Wendell Carter Jr - The Block Panther Edition

[Red Larrivee]

Why would you want the Bulls to give up their draft pick next season?

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[BR0D1E86]

The worst part of the narrative that Carter can't stay on the floor is who we're comparing him against. People are talking as if Draymond Green is now the norm, not the outlier he is. He is what he is because he's unique. The league isn't filled with many mobile centers who can stay on the floor who team's downsize. So unless every team benches their big, it's not an issue.

What modern bigs need to have, at a minimum, is a jump shot and a multi-faceted ability on offense. Carter does all of this. And yes, his defense in space is a question, but that is so for virtually every big in the league.

Basically, I see this as people complaining about a problem without offering a solution. And when they do provide a solution, that one is equally as flawed, perhaps even more so.

I don't know how I've all of a sudden become a Bulls apologist, but I'm very happy with this pick and think people are following the 'small ball' narrative a little too far.

The solution was to trade up for JJJ, who absolutely could stay on the floor with Lauri when other teams go small, because JJJ has unicorn like ability to defend on the perimeter for a big.

And of course the FO defenders can always shoot down any proposed trade idea by saying that “there’s no evidence” that the proposed trade would have worked. Of course there isn’t, because we aren’t in the trade negotiations.

But we do know that MEM wanted to dump Parsons’ contract, that they liked WCJ, and that we had the cap space to make a trade happen. We also know that the Bulls tend to overvalue their own assets (eg Portis) and that they inexplicably gave a promise at 22 which took that pick off the table as a trade asset.

And of course we know that Cuban found a way to trade up for Doncic.

So forgive me, but I do think that there was a better option - an incredibly great option actually - and I do fault the Bulls FO for not getting it done.


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And sure enough, it came out that the Bulls didn't want to give up a future first, nor did they want to take on salary. They wanted to get a deal done with hopes and dreams.

They didn’t want to give up 7,22, a future first and pay 50 million dollars to move up three spots and take Bamba, whose entire promise as a productive player is the very definition of hopes and dreams. He might be the most overhyped prospect in the last decade.

I was more than fine with not trading up for him.

[nitetrain8603]

The solution was to trade up for JJJ, who absolutely could stay on the floor with Lauri when other teams go small, because JJJ has unicorn like ability to defend on the perimeter for a big.

And of course the FO defenders can always shoot down any proposed trade idea by saying that “there’s no evidence” that the proposed trade would have worked. Of course there isn’t, because we aren’t in the trade negotiations.

But we do know that MEM wanted to dump Parsons’ contract, that they liked WCJ, and that we had the cap space to make a trade happen. We also know that the Bulls tend to overvalue their own assets (eg Portis) and that they inexplicably gave a promise at 22 which took that pick off the table as a trade asset.

And of course we know that Cuban found a way to trade up for Doncic.

So forgive me, but I do think that there was a better option - an incredibly great option actually - and I do fault the Bulls FO for not getting it done.


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And sure enough, it came out that the Bulls didn't want to give up a future first, nor did they want to take on salary. They wanted to get a deal done with hopes and dreams.

They didn’t want to give up 7,22, a future first and pay 50 million dollars to move up three spots and take Bamba, whose entire promise as a productive player is the very definition of hopes and dreams. He might be the most overhyped prospect in the last decade.

I was more than fine with not trading up for him.

I'm not a Bamba fan. But if he's your guy, then you give up the 50 million pretty easily. Or you give up the additional first pretty easily. My thing has been, Bulls aren't willing to pay the price to get a guy they truly want. They had two, Bagley Jr and JJJ I'm not a fan of JJJ either, but if he's your guy, then go get him.

This FO/Ownership is not willing to do that, ever.

[tunit213]

I was watching NBA TV last night. They asked which rookie will make the biggest impact. They said Wendell Carter Jr because with our nice young core he will help them fight for a playoff spot.

[Indomitable]

And sure enough, it came out that the Bulls didn't want to give up a future first, nor did they want to take on salary. They wanted to get a deal done with hopes and dreams.

They didn’t want to give up 7,22, a future first and pay 50 million dollars to move up three spots and take Bamba, whose entire promise as a productive player is the very definition of hopes and dreams. He might be the most overhyped prospect in the last decade.

I was more than fine with not trading up for him.

I'm not a Bamba fan. But if he's your guy, then you give up the 50 million pretty easily. Or you give up the additional first pretty easily. My thing has been, Bulls aren't willing to pay the price to get a guy they truly want. They had two, Bagley Jr and JJJ I'm not a fan of JJJ either, but if he's your guy, then go get him.

This FO/Ownership is not willing to do that, ever.

He was,not their guy. MO bama has the greatest pr.

[Lauri_Legend]

If Taj Gibson was offensively gifted like Carter and had a jumpshot, we would have beaten the Heat in the 2011 playoffs. The Heat made a habit of doubling off Taj the whole series but he could never do anything about it. Our 4th quarter line-up was Rose, Korver, Noah, Deng and Taj. They could never double off Noah because they were afraid of his ability on the offensive board. I am still pissed for that.

Well, like I said, Gibson at age 29. Which was 2014-2015 season...not 2011. Gibson was a late bloomer..but also his growth was stunted with the back-to-back additions of Boozer and Gasol

But if you believe that about carter shouldn’t you be happy. The kid is 19 yet could already be as polished as Taj at his peak. I don’t think Wendell gets a lot of mention of his upside but he’s even younger than Lauri so he has time to grow.

Well, like i said in my original comment, I'm just making an observation. It doesn't bother me at all. It actually excites me.

[Hangtime84]

Not sure if someone already posted this or not...but Gary Trent Jr., who played alongside of Carter Jr. in college, is very high on the kid.

``Wendell is a really talented player,’’ Trent Jr. said. ``If Marvin (Bagley III) wasn’t at Duke, Wendell would be in the conversation to be the No. 1 pick. He’s just that talented. He can finish with his left or right hand, he can bring you out to the mid-range and face you up or shoot the three. On the defensive end, he’s exceptional, as well. He’s a great talent and I think more and more teams will see that as he works out with them.’’

https://www.nba.com/magic/wendell-carter-jr-one-drafts-most-intriguing-big-men-20180524

Wendell was killing Bagley in practice only he would know

[bearadonisdna]

I once made a poll regarding player archetypes.
Franchise player
Number 1 scorer
3&D
Defensive specialist.

I said before that WCJ had quiet potential to fill all those boxes, figure I restate it now that he is a bulls player

[Peelboy]

And sure enough, it came out that the Bulls didn't want to give up a future first, nor did they want to take on salary. They wanted to get a deal done with hopes and dreams.

They didn’t want to give up 7,22, a future first and pay 50 million dollars to move up three spots and take Bamba, whose entire promise as a productive player is the very definition of hopes and dreams. He might be the most overhyped prospect in the last decade.

I was more than fine with not trading up for him.

I'm not a Bamba fan. But if he's your guy, then you give up the 50 million pretty easily. Or you give up the additional first pretty easily. My thing has been, Bulls aren't willing to pay the price to get a guy they truly want. They had two, Bagley Jr and JJJ I'm not a fan of JJJ either, but if he's your guy, then go get him.

This FO/Ownership is not willing to do that, ever.

I've seen a lot of this, as if it's binary "your guy" v "not your guy." Seems like even if (big if) they liked Bamba (or JJJ), they didn't find the differential significant. That's when it becomes better to draft your 1a and maintain other assets versus cashing in to move from 1a to 1. JJJ may have been the "best fit" next to Lauri but WCJ is a pretty damn excellent fit.

[R3AL1TY]

Another underrated attribute of Carter is the ability to use both hands near the rim.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I once made a poll regarding player archetypes.
Franchise player
Number 1 scorer
3&D
Defensive specialist.

I said before that WCJ had quiet potential to fill all those boxes, figure I restate it now that he is a bulls player

That poll did not make sense just as this comment did not make sense.

[jump]

As I recall, a few years ago the Nets went for "their guys" - a bunch of old dudes from Boston. They gave up future draft choices and ruined their franchise for the next decade. Sometimes, the price is just too high. I'm thrilled to have Wendell in any case.

[Ctownbulls]

The solution was to trade up for JJJ, who absolutely could stay on the floor with Lauri when other teams go small, because JJJ has unicorn like ability to defend on the perimeter for a big.

And of course the FO defenders can always shoot down any proposed trade idea by saying that “there’s no evidence” that the proposed trade would have worked. Of course there isn’t, because we aren’t in the trade negotiations.

But we do know that MEM wanted to dump Parsons’ contract, that they liked WCJ, and that we had the cap space to make a trade happen. We also know that the Bulls tend to overvalue their own assets (eg Portis) and that they inexplicably gave a promise at 22 which took that pick off the table as a trade asset.

And of course we know that Cuban found a way to trade up for Doncic.

So forgive me, but I do think that there was a better option - an incredibly great option actually - and I do fault the Bulls FO for not getting it done.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

And sure enough, it came out that the Bulls didn't want to give up a future first, nor did they want to take on salary. They wanted to get a deal done with hopes and dreams.

They didn’t want to give up 7,22, a future first and pay 50 million dollars to move up three spots and take Bamba, whose entire promise as a productive player is the very definition of hopes and dreams. He might be the most overhyped prospect in the last decade.

I was more than fine with not trading up for him.

I think what people are failing to realize is that they couldn't trade 22 because they promised somebody they'd take them.

[bad knees]

The solution was to trade up for JJJ, who absolutely could stay on the floor with Lauri when other teams go small, because JJJ has unicorn like ability to defend on the perimeter for a big.

And of course the FO defenders can always shoot down any proposed trade idea by saying that “there’s no evidence” that the proposed trade would have worked. Of course there isn’t, because we aren’t in the trade negotiations.

But we do know that MEM wanted to dump Parsons’ contract, that they liked WCJ, and that we had the cap space to make a trade happen. We also know that the Bulls tend to overvalue their own assets (eg Portis) and that they inexplicably gave a promise at 22 which took that pick off the table as a trade asset.

And of course we know that Cuban found a way to trade up for Doncic.

So forgive me, but I do think that there was a better option - an incredibly great option actually - and I do fault the Bulls FO for not getting it done.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

And sure enough, it came out that the Bulls didn't want to give up a future first, nor did they want to take on salary. They wanted to get a deal done with hopes and dreams.

They didn’t want to give up 7,22, a future first and pay 50 million dollars to move up three spots and take Bamba, whose entire promise as a productive player is the very definition of hopes and dreams. He might be the most overhyped prospect in the last decade.

I was more than fine with not trading up for him.

Please provide a source to support your contention that MEM was demanding 7, 22, a future first, and taking on Parsons’ contract. I have seen nothing to support it. And given that ATL only a demanded a future first in the trade for Doncic, it seems highly unlikely that MEM would or could demand so much.


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[Lauri_Legend]

At 4 your only real choice was Bamba and JJJ. Before the season even starts, giving up WCJ and Hutchinson to take JJJ and Parson's deal sounds like loss for us. Glad we stood pat

[bad knees]

At 4 your only real choice was Bamba and JJJ. Before the season even starts, giving up WCJ and Hutchinson to take JJJ and Parson's deal sounds like loss for us. Glad we stood pat

Again, as far as I can tell, this is mythology. I’ve read all I can find on this issue. And nowhere have I seen that MEM was demanding both 22 and taking on Parsons’ contract. Maybe I missed something. Care to educate me?


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[BR0D1E86]

And sure enough, it came out that the Bulls didn't want to give up a future first, nor did they want to take on salary. They wanted to get a deal done with hopes and dreams.

They didn’t want to give up 7,22, a future first and pay 50 million dollars to move up three spots and take Bamba, whose entire promise as a productive player is the very definition of hopes and dreams. He might be the most overhyped prospect in the last decade.

I was more than fine with not trading up for him.

Please provide a source to support your contention that MEM was demanding 7, 22, a future first, and taking on Parsons’ contract. I have seen nothing to support it. And given that ATL only a demanded a future first in the trade for Doncic, it seems highly unlikely that MEM would or could demand so much.


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Source? There’s no way to know for sure. It’s been reported forever the Grizzlies would move down at the price of Parsons, and Pax vaguely referenced future draft capital as a reason they didn’t trade up. Just putting the pieces together. And the fact that 3 for 5 and a future 1st happened and the Bulls has discussions to move up but reportedly never got close could jive with Memphis wanting way more for their trade.

But yeah, you’re right, I don’t have a recording of their draft discussions.

Edit: and to throw this out there, I don’t see much evidence of any kind that either JJJ or Bamba are better basketball players than Carter. Never have.

[jump]

Agreed. What difference does it make now? The choice is made. Wendell looks like an outstanding prospect. Let's enjoy seeing him become a star.

[waffle]

I remember someone trustworthy saying that future picks were involved and you better your sweet *** they weren't 2nd rounders.

[bad knees]

They didn’t want to give up 7,22, a future first and pay 50 million dollars to move up three spots and take Bamba, whose entire promise as a productive player is the very definition of hopes and dreams. He might be the most overhyped prospect in the last decade.

I was more than fine with not trading up for him.

Please provide a source to support your contention that MEM was demanding 7, 22, a future first, and taking on Parsons’ contract. I have seen nothing to support it. And given that ATL only a demanded a future first in the trade for Doncic, it seems highly unlikely that MEM would or could demand so much.


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Source? There’s no way to know for sure. It’s been reported forever the Grizzlies would move down at the price of Parsons, and Pax vaguely referenced future draft capital as a reason they didn’t trade up. Just putting the pieces together. And the fact that 3 for 5 and a future 1st happened and the Bulls has discussions to move up but reportedly never got close could jive with Memphis wanting way more for their trade.

But yeah, you’re right, I don’t have a recording of their draft discussions.

Edit: and to throw this out there, I don’t see much evidence of any kind that either JJJ or Bamba are better basketball players than Carter. Never have.

Well, the way you wrote your post suggested that at the least some reporter had said that MEM was demanding all that. Really, the only source that we have that was definitive about what MEM was seeking was Sam Smith, who wrote in his post draft article that all MEM sought was someone to take on Parsons’ contract. That’s also the fairest reading of KC’s post draft article. The issue was not addressed with any precision at all in the post draft press conference.

Look, I like WCJ a lot. If we did not have Lauri, and we were looking for one young big to build a team around, WCJ would have my wholehearted support. But the Bulls and this board assume that Lauri is the cornerstone going forward. So he is going nowhere. And I believe that, given this assumption, JJJ is by a significant margin the better fit and taking on Parsons’ contract would have been a small price to pay to get a pair of bigs who could clearly excel as a duo against whatever the other team put out there.

But enough. Let’s hope WCJ and Lauri really can play together under all circumstances, even when other teams go small. If they can, the Bulls will have a bright future because Wendell already is a good high low passer, and already has a post game that will abuse any small guy who tries to cover him.


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