnesty Calderon to get the space needed if Nash says yes.


Other than that I agree that a Deng deal is VERY unlikely.

If the Bulls are attempting to save money with Deng, what sense does it make to take back Evans?

Saying that if the Bulls were offered Evans and the #5 for Deng, how can they pass on that?

[whodey]

Kulaz, I love the post, looks like we had our own way to respond, but great points.

[cubd8]

Random summer time useless thoughts.

- Our FO doesn't talk to the papers and then pulls off said trade.
- Could GSW be a smokescreen to drum up interest from a nearby neighbor...say Sacto who is only being talked about via us and the internet (but not in the papers).

I wonder if the Bay area paper just reads RealGM. I mean, there could be some mad web surfing reporters that read boards closely, find out who has legit track records and then use them to throw rumors off the wall.

I was thinking GS could be a smoke screen as well today.

So you're thinking that there is a real possibility that Chicago is still talking with Sacramento or Toronto?

[thedarkstark]

You guys are missing my point.

My point is that if you can replace Deng with a better scorer (number 5 or 8 pick ?) You do it.

I'm not discrediting Deng, or what he does for this team. I love Deng actually.

I'm just saying people getting mad about trading him needs to realize that our defense isn't going to go into the crapper just because we trade him

For starters we have a good defender behind him in Butler, and if moving Deng means Taj gets more minutes, than our defense is actually going to better, not worse.

[tikay0036]

You guys are missing my point.

My point is that if you can replace Deng with a better scorer (number 5 or 8 pick ?) You do it.

I'm not discrediting Deng, or what he does for this team. I love Deng actually.

I'm just saying people getting mad about trading him needs to realize that our defense isn't going to go into the crapper just because we trade him

For starters we have a good defender behind him in Butler, and if moving Deng means Taj gets more minutes, than our defense is actually going to better, not worse.

WTF. Trading deng, pretty much means our defense and offense will drop off considerably for a few years. All we need to do is be patient, and amnesty or trade Boozer when the time is right. We already have the franchise piece, and we have the pieces around him. We just need a few tweaks here and there. I seriously think this team could've taken out Miami, because we wouldnt give up boards like OKC did.

[Mech Engineer]

You guys are missing my point.

My point is that if you can replace Deng with a better scorer (number 5 or 8 pick ?) You do it.

I'm not discrediting Deng, or what he does for this team. I love Deng actually.

I'm just saying people getting mad about trading him needs to realize that our defense isn't going to go into the crapper just because we trade him

For starters we have a good defender behind him in Butler, and if moving Deng means Taj gets more minutes, than our defense is actually going to better, not worse.

Actually, I would be more worried about the offense than defense. For all his defensive acclaim, Deng is a offense first player. The only problem with Deng is his playmaking/ball handling ability. I don't know if the 5th or 8th pick can be good offensively as Deng is when healthy. He makes shots, can slash and knows how to play off the ball(that might take a rookie 4/5 years in the league to learn and excel in the playoffs if they can).

IMO, if the Bulls are getting that elusive 2nd star or a guy who can handle the ball and is 80% of Deng in Deng's strengths...that's ok. Otherwise, it is pointless to get a rookie just based on some draft projections.

[kulaz3000]

You guys are missing my point.

My point is that if you can replace Deng with a better scorer (number 5 or 8 pick ?) You do it.

I'm not discrediting Deng, or what he does for this team. I love Deng actually.

I'm just saying people getting mad about trading him needs to realize that our defense isn't going to go into the crapper just because we trade him

For starters we have a good defender behind him in Butler, and if moving Deng means Taj gets more minutes, than our defense is actually going to better, not worse.

Your 'idea' is fine, but the problem that some have (I'm on the fence with this personally), is that you can't make a statement such as "replacing Deng with a better scorer (draft pick 5 or 8), because you can't simply project a rookie to suddenly replace the production of a fringe all-star player, even if you say replace his scoring.

It's not easy to find rookies who can just come in and score points, and then also expect them to play strong defense. It's difficult to find that with a no.1 pick in most draft classes, let alone further along down the lottery. Not saying it can not happen, just saying, you're taking a gamble. A gamble such as this, if it were to be made, you'd hope Gar and the rest of the scouting crew have done their homework, because losing a player such as Deng and not getting close to the same production could set our team back more than 1-2 years, and then to try and trade for that player, draft or sign one through free agency, you're playing against the odds again.

[Benedict Miller]

how can we get Josh Smith in Chicago?

[Helix]

You guys are missing my point.

My point is that if you can replace Deng with a better scorer (number 5 or 8 pick ?) You do it.

I'm not discrediting Deng, or what he does for this team. I love Deng actually.

I'm just saying people getting mad about trading him needs to realize that our defense isn't going to go into the crapper just because we trade him

For starters we have a good defender behind him in Butler, and if moving Deng means Taj gets more minutes, than our defense is actually going to better, not worse.

The problem with that is that you never know what the pick will really give you. The entire draft is really a lottery... kinda. You never know what you get until 2-4 years after the draft.

About our defense after Deng, just because Taj is a great defender doesn't mean that his added minutes will make the defense better, if you are losing Deng's defensive contributions. Also, like others have mentioned already, more minutes equals more chance to get into foul trouble. Then what happens when Taj has to sit more than you would expect? Then the defense with a lesser defensive presence at SF gets hit.

Also, I am a huge Butler fan and he is not ready for Deng level minutes yet. Move him into Brewers role this season, then decide whether you want to move forward with him as a potential starter.

[thedarkstark]

You guys are missing my point.

My point is that if you can replace Deng with a better scorer (number 5 or 8 pick ?) You do it.

I'm not discrediting Deng, or what he does for this team. I love Deng actually.

I'm just saying people getting mad about trading him needs to realize that our defense isn't going to go into the crapper just because we trade him

For starters we have a good defender behind him in Butler, and if moving Deng means Taj gets more minutes, than our defense is actually going to better, not worse.

WTF. Trading deng, pretty much means our defense and offense will drop off considerably for a few years. All we need to do is be patient, and amnesty or trade Boozer when the time is right. We already have the franchise piece, and we have the pieces around him. We just need a few tweaks here and there. I seriously think this team could've taken out Miami, because we wouldnt give up boards like OKC did.

"This team" as in the team with only 7 players under contract? Because that's all that is left. Korver, Brewer, Watson, and JLIII aren't coming back.

Do you still think we have "enough" ?

Bulls have to make some moves to cut salary somewhere, whether it be moving Deng, or not resigning Taj/Asik, or Amnestying Boozer (which we all know they won't do).

[thedarkstark]

You guys are missing my point.

My point is that if you can replace Deng with a better scorer (number 5 or 8 pick ?) You do it.

I'm not discrediting Deng, or what he does for this team. I love Deng actually.

I'm just saying people getting mad about trading him needs to realize that our defense isn't going to go into the crapper just because we trade him

For starters we have a good defender behind him in Butler, and if moving Deng means Taj gets more minutes, than our defense is actually going to better, not worse.

Your 'idea' is fine, but the problem that some have (I'm on the fence with this personally), is that you can't make a statement such as "replacing Deng with a better scorer (draft pick 5 or 8), because you can't simply project a rookie to suddenly replace the production of a fringe all-star player, even if you say replace his scoring.

I understand that, and I'm agreed that we can't just count on said draft pick to come in and even match Deng's production, let alone surpass it.

But the bottom line is that the Bulls have to cut payroll somewhere, that's just a fact.

You pretty much have to trade Deng or Noah for a draft pick, or Amnesty Boozer, or let Taj/Asik walk.

That's pretty much all there is to it. And I know Jerry isn't going to pay Boozer to not player here.

[GloriaJames]

how can we get Josh Smith in Chicago?

Why would we want that dummy?

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Although I want Deng traded, I think that it's unfair to criticize him for not being able to shut Lebron down. Hell, nobody in the NBA is capable of shutting him down.

My biggest reason for wanting him traded is that we can't win a title with him, IMHO. He transformed me into a fan, but not enough of a fan to overlook his game. He's great as a #3 or #4 option, but the Bulls need him to be more. I believe that the only way to get a #2 option on this team is to sell high & hope that either a high draft pick pans out for us, or create available money for a FA.. Right now, Deng's our most valuable asset behind Rose & Noah.

[AAU Teammate]

Although I want Deng traded, I think that it's unfair to criticize him for not being able to shut Lebron down. Hell, nobody in the NBA is capable of shutting him down.

My biggest reason for wanting him traded is that we can't win a title with him, IMHO. He transformed me into a fan, but not enough of a fan to overlook his game. He's great as a #3 or #4 option, but the Bulls need him to be more. I believe that the only way to get a #2 option on this team is to sell high & hope that either a high draft pick pans out for us, or create available money for a FA.. Right now, Deng's our most valuable asset behind Rose & Noah.

Question for BIGGIEsmalls - based on everything you're saying, how good would our team defense be with Deng no longer in there?

If I understand your post right, you're claiming he's not good enough on offense. But for a guy on the All-Defense team, doesn't he actually do a lot for our offense? He does so many different things in addition to elite defense. It's why I don't understand huge criticism of Deng.

"He's overpaid, he should be a great ballhandler." If he was a great ballhandler, then he'd be Paul Pierce and he'd be paid $17M a year.

[Vicino]

I don't care what the Bulls told him or his agent, Deng is gone.

If you think about it, the front office doesn't really have any other plausible options. They've made it clear they want Asik and Taj long-term. With only 7 players under contract, somethings gotta give. No way they amnesty Boozer, the only other option is trading Jo but I strongly doubt that happening. He's on a reasonable deal for his position, and good centers are VERY hard to come by.

For those of you that are sad, get happy!

As constructed, this team has no chance in hell to get past Miami - But if we roll the dice and hope our lottery pick turns into an absolute stud, then we at least have a chance to have something special, and if the pick underwhelms at least we cleared cap room to retain the heart of our bench or replace them with more than Vet-Minimum scrubs.

There really are no arguments supporting the notion that we shouldn't and won't ship Deng out of town...

[JayT44]

Can anyone give an update on any rumors from today, if there were any? Just got off of work and don't want to read through 15 pages just for one Ralph/boogy tidbit.